More Foxconn Suicides?

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Just when you thought the suicide nets were actually working, this stuff starts happening again. What the hell is wrong with this place? :(

Foxconn, the manufacturing arm of the Taiwanese Hon Hai Precision Industrial Co is once again caught in the center of media attention in China. Over the weekend reports appeared saying that two workers had jumped off a building at Foxconn's Shenzhen plant.
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This "jumping" appears the only way you can leave Foxconn. As places over there tend to force you to work with little pay. So you either jump off a building or work 24-7 and make hardly anything. Sad people have to do this to leave a work place.
 
One of those reasons I make a concerted effort not to buy anything from Foxconn . . . of course not buying anything from the Apple-owned parts is easy enough (especially since their's is the worst and the part that tends to not treat their workers like human beings).
 
Nothing is wrong with the place. Consider two things:

  • They employ tens of thousands of people. Or hundreds? Difficult not to be affected by statistics when you get to those numbers.
  • Their suicide rate is actually below China's national average. (At least it was the last time this sensationalized issue was all over the media.)
 
amorpheus said:
Nothing is wrong with the place. Consider two things:

  • They employ tens of thousands of people. Or hundreds? Difficult not to be affected by statistics when you get to those numbers.
  • Their suicide rate is actually below China's national average. (At least it was the last time this sensationalized issue was all over the media.)
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What this guy said ^
 
KILLER_K said:
This "jumping" appears the only way you can leave Foxconn. As places over there tend to force you to work with little pay. So you either jump off a building or work 24-7 and make hardly anything. Sad people have to do this to leave a work place.
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They make a lot more money working for Foxconn than the average Chinese farmer does and have the ability to quit if they wish. They're not captive employees that are all chained down and can't simply walk out if they decide to leave.
 
For every employee that kills themselves they should have a rate percentage increase for the other workers wages since they are doing the work of the deceased.
 
So by your understanding they can just quit correct? Then why are they jumping off of buildings then where they work? Why not just to it at a random place? If you are going to kill yourself, my choice wouldn't be where I work. There is obviously something bad wrong there.


CreepyUncleGoogle said:
They make a lot more money working for Foxconn than the average Chinese farmer does and have the ability to quit if they wish. They're not captive employees that are all chained down and can't simply walk out if they decide to leave.
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amorpheus said:
Nothing is wrong with the place. Consider two things:

  • They employ tens of thousands of people. Or hundreds? Difficult not to be affected by statistics when you get to those numbers.
  • Their suicide rate is actually below China's national average. (At least it was the last time this sensationalized issue was all over the media.)
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If you consider sweatshops that are pretty close to slavery to be "employment" then sure.

Hence the need for suicide nets that other industries do not need? Right.
 
I think people place too much blame on the suicides on Foxconn.

These people might've been depressed before entering employment, or they would've committed suicide elsewhere if they could. A lot of suicides are also cries for help, so they want attention. These people need help, as do all creatures suffering from depression and other mental illnesses. I just think to solely blame the company they work for is a little bit dangerous.

Do we start blaming our company we personally work for when we become depressed and suicidal? Yes, it's true that many of us feel trapped working for a certain company in order to survive and put food on the table, and it's apparently much worse in China then the US, for example, but there are other issues at play here then the work place, I think.

Don't just blame Foxconn or any employer, try to look at the bigger picture.

My heart goes out to all of you who have lost someone due to depression. It's no joke. Take care and stay healthy, it's worth the effort... and let's try to help each other out a bit more with compassion and respect.
 
I also think that to just "shut down" foxconn is not a solution, because the problems there will simply be shifted elsewhere. Go back to the source and figure out what enables these kind of conditions, then spend your effort there instead? Just an idea...
 
One cited source said that the workers climbed up because they were worried about their jobs. Foxconn has seen a decline in orders since the first few months of this year. Due to the decline the company has started using various methods to get rid of workers.
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Uh..

Near slavery? This guy was afraid he was going to get fired because orders have been slowing.. so what does he do? Jump of the building..

While I don't disagree that the working conditions could be better, these people are not FORCED to be there. They are paid much better than your avg worker in China, and yes - not receiving that pay could threaten their way of life, but its hardly the depiction that the media wants you to think.
 
KILLER_K said:
So by your understanding they can just quit correct? Then why are they jumping off of buildings then where they work? Why not just to it at a random place? If you are going to kill yourself, my choice wouldn't be where I work. There is obviously something bad wrong there.
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They do live and work in the same facilities. Many of Foxconn's employees live on-site using company supplied dorms and, therefore, would be killing themselves at the Shenzhen plant if they were killing themselves at home. That minor point aside though, yet, they can quit if they don't like working there. Some of them are killing themselves because they can't see a way out, but you could argue that the same thing happens to college students in the United States with alarming frequency as well. Regardless of the place, sometimes people aren't capable of making sensible decisions. That doesn't speak poorly of Foxconn or of the University of Fill-in-the-blank-city/state.
 
Apple is just trying to reduce their carbon footprint ;)
 
Phishy714 said:
Uh..

Near slavery? This guy was afraid he was going to get fired because orders have been slowing.. so what does he do? Jump of the building..

