Upgrading EIZO S2433W, with what?

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sblantipodi

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Hi,
I'm thinking of upgrading my Eizo S2433W with a new monitor, possibly a led monitor.

I want a wide gamut monitor that can be calibrated with a colorimeter in a decent way.
What monitor could be a decent upgrade under the 700€?

Is there a real improvements in LEDs monitors over the standard lamp?

Thanks.
 
only energy consumption. but my opinion is that CCFL monitors are able to produce better whites.
 
63jax said:
only energy consumption. but my opinion is that CCFL monitors are able to produce better whites.
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is there a great reviews about CCFL vs bgLed?
it seems that Eizo and NEC are switching professional monitors from CCFL to LED this means that LED can't be that bad.
 
gb-led are better that the traditional w-led and if you plan to go with an gb-led i sugest go for it, but if i were to choose between an w-led and CCFL i wold choose an CCFL. anyway, finding good CCFL monitors now is not easy.
 
63jax said:
gb-led are better that the traditional w-led and if you plan to go with an gb-led i sugest go for it, but if i were to choose between an w-led and CCFL i wold choose an CCFL. anyway, finding good CCFL monitors now is not easy.
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why you prefer CCFL over gb-led?
and why if CCFL is better professional monitors are switching to bg led?
 
I'm not really sure any CCFLs exist anymore, besides a handful of NEC and Eizo models. And those (besides 19"-23" VAs), will be IPS with the heavy antiglare coatings.

LED = less heat, thinner, less power, faster to optimal brightness ... but some are sensitive to LED flicker and color coverage (at least w-led) may be less than CCFL. LEDs may be a bit too 'blue' for some.

As for why manufacturers went to LED, it's thinner and newer, so it has to be better, right? On the television front, it's great for marketing, anyway.

There are some real advantages to LED (although generally not related to image quality), but the disadvantage to some is that they are sensitive to the flicker. In such a case, look for PWM-free models.
 
Namelessme said:
There are some real advantages to LED (although generally not related to image quality), but the disadvantage to some is that they are sensitive to the flicker. In such a case, look for PWM-free models.
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Is there a list of PROS and CONS from CCFL and BG-LED?
 
Off the top of my head the cons for GB-LED would be flicker, if you are sensitive to it (and monitor uses PWM). And the fact that all (or close to all) GB-LEDs seem to be in wide gamut displays, so if you want S-RGB, you'd have to put up with S-RGB mode. And that can result in lowered contrast and other oddities on some models.

And some people just prefer the look of CCFL, as it may be a bit softer and not quite as blue. But I expect those people were comparing to LED, not GB-LED.
 
Not really, or at least not directly.

IPS models nowadays have are a bit better with blacks than 5+ years ago, during CCFL days, but that is more due to the panel I expect than the backlight. And we are talking about a somewhat minor bump. LEDs also seem to cause more bleeding, which may negate any improvement with blacks. But that is probably due to quality control issues. And newer VAs have darker blacks than older panels, but again, don't think that has anything at all to do with the backlight.

LED models do tend to have brighter screens, if that matters to you. Most would consider that a negative though.

What models are you considering? If going from an Eizo, and you want wide gamut, the two companies to look at would logically be another high end Eizo or perhaps a pro model NEC. But I am not sure you can get one of those in your pricerange.
 
Namelessme said:
Not really, or at least not directly.

IPS models nowadays have are a bit better with blacks than 5+ years ago, during CCFL days, but that is more due to the panel I expect than the backlight. And we are talking about a somewhat minor bump. LEDs also seem to cause more bleeding, which may negate any improvement with blacks. But that is probably due to quality control issues. And newer VAs have darker blacks than older panels, but again, don't think that has anything at all to do with the backlight.

LED models do tend to have brighter screens, if that matters to you. Most would consider that a negative though.

What models are you considering? If going from an Eizo, and you want wide gamut, the two companies to look at would logically be another high end Eizo or perhaps a pro model NEC. But I am not sure you can get one of those in your pricerange.
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newer VAs? it seems that VAs are beeing dismessed everywhere.
 
