Selling GTA V To Parents Who Don't Give a Damn Is Wrong

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I'll let you guys decide if this guy has a valid point or should mind his own damn business and just do his job.

Every week, new M-rated games are released. Some are more of an M than others. I have no problem letting my kids watch me play M-rated games like Halo, Skyrim, and Fable. Then there are the games like Duke Nukem, Saints Row, and Grand Theft Auto, which are the very reason I am writing this letter today. Last week my store sold over a thousand copies of GTA V, at least a hundred of which were sold to parents for children who could barely even see over my counter.
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Steve said:
I'll let you guys decide if this guy has a valid point or should mind his own damn business and just do his job.
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i wouldnt let my kids play it unless they were 16 or older probably. but that doesnt mean i would tell other parents what they should do.
 
Wait, people think most parents actually care about their kids these days?
 
I think it's up to the parents. That being said, my kid isn't playing them until he's old enough to go to the shooting range with me.
 
RealityCrunch said:
Stopping one leak in a busted dam ain't gonna do much.
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No, but kudos to the guy for trying. This is where poor parenting gives video games a bad name. Some kids play this game, do something stupid, and then suddenly it's "OMG, GTA5 is the root of all evil!!" No.......poor parenting is the real culprit......

I blatantly told my sister that my nephew was NOT to be near this game (11 years old), and that this was simply not fit for his consumption. She agreed, and this game won't be seen in their house.

It's all about common sense, which we appear to be lacking in droves these days.
 
Every week, new M-rated games are released. Some are more of an M than others.
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And every week, new R-rated movies are released. Some are more an R than others...

Ratings are based as a guideline, it's up to the parents to understand what games they buy their kids and what movies to let them watch. And ultimately it's up to the parents to decide if their kid "who can barely see over the counter" Is adult enough for said game. My cousin is smart enough to monitor his kids gaming, he doesn't care if you kill something "fake looking" (aliens, robots, etc) but if you kill "realistic" stuff he has an issue... that's his choice as a parent, and regardless of what I think, is his decision to make.
 
Megalith said:
Wait, people think most parents actually care about their kids these days?
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Its not that they dont care, its that they are lazy. Holding out on buying something for your kid that they are begging you for constantly and saying/doing anything to break you. Parents just give in.
 
BBA said:
I think it's up to the parents. That being said, my kid isn't playing them until he's old enough to go to the shooting range with me.
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Depending on where you are (in the USA even) that can be pretty damn young. I learned to shoot when I was 6 - at a range.

I think the "mind your own business" mantra should apply here, but I am also conflicted the children of these idiots are going to be part of the same society that I live in, and my children live in.

If the idiot parents want to let society raise their children, then I'm going to point out stupid when I see it with hopes of making a better tomorrow.
 
I don't want to crap on this guy but his job is to inform his customers, not judge them...or worse...make baseless assumptions about them. For all the guy behind the counter knows, the person is buying it for THEMSELVES...not the minor child they are carting around with them.

All the guy needs to do is his job: Check ID, inform the customer that "M" stands for mature and why it is rated that way. If this is too hard, or contrary to his morals, he probably needs to find a different job.

I don't know how many times I've gotten "attitude" from these guys when I've bought mature rated games when I had my son or daughter with me (when they were under age). I shouldn't have to hire a babysitter to pick up my copy of Virtual Murder Simulator VII because the guy behind the counter is going to make all kinds of baseless assumptions about me and my parental skills.

On a side note, how the hell does anyone work the counter at a video game store for almost a decade?
 
I don't really see the point in sheltering kids like this. At some point they're going to be exposed to this kind of content anyway. I grew up watching violent action movies and playing violent video games and I turned out fine.
 
The argument that violent media creates violent individuals looses all merit when you ask about any violence prior to said media being created.

Poor parenting has been around since humans have though....
 
Guy's an idiot. Basically making baseless assumptions and judging people on how they raise their kids. And a prime target for the "think of the children" and "video games killed my grandma" crowd.
 
Cmdrmonkey said:
I don't really see the point in sheltering kids like this. At some point they're going to be exposed to this kind of content anyway. I grew up watching violent action movies and playing violent video games and I turned out fine.
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"Sheltering" is a loaded term. Parents have a responsibility to their kids, and that responsibility includes evaluating what types of media they can handle alone, with parental supervision, or not at all.

