New display, Eizo FS2333, CG243W... or something else?

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Lebowsky

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Hi Hardforumers,

new here, and currently at the end of a long quest to buy a new PC, ending with the monitor. I just fully renewed my box, from a P4 to an i7 4770 with a GTX770.

Only the display is left to choose. I didn't really think about it, but now that I am building the new box, and looking at my 8yo 4:3 Samsung, I'm thinking it would be stupid not to upgrade that as well.

I spent the last two days reading reviews and threads, and the most interesting ones have been here at hardforum, hence why I am asking you guys!

My main uses for this monitor will be movies watching. I don't have a TV, so I watch everything on my PC. After that, professional office use like computer programming etc. I also do some video editing in Vegas or Premiere from time to time, and image editing in Illustrator (flyers mainly). I haven't gamed in a long time, but now that I am buying a new box, I might again. However probably not more than once a year during holidays...

So what I want is basically the best possible monitor for watching movies. I usually watch them in a dark room if that matters. Size wise, either 23 or 24".

German buying recommendations on prad (updated in september) seem to point towards either the Eizo Foris FS2333 (http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/kaufberatung/kaufberatung-teil6.html) or the Eizo CG24x (http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/kaufberatung/kaufberatung-teil7.html).

So I am currently eyeing the Foris 2333 and the CG243W. I am however quite open to other suggestions (and easily convincable) like Asus or Nec. Only HP and Dell are a definite no-go as I had bad experiences with them in the past (not particularly with monitors, but no reason for me to give them my money).

The CG243W seems to be the killer, but the Foris is 3x cheaper, which is to be considered. As I said, I am no photographer or professional image editor. But I am ready to go for overkill if the best possible monitor for my use costs 2000$.

Thanks!
 
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If you watch TV on your PC then i recommend a VA-Panel Monitor especially if you watching TV in a draker room. I also recommend a 27" Monitor it's easier on your eyes if you read a lot.
All the new MVA+ Monitors that have been releases this year on the 4 quarter are really good allrounder Montiors and cheap too. I will definitely buy one of those 27" MVA+ this year to replace my older MVA 24" Monitor.
And if you had a 8 year old 4:3 LCD then you will be happy with any new Monitor but if you had a good 4:3 CRT then you will definitely have a hard time. :D
 
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As Outbreaker mentioned, if your main use will be watching movies in a dark room, you'd want VA. But VA will not be quite as accurate as to colors as IPS (usually), and angles/ghosting will be a bit worse.

As to models to consider, if going IPS at 24", and money is no object, NEC has an entry level pro 24"er for around $750. NCX did a review here on that one. Looks good, but AH-IPS seems to have a bit more glow than I'd like.

Viewsonic 2770 and Eizo 2736 are considered two of the better 27"ers. Both are PLS and have less glow than IPS.

But again, if wanting for movies, VA would be your best bet. I think an Asus recently came out at 27" that is a bit better than older VAs.

I am curious about something though...

For those who use their monitors primarily for watching movies, I have to ask... why? I mean, I watch a ton of movies, but I'd never really consider using my computer to watch them on. Why not simply get a nice LCD or Plasma, and go with that with surround sound? For some people, money is the issue, as they can't afford two displays. But you already stated that you are willing to spend 2K. Instead of a 2K monitor, why not get a 50-60" Panasonic plasma for like $1000-$1500, and use the rest on a monitor?
 
Some people have a small room that can't fit a 42" Plasma and the new Plasmas have an input lag of 60ms in Game Mode. :rolleyes:
I have 2 LCDs one on my Desk and one at the side of my bed. The only problem with this is that i have a hard time to get out of my bed. :D My TV in the Living Room is also connected to my PC but i never use it.
 
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Size of living quarters is of course one consideration... didn't think of that.

Lag shouldn't matter, as a person could buy both a plasma + monitor for 2K. And I wouldn't suggest using a 50" plasma as one's main computer monitor.

In the VA-world, I expect that new Asus VA or BenQ2760 would be the better ones at 27". I'm not sure which is the best 24"er... 27" version has a newer panel, so it may be a bit better with angles and color coverage.
 
If you respect the distance form a screen then it doesn't matter how big a monitor is.
And for now the best VA is the Asus VN279QLB but the BenQ 2760HS is still a good Monitor especially for this price.
 
Outbreaker said:
Some people have a small room that can't fit a 42" Plasma and the new Plasmas have an input lag of 60ms in Game Mode. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Depends on the model, Panasonic plasma monitors have clocked in at under 10ms and even the flagship television VT60/VT65 is 23ms, really though for movie watching it makes no difference :p
 
Panasonic P50gt60 <2 frames of lag

Read some of their high end plasma reviews, there are a few with low enough lag.