While I don't disagree that the working conditions could be better, these people are not FORCED to be there. They are paid much better than your avg worker in China, and yes - not receiving that pay could threaten their way of life, but its hardly the depiction that the media wants you to think.
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If you say so.
 
Steve said:
Please name another company (anywhere on the planet) with so many suicides they had to install SUICIDE NETS.


We eagerly await your response.
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What other companies are this big that house their workers? I'm not saying you are wrong, just wondering, because that would be a better comparison.
 
Did anyone actually believe "suicide nets" would work? They're not fixing the problem (poor working conditions), they're just tacking on cheap stopgaps to prevent bad PR.
 
KILLER_K said:
So by your understanding they can just quit correct? Then why are they jumping off of buildings then where they work? Why not just to it at a random place? If you are going to kill yourself, my choice wouldn't be where I work. There is obviously something bad wrong there.
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Why do people kill themselves in the US? Depression more than anything.

From the Foxconn wikipedia page...
The suicide rate at Foxconn during the suicide spate remained lower than that of the general Chinese population[8] as well as all 50 states in the United States.
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Youn said:
What other companies are this big that house their workers? I'm not saying you are wrong, just wondering, because that would be a better comparison.
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Remember how do they house them.

8 people per room at 17 bucks a month each, when the hourly wage is 1.17 bucks an hour, so 14hours of work and a bit more, seems cheap but with those living conditions...

They work in 12h shifts with two breaks of 1h, no overtime pay, six days a week... how mind numbingly brutal must be that on a person?

Also let's not forget that this all started to really draw attention with the case of the worker that committed suicide after being "allegedly" beaten by Foxconn employees and his living quarters searched because of a lost iPhone prototype on 2010.
 
Revdarian said:
8 people per room at 17 bucks a month each, when the hourly wage is 1.17 bucks an hour, so 14hours of work and a bit more, seems cheap but with those living conditions...
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I personally know a few people in a similar situation. Of course they would prefer to make more money and live a bit more comfortably.
They work in 12h shifts with two breaks of 1h, no overtime pay, six days a week... how mind numbingly brutal must be that on a person?
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Sounds like the average worker in US, to be honest. Some folks even work more then that, and are just barely scrapping by.

I get what you are saying though, and am not saying conditions aren't bad. But IMO you are still looking at the situation in a narrow way. More important questions might be: What enables this in the first place and What can we do to help the situation?
 
Damn, I bet that place has some... issues by now. I wouldn't walk around there at night.

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Youn said:
Sounds like the average worker in US, to be honest. Some folks even work more then that, and are just barely scrapping by.
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Wait, what?


Show me an average place in the US of A that has 12h shifts, no overtime, 6 days a week.
 
Revdarian said:
Wait, what?


Show me an average place in the US of A that has 12h shifts, no overtime, 6 days a week.
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police? nah, thats 10 hour days. military were my friends had to do 2 shifts, 18 hour days, for 6 months in Japan.
 
Being deployed you are not in the US of A ;-)

And actually being in the military has some benefits for the grueling work, but you know what? it also has quite some high Suicide Rates, so that doesn't defeat the point that such level of stress are terrible for the human mind.
 
Revdarian said:
Wait, what?


Show me an average place in the US of A that has 12h shifts, no overtime, 6 days a week.
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Not one particular place, but many lower and lower-middle class workers have two jobs. One friend of mine works at a popular furniture store and also another menial job to try and make ends meet and help family. She gets regularly 30 minutes of break time for "food" in a 14 hour period, and sometimes gets payed overtime but not always. Folks I work at my place often work 16 shifts with no overtime, and 7 days a week. I work in the architectural industry, and the pay is better, but it's nearly impossible to do less work at times because you have to make a deadline otherwise all the people depending on you will suffer, including construction workers who tend to get the biggest "shaft" out of everyone.

Working hard with little to no reward is really not that uncommon in many places in the world, and isn't necessarily due to a particular place of work. There are more underlying reasons for all of this. Some people here get it, while others continue to just place blame.

Again, I'm not saying Foxconn shouldn't try to improve conditions, but we can also take a bit more responsibility for it too.
 
Explain to me why on earth you are trying to compare United States to China for? Makes perfect sense right? You act like china mirrors what our country does.

Tudz said:
Why do people kill themselves in the US? Depression more than anything.

From the Foxconn wikipedia page...
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KILLER_K said:
Explain to me why on earth you are trying to compare United States to China for? Makes perfect sense right? You act like china mirrors what our country does.
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Human brains are pretty similar no matter what nation they're located.
 
Steve said:
Not a company but I'll give you that one. BTW, you do know where the city council got the idea for the nets...right? ;)

Anyhow, I don't buy into the whole 15 student suicides in 20+ years in the U.S. is a cause for alarm but 25 in two years at Foxconn is no biggy (lower than the national rate argument).
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Doesn't Foxconn employ over a million people? 12.5 per year out of a million is a lot lower than most national averages. China's national rate in 2011 was 22.23 per 100,000 people. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate) If Foxconn was keeping with the national average they would have had 222.3 suicides in their workforce.

People killing themselves is a serious matter that shouldn't ever be ignored, but Foxconn's rates are exceptionally low given the number of employees in the company.
 
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