Microsoft: Restricting Used Games Will Drive Prices Down

At this point, Microsoft needs to quit with the crazy talk and hold a mid-summer press event to reverse its stance on used games, game sharing and DRM. Heck, they can even play it off as a "we have listened to our customers" move. Seriously.

"As you go into a digital world, what's happening is publishers are choosing to have different business models, and consumers are saying 'Hey, if I can't resell the title, provide me a different way to get value to get into your game.' And we think the market will be efficient in finding good models that work for consumers." In essence, Mehdi said, consumer demand for good value from games will drive prices down, even if a publisher decides to fully cut off the market release valve of used game resale.

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This is exactly what rudy has been saying this whole time. Having a monopoly always drives prices down. What's good for companies is absolute good for consumers. It makes perfect sense, doesn't it.

not with balmer still ceo Microsoft is acting like they know whats best when designing products instead of actually listening to their costumer base... Balmers got to go... before he pulls a hp and damn near destroy the company with his vision.

This might not be totally unreasonable ... Steam has substantially changed PC ownership models and it did drive down prices ... the app stores for mobile have also done this ... it is isn't beyond the realm of possibility that the same thing would happen with a closed console environment ... it is after all the same publishers that have driven down the prices on the PCs and tablets/phones ... the only question mark is economy of scale (there are a lot more PC gamers and tablet/phone gamers than console gamers)

sounds like the steam route and if it does go that way its good for consoles but i have my doubts that games will get cheaper.

Prior to steam, you would buy a PC title and it would come with an activation code. The code was a basic and simple way to prevent pirating. This was needed on PC and not consoles, because PC discs are made to be read by computers which, reasonably, can copy that data. Consoles have never had the ability to copy a game disc.

So PC gamers had piles of game discs, and codes. But obviously the codes didn’t work an infinite number of times. That would defeat the entire purpose of the code! So if, say, you bought a new computer and needed to reinstall the game onto your new system, you would need to first contact the game company, read them your product code, and then they would either allow an additional activation, or would give you a new code to use.

All in all, it was complicated as fuck. What’s more, because computer games can be run without the disc in the machine, sometimes gamers would simply lose the disc! Then, when they get a new computer, they would be SOL and need to rebuy any missing games.

Add in account locking to this situation, and the consumer is nothing but pleased: He doesn’t need to keep track of discs and codes anymore! He can install on any number of computers! All is well in the world!

But now let’s look at consoles: They share none of these problems. Instead, they had cartridges (later, discs) which could easily be swapped from system to system with no drm (because discs weren’t made in a way that was easy to duplicate anyway). And console users always had a decent library established for their game discs since they were always necessary to play the game.

Add account locking to this and…. well it’s really just throwing a monkey wrench into the consumer’s plans. Everything gets more complicated. Even if it doesn’t create a barrier to what you wanted to do (like play a game at a friend’s house without bringing over your xbox), then it’s still only an additional hassle with absolutely no benefit to you.

PC Gaming has never been about bringing your game to your friend’s house and playing it on his PC.
PC Gaming is rarely multiplayer/multiaccount on the same machine.
Steam sells most of the games available on consoles for cheaper.
Steam has massive sales and bundled sales where you can get games anywhere from 50-90% off retail price.
Steam doesn’t prevent you from installing mods on your games.
Steam doesn’t require an internet connection once the games have been installed.
More than one person can be logged into the same steam account at the same time. [EDIT: to be completely accurate, more than one person can use the same account at the same time, but only one can be logged in AND playing the games - but the point stands, one account can be used by multiple people to play the same games.]
PC Gaming has never been about game resale.
Console gamers have always relied on used game resales/trades/rentals.
Console gamers have not had the requirement to be logged in to play single player before – for some gamers I know in rural areas, this is one of the reasons they own a console over a powerful gaming PC.
Finally, I don’t HAVE to use Steam to play games on my PC. I can choose to get them from ANYWHERE. You don’t have a choice on the XBox One.
The PC is not a closed platform, and many games are available through different services. That means that while Steam has an effective Monopoly due to widespread use, it’s not the only choice on the market, it is a free thinking peoples choice. On Xbox’s platform, you’ll do things Microsoft’s way or not at all.

Valve is also really good to its customers. Constant sales, ease of downloading titles, an offline mode, and no subscription fee. Microsoft’s platform definitely lacks some of these perks, and it’s unlikely they will ever be as generous or as forward thinking as Valve, so a closed platform with all of the drawbacks of Steam with few or none of the perks of it does not sound appealing to me.