FS233 vs CG2433W...lol. Eizo only sells 2 worth while high end models, the EV2763W & CG246. All of their high end CCFL back-lit models use grainy matte coatings
 
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Thanks for all the replies. My choice of the Eizos was really based on what I read at prad. If you think it's a bad choice, then like I said, I would be easily convinced to go for something else.

Why I want a monitor to watch movies instead of a plasma is simply because I don't have room for a tv. And since I'm also working a lot on that computer, I don't want to hook up a plasma screen to it either...

I must say, I only spent the last 2 days reading everything I could about monitors. I don't know all the parameters, like which coating is best for what I want. To be honest, I focused on IPS vs TN because I didn't really know about VAs... (which I am reading about as we speak).

I just bought an account on prad and am reading about that new Asus VN279 as we speak. Good thing my german ain't too rusty :) That monitor seems very attractive, however it is not very well rated for movies..?! (http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/kaufberatung/kaufberatung-teil5.html). NCX, what would you recommend in my situation?

Please note, I spent several hours a day also reading and typing, not only watching movies. So I need something that's won't give me a headache after 6 hours or coding... Also I didn't really understand why a 27" would be easier on the eye than a 23 or 24?
 
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Anti Reflectived Glass is the best, but i don't know any LCD Monitor that has this so you best choose is to use a sime-coating LCD Monitor if you still want vibrant colors and less grayish dark. ;)
And also look for a PWM free they are better for your eyes.
And way a 27" is easier on your eyes is simply bigger text = less eye strain especially if you site far away from your monitor.
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html
 
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Also, what about coating? Consensus seems to be that glossy is better, but from a logical point of view, I don't want to see myself in my monitor when watching a movie..??
 
Yes definitely glossy is better but then you have to use this Monitor it in a pitch dark room if you don't want a mirror. :D That's way you should look for a sime-coating Monitor and avoid any nomral-coating Monitors especially agressive-coating Monitors.
 
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You'll probably want a light-coated matte monitor. Most newer IPS panels are light, or at least lighter than they used to be. I think VA typically is light, although some may be more a medium coating. The older IPS models had a very heavy antiglare coating,which bothers a lot of people (including myself). Avoid those.

Another option, depending on how much room you have, is dual monitors. Get one IPS, the other VA. That way you'll get the best of both worlds.
 
1440p PLS panel using monitors offer the best performance (equal or better performance & less quality control issues vs IPS) currently unless you can afford the Eizo CG246

The Eizo EV2736W & Viewsonic VP2770=best 1440p

Eizo EV2736W
Viewsonic VP2770

also consider the BenQ BL2710PT, I am currently reviewing one.

You may want a 2nd monitor with deep blacks for movies & dark games. The Asus VN279Q, Samsung S27C750P (My Review) or a TV with proper PC support like the Samsung UN32F5000 (UK Version Review) are the best reviewed options.
 
Damn. I never thought looking for a new monitor would be more complicated than picking up every other single part of my new box... I feel like every time I think I make a step forward I actually take 3 steps back.... For every screen I look at there are people saying this or that is absolutely bad about it. VA panels are best for movies, but PLS are overall better than VA, but then there are quality control issues and people saying they had to send their monitor back 3 times before getting one without flaws... argh!!

NCX, are you saying that the VA monitors like the Asus VN279Q or Samsung S27C750P are not good for working on? I must say I don't really understand what you mean in better performance offered by 1440p PLS over VA, and I unfortunately don't have the space for 2 monitors. However I was sold on the earlier idea of going up to 27".

Yesterday evening I was reading this forum on a laptop with a very glossy screen, and I could see myself in the black, and there was not much light in the room. So I definitely know I don't want a mirror of a display! I think reading all those reviews and threads I was able to define criterias for my new monitor:

- No difficult calibration required. One of the conclusion of the Asus VN279Q review on prad is that the predefined settings are incredibly good for people who have no interest in spending hours in calibration. I think that would be me. :) well, I mean I don't mind changing settings, but I don't want to have to use a colorimeter and other devices or applications I don't know anything about.

- Definitely no glossy coating, as I said above. So either matte or semi-glossy, or very light.. I have difficulties really finding out which monitors of all those proposed have which type of coating.

- Nice colors when watching movies, so good black levels in a dark environment

- No backlight bleeding at all

- no motion blur

- up to ~1500$ (I don't quite know the prices conversion as I am in Switzerland, but let's say the Eizo CG243W would be in price range but the CG246 wouldn't)

- decent input lag in case of very very casual gaming


Does this help refining recommended choices? Sorry, I realize I might be asking the same things over and over again. But I really have a hard time narrowing choices down, and doing a pick based on very solid pros and cons.
 
