NSA-Proof Phone That Can't Be Hacked?

You know, just owning one of these phones will probably get you on the NSA watch list. Well, if you aren't already on it.

Dubbed the Blackphone, its sleek all-black case and touchscreen makes it look like it fell out of the pocket of James Bond’s blazer. The Android-based device uses an operating system named PrivatOS that promises highly secure privacy protection that would make the NSA wince. The yet-to-be-priced phone can transfer encrypted files and features a video chat option.

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Maybe the phone itself...but the networks it interfaces with sure as hell are.

Skripka said:

Maybe the phone itself...but the networks it interfaces with sure as hell are.

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If it encrypts point to point that is moot. Well until some idiot thinks that the magic applies to anyone they use the phone with rather than other users of the same type of device.

^ Skripka

And

... that promises highly secure privacy protection that would make the NSA wince.

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In the old days the Military, through DARPA and others like JPL, developed almost everything themselves, nothing was commercial or "off-the-shelf", and thus it was always expensive and always custom. And any of the other big players out there did it the same way, all the world's best military tech was developed in-house. Today, not so much, but does anyone really think that 60 year old tech organizations have forgotten how to beat stuff like this? These are the same guys who used to fly airplanes packed with electronic intercept equipment and operators across the border into Soviet Airspace just to get them to turn on their toys so we could collect their signals and then bug back out across the border before they could be shot down, they hoped.

The BlackPhone guys are dreaming if they really believe they can't be hacked.

raz-0 said:

If it encrypts point to point that is moot. Well until some idiot thinks that the magic applies to anyone they use the phone with rather than other users of the same type of device.

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Unless the encryption it uses is broken...which odds are high it is. Just like how RSA room a cash check for using a broken random number generator.

It's one of those good feel advertisements. They don't know if the nsa can't hack it, hell they probably aren't trying that hard either, but because they said so it will drive sales.

I'm sure the NSA can crack any encryption that is currently widespread enough for them to want to know how to crack it. They probably laugh every time the word encryption is used as an anti NSA thing because it probably takes less than an hour for them to crack any of it.

From one of the comments on the video.

"The first part of the video is a theft from Rob Chiu's Series for Else Mobile.."

Else Mobile: http://vimeo.com/7701822

The sad part is they copy the video down to the monologue, 'technology was supposed to help us, but instead it's enslaved us'.

Until this company sells a backdoor to the NSA for $10millions
Cryptophone or redphone could also be "safe"...

Would we put it past our own government to pass a law that forbids heavy encryption for all forms of telecommunications if phone companies and phone manufacturers start making them commonplace?

NSA rookie: "Oh, we can crack it, all we have to do is buy two of them and reverse engineer."
NSA veteran: "Shut up newbie! Don't you know a honeypot when you see it? We engineered the whole thing ourselves."

Black color scheme makes it secrety

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:^)

Any Android ASOP or CyanogenMod rom will basically give you equally as much protection, simply because you can look a the code itself. The phone itself would be the least of the problems. It's the network that's the weak link.

octoberasian said:

Would we put it past our own government to pass a law that forbids heavy encryption for all forms of telecommunications if phone companies and phone manufacturers start making them commonplace?

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You realise that GSM and CDMA cellular data is encrypted OTA right? Guess how little the NSA cares that it is? Like the Maginot line in WW2, build a seemingly impregnable wall and they'll drive right around it.

octoberasian said:

Would we put it past our own government to pass a law that forbids heavy encryption for all forms of telecommunications if phone companies and phone manufacturers start making them commonplace?

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Would not surprise me one bit and it will actually surprise me if we don't hear of regulations coming out on encryption at some point. Basically only specific types and strengths will be allowed, anything more will require some kind of special license or something, that only megacorps will have access to due to cost. I can easily see it happen and I'm actually surprised it has not already happened. Perhaps because there is no encryption they can't crack yet.

Ashbringer said:

Any Android ASOP or CyanogenMod rom will basically give you equally as much protection, simply because you can look a the code itself. The phone itself would be the least of the problems. It's the network that's the weak link.

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What about pure android, is that considered safe, is the code actually available and viewable by the general public? Being a Google product I always wonder what kind of stuff it could be tracking.

Only the services are closed as far as I know.

Skripka said:

You realise that GSM and CDMA cellular data is encrypted OTA right? Guess how little the NSA cares that it is? Like the Maginot line in WW2, build a seemingly impregnable wall and they'll drive right around it.

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I know there is already encyption for GSM and CDMA, but if a cellular phone company like Apple, for example, releases a phone that's fully encrypted and cannot be eaves dropped or hacked into, would the government start asking companies to stop with the heavy encryption methods, especially from ISPs and telecommunications companies?

That's what I'm asking.

If companies start doing stronger encryption to stall an agency like the NSA to stop them from eavesdropping and spying the private calls of customers, would our government specifically make laws prohibiting such heavy encryption?

There is already a law that prohibits the exportation of 128-bit encrypted software and devices to countries on our do-not-trade or anti-export list (whatever it is called). If a company comes out with a 512-bit super encryption to prevent government spying, that might piss off the government intelligence community.