Furthermore, when I purchase a console I’m looking for a different experience than I get from a PC. For me, a PC is a much more personal piece of equipment; I don’t care if I can’t easily transport my games from place to place or lend them out because I’d never expect that from the platform. When it comes to consoles I value physical media, and I value being able to rent games or to take them to a friend’s house without having to transport my PC, create a user account on their system or download the whole bloody game at my destination. At that point I’m getting all of the drawbacks of PC gaming on a system that is substantially less powerful than a gaming PC I could build for just a little bit more money.

To sum it up, it lacks most of what made console gaming attractive in the first place and it’s inferior in every way to building a PC for my living room. That’s why I hate what they’re doing with this and it’s why I won’t be buying it.

Everywhere I look, from my massive social media circle to the MMO's I play, WoW, GW2, etc to the dozens of forums I'm on, everyone ... EVERYONE is saying they are getting the PS4.

Here are some of the reasons I've read that have made the PS4 so extremely popular among the maasses.

Console is cheaper, cheaper online subscription, faster AMD APU, better design, focus on games and gamers, not as intrusive as Microsoft, can resell games and many other reasons.

Oh I will be in-line for the PS4 no questions asked to show my support for Sony and console gamers around the world.

I don't see that steam has really driven down the cost of games. I do see a lot of indie titles that are a reasonable price, but I don't see much difference from Xbox Arcade. The few AAA titles I have bought from Steam and Origin on launch day were still very much $60.

The difference between steam and console is the licensing fee that console owners charge per game.

Microsoft wants us to believe that they will sell stuff cheaper? I hope everyone still remembers that they were trying to sell a wifi adapter for $100.

demingo said:

The difference between steam and console is the licensing fee that console owners charge per game.

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Depends on how much the license fee is ... remember that Steam and the mobile app stores take a 30% cut of the sale price for being sold in their stores ... I would be surprised if the license fee is greater than that

Did developing an XB1 come with a gun so you could shoot yourself in the fucking foot, MS? Seriously, what kind of long standing internal conversations and meetings did you have where you wholesale fucked over nearly your entire user pool?

Slowly console gamers will be reeducated and adapt their expecations. This is all for the greater good. Trust them, they are in it for you.

Not for release day games, but there are so many great titles that if you buy during sales you have a library full to play at fractions of full retail.

Methadras said:

Did developing an XB1 come with a gun so you could shoot yourself in the fucking foot, MS? Seriously, what kind of long standing internal conversations and meetings did you have where you wholesale fucked over nearly your entire user pool?

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I am pretty sure this explains it. Being a former Project manager, there is a frightening amount of truth to this.

For Microsoft, Xbox was always a means to an end--to gain control over your living room. With Xboner they are trying to finally use that trojan horse to accomplish their longstanding goal. They don't really give a shit about gaming, if they did, they would have done more for the PC side.

westrock2000 said:

I don't see that steam has really driven down the cost of games. I do see a lot of indie titles that are a reasonable price, but I don't see much difference from Xbox Arcade. The few AAA titles I have bought from Steam and Origin on launch day were still very much $60.

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It hasn't driven down launch prices, but the price of games 1-2 months later.

I already have more games than I can play with Steam. Steam drops prices reasonably fast and has insane sales. The problem with MS is that it's games on XBLA rarely went on sale, What is there to make me think MS will make anything else cheaper, even over time.

You guys need to be careful about Sony, they are as bad and are just being opportunists on the stupidity of MS in recent days/weeks. OtherOS for PS3 is one of those indicators. It is the lesser of the evils that you are picking.

Sony only promised disc sharing on their own releases not on any others. And if you think EA is going to miss out on the used game "business", regardless the system, think again.

if it is true, make the games $40 at launch.

this new limitation effects every game sold, then the benefit should effect every game sold.

people are forgetting that sony is leaving it up to the developer to block used games etc. Im sure there will be a huge backlash once that happens.

westrock2000 said:

I don't see that steam has really driven down the cost of games. I do see a lot of indie titles that are a reasonable price, but I don't see much difference from Xbox Arcade. The few AAA titles I have bought from Steam and Origin on launch day were still very much $60.

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ummm...steam sale anyone?

also some titles that are made available for pre-order can have some discounts determined by the publisher

Oh what, have I been saying all along.

Citation: Steam.

dagamer34 said:

It hasn't driven down launch prices, but the price of games 1-2 months later.

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Which is perfectly fine by me. Few games to me are "first day" material to me, even when other people are like OMFG YOU MUST PLAY THIS. For me, 1-2 months is ample time to find out just how buggy the final version of the game is, and whether or not the company behind it will make any patch fixes. And if there happens to be a price drop on it in that time frame, or a sale, then it's an even bigger win for me.

