Surface sales at 1.5 million, 400k for Pro alone

No matter how you paint the picture.. 8/Surface and RT is a failure.
 
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heatlesssun said:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...let-is-said-to-fall-short-of-predictions.html

So the RT isn't doing that well but if the 400k number is correct for the Pro that would be a good bit more than I would have thought. However if the margins on the RT are in the 40% or so range that has been reported, the RT is making more money for Microsoft.
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wait are you saying MS is making a 40% profit on the RT? wtf are they thinking selling them that high then when everyone says theyre overpriced?
 
Wrench00 said:
No matter how you paint the picture.. 8/Surface and RT is a failure.
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Do you just follow all win8/surface posts to just post useless crap like this? We get it, you think win8 sucks.... you don't need to add your useless opinion to every effing thread.
 
Biznatch said:
Do you just follow all win8/surface posts to just post useless crap like this? We get it, you think win8 sucks.... you don't need to add your useless opinion to every effing thread.
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Lol... look at his previous 100 posts. Almost all of them mention Win 8 being a failure in some way or another.
 
heatlesssun said:
Microsoft has spent about $100 million a month promoting Surface? Sure.
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someone posted that in the other thread too. they began advertising before it came out though. and there are multiple shows (i know arrow is one) where they put in in wherever they can. the problem is, just inserting your product in a show or movie works for apple because everyone knows what an ipad is and what it does. apple is just reminding them that they dont haveone yet and therefor they arent cool.

no one knows that surface pro is a full ultrabook in a tablet form factor. all they see is someone sititng down at a tablet to surf the web, which they can do on their $200 kindle fires and $400 ipads already. microsoft needs to stop the ineffective marketing thats all fancy eye-catching visuals and people dancing and smiling and start showing what surface pro can do that an ipad cant. its been working pretty well for samsung with the GSIII vs iphone5 battle.
 
wow this keyboard sucks. i feel like half the time i press a key it doesnt register, and i dont always catch it and fix it. :) also wanted to add that i am not confirming or supporting that number for advertising budge, i have no idea what it is. i just think its not too farfetched for how much theyve been trying to get the word out on it.
 
Biznatch said:
Do you just follow all win8/surface posts to just post useless crap like this? We get it, you think win8 sucks.... you don't need to add your useless opinion to every effing thread.
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You have to ask your self a question. If its so great why is it selling so poorly?


Its not that I think it sucks. I know it sucks, and the rest of the world seems to be agreement about the disaster that 8 is.
Don't get me wrong I think there is some great improvements but the negatives far outweigh the positive aspects of the platform.
 
ekuest said:
someone posted that in the other thread too. they began advertising before it came out though. and there are multiple shows (i know arrow is one) where they put in in wherever they can. the problem is, just inserting your product in a show or movie works for apple because everyone knows what an ipad is and what it does. apple is just reminding them that they dont haveone yet and therefor they arent cool.
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I'm simply saying I don't think they've spent $400 million to date. And the expensive TV ads really didn't start until last October.
 
heatlesssun said:
I'm simply saying I don't think they've spent $400 million to date. And the expensive TV ads really didn't start until last October.
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You would be surprised how expensive ads are. Its not like they are just advertising in the US, this is global. Of course most of its probably spent in the USA nonetheless 400million seems like a pretty small budget.
 
Wrench00 said:
You have to ask your self a question. If its so great why is it selling so poorly?


Its not that I think it sucks. I know it sucks, and the rest of the world seems to be agreement about the disaster that 8 is.
Don't get me wrong I think there is some great improvements but the negatives far outweigh the positive aspects of the platform.
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Like I Said, we Know what you think. You can stop spamming it now... It's filling up the Thread with your useless opinion and contributes absolutely nothing. I'm surprised you haven't been warned by a mod yet. You are just filling your post count with fluff.

You can save your response. I forgot about the ignore list, which just got a new member. :)
 
Biznatch said:
Like I Said, we Know what you think. You can stop spamming it now... It's filling up the Thread with your useless opinion and contributes absolutely nothing. I'm surprised you haven't been warned by a mod yet. You are just filling your post count with fluff.

You can save your response. I forgot about the ignore list, which just got a new member. :)
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how do you do that?
 
Biznatch said:
Like I Said, we Know what you think. You can stop spamming it now... It's filling up the Thread with your useless opinion and contributes absolutely nothing. I'm surprised you haven't been warned by a mod yet. You are just filling your post count with fluff.

You can save your response. I forgot about the ignore list, which just got a new member. :)
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If nobody posted opinions, then there would be no forum, good or bad.

8 had good and bad, that's what the good 3rd party software was meant for. :)
 
Hagrid said:
If nobody posted opinions, then there would be no forum, good or bad.

