Interview With AMD About Mantle And New Radeon Cards

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The folks at Hardware.Info sat down with AMD's Matt Skynner and talked about Mantle and the company's upcoming line of video cards.

Hardware.Info: “Two of the main announcements during the GPU14 are Mantle and TrueAudio. What they have in common is that both technologies are only compatible with specific AMD graphics cards. What impact will this have on the PC ecosystem, which tends to have open standards?”

Skynner: “Mantle is one of the components of the Unified Gaming Strategy we announced earlier this year during GDC. AMD wants to be at the forefront of all forms of gaming: consoles, PC gaming, cloud gaming, and so on. Since the next generation consoles all run on AMD GPUs, GCN (ed: Graphics Core Next) and therefore Mantle are already a standard.
 
BF4 won't even have Mantle support at launch (not available till December). And this is suppose to be an AMD title? :rolleyes: And Mantle is PC only, currently, which is no surprise seeing as consoles are already designed for low-level with XB1 is MS who are going to favor DX and PS4 is their own thing too.

The fact he didn't want to talk performance leads me to believe don't expect wonders.
 
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Sounds like marketing points to me .
IMO it is very much like Glide as it is only running on new AMD hardware as that is what it does on low level .
The thing is when glide was out D3d was, how to put it ,pretty bad was no where able to preform compared to glide .
Many titles back then where either glide only or glide, OpenGL, D3d .

The big thing though I know many will say the developer just needs to add optimized mantle to there game . but todays games are very much more graphic then old ones and much more time and work goes into graphic side of things .

I see only some AAA dev's doing this and even that will take time, which is money .

We will see what happens , maybe Nvidia will re-introduce new glide since they bought out 3dfx :p

Oh, as for his comments on consoles they already do low level as the hardware is fixed so to me Mantle is only PC as not really needed for consoles but i wonder what MS will do with Xbox one as Mantle (if it was used) would be conflict of interest to D3d .
 
BF4 won't even have Mantle support at launch. And this is suppose to be an AMD title? :rolleyes: And Mantle is PC only, currently, which is no surprise seeing as consoles are already designed for low-level with XB1 is MS who are going to favor DX and PS4 is their own thing too.

The fact he didn't want to talk performance leads me to believe don't expect wonders.

Keep in mind -- it's AMD hardware in both machines. GCN architecture at that. No matter what MS and Sony "want" the bottom line is if they want to wring all the performance they can out of the system, they will have to use their varients of Mantle at some point.

I'm not a pro on the topic but everything I've read says that Mantle is a verrrrrrrrry close relative of what will be used on the xbone and PS4.

Free performance boost on my 7970's for doing absolutely nothing? I'll take that! AMD is playing their cards almost perfectly when it comes to doing radical and new things, overall I think it's a good thing.
 
Keep in mind -- it's AMD hardware in both machines. GCN architecture at that. No matter what MS and Sony "want" the bottom line is if they want to wring all the performance they can out of the system, they will have to use their varients of Mantle at some point.

Actually, they don't. MS and Sony have control over their consoles, not AMD. AMD just provides the hardware. So if they don't want to offer support to use Mantle, they don't have to. The fact the AMD guy wouldn't talk about MS and DX tells me the future on XB1 is unsure with Mantle. Sony may be more open.
 
Actually, they don't. MS and Sony have control over their consoles, not AMD. AMD just provides the hardware. So if they don't want to offer support to use Mantle, they don't have to. The fact the AMD guy wouldn't talk about MS and DX tells me the future on XB1 is unsure with Mantle. Sony may be more open.