If they actually believed that, then they would be offering lower game prices at launch.

Ever since the Sony rootkit garbage, they have been banned from my house. On another note, I have always bought games without the intention of reselling them. Personally, I am more concerned about the ability to play the game 10 years from now than reselling it.

No one wants to shell out $60 for a game that they have zero flexibility with after. Lots of people buy then new title, get their fill and sell it to recoup their costs -- this all goes away once publishers have their way. These users will simply not buy the title at launch and wait for it to hit a price point they are willing to pay (which could be for months).

Let's see what kinds of incentives publishers will push, in order to get consumers to swallow the high MSRP. Considering all the backlash against the Xbone, game prices may have to drop incredibly quickly for adoption.

Hard to believe that MS has not done the obvious solution, what they always do, just copy someone else that is successful, namely Valve. MS should have there store where you can purchase all the games, and allow normal disk operations, and do what they have to do to make sure the disk is not a copy.

Let me channel the ironborn: oh ho ho!

kbrickley said:

This might not be totally unreasonable ... Steam has substantially changed PC ownership models and it did drive down prices ... the app stores for mobile have also done this ... it is isn't beyond the realm of possibility that the same thing would happen with a closed console environment ... it is after all the same publishers that have driven down the prices on the PCs and tablets/phones ... the only question mark is economy of scale (there are a lot more PC gamers and tablet/phone gamers than console gamers)

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The thing is, Steam has competition.

Greenmangaming, Origin, Amazon, GoG, Gamersgate, etc.

This competition creates price wars, it's not uncommon for you to be able to pre order an upcoming AAA game at some of those places for over $15-20 from the retail price like you find at gamestop.

Greemangaming for example (where I usually buy most of my pc games) constnatly has 20-25% coupons that you can use to pre order games. I've gotten many new games from them for 35'ish bucks instead of the 50-60 price they normally are.

The main different between pc digital selling and the Xbox one's is simple, with consoles you have either MS, sony, or nintendo who take a cut out of each game sold and fee's associated with various things. The PC market does not have this, and thus there's no company t hat directs game makers and charges these fee's.

With microsoft's Xbox one, they control the retailers and the publishers control reselling and what not of their games.

Not to mention, have you EVER saw gamestop have that many sales on NEW games? No, gamestop almost always has their new games at 59.99, they are notorious for the lack of sales on new games and giving you SHIT for "Trade ins."

Meanwhile look at places like Ebay, this is where most (well smart) people sell their used games, you can get 30+ on newer games whereas gamestop might offer you 10-15 bucks.

All of this will be lost with MS's plan and it will NOT be at all like the current pc digital stores.

This is a straight up monopoly and imo is just as bad as the current apple fisaco with their E-book price fixing, where both Apple and the book publishers were upset that Amazon was selling Ebooks for cheaper then the physical ones and they got together to fix the prices.

When you all publishers to control retail and take away the competition factor of such things you lead to monopolies, good for the business, bad for the consumer.

Steve said:

At this point, Microsoft needs to quit with the crazy talk and hold a mid-summer press event to reverse its stance on used games, game sharing and DRM. Heck, they can even play it off as a "we have listened to our customers" move. Seriously.

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No resale drives prices down? The fuck it does ... Steam's new game prices are still $60.

Also, look at the history of their prices on Live and PSN, the prices are all the same as the boxed copy. It cant be resold, wheres the "driven down price"?

I've loved my 360, but I have the ps4 pre-ordered and don't plan on the Xboned. Don't get me wrong, I'm a heavy PC gamer (steam included), but sometimes a console game on the tv is great.

MS is really screwing the pooch, not only on this, but WIN 8 as well. If they drop the game price to 1/2 say $29.99 I could see it, maybe. Probably 1/2 the console games I buy are used today.

With MS killing the used market, they can sit and spin for all I care. I hope they fail big time!

If it wasn't for the used game and online requirement BS I'd be getting the Xbox One.

Filter said:

people are forgetting that sony is leaving it up to the developer to block used games etc. Im sure there will be a huge backlash once that happens.

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No, their not. Developers can have their own drm if they want, but they cannot block used games. Not even technically possible, since the console can be indefinitely off-line. You don't know what you're talking about.

Ocean said:

if it is true, make the games $40 at launch.

this new limitation effects every game sold, then the benefit should effect every game sold.