8 had good and bad, that's what the good 3rd party software was meant for. :)
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Of course. It's just silly to state extremes like "I know it sucks." or "Everyone agrees with me that it sucks." Or calling Windows 8 a failure when it's now the 4th most widely deployed desktop OS version on the planet. If Windows 8 sucks, then gee, every desktop Linux distro must really suck since in a matter of months Windows 8 easily surpassed all desktop Linux distros in market share.

Obviously saying Linux sucks because it was easily surpassed by Windows 8 in market share is a specious and simplistic argument.
 
Surface pro is a NICE setup and Win 8 fits perfectly on that device. I am not a big fan of 8 on desktop due to the UI
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
I am not a big fan of 8 on desktop due to the UI
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Obviously this is an issue that Microsoft needs to address in Windows 8. I do see where people are coming from with dislike of Windows 8 on the desktop but it's simply not the experience I'm having. At this point with the exception of using a Surround display, I'd much rather use Windows 8 on a conventional desktop or laptop especially when using some type of touch device like a track pad or touch mouse with gestures. I don't know why so many seem to have issues with gestures, they are often much faster than pointing a click a mouse. using a gesture to bring up the Start Screen and having it right there to see tiles and launch apps just feels so much more modern than a tiny hierarchal list of static links. Much needs to be done to make the Start Screen more manageable and customizable but the Start Menu just feels dated to me now.
 
heatlesssun said:
Obviously this is an issue that Microsoft needs to address in Windows 8. I do see where people are coming from with dislike of Windows 8 on the desktop but it's simply not the experience I'm having. At this point with the exception of using a Surround display, I'd much rather use Windows 8 on a conventional desktop or laptop especially when using some type of touch device like a track pad or touch mouse with gestures. I don't know why so many seem to have issues with gestures, they are often much faster than pointing a click a mouse. using a gesture to bring up the Start Screen and having it right there to see tiles and launch apps just feels so much more modern than a tiny hierarchal list of static links. Much needs to be done to make the Start Screen more manageable and customizable but the Start Menu just feels dated to me now.
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Because using a touchpad is the same as using a mouse, you have to move finger, mouse, hand, whatever.

I find the mouse much easier to use on a laptop then the touchpad. People like different things. The start menu works fine for me, never had any issues.
I put things that I use a lot on the desktop for 1 click use, or on the taskbar. Easy!
 
heatlesssun said:
Obviously this is an issue that Microsoft needs to address in Windows 8. I do see where people are coming from with dislike of Windows 8 on the desktop but it's simply not the experience I'm having. At this point with the exception of using a Surround display, I'd much rather use Windows 8 on a conventional desktop or laptop especially when using some type of touch device like a track pad or touch mouse with gestures. I don't know why so many seem to have issues with gestures, they are often much faster than pointing a click a mouse. using a gesture to bring up the Start Screen and having it right there to see tiles and launch apps just feels so much more modern than a tiny hierarchal list of static links. Much needs to be done to make the Start Screen more manageable and customizable but the Start Menu just feels dated to me now.
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The touch part of the UI has no relevance apart from the start screen - Metro apps were not meant for desktop users, and the legacy desktop doesn't benefit from touch.

If MS had thought of a better way to integrate the 2 worlds, it could e been a much better OS.
 
MrCrispy said:
The touch part of the UI has no relevance apart from the start screen - Metro apps were not meant for desktop users, and the legacy desktop doesn't benefit from touch.

If MS had thought of a better way to integrate the 2 worlds, it could e been a much better OS.
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If MS would have just left the start menu alone on the desktop; we would not even be having this discussion.
 
Love mine still.

I think it is retarded for people to judge if it is a failure for MS when you are completely guessing on business costs/profits.
 
MrCrispy said:
The touch part of the UI has no relevance apart from the start screen - Metro apps were not meant for desktop users, and the legacy desktop doesn't benefit from touch.

If MS had thought of a better way to integrate the 2 worlds, it could e been a much better OS.
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I agree that the integration of Metro and the desktop needs to be improved. I use some Metro apps on the desktop with keyboards and mice and desktop apps on tablets with pen and touch all of the time. Things like content readers, video players and games tend to be run full screen and there is quite a lot that can be done effectively on the desktop with touch only and adding a pen expands what can be done away from a mouse and keyboard.


YeuEmMaiMai said:
If MS would have just left the start menu alone on the desktop; we would not even be having this discussion.
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Perhaps for now at least Microsoft should have done something like this but long term I don't see how clinging to a 20 year old UI is the way to go when the traditional desktop is relative decline as tablets emerge.
 
heatlesssun said:
I agree that the integration of Metro and the desktop needs to be improved. I use some Metro apps on the desktop with keyboards and mice and desktop apps on tablets with pen and touch all of the time. Things like content readers, video players and games tend to be run full screen and there is quite a lot that can be done effectively on the desktop with touch only and adding a pen expands what can be done away from a mouse and keyboard.