Doesn't Chameleon OS already do the same and is based off of aosp Android?

such claims are especially suspicious. that phone is probably riddled with backdoors

Red Squirrel said:

What about pure android, is that considered safe, is the code actually available and viewable by the general public? Being a Google product I always wonder what kind of stuff it could be tracking.

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If there was something, then it's there to be found. Can't say the same thing about Google software though. Most Android phones have a significant amount of modifications that it's not safe over pure Android. As far as I know, no phone manufacturer releases their source code.

Skripka said:

You realise that GSM and CDMA cellular data is encrypted OTA right? Guess how little the NSA cares that it is? Like the Maginot line in WW2, build a seemingly impregnable wall and they'll drive right around it.

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Very poorly encrypted at the request of the US intelligence industry. The original standard was a true 128 bit encryption scheme. The dumbed down standard they started using instead is at best 56 bit and in reality lower because it has several leading zero's.

By octoberasian;
Would we put it past our own government to pass a law that forbids heavy encryption for all forms of telecommunications if phone companies and phone manufacturers start making them commonplace?

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You mean, the same government that passed amendments to the FISA Act of 1978 where the amendments say these kinds of things?

Under subsection 702(b) of the FISA Amendments Act, such an acquisition is also subject to several limitations. Specifically, an acquisition:

May not intentionally target any person known at the time of acquisition to be located in the United States;
May not intentionally target a person reasonably believed to be located outside the United States if the purpose of such acquisition is to target a particular, known person reasonably believed to be in the United States;
May not intentionally target a U.S. person reasonably believed to be located outside the United States;
May not intentionally acquire any communication as to which the sender and all intended recipients are known at the time of the acquisition to be located in the United States;
Must be conducted in a manner consistent with the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution.[9]

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It won't do a lick of good. I bet you will see owners of this phone still talking into their phone loud enough so you can hear them 50 yards away, while in the checkout at Walmart.

What I don't like is that it's so bad that we have to find and pay for ways to circumvent the "legal" spying done on US citizens.

If I have something to say that I don't want anyone else to hear, I tell it to that person face to face. You can still be heard, but you're taking out some of the middleman (phones, network). Regardless, you still have to say it, so you can still be heard. That part isn't going away anytime soon.

So the components, and communications aren't compromised?

Spy proof is just a dream in this day and age.

NSA proof phone? I'll make sure I get one for my flight on a Hydrogen filled Zeppelin on my way to a trip on the Iceberg proof ship.

Skripka said:

You realise that GSM and CDMA cellular data is encrypted OTA right? Guess how little the NSA cares that it is? Like the Maginot line in WW2, build a seemingly impregnable wall and they'll drive right around it.

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do you realize how weak those encryption schemes are? also, none of that is end-to-end encryption, which is what this new phone supposedly uses. past thinking has been that the only network segment vulnerable is the wireless link between phone and tower; once it gets into the company's' internal network, its "safe". there also isn't a standard protocol for end-to-end encryption common to most phone hardware, which is why its almost completely unheard of now.

current encryption schemes are normally like this (if encrypted at all):

phone and cell tower exchange encryption keys. data from phone is encrypted, sent to the tower, and decrypted in order for the tower to process clear text commands; (sometimes) the tower then re-encrypts the data, usually with the phone companies internal encryption keys (so they dont have to keep transmitting every individual users keys with each users message (or else, the data is transmitted clear text on the internal network; remember this segment is supposedly "safe", as its not OTA); only one single key is used for all data); then basically the reverse process on the receiving end.

however, the internal company networks and encryption endpoints are what are specifically being targeted by the NSA. they are playing off the weakness of GSM and CDMA, because the messages are decrypted several times in the message chain. each point is a place to possibly steal the message. the only safeguard to this is strong end-to-end encryption where only the users phone and the receiving phone have the keys.

If companies start doing stronger encryption to stall an agency like the NSA to stop them from eavesdropping and spying the private calls of customers, would our government specifically make laws prohibiting such heavy encryption?

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congress has the power to do a great lot of things. the supreme court recently gave them the power to, theoretically, require people to purchase Ford cars if deemed a national interest in doing so, or else face a penalty. we have precedent of such a thing being classified a "national interest", and the reasons why it would be nationally important to save Ford, from the auto bailout.

congress could mandate, as they have tried to do before (google clipper chip), that all encryption products must contain a govt backdoor, or say "you are not allowed to offer X-product with stronger than X-security...".

at which point its up to the people to vote congress out of office.

then you get into gerrymandering and lobbyists, and other reasons why thats almost impossible to do... theres always canada.

When I was working in Iraq I knew my Sprint phone was not going to work so it went into a bag waiting for the day I would leave and need it again. I went and bought this cheap POS bar phone, and soon after replaced it with a Moto-Razer. These were GSM phones with SIM cards just like in the old days.

The job had me flying around by helicopter from base to base alot and sometime I had to buy more then one SIM and get accounts with other carriers, it was pretty ghetto cowboy but it got the job done.