There is that newer 27" Samsung and PWM-free BenQ VA that may be decent, but they'll be 1080p, so not sure it's exactly an upgrade for you.

I wouldn't say VA is dismissed, as some people still prefer them. The problem nowadays with VA (to me, anyway), is that they are primarily used in cheapo models. So if you want VA with good electronics (LUT, etc), you need to look at NEC or Eizo -- and you'd have to get an older panel, S-PVA or C-PVA -- and even those are sort of rare.

There are also no 16:10 A-MVA panels being made now. And there are no 1440p 27" A-MVA models being made.

So basically your choices in VA-land nowadays are either: lower end (compared to your Eizo), consumer VAs geared mostly towards multimedia uses, or older tech from years ago. They don't make a high-end 16:10 A-MVA model that you can replace your current S-PVA with.
 
Hi sblantipodi. How are you these days?

The EV2736W looks nice. I'm happy with my combination of OLED TV and EV2333W, but I have a longing for a high resolution IPS monitor.

It feels a bit late to consider a 2560*1440 model though; I want to wait for the normalisation of 4K.
 
Whoisthisreally said:
Hi sblantipodi. How are you these days?

The EV2736W looks nice. I'm happy with my combination of OLED TV and EV2333W, but I have a longing for a high resolution IPS monitor.

It feels a bit late to consider a 2560*1440 model though; I want to wait for the normalisation of 4K.
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Hi Whoisthisreally, nice to read you again :)
Unfortunantly I'm quite stressed, too much work o_O

You are right, waiting for a 4K monitor is probably the best "reasonable upgrade".

The EV2333W is a great monitor, I like it but I can't live with 16:9.
 
would the EV2736W meet his color accuracy requirements? I assumed that anything not in the cs/cs/cg line was not designed for professional work.
 
sorry I'm asking for my own edification as well-- could the ev2736w be considered a monitor that is ok for professional work as long as you have a color calibrator? admittedly I am making an assumption that if he wants to calibrate it with a colorimeter that means he wants to use it for professional work.
 
cnrhus said:
sorry I'm asking for my own edification as well-- could the ev2736w be considered a monitor that is ok for professional work as long as you have a color calibrator? admittedly I am making an assumption that if he wants to calibrate it with a colorimeter that means he wants to use it for professional work.
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I'm not a CG/Photo practitioner but I like accuracy, I can't imagine a monitor of mine without a good calibration.
Monitors tends to be good when new but than the whitepoint and accuracy change drammatically.
When I bought the S2433W I had something near to 6500K, after one month the whitepoint dropped to 5900K, it took some months before my monitor stabilized from a calibrated 6500K to a minimum value of 6300K.
Now my monitor doesn't go under 6350K after months of "no calibration", but I see the difference.
When you have 6300K and than you calibrate the monitor to 6500K, you see, wow,
what a bad monitor I had before calibration.

I own the S2433W since two year now, with colorimeter I had the same monitor (or similar one) I bought years ago but parameters to achieve the same results changed widely.
When I bought the monitor I reached 120cd/m2 at 20% of brightness, now I need 30% to reach the same brightness, I think that this is due to lamp usage.
the calibration parameters changed a lot also.
Every time I calibrate the monitor I wrote in a file the date and the calibration parameters, if I set the monitor with the same parameters I used to achieve 6500K-120cd/m2 two years ago now, I obtain a 5700K monitor with a 95cd/m2 of brightness.
This let you easily imagine that a colorimeter is a good toy for professional and non professional people.

At 6300K or lower and 6600K or higher my eyes starts to hate the monitor, I definitely need a colorimeter and a good monitor that let me calibrate it :D
 
I see! that was quite edifying. I'm looking for a monitor for pro color work (comic art) and currently looking at the new NEC P242W (waiting for NCX's review). You all talking about how 2560 is old hat though is giving me pause. Admittedly also its not wide gamut, but I'm not really sure thats necessary for comic work as it needs be right on paper AND on the screen.

To that point, I was under the impression that wide gamut distorts color unless you have end to end wide gamut capacity. That is to say, for any non CG/Photo practitioner it resulted in an inaccurate experience, even if it is accurate to wide gamut.
 