As for the register monkey, I don't care what he thinks about anything. If he wants to do social work, he should absolutely do that. Otherwise, it's none of his goddamn business.
 
I hear people complain about kids being bad.

Then they complain about their parents being bad parents.

Then when someone tries to say something it's always, "hey it's there choice!"

You can't have it both ways!

We should be speaking up when we someone doing something wrong, it's what makes us a civil society.
 
mavrocket said:
I hear people complain about kids being bad.

Then they complain about their parents being bad parents.

Then when someone tries to say something it's always, "hey it's there choice!"

You can't have it both ways!

We should be speaking up when we someone doing something wrong, it's what makes us a civil society.
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Read the article. At one point he implies that a parent is bad who says s/he is buying an M-rated game for an older child while accompanied by a younger child - I don't know if he's assuming the parent is lying or if he thinks that GTA is unsuitable for any kid; either way, it's not his place to judge a situation to which he is exposed for, what, a minute? Two?

Unless you're asserting that allowing a child to play GTA (or similar) is always wrong, and so wrong that strangers at cash registers should intervene, your point isn't applicable to this article/situation.

As far as people complaining about kids being "bad," that complaint has existed since just about forever. Sometimes the kids are truly "bad" and sometimes they're just being kids. Either way, intervention is only called for when something "bad" actually happens; prior to that, as a society, we have to trust parents because we can't police them 24/7.

If you see a kid being abused, you should absolutely intervene. If you see a 10-year-old playing an M-rated game on a handheld console, you should mind your own damn business.
 
Babbster said:
Read the article. At one point he implies that a parent is bad who says s/he is buying an M-rated game for an older child while accompanied by a younger child - I don't know if he's assuming the parent is lying or if he thinks that GTA is unsuitable for any kid; either way, it's not his place to judge a situation to which he is exposed for, what, a minute? Two?

Unless you're asserting that allowing a child to play GTA (or similar) is always wrong, and so wrong that strangers at cash registers should intervene, your point isn't applicable to this article/situation.

As far as people complaining about kids being "bad," that complaint has existed since just about forever. Sometimes the kids are truly "bad" and sometimes they're just being kids. Either way, intervention is only called for when something "bad" actually happens; prior to that, as a society, we have to trust parents because we can't police them 24/7.

If you see a kid being abused, you should absolutely intervene. If you see a 10-year-old playing an M-rated game on a handheld console, you should mind your own damn business.
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True. +1 to mind your own business. The parents won't give a damn about the situation anyways and will continue to be bad parents even if you say something. Sucks to be the kid of stupid-ass parents.
 
I think it's good that this one clerk is at least trying to educate the parents. That's more service, and that's a good thing.

But obviously if the parent says "Okay, thanks, I'm buying it anyway." you sell it.
 
As much as I hate gamestop for their dick-baggery... I was in one years and years ago when GTA4 came out, and I remember it like it was yesterday. A little kid told his (non english speaking) mom he wanted GTA, the store clerk tried explaining *SEVERAL* times: "ma'am this game is incredibly violent, it has killing, and prostitutes, and guns in it". Worthless mother didn't understand a single word, and on top of that didn't give a damn either. Kid got his game. Clerk at least TRIED to do the right thing. And just think, she was out driving and couldn't read a single freaking street sign, and more than likely didn't have insurance. (but that's a whole different conversation)

The fact is most parents are too stupid, and too lazy to properly raise a child. After 2 decades of kids getting to do just about anything they want, we all look around and can't understand why everyone these days is a worthless self absorbed piece of shit that can't count to 5 ,and cries when they don't get their way.

You can't spank your kids, you can't yell at them, you buy them whatever they want, and you bail them out of every messed up situation they get into. Of course they are going to be worthless adults.
 
I'm okay with people being called out on horrible decisions, parenting or otherwise. It's how we make a community and not a million little pockets of special snowflakes all looking out for nobody but themselves.
 
Not sure if there is a lot you can do about parents buying the game for their kids, nothing will happen until those parents that don't give a s#!t, start getting fined or some jail time. But then that opens a whole new bag of worms, because Little Timmy's dad isn't around, he may become a horrible drug dealing mass murdering scumbag when he's older, at least that's what the anti-penalize parents for their mistakes groups, would say.
 