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Seriously put your money where your mouth is. Charge us $35-40 for games and half off DLC if this "closed" system is for our benefit. Oh wait .. you can't right? Because of overly bloated and expensive AAA titles that you are so fond of jamming down our throats.

MS sure is the king of eating its own bullshit. We'll just wait 6 months and see if they are singing the same tune.

Filter said:

people are forgetting that sony is leaving it up to the developer to block used games etc. Im sure there will be a huge backlash once that happens.

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Sony is playing it smart and staying the fuck out of this clusterfuck. If publishers enact DRM then consumers will simply not buy it , if EA and the like wanna do another Simshitty than consumers will be happy to respond .. harshly and in kind.

Filter said:

people are forgetting that sony is leaving it up to the developer to block used games etc. Im sure there will be a huge backlash once that happens.

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EA tried it and they now admit it was a huge mistake. It's not going to happen unless it's forced by the console.

Anyways, there's a huge difference between publisher enforced DRM and console based DRM, huge.

No cd/dvd/blueray disk no money from me ! Screw steam also I would never pay money for some fools to store my software in the cloud. Looks like your torrent sites are going to be dam busy for a long time to come hahaha love it.

Xboned?! Love it.

I will now of course use this term from here on out.

Haha

People at Microsoft must be constipated because they don't give a shit. This was the their same "screw you, we know what you want, now deal with it" tactic they used with Windows 8. They keep thumbing their noses at the consumer and in turn we do the same.

Stiler said:

The thing is, Steam has competition.

Greenmangaming, Origin, Amazon, GoG, Gamersgate, etc.

This competition creates price wars, it's not uncommon for you to be able to pre order an upcoming AAA game at some of those places for over $15-20 from the retail price like you find at gamestop.

Greemangaming for example (where I usually buy most of my pc games) constnatly has 20-25% coupons that you can use to pre order games. I've gotten many new games from them for 35'ish bucks instead of the 50-60 price they normally are.

The main different between pc digital selling and the Xbox one's is simple, with consoles you have either MS, sony, or nintendo who take a cut out of each game sold and fee's associated with various things. The PC market does not have this, and thus there's no company t hat directs game makers and charges these fee's.

With microsoft's Xbox one, they control the retailers and the publishers control reselling and what not of their games.

Not to mention, have you EVER saw gamestop have that many sales on NEW games? No, gamestop almost always has their new games at 59.99, they are notorious for the lack of sales on new games and giving you SHIT for "Trade ins."

Meanwhile look at places like Ebay, this is where most (well smart) people sell their used games, you can get 30+ on newer games whereas gamestop might offer you 10-15 bucks.

All of this will be lost with MS's plan and it will NOT be at all like the current pc digital stores.

This is a straight up monopoly and imo is just as bad as the current apple fisaco with their E-book price fixing, where both Apple and the book publishers were upset that Amazon was selling Ebooks for cheaper then the physical ones and they got together to fix the prices.

When you all publishers to control retail and take away the competition factor of such things you lead to monopolies, good for the business, bad for the consumer.

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First lets get this out of the way.

I am literally rolling on the ground laughing at all you hypocrits crying about competition. If any one of you ever gave a flying shit about competition you would not own a console where the entire ecosystem is controlled.

Oh but suddenly now we are making a claim that used games are the competition. Man its unbearable seeing the irony of that.

Second competition comes in many forms so its not like it just disappears with used games. So lets define where competition really comes from and its not just used games. Do you guys really honestly think that all the people in America are just made of money and without used games they are suddenly going to wake up and go, well I guess I am going to spend $600 for 10 games this year. lol no, the same people who held out for used games will be holding out for sales and when companies see their revenue at $60 dry up, they will drop the price to move people in. Over time people will learn the patterns and know the buy points and companies will try to get that.

There is inter game competition. If BF3 and COD both ship at $60, after a while one of the companies realizes they can steal players from the other by dropping the price faster. they compete with in the ecosystem for your limited dollars. You can see this even on the PC where BF3 has had a lot more and better sales than COD which has the bigger audience. This could mount up over a couple generations and BF could be the bigger franchise by hooking more players.

Then you have inter platform. so obvious everyone here is going to buy a PS4, and so what then, some people will find a fire sale on unsold XBone games and realize its cheaper to load up with the xbone, or MS will lower the prices themselves to catalyze sales.

You also have F2P and new gaming models creeping in that WILL be available on both console platforms putting pressure on publishers to come up with better value.

And you can all reference my other posts to see how companies and sony are going to push you to digital only games anyway.

At the end of the day most people have limited cash or interest in buying stuff and they decide on many factors and those factors will not magically disappear simply because xbone doesn't allow used games.