Does the ev2736w allow hardware calibration and have Eizo's Digital Uniformity Equalizer? I think those are the two things that pros may look for. If not doing professional work, that may not matter so much.
 
cnrhus said:
I see! that was quite edifying. I'm looking for a monitor for pro color work (comic art) and currently looking at the new NEC P242W (waiting for NCX's review). You all talking about how 2560 is old hat though is giving me pause. Admittedly also its not wide gamut, but I'm not really sure thats necessary for comic work as it needs be right on paper AND on the screen.

To that point, I was under the impression that wide gamut distorts color unless you have end to end wide gamut capacity. That is to say, for any non CG/Photo practitioner it resulted in an inaccurate experience, even if it is accurate to wide gamut.
Click to expand...

NEC just released (or announced, anyway) their wide gamut version of that 24"er, the PA242W-BK. It uses a GB-R LED-backlight and has 100% S-RGB coverage.

It may have a good S-RGB mode though, so you can keep an eye on it if interested. It is more expensive than the other model too. If it stinks at S-RGB mode, then it's probably not something you'd be interested in.
 
cnrhus said:
I see! that was quite edifying. I'm looking for a monitor for pro color work (comic art) and currently looking at the new NEC P242W (waiting for NCX's review). You all talking about how 2560 is old hat though is giving me pause. Admittedly also its not wide gamut, but I'm not really sure thats necessary for comic work as it needs be right on paper AND on the screen.

To that point, I was under the impression that wide gamut distorts color unless you have end to end wide gamut capacity. That is to say, for any non CG/Photo practitioner it resulted in an inaccurate experience, even if it is accurate to wide gamut.
Click to expand...

If you are lucky enought to meet "Denis" on this forum you can ask him.
Usually he reviews monitors on Prad.de, the best site for monitor reviews imho.
Wide gamut cons has been widely discussed previously, but sincerely I don't see many cons in wide gamut monitors for two reason, when you need color accuracy you are under a color managed software and in that case wide gamut is usually better, firefox is a color managed browser, windows is color managed (desktop also), ecc. ecc...
There are some good monitors that have sRGB color space hardware emulation and there is definitely no cons there.
 
@namelessme: AAARRRGHGHH!!! NOOO... now why did you have to go and tell me that haha. I can't wait so long for another review to be made. S-RGB mode is standard color space mode correct? What are the chances that it wasn't good? arrgh...*agonized with doubt*
@sblantipodi: Thanks again for the info sblantipodi. However to be perfectly honest, Those numbers are all sort of meaningless to me. I don't know for instance if 96.1% tonal variance is acceptable or well within industry acceptable parameters.
However what all this has done is shown that i do NEED a color calibrator. I thought i could skirt by without one, but I think its necessary.
 
cnrhus said:
@namelessme: AAARRRGHGHH!!! NOOO... now why did you have to go and tell me that haha. I can't wait so long for another review to be made. S-RGB mode is standard color space mode correct? What are the chances that it wasn't good? arrgh...*agonized with doubt*
@sblantipodi: Thanks again for the info sblantipodi. However to be perfectly honest, Those numbers are all sort of meaningless to me. I don't know for instance if 96.1% tonal variance is acceptable or well within industry acceptable parameters.
However what all this has done is shown that i do NEED a color calibrator. I thought i could skirt by without one, but I think its necessary.
Click to expand...

No test loss on UDACT test, it can't be that bad ;)
There are professional monitors that don't achieve the 100% test passed.

In any case I would not seem to rude but a good monitor without a colorimeter is a good monitor for six months if well factory calibrated.
After six months (or so) you got a completely different monitor because it changes drammatically over time.
 
