Wireless Networks Electricity Grid's Weakest Link

It makes sense that you are only as strong as your weakest link.

However, ECU Security Research Institute director Professor Craig Valli says because the smart grid system relies on inherently insecure wireless networks to transmit information through parts of the system, there are significant vulnerabilities for determined cyber criminals to attack.

Click to expand...

I don't see why we need extensive grid to deliver power, seems like a waste of space and electricity instead of moving power generation closer to the power users.

Including which devices are turned on? How is it any of their business? Whether its my toaster oven using electricity or my Meatstick Powerdrill 9000+ sex toy is irrelevant and I don't need or want that level of information leaving my home.

Ducman69 said:

Including which devices are turned on? How is it any of their business? Whether its my toaster oven using electricity or my Meatstick Powerdrill 9000+ sex toy is irrelevant and I don't need or want that level of information leaving my home.

Click to expand...

It's so in places like CA, they can decide on a "spare the air day" in the middle of summer, that you don't need your A/C, hot tub, pool heater, etc.

I'm not joking, if you allow them to hook up your stuff to the meter, they'll shut it off when they feel like it.

If they had a way to automatically do something for the "spare the air days" in winter, they'd do that to. Instead they just drive around on christmas looking for smoke coming out of chimneys.

Merc1138 said:

It's so in places like CA, they can decide on a "spare the air day" in the middle of summer, that you don't need your A/C, hot tub, pool heater, etc.

I'm not joking, if you allow them to hook up your stuff to the meter, they'll shut it off when they feel like it.

If they had a way to automatically do something for the "spare the air days" in winter, they'd do that to. Instead they just drive around on christmas looking for smoke coming out of chimneys.

Click to expand...

Uh no they won't do that. Now they CAN do that, if you get things that are rated to interact with a smart grid AND you give them permission to do so, but they will not just turn shit off for the purpose of doing so. However if you let them do it you usually get a break on your electrical rates just like many businesses do, some get disgustingly huge rate breaks but if there's any power issues they're the first to get shut off.

Also it's a brown out issue, too much electrical usage not enough electrical generation, not spare the air days. Spare the air days is strictly about larger particulate matter from wood burning.

Semantics said:

I don't see why we need extensive grid to deliver power, seems like a waste of space and electricity instead of moving power generation closer to the power users.

Click to expand...

I don't think Hoover Dam will be moving closer to me anytime soon.

A determined hacker can exploit this or that vulnerability...or, any terrorist or nation wanting to covertly attack the US can send a couple guys with rifles out into the country to take potshots at planes, oil refineries, derail trains, etc for a couple thousand dollars. The country is so rife with soft targets security paranoia on any particular issue is pointless.

sfsuphysics said:

Uh no they won't do that. Now they CAN do that, if you get things that are rated to interact with a smart grid AND you give them permission to do so, but they will not just turn shit off for the purpose of doing so. However if you let them do it you usually get a break on your electrical rates just like many businesses do, some get disgustingly huge rate breaks but if there's any power issues they're the first to get shut off.

Also it's a brown out issue, too much electrical usage not enough electrical generation, not spare the air days. Spare the air days is strictly about larger particulate matter from wood burning.

Click to expand...

You're right, the summer days have a different name(can't remember what they're called off the top of my head, and I don't feel like logging into the PGE website to look right now), but they do have days in the summer, and they WILL shut off your A/C if they determine it's been running too long. My point being that the coldest days out of the year(this year it was 7 days in a row?) they bitch about how you heat your home and drive around writing tickets(although they also have a phone hotline so you can report your neighbors for using their fireplace), they pretty much pull the same crap during the summer except now they can shut people's A/C off.

Merc1138 said:

You're right, the summer days have a different name(can't remember what they're called off the top of my head, and I don't feel like logging into the PGE website to look right now), but they do have days in the summer, and they WILL shut off your A/C if they determine it's been running too long. My point being that the coldest days out of the year(this year it was 7 days in a row?) they bitch about how you heat your home and drive around writing tickets(although they also have a phone hotline so you can report your neighbors for using their fireplace), they pretty much pull the same crap during the summer except now they can shut people's A/C off.

Click to expand...

Are you serious? What do you get a ticket for? WTF is this country becoming, doesn't sound good. Glad I don't live in Cali.

If it gets to the point where they want to monitor on a per device basis and control stuff I will put everything behind a bank of rectifiers and inverters to isolate the loads. None of their business what I'm using power for. All they need to know is how much I use and when so they can charge me appropriately.

We are paying for a service, they need to be able to deliver said service. Simple as that. not tell us that we are using too much. Then we conserve, and they just raise the prices anyway.

Merc1138 said:

You're right, the summer days have a different name(can't remember what they're called off the top of my head, and I don't feel like logging into the PGE website to look right now), but they do have days in the summer, and they WILL shut off your A/C if they determine it's been running too long. My point being that the coldest days out of the year(this year it was 7 days in a row?) they bitch about how you heat your home and drive around writing tickets(although they also have a phone hotline so you can report your neighbors for using their fireplace), they pretty much pull the same crap during the summer except now they can shut people's A/C off.