"Mantle appears to have much in common with the GNM API used in PlayStation 4, offering low-level GPU access while retaining a very high level of compatibility with Microsoft's existing programmable pixel shader language (HLSL). The potential here cannot be under-estimated - much of the optimisation work that is carried out on console versions of multi-platform games can now be rolled out to the PC version too. In addition, there is also the opportunity to exploit AMD-specific hardware features that are under-utilised - or perhaps not even implemented at all - in DirectX. "

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-could-amd-mantle-revolutionise-pc-gaming
 
Actually, they don't. MS and Sony have control over their consoles, not AMD. AMD just provides the hardware. So if they don't want to offer support to use Mantle, they don't have to. The fact the AMD guy wouldn't talk about MS and DX tells me the future on XB1 is unsure with Mantle. Sony may be more open.

"As the supplier of the APUs in both the Xbox One and PS4, AMD is in a very interesting place. Both of these upcoming consoles are based on their GCN technology, and as such AMD owns a great deal of responsibility in developing both of these consoles. This goes not only for their hardware but also portions of their software stack, as it’s AMD that needs to write the drivers and AMD that needs to help develop the APIs these consoles will use, so that the full features of the hardware are made available to developers."

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn
 
That last question puzzled me is this the problem dutchies have when they are asking for a release date when they are themselves under NDA or is it something which was another question but when translating dutch to english the question which was not a question saw the light.

It is also good to know that hardware.info still does not understand things about hardware and software calling the API glide which in itself was not a bad thing was clearly something which they have trouble understanding the bigger issues in software development (on their (monday) video (which is in dutch) they did grasp the concept of it but yet some of the things seems still rather floaty to them).

It is weird when AMD offers a bundle on BF4 and the R9-290X people asking for the release date :) .
 
I can't help but feel that all this AMD specificity in console and PC gaming is going to be detrimental to both NVidia and Valve's new steam-box. Partnering with NVidia might have been Valve's first mistake. It certainly would have made sense 6 months ago, but going forward... not so sure.
 
"Mantle appears to have much in common with the GNM API used in PlayStation 4, offering low-level GPU access while retaining a very high level of compatibility with Microsoft's existing programmable pixel shader language (HLSL). The potential here cannot be under-estimated - much of the optimisation work that is carried out on console versions of multi-platform games can now be rolled out to the PC version too. In addition, there is also the opportunity to exploit AMD-specific hardware features that are under-utilised - or perhaps not even implemented at all - in DirectX. "

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-could-amd-mantle-revolutionise-pc-gaming
This again goes back to proprietary renderers . when glide came out it had fairly good % because D3d was in its infancy but now. there is no way a dev would port mantle only as AMD is small % of market .
Especially now with Intel HD becoming usable and in every CPU . as it is dGPU below 100$ will be poor sales because of iGPU and it will only go up % .

If I had to guess with whats out there now I think only few dev's will even have Mantle port and that only if it is decent bit of an improvement over latest Dx version .
Dev's will have to keep D3d, OpenGL etc or lose big market % .
 
with luck Mantle will be DOA be for AMD starts paying devs for Mantle only games
 
with luck Mantle will be DOA be for AMD starts paying devs for Mantle only games

Yeah when devs ask for tools that allow them to access the videocard directly due to open-gl/directx bottlenecks it will be something if it didn't survive.
 
Yeah when devs ask for tools that allow them to access the videocard directly due to open-gl/directx bottlenecks it will be something if it didn't survive.

ask? they had to pay DICE 8million to get Mantle in BF4 if DICE wanted it so bad they should be paying AMD for help...
 
ask? they had to pay DICE 8million to get Mantle in BF4 if DICE wanted it so bad they should be paying AMD for help...

You're being intellectually dishonest. It's like saying a game runs faster on either AMD or nVidia because the game was designed to do so - no, it's because AMD/nVidia paid the devs for them to design better drivers earlier.

It's called promoting a product.
 
You're being intellectually dishonest. It's like saying a game runs faster on either AMD or nVidia because the game was designed to do so - no, it's because AMD/nVidia paid the devs for them to design better drivers earlier.