The guidelines are there to educate. If the parents are aware of the guideline and properly informed, then its their job to do the parenting and make the decision for THEIR children.

Whats unquestionably moral behavior for one person is absolutely absurd for another. In France there were plenty of teenage girls topless at the beach, and there's little stigma about sexuality at least in the 90s. Introduce them to a man though that's a stout believer in Sharia Law, and he would consider himself far more moral and would believe that its justified if the women were stoned or raped or forced into marriage, while the French would consider him barbaric and immoral.

People often think too much in absolutes and don't even consider the idea of moral relativism, and that "one ring to rule them all" Mordor style doesn't work and one often isn't as superficially universally superior to the other. They are just codes of conduct, and many different ways work with different tradeoffs.

Long story short, sex and pretend violence isn't considered a big deal for all parents, and they can raise their kids to still be in their eyes great adjusted adults at least living up to their own moral standards.
 
collegeboy69us said:
As much as I hate gamestop for their dick-baggery... I was in one years and years ago when GTA4 came out, and I remember it like it was yesterday. A little kid told his (non english speaking) mom he wanted GTA, the store clerk tried explaining *SEVERAL* times: "ma'am this game is incredibly violent, it has killing, and prostitutes, and guns in it". Worthless mother didn't understand a single word, and on top of that didn't give a damn either. Kid got his game. Clerk at least TRIED to do the right thing. And just think, she was out driving and couldn't read a single freaking street sign, and more than likely didn't have insurance. (but that's a whole different conversation)

The fact is most parents are too stupid, and too lazy to properly raise a child. After 2 decades of kids getting to do just about anything they want, we all look around and can't understand why everyone these days is a worthless self absorbed piece of shit that can't count to 5 ,and cries when they don't get their way.

You can't spank your kids, you can't yell at them, you buy them whatever they want, and you bail them out of every messed up situation they get into. Of course they are going to be worthless adults.
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Stop crying you p*ssy.
 
Babbster said:
Read the article. At one point he implies that a parent is bad who says s/he is buying an M-rated game for an older child while accompanied by a younger child - I don't know if he's assuming the parent is lying or if he thinks that GTA is unsuitable for any kid; either way, it's not his place to judge a situation to which he is exposed for, what, a minute? Two?

Unless you're asserting that allowing a child to play GTA (or similar) is always wrong, and so wrong that strangers at cash registers should intervene, your point isn't applicable to this article/situation.

As far as people complaining about kids being "bad," that complaint has existed since just about forever. Sometimes the kids are truly "bad" and sometimes they're just being kids. Either way, intervention is only called for when something "bad" actually happens; prior to that, as a society, we have to trust parents because we can't police them 24/7.

If you see a kid being abused, you should absolutely intervene. If you see a 10-year-old playing an M-rated game on a handheld console, you should mind your own damn business.
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what he said was the parents either told him that the little kid's friends already had the game so it didn't matter or they were watching/playing it with their older siblings...neither scenarios involve parental guidance unless people are going to start advocating teenage siblings are responsible for the moral compasses of their younger brothers.

he also says he doesn't particularly care about what someone does with their own children but to remember that their child's behavior impacts *his* child's behavior when she endures insults like "bitch" or whatever derogatory slur is being pumped out to our youth atm.
 
imo the AO rating needs to get used more for games like GTA it is frankly an adult only game
but studios dont want to get stuck with it because walmart and bestbuy wont carry a game with an AO rating
 
oh only other way i can think of is for the ESRB to pay the MPAA for the use of there rating names
putting a big R on a game like GTA would help too as parents KNOW what R means
 
Elios said:
imo the AO rating needs to get used more for games like GTA it is frankly an adult only game
but studios dont want to get stuck with it because walmart and bestbuy wont carry a game with an AO rating
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Why won't they? Last I knew WorstBuy didn't have an issue with CDs with the "Parental Advisory" label.
 
Well to me the thing is, the reason GTA sold so well is because many of those parents started on it as kids, as they came into more money and matured they became part of a massive consumer force to push a billion dollars in sales in just 3 days.

So obviously this has been going on for plenty of time.

