White House Weighs Options For Expanding Wiretap Laws

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What ever happened to the old days where the police would go to a judge with probable cause and / or evidence and the judge would issue a warrant? Wouldn't the same procedure work in this situation?

The Obama administration may seek to end a long-running debate over Internet wiretaps with proposed legislation that would enable law-enforcement agencies to tap into many types of Internet communications, U.S. officials with knowledge of the matter said. As described to Reuters by U.S. officials and outsiders, the proposal would encompass VoIP, chat and other Internet communication services.
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2011 happened. People traded security for freedom, and the ball's been rolling down the hill ever since.
 
AT&T started this YEARS ago when they were recording and selling(sic) phone call and txt info to alphabet agencies
After getting told multiple times to delete their data centers they got their lobby on and moved towards the new age of bribery and "lawfull compliance" (ie. please make an exception to the law for us to be immune to normal wiretapping laws and we will give you full access to all phone calls and txt)
But rather than changing the law, the secret authorizations simply allow the service provider to enter an agreement with the Justice Department ensuring that they won't be prosecuted.
Joing the swaray is Century Link and I am sure more will follow as they see how well it's working for these two
 
Gov't tards at it again. How about they use the processes that exist already instead of wasting tax payer time for this.
 
2001 is too simplistic, and really doesn't do justice to todays climate nor technological hurdles faced by the government. Thats just garbage recycled to make things easier to understand.

Simplified, there are more and more cyber threats, the largest of which being China, the smallest but potentially most dangerous being home grown. The government is doing what they have always done, particularly on the presidential level, which is to create an environment in which the effective defense of the country is possible.

I am not arguing that this is a positive move, just pointing out the reason behind it has little to do with the terror attacks of the early 2000s, and more to do with the rise in cyber warfare internationally.
 
Lith1um said:
Instead of adding more judges to handle an increased need to screen warrants, they just did away with the protections that have lasted since the signing of the Bill of Rights. The forefathers would roll in their fucking graves if they saw the carelessness with which we regard the past.

The Obligatory Post,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1P53wMbnsw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjhNZjanX9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n2m-X7OIuY
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Thanks for posting these. I love the judge and had not seen them.
 
There aren't many cops around that know how to do good honest police work, but that's by design. Who else would go after their own neighbors, friends and family by the simple order of their boss?

2001 did happen and is the result of a lot of this crap, you can't deny that. If you do, you are missing a lot of data. 2001 was just the catalyst that big brother was waiting for because it wouldn't have been possible to do in a fraction of the time otherwise. Big brother has always capitalized on events and emotions of the public because we are so very well conditioned.
 
2001 didn't happen to do this. This started back in the early 90's with echelon and carnivore under Clinton presidential order. Hell you could take this all the way back to FDR if you really wanted to, but I figured I'd keep it within at least a couple of decades.
 
Lith1um said:
Instead of adding more judges to handle an increased need to screen warrants, they just did away with the protections that have lasted since the signing of the Bill of Rights. The forefathers would roll in their fucking graves if they saw the carelessness with which we regard the past.

The Obligatory Post,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1P53wMbnsw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjhNZjanX9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n2m-X7OIuY
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Thanks for posting that. That was worth the 25 or so min break from work.
 
Methadras said:
2001 didn't happen to do this. This started back in the early 90's with echelon and carnivore under Clinton presidential order. Hell you could take this all the way back to FDR if you really wanted to, but I figured I'd keep it within at least a couple of decades.
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But it keeps getting worse.
 
Finally! I was starting to feel unsafe again without new laws being passed.
 
This makes you feel safe? Man,you sure are laxed. I need a policeman.... scratch that, police woman to hold my penis while I pee.
 
Meh, I'm okay with this. I really don't have anything worth hiding anyhow and I'd rather be safer from people doing stupid things. It's a trade off and seems worth it as long as it's government controlled and not being done freely by a private corporation without being directed to by the government.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Shouldn't the gov't be busy trying to further cover up Benghazi? :rolleyes:
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Well this is why you have warrantless wiretapping. Americans allow the media to talk about BS like Benghazi instead of stuff like complete loss of privacy, assembly, speech, etc. Oh and the fact that it doesn't matter if you are a Democrat, Republican, or yes even a Libertarian 90% of the US government (all branches) is corrupt, bought and paid for to the core.

Since the 2007/2008 meltdown we've had three really big financial scandals.