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- Nice colors when watching movies, so good black levels in a dark environment
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If this is a main requirement for you, then it's really VA or nothing. IPS/PLS black levels will be okay in a well lit room, or even a dim room, if you aren't that picky. But you won't get really deep blacks in a dark room with IPS/PLS.

As for motion blur, unless you go with a LightBoost TN, there will always be some. But I assume you just mean really bad blur/ghosting. VA will be worse than IPS in that regard, generally speaking ... but you can't have everything.
 
Yeah I didn't think before searching that it wasn't possible to have almost everything. One would presume that in 2013 it wouldn't be such a difficult hunt to find a monitor for enthusiasts that does very well in all categories without suffering from any "big" flaws, without having to buy a 2000$ professional one :(

I think the only superior requirement for me would be the quality of the coating. The most matte and non-grainy possible, without losing picture quality. For me this comes short before how the screen should behave when watching a movie in a dark environment. (I admit I changed my mind between my original post yesterday and today).

I think I narrowed it down to two possibilites. Either the Asus VN279Q, as it really seems to be the best VA possible, and the Eizo EV2736W. The Viewsonic with which NCX seems to be highly enthusiast is very interesting, unfortunately it is not available quickly in Switzerland (and ordering internationally is no option, that would artificially raise the price way too high).
 
The Eizo EV2736W is basically as good as it gets, especially if you buy an i1 display pro & calibrate it.
 
Asus VN279Q or Eizo 2736 are good choices. If I was picking from amongst PLS options, I'd choose the Eizo (overlooking the fact that I can't afford it). Shame you don't have room for both, as that would seem to make the most sense for your viewing habits.

I wouldn't get that hung up over 'professional' monitors and think just because it costs 2K, it'll get around the flaws inherent in panels themselves. A $2000 IPS monitor will still stink with blacks in dark rooms. You'd be paying for uniformity and usually a wider gamut (which you wouldn't use anyway).
 
Thanks all of you for all the help, and quickly drawing me off my initial choices to point me to the right direction for my uses. After hunting down a few owners and asking additional questions, I decided on the Asus.
 
...and the Asus life on my desk was short. After being rather hugely disappointed with the comparison to my current 8yo Samsung Syncmaster 193P, I decided to revise my judgement and criteria on what should be my new monitor.

Basically, I am very happy with my 193P, except for on thing: the size. A few days of using the 27" Asus also made me realize that I really dislike working on a 16:9 monitor. I'm using 16:10 monitors at work (crappy HPs TN), and the additional vertical space is much more pleasant.

So what I would actually like is a pure upgrade from my current Syncmaster 193P. Same blacks, same colors, same or better input lag, just a bigger screen size, and no 16:9. I admit it does have some black crushing, but for me this is much less of a downside than horrible backlight bleed and black looking gray...

As the 193P is a PVA panel, I did some hunting on TFTCentral, and came up with the following non 16:9 PVA monitors, all from Eizo:

ColorEdge CG223W
FlexScan SX2262W
FlexScan S2100 (4:3)

Now, it was rather difficult gathering up any info on them. Do we know what kind of coating or if they suffer from backlight bleed? How they perform with movies (blacks and ghosting)? Any general opinions on those monitors?
 
Yeah I saw those 2 reviews.. unfortunately, there are none of the CG223W. There's one of the CG222W on prad, but I don't think it's really possible to extrapolate from it, as it was the previous model...

Anyway, the only thing that is making me think twice about it, is that they are saying that the black bars on movies are slightly lighter when watching 2.35:1 vs. 16:9 on the SX2262W.

What in particular is making you say that the SX2262W is better than the CG223W?
 
Reviewed Monitor>Non-Reviewed monitor

Feel free to be the first guinea pig :)
 
Those 22" Eizos are wide gamut. Do you do anything that requires wide gamut? They'd seem a bit of an odd choice to me for someone who wants to primarily watch movies/normal pc stuff.

As for the VAs you mentioned, they are all S-PVA, if I recall correctly. Blacks won't be as good as modern day AMVAs, but more on par with current IPS monitors. That said, they may be rather nice, just don't expect super deep blacks from them because they are VA. They are older VAs.

