HardOCP News
[H] News
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PC Perspective has just put the finishing touches on their review of the MSI GeForce GTX 780 3GB Lightning video card. Here's a quote from the full review:
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MSI GeForce GTX 780 3GB Lightning Review
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Not all that impressed. Build quality looks nice and I'm sure someone will achieve OC's in the 1300's but based on this review, it clearly shows that there are certainly production variants that will only achieve 1241MHz. That's not shabby, but when you're paying $750 for the most expensive version of a 780 available, you simply expect higher binned chips to guarantee you're getting more for your money. The Galaxy HOF and EVGA Classified have both shown that they can do every bit of what that Lightning sample can do and they both do it at a lower cost. My EVGA Classfied is a pretty average OC'er based on the users reports I've seen, It does 1241/7200MHz. There are plenty of Classy's in the 1300's and mine won't do that under 1.2v, but I didn't pay $750 for mine, I paid $699. The Galaxy HOF's from user that I've seen so far are getting at least 1228-1300+ also and they're only paying $670-680'ish.
Xtremelowzfsc
n00b
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Agreed.
1333MHz here but I do question their "stability". Passing a few game benches isn't always100% stable however it doesn't suprise me that there's a Lightning 780 over 1300MHz.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_780_lightning_review,28.html
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_780_lightning_review,28.html
I really can't see AMD's next gen high end part costing less than $549 unless it really underperforms compared to the 780. However, its certainly debatable that the 780 is still overpriced. I own two of them and they're great but they should have been $550, not $650-700.
If that's the case you have an outstanding reference card. Be thankful that you have a golden sample but that certainly isn't the normal. I would also question that stability at that speed on a reference card.
This is what happens when AMD decides their last generation of cards were "good enough" and the Never Settle Bundle was making them so much money that they decided to take 2 years off. Gave Nvidia free reign to rehash the previous generation of cards with a new number and mark up the prices on Day 1 by 15-20% for each pricing segment. That's before you get the retailer markup.
So long as AMD makes performance dead even in all categories or even pulls a slight lead, that alone will be enough to force price drops. I'm truly disgusted how Nvidia has milked the market the way they have, but hey who's to blame them in the end for capitalizing on there competition deciding to take a lunch break? The best card with the right price was the 660 out of both 600/700 Series IMO. Everything else was a joke starting with the 5% gain but $100 cost from 660 to 660 Ti.
I played the whole of crysis 3, metro LL, asssassins creed 3 with it, seemed fine.
(im not the benchmarking type)
Cool, I thought it was a little higher than others, didn't know it was "golden"
I'd like to see that.
I have two reference Galaxy cards watercooled at maximum volts using Afterburner and I get a very stable 1150, but don't think I could go much more.
Still Im very happy with mine. cant say I would pay 750
I'd like to see that.
I have two reference Galaxy cards watercooled at maximum volts using Afterburner and I get a very stable 1150, but don't think I could go much more.
Still Im very happy with mine. cant say I would pay 750
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/2028/4dei.jpg (look @ msi, evga showed wrong clocks, old ver)
I wouldn't pay $750 either. I was extremely hesitant at $650, I was expecting $500 or $550 for the 780.
I agree, my reference 780 will pass the Sleeping dogs benchmark quite easily at ~1240Mhz (1.2v) without any sign of instability. Ask it to run Crysis 3 on the other hand and it crashes out after 10 minutes.
If I was to test 60 second run throughs though it would pass everything at ~1240Mhz.
For me a card is only stable if I can actually game on it.
tonyftw
[H]ard|Gawd
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With the new bios that was released today for this card (300% power target), it could start pulling away from its main competitor in the 780 classified.
Being a lightning fan, I'm semi-disappointed with this card. The cooler seems to be nothing special, horribly over-priced, and does nothing what the classified can't already do.
Being a lightning fan, I'm semi-disappointed with this card. The cooler seems to be nothing special, horribly over-priced, and does nothing what the classified can't already do.
Is the voltage completely adjustable on the Lightning up to 1.5v? If not, the Lightning is still no competition for the Classified. Increased power target is great, but there's plenty of modified BIOS's out there for the Classified increasing the power target. Voltage adjustment seems to be the biggest difference between the two.
Both the lightning and classified allow up to 1.35V through software.
Not sure where you're getting 1.5V from. To go past 1.35V you need EV Bot which costs 50$, and it disables LLC (low idle voltage).