In my case, just on the strength of information they might have had, every time I called home to talk with my wife I would think my call looked like a foreign call made to a US Person and I am pretty sure all my calls were intercepted. Now if they actually listened to any content and figured out I was an American, well then they had to stop collecting on me and I believe they would, or did.

But anyway, the world is still full of networks like these run on last decade's tech and fully vulnerable to interception. I am very glad for this. I am perfectly happy to be a citizen of a country that is one of the world's winners because it really sucks for the peeps at the bottom. So it has always been, so it may remain forever.

It's always good to keep in mind that they only way to change the dog-eat-dog nature of the world is to submit the whole damn show to a common world government. I don't know about you guys, but I haven't seen any one government so great that I would subject the entire world to it's loving embrace.

Just sayin.

lcpiper said:

I am perfectly happy to be a citizen of a country that is one of the world's winners because it really sucks for the peeps at the bottom. So it has always been, so it may remain forever.

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Yeah, we should overthrow more foreign governments, enforce more sanctions, and bomb more innocent women and children (in unjust battles/wars) so we have more advantage over the entire world. Keep the scales tipped with forced democracy. Sounds like good people to me.

It's always good to keep in mind that they only way to change the dog-eat-dog nature of the world is to submit the whole damn show to a common world government.

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Or the most powerful nations actually lead by example and not just rape and pillage the lands of the less unfortunate. Leading by example works a hell of a lot better than by force but by force allows you to steal what you want.

I don't know about you guys, but I haven't seen any one government so great that I would subject the entire world to it's loving embrace.

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Because only crazy people want to run the world to being with.

Just sayin.

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The same shit everyday.

Abditive, I'll give you the overthrowing governments point and only offer that it's a long road to get from horrible to perfection.

Sanctions, who cares, that's nothing more then saying we won't sell you shit, getting others to agree and not sell you shit, and in the most extreme cases, blockading you so no one can sell you shit.

Don't even try to play the bomb innocent women and children card cause you know damn well it's bullshit. War is war, it's terrible and the people we are hunting know they are being hunted and that if they don't want something bad to happen to people they love then they sure as hell should stay away from the people they love. Instead they hide right next to them and other innocents because they want us to either not attack them or to kill a few so they can claim we are heartless bastards who murder innocents. You can't put all that blame entirely on us.

(in unjust battles/wars)

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BTW, just how many wars are we going to go back and cover with this blanket? How many generations of other people's wrongs would you have us carry on our backs?

Leading by example works a hell of a lot better than by force but by force allows you to steal what you want.

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I don't think we steal it, I think we help them produce what they were not producing, sell what they weren't selling, and better themselves however the fuck they want to. Or do you know nothing of the history of the rise of the Mideast oil producing nations?

Quote:
I don't know about you guys, but I haven't seen any one government so great that I would subject the entire world to it's loving embrace.
Because only crazy people want to run the world to being with.

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I think you misunderstand, what I am saying is, I haven't seen a government yet "good enough", not even our own, to entrust it with power over the entire world. Just too many eggs in one basket.

lcpiper

Sanctions, who cares, that's nothing more then saying we won't sell you shit, getting others to agree and not sell you shit, and in the most extreme cases, blockading you so no one can sell you shit.

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Wow, people die ( <-- simply an example) over sanctions but they're not shit to you. Not surprising there. Out of sight out of mind.

Don't even try to play the bomb innocent women and children card cause you know damn well it's bullshit. War is war, it's terrible and the people we are hunting know they are being hunted and that if they don't want something bad to happen to people they love then they sure as hell should stay away from the people they love.

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War is war? LOL. Brainwashed. Most aren't even declared (internationally legal) wars. Also, it's hard to not be around the people they love when you're invading their FUCKING country/homeland. Holy military brainwashing at its best.

Instead they hide right next to them and other innocents because they want us to either not attack them or to kill a few so they can claim we are heartless bastards who murder innocents.

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Yes, families hiding by each others side. How crazy of them to try and protect their family from the invaders....lol.

You can't put all that blame entirely on us.

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I easily can for what's ours to accept, you easily refuse to, confirmation bias.

BTW, just how many wars are we going to go back and cover with this blanket? How many generations of other people's wrongs would you have us carry on our backs?

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However many is necessary to show the reality of it all today, right now. Works the other way around too.

lcpiper said:

I don't think we steal it, I think we help them produce what they were not producing, sell what they weren't selling, and better themselves however the fuck they want to. Or do you know nothing of the history of the rise of the Mideast oil producing nations?

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Yeah, either that or just take it when they don't agree to the terms. By smile and a handshake or by force with a smile. I'm glad you're just glad there's always a smile involved though.

lcpiper said:

I think you misunderstand, what I am saying is, I haven't seen a government yet "good enough", not even our own, to entrust it with power over the entire world. Just too many eggs in one basket.

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I heard you and it's precisely because the evil bastards always step up to the podium. If someone wants that much power, they shouldn't ever get it, period.