The FlexScan S2100 would probably make you a nice side monitor, but I wouldn't suggest you get it for your main monitor. I used to own Eizo's medical monitor using the same panel, and I currently have more or less the equivalent with NEC's flavor -- 2190uxp, right in front of me now. It's nice, but I like 4:3 and I use a TV for most movie watching. The only way I'd really suggest either the Eizo 2100 or NEC 2190 is to pick it up used or cheap on eBay. It's not worth $800+ for most people. As for coating, it has a med. coating... not light, but not super heavy like some IPS models. Ghosting is noticeable on some games/fast moving stuff, which is to be expected with S-PVA. Ghosting is fine for normal PC usage and casual gaming, however.

As for your Asus, is that bleed or some kind of odd VA glow? I assumed most VAs didn't even have glow, although I have only owned VA/S-PVAs. Does the glow change based on distance from the screen? And do you have it hooked up via DVI or HDMI? If the latter, be aware you may need a graphics driver hack to get proper blacks.

Other alternatives, if you prefer 16:10, is that BenQ 24"er that is PWM free. Or look for used 24" S-PVA models (NEC 2470, etc). There were several 24" SPVA flavors that were not wide gamut.
 
Nope I don't do anything requiring wide gamut. But isn't it possible to change the monitor mode? I chose those really because they were PVA like my Syncmaster, and 16:10. And smaller than 27".

I really think going for 27" was a wrong move, and after a lot of thinking, the only real thing that bothers me with my current PVA Syncmaster, is that it's only 19" 4:3. Everything else about it is better than the Asus imho. But I admit, many people probably wouldn't think that!

I used to game a lot on that monitor back then, and I never felt any problem. And anyway, I never play much anymore, maybe once a year and still.. so input lag is really a parameter I am willing to let go completely. I just want the same image quality than my 193P, with an improved screen size. Even if the image quality, except for the blacks, is "worse" than on modern IPS on AMVA panels...

On the Asus, I would say it's bleed. I never had an IPS so I don't have a comparison point. But it doesn't change when changing the distance.
I hooked it up with both Display Port and HDMI with similar results. But really, I think 16:9 is not for me, and 27" is too big anyway.

I simply have the subjective feeling that going with the Asus definitely was a downgrade from my old Syncmaster. I might just not be used to today's panel technology.. but I searched those forums for people looking to upgrade from that 193P, and most were disappointed with the results... which is why I am looking at maybe odd monitors for my uses, but that might be a better compromise...
 
Just make sure they have good S-RGB modes before considering a purchase. Yeah, they will have them (or should have them), but it doesn't always mean they work properly.

I also have a 19" VA, probably similar to your Samsung, although mine is a bit newer. I expect you simply prefer CCFL over LED, and it's not the VA panel type exactly. Although that info doesn't really help your monitor search a whole lot... I can say one thing about smaller monitors; they are more forgiving as far as streaming goes. The larger the monitor, the more artifacts will show up, especially for so-so quality streams.

But I know I'd have a hard time spending a premium for a 22" wide gamut SPVA, unless I was using it for graphics work (and couldn't afford a pro IPS). If you think glow will bother you, that rules out most IPS models. And if you want 16:10, that narrows things down a bit more.

As I mentioned, they did make 24" 16:10 S-PVAs, but you will have to hunt around for one. I expect that size would be preferred over 22" and as a bonus, several were not wide gamut. Just be aware that text on S-PVA may not be as crisp as IPS models, although personally it never bothered me much (after adjusting cleartype properly). It's the dual pixel structure that doesn't play nice with cleartype.
 
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It could very well be that it's a CCFL vs. LED issue, and that would be an interesting new factor to condsider. I'm not quite savvy on the subject I must admit... I actually thought CCFL had disappeared from all panels except some TNs. Or are all those older S-PVAs using CCFL?
 
Lebowsky said:
It could very well be that it's a CCFL vs. LED issue, and that would be an interesting new factor to condsider. I'm not quite savvy on the subject I must admit... I actually thought CCFL had disappeared from all panels except some TNs. Or are all those older S-PVAs using CCFL?
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All S-PVAs are/were CCFL, to the best of my knowledge. S-PVAs are mostly from around 2006-2009ish. There is also C-PVA, which Samsung brought out after S-PVA, but I don't think any of those were 16:10.

Only other thing regarding S-PVA to be aware of is their coatings. They won't be light coatings, so you may get a bit of sparkle. Consider them med. coatings.

Alternatively you could try a PWM free LED. Was the VA Asus you purchased previously PWM free? Typical issues with LED may be PWM causing eye fatigue and the fact it's a bit bluer than CCFLs.
 
The CG223W can be hardware calibrated with Eizo's Color Navigator Software and a colorimeter (i1 display pro, Spyder sucks) while the SX226W can't be. The CG223W's hardware calibrated results will easily be superior to the SX's sRGB mode. I'd get the EV2736W since it has very little glow and a 1440p monitor offers far more screen real-estate. The EV's blacks should be very similar to an S-PVA monitors while also providing better, gamma shift free colors.
 