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Being an owner of a Classified, I know exactly where 1.5v comes from. Is there a reason why a Classified owner can't buy an EVBOT? I made the statement that the Classified allows up to 1.5v which is a factual statement so I'm not really sure where you're going with your statement because you simply said the same thing I did only adding $50 to the price to get there but here's a newsflash in case you missed it, the Lighting 780 is $750, the Classified 780 is $700, add a $50 EVBOT and the price is the same as the Lightning but you have even MORE voltage control than the Lightning.
Yea, add waterblocks too, because without them, you wont get anywhere near 1.5.
Oh please. You're not going to be running 1.5V on any card unless you're using LN2 or Water, give me a break. Even 1.35V is questionable without better than air cooling.
So what you're saying is that its not even possible to run 1.5v? Because last time I checked, it is. Why do I care if its on water or LN2? Who are you to decide how someone wants to use their card when they buy it? Are you the graphics card police that tells everyone they must use the factory air cooler? Get over yourself man and just admit you mispoke in this case. 1.5v is available for the Classified, it is NOT available for the Lightning. The Classified is $50 cheaper if you stick with software overvoltage and same price if you buy an EVBOT which allows additional voltage headroom so your argument flat out sucks and really comes across like a Lighting fanboy that simply can't admit that MSI released a more limited card that is priced higher. Deal with it dude.
Is a waterblock out of the question? Did you not realize that there are Classifieds with waterblocks on them already? Are you dense or just not keeping up with the latest hardware? Or are you just anti-EVGA because you're still hung up on Asus?
I'll never understand why manufacturers like MSI make these "top dog" cards with anything other than rear-exhaust fans. Many users who are willing to shell out $750 for a video card are willing to shell out $1500, since many will want the gains that SLI gives. These fan setups are terrible for SLI.
Most people wanting a card like this for SLI is hoping to break records in which case an open air setup is probably more common for maximum overclocking and when using water or LN2, you won't use the stock air cooler anyway. If all you want is two top 780's in SLI, you can choose one of the many other options and still overclock them quite well, you just won't get that top 10% out of the cards that only water and LN2 will get you.
What OC are you getting with it?
Its not out of the question, but if you add waterblock the price is even higher then the Lightning price for which you where whining, and now all of a sudden adding blocks + evbot is suddenly perfectly fine price wise? hilarious!
And yes i hate Evga guts, for selling reference cards with higher prices then fully non reference skus in the past, superclocked, rofl.....
Did you even put any thought into your post? I'm not even sure you're serious right now.
Mine is a pretty average overclocker compared to most Classy's, but its 100% stable at any game or bench at 1241/7200MHz at 1.187v. I don't even use the additional voltage from the Classified Tool or EVBOT but there are numerous Classy's on OC.net over 1400MHz stable on water without an EVBOT.
I'm not saying the Lightning isn't overpriced - i'm just confident that the Lightning is as good or better than the classified on air cooling. Is it 80$ better? Probably not. The card needs to be cheaper, I definitely agree on that point.
Let's face it, 1.35V on air is generally not sustainable so I agree with your methodology of overclocking; what you can do in a 45 second benchmark (with an over-voltage overclock) won't match what you can do in the real world 24/7. So with that being the case, for real world use, 1.35V and 1.5V don't matter. For a real world gaming overclock I wouldn't exceed 1.25V, if that. I definitely wouldn't even think of 1.35V+ for a "real world" 24/7 overclock. Will anyone get a 1400mhz overclock in the real world with either card? Hell no. Definitely not on air, questionable on water. Benchmarking is all about cheating and pushing the limits within your 2 minute benchmark window, I know this because i've done it. Most of my benchmarks that i've done in the past were not sustainable in real world gaming or 24/7 use, not by a mile.
That said, these cards are designed for folks who want world records in benchmarks. In that respect the classified and lightning aren't really better or worse than each other, although the Lightning does have better build materials and more power phases. I'm just not sure that is worth 80$ more to the typical user - that answer is probably a no. But for someone seeking world records, it could be worth it. There are tons of Lightning and classified owners on the HWBot leaderboard, and they go absolutely nuts with LN2 and water cooling. Those guys probably don't care about costs whatsoever. Oh, and for that type of crowd - unlocking 1.8V on either card (if they wanted) would be trivial. There were software hacks for the Lightning 680 to allow 1.8V, and my understanding is that one exists for the 780 Lightning as well. I don't see the EV Bot as a value add for the classified as any type of value add, because that is aimed at benchmarking nuts. I can't see any gamer messing with 1.35V+ for 24/7 use, not unless they go nuts like CallSignVega.
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