Click to expand...

Are you serious? What do you get a ticket for? WTF is this country becoming, doesn't sound good. Glad I don't live in Cali.

Merc1138 said:

You're right, the summer days have a different name(can't remember what they're called off the top of my head, and I don't feel like logging into the PGE website to look right now), but they do have days in the summer, and they WILL shut off your A/C if they determine it's been running too long. My point being that the coldest days out of the year(this year it was 7 days in a row?) they bitch about how you heat your home and drive around writing tickets(although they also have a phone hotline so you can report your neighbors for using their fireplace), they pretty much pull the same crap during the summer except now they can shut people's A/C off.

Click to expand...

Wait wait wait, what the fuck?

They will shut off your AC and write tickets if you are using your heat too much?

You can report your neighbors for using a fucking fireplace???

Here in PA my entire home is heated with a fireplace from Oct-March.

Do you live in North Korea?

WinSomeLoseNone said:

They will shut off your AC and write tickets if you are using your heat too much?

Click to expand...

No they won't, the other poster is just spouting nonsense, there is a program that will automatically cycle your AC in smaller bursts rather than continuous use but that is a program that you specifically need to opt in on. You are not forced to use this program at all. And if you decide that you do opt in and then don't want to have the program in place on a particular day (lets say you want to feel particularly frosty) there is a 24 hour phone number you can call to opt out of. Again it's not automatically set up for you.

As to the heating thing, there is no such thing. We have natural gas around here, so that is the preferred heating method. You can heat your house to sauna levels and it's not illegal and you won't get a ticket.

You can report your neighbors for using a fucking fireplace???

Here in PA my entire home is heated with a fireplace from Oct-March.

Do you live in North Korea?

Click to expand...

There are days when you are not allowed to use a fireplace, or burn wood, yes. It's because of the size of the particulate matter that is released into the air which can cause health issues to those who are sensitive if the air movement is particular stagnant. However as mentioned houses in this area typically have natural gas as heating methods in their furnace, if you do not have that as a way to heat your home (or it's broken) you ARE allowed to heat your home via a fireplace.

The huge difference between where you live and where we live, is here most fireplaces are simple the aesthetic kind to "get a pretty fire" such that they are completely useless to warm the house unless you sit right in front (in fact they will cause an overall cooling effect on average) due to the way they work, if you had a fireplace that is made to actually heat the house (wood stove type, or glass front with air blower, etc) then chances are you don't have natural gas to heat your house, and it is no way "illegal".to use on "Spare the Air" days.

.

PA is far colder than the urban areas of California, and mostly does not have nearly the pollution problem. Some of our laws seem Draconian regarding air quality, but if people in the Los Angeles Basin were firing up their fireplaces on the worst days, some people would actually die from breathing problems, and everyone else would be getting hammered in the lungs.

I remember one day I walked home with my groceries after school in a summer session. About a mile and a half, gentle uphill slope. I nearly vomited when I got back because the air was so foul.

sfsuphysics said:

No they won't, the other poster is just spouting nonsense, there is a program that will automatically cycle your AC in smaller bursts rather than continuous use but that is a program that you specifically need to opt in on.

Click to expand...

LOL, that's called turning off your A/C.

Automatically cycle in short bursts, give me a break. If the power company cycled anything else in your home in "short bursts" you'd be pissed about them turning it off.

I'm also not sure how the hell you think the winter spare the air days where you're not allowed to heat your home with a fireplace isn't the same as stating you can't heat your home. That's exactly what it is!

Claiming it's not illegal when you know damn well you get a ticket for it is bullshit. There are plenty of homes in the SF bay area that may indeed have natural gas heaters, and there are plenty of older homes that do not or have a fireplace in addition to such a heater. My parent's house has a couple of natural gas heaters, they're terrible. Guess what we used in the living room? The fireplace.

You must be one of those dirtbag people who does actually use the hotline http://sparetheair.org/Contact-Us.aspx

Well look at that, it's in the 40's right now and the state government has decided you can't heat your home with a fireplace. Give me a damn break.

Oh, BTW, It's a $500 ticket for those wondering. Yes, it's possible to get out of the ticket if a fireplace is the sole source of heat in your home, but that requires fighting the already issued ticket and demanding a home inspection(yay!) to prove your fireplace is the only means of heat. If it just so happens you have a natural gas line that's capped off and unused, they can still decide you owe them $500.

It's absolutely amazing that this sfsuphysics claims that I'm just making things up, then in the next sentence confirms that the power company does turn off A/C's connected to smart meters.

sfsuphysics said:

The huge difference between where you live and where we live

Click to expand...

I won't deny that.

I'm over here heating my house with a wood burner and eating deer I shot on my property. You would probably think I'm some kind of archaic monster from your POV, lol.