Namelessme said:
All S-PVAs are/were CCFL, to the best of my knowledge. S-PVAs are mostly from around 2006-2009ish. There is also C-PVA, which Samsung brought out after S-PVA, but I don't think any of those were 16:10.

Only other thing regarding S-PVA to be aware of is their coatings. They won't be light coatings, so you may get a bit of sparkle. Consider them med. coatings.

Alternatively you could try a PWM free LED. Was the VA Asus you purchased previously PWM free? Typical issues with LED may be PWM causing eye fatigue and the fact it's a bit bluer than CCFLs.
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yeah the Asus is "almost" PWM free. If I understood correctly, the PWM kicks in only in the highest frequencies (2510Hz says prad).

Do you mean the coating on those Eizos will be matter or glossier? I also do prefer the coating on my old Samsung rather than the one of the Asus. The Asus was reflecting a bit, this would not have been a sole reason to give it back, but it was a little distracting nonetheless


NCX said:
The CG223W can be hardware calibrated with Eizo's Color Navigator Software and a colorimeter (i1 display pro, Spyder sucks) while the SX226W can't be. The CG223W's hardware calibrated results will easily be superior to the SX's sRGB mode. I'd get the EV2736W since it has very little glow and a 1440p monitor offers far more screen real-estate. The EV's blacks should be very similar to an S-PVA monitors while also providing better, gamma shift free colors.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is also what is making me lean towards the CG223W even though there are no reviews available. If I wanted to stay at 27" I would probably give the EV2736W a try, those pictures are impressive, but really, 27" is too big for me.
 
Well I don't know, it's just that working on the 27", it was just too large. So that's why I'm going back down to 22" and not even 24". Especially. since there are no 24" 16:10 available as new.
 
The S-PVA Eizos, and every S-PVA, will be matte. I believe most would be considered a medium antiglare coating, which still produces some sparkle.

C-PVA were primarily light coatings. And A-MVA can vary between medium and light (I think).

And there are of course 24" 16:10s available as new, if you go with IPS. But it'd be a pain to track down any 24" 16:10 CCFLs as new (although I wouldn't say impossible, if from eBay, etc.). And I have to agree with NCX, for the price, I'd have a hard time suggesting a 22" S-PVA. The only time I would suggest one of those is if you need wide gamut for graphics work, and require screen uniformity/hardware calibration, so want to go with a pro model ... yet can't afford the $1000+ monitors. Another option is to check eBay, etc. for a used Eizo 22"er, and get it cheap just to try out. If you like it, you could always get a new model down the road. Then keep the used model as a spare, or try to squeeze in dual monitors.
 
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I agree completely that the CG line is overkill for my uses. However I just found out about two other 22" models that are still available, Eizos as well - S2243 and S2233, I'll research those this evening.

The only 16:10 24" that seems partially available is the FX2431, although it says "backorder" everywhere, so I'm guessing it might not be available anymore.

Yet, like I mentioned in the Asus thread, I also wasn't expecting how "intolerant" a 27" size would be with upscaling compressed video content (~720x408 at ~1000kbps gives a lot of artifacts, blockiness,... in full screen, even when lowering the resolution), another reason to go down. I'm not sure how it would look on a 24", but as 16:10 are difficult to find, I'd rather concentrate on 22" that are more easily available.
 
Hmm... well, low res or poor streaming doesn't look particularly great at 24" 16:10 either, unless you sit somewhat far away from the monitor. How close do you sit to your monitor?

I can say bad/so-so content is okay at 21.3", 4:3, but 16:9 will be smaller on it than even a 22"er. Just mentioning those sizes, as that is what I have seen firsthand.

I forgot they used to make a 24" 16:10 Foris... wish they still did. Anyway, I see it is stock in some countries, but it's really pricey, $1200+. Not worth it.

If you go with a 22"er, I suggest looking at other manufacturers too, NEC, Samsung, etc. even if used, and get one cheap. At $100-$400, I could say it may be worthwhile... at $1000+.... not really, for your purposes. If you are okay with risk, you can sometimes get new models on eBay (Eizo CGs too). Eizo goes by the manufacture date for warranties, so long as it is still sealed and new, it should be covered. Although of course then if it has dead pixels or bleed, you can't always return it to eBay so easily.

Another alternative is to call Eizo and see what refurbs they have in stock. They used to have both a 24" 16:10 and 22" 16:10 (VAs) available as refurbs w/ 1 year warranties. I think they were pretty cheap too, if I remember right. But they may have sold those by now.
 
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