It's called promoting a product.

nVidia has yet to make low level graphics API that could lock AMD out of games
and again if the devs wanted this API so much why did AMD have to pay them?
 
with luck Mantle will be DOA be for AMD starts paying devs for Mantle only games

You want it fail?
Because you wouldn't like it if they pursued your scenario?

Personally I like to see new technologies flourish, and become the new standard, benefiting the market.
 
This again goes back to proprietary renderers . when glide came out it had fairly good % because D3d was in its infancy but now. there is no way a dev would port mantle only as AMD is small % of market .
Especially now with Intel HD becoming usable and in every CPU . as it is dGPU below 100$ will be poor sales because of iGPU and it will only go up % .

If I had to guess with whats out there now I think only few dev's will even have Mantle port and that only if it is decent bit of an improvement over latest Dx version .
Dev's will have to keep D3d, OpenGL etc or lose big market % .

I think thats the whole idea. iGPU as you call it are becoming more and more usable for gaming. AMD is rolling out more powerful APU's and Mantle will make more of those APU's usable for gaming.

I see many think of Mantle as a AMD vs. Nvidia highend battle advantage, but if you look at the larger picture, consoles APU have a decent GPU with a not so powerful, but multicore CPU. Mantle could actually become the key component making those laptop APU's, HTPC APU's and entry level desktop APU's into viable gaming devices. Not highend gaming machines, but low powered computers being able to run games somewhat decent.

Microsoft might even want some of that action into their Windows 8 tablet sales ...

Mantle API has a potential to make a lot of computers into gaming devices developers can sell their games to. If you think of Mantle as a potential laptop/tablet/HTPC gaming API, which also boosts games for highend gamers, you can see that this makes sense for developers to consider. :)
 
I can't help but feel that all this AMD specificity in console and PC gaming is going to be detrimental to both NVidia and Valve's new steam-box. Partnering with NVidia might have been Valve's first mistake. It certainly would have made sense 6 months ago, but going forward... not so sure.
AMD's Linux drivers are abhorant. NVIDIA was the obvious choice.
 
You want it fail?
Because you wouldn't like it if they pursued your scenario?

Personally I like to see new technologies flourish, and become the new standard, benefiting the market.

because i like having to own 2 video cards so an play the games i want
how about NO
AMDs end game will be to lock out nvidia Mantle or nothing and dont think it hasnt crossed the minds of the management at AMD
that is the ONLY reason they green lighted this

and you also missed how AMD has now locked them selves in to GCN for the next for ever as well that worked out great for 3Dfx
im going to laugh when NV and Intel get MS to make major change in DX that would break Mantle by forcing AMD to drastically change there GPU
 
because i like having to own 2 video cards so an play the games i want
how about NO
AMDs end game will be to lock out nvidia Mantle or nothing and dont think it hasnt crossed the minds of the management at AMD
that is the ONLY reason they green lighted this

and you also missed how AMD has now locked them selves in to GCN for the next for ever as well that worked out great for 3Dfx
im going to laugh when NV and Intel get MS to make major change in DX that would break Mantle by forcing AMD to drastically change there GPU

LOL. The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling...!

MANTLE is EViL ENd OF DAys STuff! :p
 
ask? they had to pay DICE 8million to get Mantle in BF4 if DICE wanted it so bad they should be paying AMD for help...

Wasn't the 8 million for both partner marketing, and the inclusion of the game with sold cards? (EA isn't going to let a card vendor give away tens of thousands of the game for free)
 
because i like having to own 2 video cards so an play the games i want
how about NO
AMDs end game will be to lock out nvidia Mantle or nothing and dont think it hasnt crossed the minds of the management at AMD
that is the ONLY reason they green lighted this

and you also missed how AMD has now locked them selves in to GCN for the next for ever as well that worked out great for 3Dfx
im going to laugh when NV and Intel get MS to make major change in DX that would break Mantle by forcing AMD to drastically change there GPU

You literally just described new tech being designed to offer what mantle does.
This is ideal, as it pushes the market forward, just like all tech.
 