HSBC: They laundered money for the Mexican Drug Cartel. People sent to jail: 0

LIBOR: US and British regulators manipulated the global interest rate for the entire world for personal gain. People sent to jail: 0

Illegal Foreclosure Settlement: The Federal Reserve and the OCC allowed the banks to determine who and how much they would pay people for illegally foreclosing on their home. Once this was discovered during a congressional hearing by like two of the remaining senators who aren't completely bought off two of the banks chalked it up as a discrepancy as if they "accidentally" incorrectly gave 200,000 people only $300 for incorrectly foreclosing on them. People sent to jail: 0

Jeffery Skilling: Just reduced his sentence by 10 years by paying the government 40 million dollars. Where did he get the money from anyway? Oh by the crimes his company committed when they were sending the entire west cost through rolling-blackouts.

If people don't stop chasing squirrels the situation of losing your rights is only going to get worse.
 
kac77 said:
Well this is why you have warrantless wiretapping. Americans allow the media to talk about BS like Benghazi instead of stuff like complete loss of privacy, assembly, speech, etc.

(snip)

If people don't stop chasing squirrels the situation of losing your rights is only going to get worse.
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I'd argue they're all part of the same thing: abuse of government power and the attitude that they should be allowed to do what they want and have no accountability. Benghazi is a prime example of this.
 
GoldenTiger said:
I'd argue they're all part of the same thing: abuse of government power and the attitude that they should be allowed to do what they want and have no accountability. Benghazi is a prime example of this.
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In context it's a weak example. Do you even know how many Americans die on a regular basis at embassies? It's a regular occurrence and it's been happening in the middle east since we started having a presence there. It's absolutely nothing new.

But I guess we can keep focusing on 4 deaths at an embassy in the middle east. BTW We had 8 soldiers die in Afghanistan just last week. 37 since the beginning of 2013. Since we got Bin Laden no one has explained yet why we are still there. If you wanted to talk about abuse of government power that's a far better example since we are occupying a country for no damn reason at all.
 
kac77 said:
In context it's a weak example. Do you even know how many Americans die on a regular basis at embassies? It's a regular occurrence and it's been happening in the middle east since we started having a presence there. It's absolutely nothing new.

But I guess we can keep focusing on 4 deaths at an embassy in the middle east. BTW We had 8 soldiers die in Afghanistan just last week. 37 since the beginning of 2013. Since we got Bin Laden no one has explained yet why we are still there. If you wanted to talk about abuse of government power that's a far better example since we are occupying a country for no damn reason at all.
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We're still there because we got into a nation-building scenario again.
 
kac77 said:
In context it's a weak example. Do you even know how many Americans die on a regular basis at embassies? It's a regular occurrence and it's been happening in the middle east since we started having a presence there. It's absolutely nothing new.
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A massive cover-up trying to blame it on some youtube video with 20 views rather than terrorism to help protect the president's re-election campaign, and ordering nearby troops/forces not to go help, is definitely something new.
 
Not sure if anyone noticed the last 50 years, but there is a large army seeking world domination, who declared war on the entire world back in the 1970's.

We were so busy stopping the armed spread of communism, we put this other army on the back burner. Their goal is simple, force their laws on the world using weapons.

You basically have 2 choices now:

1) Surrender by pretending they don't exist.

2) Acknowledge it's a war, and act accordingly.

We are teetering in the middle somewhere.

The problem is the average American is gullible. They believe the propaganda that is being spewed by this army. So much so, that this Imperialist army can direct our Armed Forces to assist them. Kosovo, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc, and soon Syria. They know what we want to hear, and are playing us like a violin.
 
GoldenTiger said:
A massive cover-up trying to blame it on some youtube video with 20 views rather than terrorism to help protect the president's re-election campaign, and ordering nearby troops/forces not to go help, is definitely something new.
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As I said before if you think that a "massive cover up" involves You-Tube (seriously?) then the country is doomed. You are no longer capable to assessing real issues from BS ones.

Notice I've given real issues that would be far more damning to the President. Yet the media doesn't focus on them and neither does the opposition parties. This is by design.
 
Qinsp said:
Not sure if anyone noticed the last 50 years, but there is a large army seeking world domination, who declared war on the entire world back in the 1970's.

We were so busy stopping the armed spread of communism, we put this other army on the back burner. Their goal is simple, force their laws on the world using weapons.

You basically have 2 choices now:

1) Surrender by pretending they don't exist.

2) Acknowledge it's a war, and act accordingly.

We are teetering in the middle somewhere.

The problem is the average American is gullible. They believe the propaganda that is being spewed by this army. So much so, that this Imperialist army can direct our Armed Forces to assist them. Kosovo, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc, and soon Syria. They know what we want to hear, and are playing us like a violin.
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Dude, WTF are you talking about? If you expect not to be taken as a crazy, you need to be a tiny bit less vague.
 