I had no idea monitors changed over time! I always assumed that the colorimeter was designed to compensate for the light that is in the room from which its being seen (ex: northern neutral light vs south eastern morning light) and NOT because apparently the monitor doesnt really have a 100% idea about what its displaying! Interesting.
As to the question of buy/nobuy a colorimeter, it sounds like a wise investment and its a one time purchase that can (i assume) be used on multiple monitors. At any rate, thanks Sblantipodi, I don't mean to hijack your thread!
 
cnrhus said:
I had no idea monitors changed over time! I always assumed that the colorimeter was designed to compensate for the light that is in the room from which its being seen (ex: northern neutral light vs south eastern morning light) and NOT because apparently the monitor doesnt really have a 100% idea about what its displaying! Interesting.
As to the question of buy/nobuy a colorimeter, it sounds like a wise investment and its a one time purchase that can (i assume) be used on multiple monitors. At any rate, thanks Sblantipodi, I don't mean to hijack your thread!
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Monitor change widely over time, brightness change, white point change, all parameters change.

no problem, it's always a pleasure to see a thread hijacked when you add something interesting to it. :)
 
The NEC pa242w sounds like a great monitor. A little over a year ago I tried out the pa241w and the AG coating was not very flattering. So I did not end up keeping it and opted for the Asus pa246q, for now.
 
Techo said:
The NEC pa242w sounds like a great monitor. A little over a year ago I tried out the pa241w and the AG coating was not very flattering. So I did not end up keeping it and opted for the Asus pa246q, for now.
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PA242W vs Asus PA246Q? :D
is this a joke?
 
cnrhus said:
@namelessme: AAARRRGHGHH!!! NOOO... now why did you have to go and tell me that haha. I can't wait so long for another review to be made. S-RGB mode is standard color space mode correct? What are the chances that it wasn't good? arrgh...*agonized with doubt*
Click to expand...
For a monitor as expensive as it is, I sure would hope S-RGB mode would be decent.

It's only worth considering though if you think you may make use of wide gamut down the road, or its panel is noticeably better than the cheaper model. Such as if it has less glow, less crosshatching, or the backlight is more even ... that sort of thing. You'd probably have to get the spectraview version if you want the calibrator, which means it's getting really, really pricey. You could get the 27" EIzo for less.
 
Techo said:
The NEC pa242w sounds like a great monitor. A little over a year ago I tried out the pa241w and the AG coating was not very flattering. So I did not end up keeping it and opted for the Asus pa246q, for now.
Click to expand...

The PA246Q has the same AG and is essentially a feature stripped budget version of the PA241W
 
NCX said:
The PA246Q has the same AG and is essentially a feature stripped budget version of the PA241W
Click to expand...

Indeed, both use the P-IPS LG panel, yes. Other insides, no. Maybe I got used to the AG , as I didn't compare them side by side and had a day in between, but in any case it was slightly easier on the eyes. The Asus is not a dream to calibrate as the NEC was but if you need to support a wide gamut, it's accessible and an easier pill to swallow (because it's cheaper).

And no, I did not compare the Asus 246 to the NEC 242. That wouldn't be fair ;)
In any case the 246 isn't even the newest Asus, isn't that the PA249Q(24")?
 
I think all the newer GB-R LED models have a light coating, but easy enough to look at prad/tft central reviews to doublecheck. S-PVA was more of a med coating, rather than light (based on the one's I have seen), so the GB-R LED monitors may have an even lighter coating.
 
Namelessme said:
I think all the newer GB-R LED models have a light coating, but easy enough to look at prad/tft central reviews to doublecheck. S-PVA was more of a med coating, rather than light (based on the one's I have seen), so the GB-R LED monitors may have an even lighter coating.
Click to expand...

is there someone who can confirm?
I can't find a comparison on Prad, is there someone who seen the AG on SPVA and on GB LED?
 
=DEAD= (overclock.ru reviewer) takes macro photos of the pixels of all the monitors he reviews.

http://www.overclockers.ru/images/lab/2013/08/22/1/59_kristaleffect_big.jpg

All of the GB-LED back-lit monitors =DEAD= reviewed (U2713H, U2413H, PA249Q) have light coatings, the rest likely do as well.

I've used the U2713H and the NEC P242W, both of which have LG's new, grain free coating which is slightly less grainy than the super light coating Samsung puts on most of their new PLS panels, but also more reflective.

GB-LED monitors have worse IPS glow vs. S-IPS & PLS.

Some PLS panels have almost no glow
 
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