Wasn't the 8 million for both partner marketing, and the inclusion of the game with sold cards? (EA isn't going to let a card vendor give away tens of thousands of the game for free)

yes it was, guy is just twisting the facts to suit his end of the gaming world narrative.
 
You literally just described new tech being designed to offer what mantle does.
This is ideal, as it pushes the market forward, just like all tech.

how? only if NV and Intel fight it and if they do AMD is DEAD
thats not a good out come ether

there are 3 out comes
1. Mantle is DOA
2. we end up with Mantle and what ever NV comes up with and end up with at lest 2 competing low level APIs
3. NV and intel team up with MS and FUCK AMD out of what little market they have left

only one of these is a good out come
 
I'm sick of your shit Elios...No one will be locked out of any game because of Mantle, it will be a in game option for games that support it.

If you don't have a GCN card you will just use the DX or OpenGL option, even if you have a GCN card you can still use the DX or OpenGL option, just like games that support PhysX can still be played on AMD hardware minus the PhysX option.
 
AMD must be doing something amazing if you see trolls desperately shouting and spamming the same uneducated drivel all over the place. :)

This applies perfectly to them: Those who speak the most have the least to say.
 
I'm sick of your shit Elios...No one will be locked out of any game because of Mantle, it will be a in game option for games that support it.

If you don't have a GCN card you will just use the DX or OpenGL option, even if you have a GCN card you can still use the DX or OpenGL option, just like games that support PhysX can still be played on AMD hardware minus the PhysX option.


Bolding for emphasis.
 
AMD must be doing something amazing if you see trolls desperately shouting and spamming the same uneducated drivel all over the place. :)

This applies perfectly: Those who speak the most have the least to say.

Better to win someone over with your rationale, rather than insulting them I find.
 
I'm sick of your shit Elios...No one will be locked out of any game because of Mantle, it will be a in game option for games that support it.

If you don't have a GCN card you will just use the DX or OpenGL option, even if you have a GCN card you can still use the DX or OpenGL option, just like games that support PhysX can still be played on AMD hardware minus the PhysX option.

if you dont think AMD would do it your nuts more so if you think Mantle is as awesome as AMD says it is and that devs dont wnat to use DX or OGL any more

watch Battlefield 5 NOW ON AMD ONLY!
 
AMD has been talking about the benefits of DTM for a long time. Now they are in a position to push it forward. Either nvidia did not see this coming, or they just did not care. Maybe the mobile market is working out better for them, who knows. They had their chance to bid on the consoles and do the same thing AMD is doing.
If "Mantle" succeeds and this brings more games to PC, then im all for it. If games run better on "Mantle" then bonus for ME :)
 
BF4 won't even have Mantle support at launch (not available till December).
I've also been hearing reports that Mantle won't work with discreet cards initially. The first version will support APUs, later versions will add support for discreet cards.

Not sure how true that will turn out to be, but honestly, it makes sense.
 
if you dont think AMD would do it your nuts more so if you think Mantle is as awesome as AMD says it is and that devs dont wnat to use DX or OGL any more

watch Battlefield 5 NOW ON AMD ONLY!
67.34% of Steam users own a non-AMD card, and an even greater percentage of Steam users own a non-GCN AMD card.

Assuming these figures don't change drastically, the belief that any developer would develop a Mantle-only title is predicated on mental derangement.
 
I'm sick of your shit Elios...No one will be locked out of any game because of Mantle, it will be a in game option for games that support it.

If you don't have a GCN card you will just use the DX or OpenGL option, even if you have a GCN card you can still use the DX or OpenGL option, just like games that support PhysX can still be played on AMD hardware minus the PhysX option.

Bump for truth...some people just want to shit on stuff before giving it a chance.
 
if you dont think AMD would do it your nuts more so if you think Mantle is as awesome as AMD says it is and that devs dont wnat to use DX or OGL any more

watch Battlefield 5 NOW ON AMD ONLY!