Also another point is, I really don't get why its not OK for kids but it is OK for adults. A lot of people here, well ask yourself honestly as you go to buy the game and then say well I wont let my kids play it.... yet. When was the first time you played it?
 
rudy said:
Well to me the thing is, the reason GTA sold so well is because many of those parents started on it as kids, as they came into more money and matured they became part of a massive consumer force to push a billion dollars in sales in just 3 days.

So obviously this has been going on for plenty of time.

Also another point is, I really don't get why its not OK for kids but it is OK for adults. A lot of people here, well ask yourself honestly as you go to buy the game and then say well I wont let my kids play it.... yet. When was the first time you played it?
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Do you have kids? Just wondering.
 
rudy said:
Well to me the thing is, the reason GTA sold so well is because many of those parents started on it as kids, as they came into more money and matured they became part of a massive consumer force to push a billion dollars in sales in just 3 days.

So obviously this has been going on for plenty of time.

Also another point is, I really don't get why its not OK for kids but it is OK for adults. A lot of people here, well ask yourself honestly as you go to buy the game and then say well I wont let my kids play it.... yet. When was the first time you played it?
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When I was about 19-20 :p
 
If the parent buys it, so be it. Just like R rating movies. If Gamestop sell's directly to an under age minor, then they should be busted, just like someone serving Alcohol to a minor.
 
Elios said:
imo the AO rating needs to get used more for games like GTA it is frankly an adult only game
but studios dont want to get stuck with it because walmart and bestbuy wont carry a game with an AO rating
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Yeah, because the moralists who think they know what's best for everybody won't allow consumers to fully exercise their judgment. Talk about on-topic.

I'm perfectly fine with a register monkey saying, "Hey, I just want to make sure you know that this game is rated M," and then showing a parent the rating and its modifiers on the box. That's absolutely reasonable. It's when said register monkey crosses into judgment if the parent decides to buy it regardless that it gets my hackles up. He doesn't know the parent(s), he doesn't know the kid(s), and he's clearly not a psychologist, so he's in no position to evaluate whether any harm is being done.
 
I think it should be up to the parents to decide whether to let their kids play M-rated games or not. If parents are bringing their kids up right, and actually giving a crap, it shouldn't be an issue.

But if they aren't bringing them up right, or giving a crap, and if their kid does something stupid, they shouldn't blame the game.
 
This is all circumstantial. I grew up playing violent video games and watching porn since I was 8 years old. I did not suffer any adverse mental effects and make a fine living do IT work. Yeah my parents knew what they were buying me but I seemed mentally capable of knowing right from wrong. Hell, I when I wasn't blasting strippers in Duke Nukem I was playing Pokemon on my gameboy or joining the trading card game league.

Now obviously this doesn't apply to everyone so in my opinion, figure it out on your own if your kid is capable of separating virtual from reality.
 
I watched an interview with Lt. Col. Dave Grossman.

His background,
Sergeant, US Army 82nd Airborne
Platoon Leader, 9th Infantry Division
A General Staff Officer
Company Commander, 7th (Light) Infantry Division
Parachute Infantryman
US Army Ranger
Professor of Psychology, West Point Military Academy

Author, "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society"
Author, "On Combat: The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace"

During his tenure at West Point, he researched (for the military) the psychology of killing another human being, "Killology". More specifically, how the military could be better able to turn the kill switch "On" and "Off" on demand.

Psychology professor Lt. Col. Dave Grossman talks about his new book "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society". He maintains that it is inherent in us to resist killing our own species and that research has proven that many soldiers engaged in face-to-face combat found it difficult to kill. Soldiers can be trained however, to overcome that resistance. Some veterans are still plagued with guilt about taking another man's life, but this guilt can be eased if they are assured that what they did was right. Addressing the rise in civilian murders, he believes that part of the reason is that children are becoming desensitized to violence because they are associating the bombardment of graphic images by the media with pleasure. (Originally aired March 1996).
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Like it or not, I agree with him. We are being bombarded with violent imagery from all forms of visual media. A sizeable portion of the populous are learning to associating violence with pleasure. They are learning to displace empathy for their fellow human beings for so many reasons. For the military, and for government's, it's the science of conditioning reflexes.

It's a good presentation, in it he talks about methods the military uses to "take the safety switch OFF of a human being", and how the kill ratio of individual soldiers has grown at a remarkable rate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9Ozno7HMGE
 
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