TheFlosser said:
Dude, WTF are you talking about? If you expect not to be taken as a crazy, you need to be a tiny bit less vague.
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If you don't know what exactly he's talking about (saying) how can you just jump to the conclusion he's just crazy? What if you just didn't comprehend what he meant to say? Now I didn't fully grasp the ending of his post either but I also didn't just jump to saying he's "crazy" as to dismiss it either. A guy just fact checked bill Maher this weekend on his show saying very similar thoughts.

I want to guess you think this is just completely crazy.
Not sure if anyone noticed the last 50 years, but there is a large army seeking world domination, who declared war on the entire world back in the 1970's.
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I'd say you're not paying close enough attention if so. See what is actually being done, not just hear what is said is being done. The US GOV/military is out of control. That's crazy.
 
kac77 said:
As I said before if you think that a "massive cover up" involves You-Tube (seriously?) then the country is doomed. You are no longer capable to assessing real issues from BS ones.

Notice I've given real issues that would be far more damning to the President. Yet the media doesn't focus on them and neither does the opposition parties. This is by design.
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That's the whole point... Youtube wasn't even a part of the thing. Are you even paying attention to what I'm talking about?
 
TheFlosser said:
Dude, WTF are you talking about? If you expect not to be taken as a crazy, you need to be a tiny bit less vague.
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Armed Islamic Radicals.

They have attacked every continent except Antarctica so far.

More than 50 different countries have had serious assaults in the last two decades.

In America, we believe it's just us, and because we have troops in the middle-east.

Nope. It started BEFORE we had ground troops in the area, and we weren't the first or only targets.

Why did the Muslims attack Spain? Or Argentina? Or the Philippines? Etc?

But if you say the attackers are Muslims, you are a naive hate-monger according to the US press.

Truth is, the largest and most dangerous Imperialist army in the world is the Islamic Radicals. You won't hear the Press say that.

We either fight them, or we assist them. Make your choice.
 
Qinsp said:
Armed Islamic Radicals.

They have attacked every continent except Antarctica so far.

More than 50 different countries have had serious assaults in the last two decades.

In America, we believe it's just us, and because we have troops in the middle-east.

Nope. It started BEFORE we had ground troops in the area, and we weren't the first or only targets.

Why did the Muslims attack Spain? Or Argentina? Or the Philippines? Etc?

But if you say the attackers are Muslims, you are a naive hate-monger according to the US press.

Truth is, the largest and most dangerous Imperialist army in the world is the Islamic Radicals. You won't hear the Press say that.

We either fight them, or we assist them. Make your choice.
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Uh, yeah, I watch Fox News a good amount and they've said that plenty. So I do hear the press say it.
 
The US Gov't cannot fight them in our nation because we think they are just "misunderstood" and that they are attacking us because they have just cause.

The US Gov't isn't going to spy on you. You are only a target if you are Islamic. Too Fooking Bad.

If you are Muslim and don't want the US Gov't crawling up your ass, you should have helped when they were killing people all over the world. You did not. So reap what you sow.
 
Qinsp said:
You've heard Fox News say the Islamic Radicals are trying to take over the world?

Let's see your proof.
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I don't have a link, as I said I've watched it live on-air. They often refer to radical Islamists as a danger to global security, while being careful to exclude that statement from being misinterpretted to mean muslims. You can go google if you want, I'm not playing "grade-school debate class" here :).
 
Better yet, let's hear how attacking Spain was justified. This ought to be good.
 
? I don't know what you're going on about at this point...

I do agree though that most mainstream media in the US is absurd, however, be it from political correctness, fawning over and helping cover up mistakes made by the government, occasionally outright lying about facts/issues, or lying by omission/giving talking time to only a few stooge patsies that agree with them 100%. Oh, and spending most of their air-time talking about how Jimmy spilled his soda in the lunchroom and there's a lawsuit because some other kid's shirt got ruined.
 
GoldenTiger said:
I don't have a link, as I said I've watched it live on-air. They often refer to radical Islamists as a danger to global security, while being careful to exclude that statement from being misinterpretted to mean muslims. You can go google if you want, I'm not playing "grade-school debate class" here :).
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You don't have a link because no major press entity or our government itself has said that Islamic Imperialism is a threat to the world.

Nope. Not yet anyhow.
 
GoldenTiger said:
? I don't know what you're going on about at this point...

I do agree though that most mainstream media in the US is absurd, however, be it from political correctness, fawning over and helping cover up mistakes made by the government, occasionally outright lying about facts/issues, or lying by omission/giving talking time to only a few stooge patsies that agree with them 100%. Oh, and spending most of their air-time talking about how Jimmy spilled his soda in the lunchroom and there's a lawsuit because some other kid's shirt got ruined.
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Just to clarify I know what you are referring to, I just don't get why.
 
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