AMD has about 10 years to make this work. If they succeed, then PC gamers win. Consoles are the bread and butter of the video game market,
PC needs things like "Mantle" and the APU's it is built around to bring devs are way. Microsoft is pushing games away from PC.
AMD could be our saving grace.
 
if you dont think AMD would do it your nuts more so if you think Mantle is as awesome as AMD says it is and that devs dont wnat to use DX or OGL any more

watch Battlefield 5 NOW ON AMD ONLY!
You think a game developer would knowingly exclude a substantial portion of their market/revenue? I don't.
 
AMD must be doing something amazing if you see trolls desperately shouting and spamming the same uneducated drivel all over the place. :)

This applies perfectly to them: Those who speak the most have the least to say.

Indeed!
 
AMD has about 10 years to make this work. If they succeed, then PC gamers win. Consoles are the bread and butter of the video game market,
PC needs things like "Mantle" and the APU's it is built around to bring devs are way. Microsoft is pushing games away from PC.
AMD could be our saving grace.

or it could be what really kills it
 
if you dont think AMD would do it your nuts more so if you think Mantle is as awesome as AMD says it is and that devs dont wnat to use DX or OGL any more

watch Battlefield 5 NOW ON AMD ONLY!


Unlikely any future game would exclusively use Mantle. I would not be more surprised Linux games would use it more for AMD video cards under Linux over OpenGL.

However, I've mentioned in some old post a few months back but basic economics lessons still apply here. The market dictates the direction and the companies will follow. However, where this is a large market for one product over another, companies will exploit that option to make... wait for it... more money.

At this time, there is more money to be made from video game consoles than computer gaming. And, there is more money to be made from mobile gaming than either of the two. (Just look at how many iOS and Android games offer in-app purchases and cash shops.)

More people would rather buy a video game console than deal with the myriad of confusing choices for gaming PCs. Like I said in another forum post here, consider that the majority of the market is technologically stupid. The normal PC user probably can't tell you the difference between DirectX and OpenGL unless you let them look at WIkipedia before answering. However, they'll tell you how to use Twitter, Facebook and Netflix.

So, video game consoles would be more suited for that type of crowd. And, these consoles are either using DirectX (of some kind) or OpenGL (or something close to it). DirectX is still the API of choice because of the Xbox 360 and soon the Xbox ONE. That and the majority of PCs are Windows and have DirectX included. For Mantle to catch on, it would have to be included on every Windows PC with an AMD video card. Unlikely that will happen. Also, Microsoft has enough weight and money (like Apple) to shift the market in their favor. Every company with money does that.

In other words, it's a popularity contest. Whoever is more popular and more used by the masses will be the more common API to use. The others will be second or third.
Think of DirectX as that sexy cheerleader winning Homecoming Queen and Prom Queen. She's popular, her dad's rich, and she drives a nice car and is friends with all the popular girls on campus. Every girl either envies her or despises her. Yet, she gets her way-- most of the time. Daddy's rich so she knows she can do whatever she wants. And, she's just about been with nearly every jock on campus.

OpenGL is that mousy haired geek with glasses sitting in the library getting 1400 to 1600 on the SAT I test. She gets the As and Bs in class but isn't popular with many of her classmates. Her dad isn't rich and she's open to new ideas and tries to come up with some herself. More brains than beauty in other words, but it doesn't get her the popular guys and she's more well known amongst the Gee Club, Chess Club, and the Computer Science class.

Then, Mantle comes along and she's the new kid in class. The outcast trying to fit in among the Jocks, the Greasers, the Geeks, and the Mean Girls but still trying to find her place among other people. She's into deathmetal, rock and roll, and some weird artsy stuff. She's trying to be unique, or trying too hard to. She's basically misunderstood and she's not doing it to get popular, she's trying to fit in. Or, so I think she is.​
 
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