Perhaps for now at least Microsoft should have done something like this but long term I don't see how clinging to a 20 year old UI is the way to go when the traditional desktop is relative decline as tablets emerge.
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Sometimes I have to wonder if you are paid by MS... man you shouldn't even bother driving a car or motorcycle, flying, using a telephone, etc. after, all who wants to cling to 100 year old technology?

Do you see how incredibly ignorant your argument is?
 
heatlesssun said:
Or calling Windows 8 a failure when it's now the 4th most widely deployed desktop OS version on the planet.
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... speaking of a specious argument. It's not hard to get to this point when 1) Windows is the primary OS included on desktop computers and 2) You have no option to downgrade to Windows 7, per Microsoft.

You're passion for Windows 8 is fine, we "get it" that you like the OS. But the same type of arguments you make towards the people who dislike 8 can easily be applied directly to your subjective opinion of 8. As much as they are unwilling to see the upside of 8, I don't really believe you are willing to see the downside. You say you do, but I don't think you really do, as many of your replies to 8 bashing conclude with a list of great things about the OS. How is that any different than the people who bash it with list of things they don't like? You pipe in to defend 8 at a similar rate that they pop in to bash it.

You and a couple other guys here have attitude's that are the same as the bashers, you're just polarized differently in your opinion.
 
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YeuEmMaiMai said:
Sometimes I have to wonder if you are paid by MS... man you shouldn't even bother driving a car or motorcycle, flying, using a telephone, etc. after, all who wants to cling to 100 year old technology?

Do you see how incredibly STUPID your argument is?
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There's simply no growth in the traditional desktop/laptop market and a common consensus as to why that is has to do with the growth of tablets and smart phones. Perhaps Microsoft should have added a Metro off switch but that option is clearly targeted at a already no to low growth market and that's the reason why I understand Microsoft not going that route particularly if 3rd parties are willing to support that option.

I've stated many times that Windows 8 has it's UI issues and pointed out things that need to be improved for better desktop operation, like Metro's lack of support for multiple monitors and so forth. But I do use Windows 8 on a number of devices daily and while there are things that need to be improved it definitely works better in my experience with the default UI even on a keyboard and mouse driven desktop than many are saying here.

I just think it makes more sense for Microsoft to improve on the UI elements and work on improving desktop integration and support than to continue to fall back on a UI that doesn't support the high growth devices and input types of today.
 
bigdogchris said:
... speaking of a specious argument. It's not hard to get to this point when 1) Windows is the primary OS included on desktop computers and 2) You have no option to downgrade to Windows 7, per Microsoft.
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Missing the context here:

heatlesssun said:
Of course. It's just silly to state extremes like "I know it sucks." or "Everyone agrees with me that it sucks." Or calling Windows 8 a failure when it's now the 4th most widely deployed desktop OS version on the planet. If Windows 8 sucks, then gee, every desktop Linux distro must really suck since in a matter of months Windows 8 easily surpassed all desktop Linux distros in market share.

Obviously saying Linux sucks because it was easily surpassed by Windows 8 in market share is a specious and simplistic argument.
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It's kind of difficult to call a version of Windows either a success of failure with only five months in. Let's not forget the VERY rough start that Windows XP had related to security. I guess one could look at adoption rates and say that is a failure, but again that's assuming that nothing is going to change and that Microsoft is just going to sit on Windows 8 until 2015 which doesn't seem to be the case.

Still a Windows "failure" beats everything else on the desktop which after all the years of anti-trust issues and the supposed rise of Macs and Linux is amazing.


bigdogchris said:
You're passion for Windows 8 is fine, we "get it" that you like the OS. But the same type of arguments you make towards the people who dislike 8 can easily be applied directly to your subjective opinion of 8. As much as they are unwilling to see the upside of 8, I don't really believe you are willing to see the downside. You say you do, but I don't think you really do, as many of your replies to 8 bashing conclude with a list of great things about the OS. How is that any different than the people who bash it with list of things they don't like? You pipe in to defend 8 at a similar rate that they pop in to bash it.

You and a couple other guys here have attitude's that are the same as the bashers, you're just polarized differently in your opinion.
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It's not just a matter of liking Windows 8 but using it on different from factors and with different input methods. I've long said that if one is only interested in desktop apps and keyboard and mouse only operation that I can understand not liking the new UI and seeing it only as change for change's sake little or no benefit to desktop users.

But since I use Windows 8 on tablets with touch and on desktops with keyboards and mice I have a different perspective than many. Using Windows 7 on a desktop avails me of nothing that isn't in Windows 8 and 7 lacks the touch capabilities of 8. I get the all what 7 has to offer on the desktop in terms of applications with keyboard and mouse operation as usual with much better options away form keyboards and mice. So this is just how it has worked out day to day for me. Windows 8 has it's issues and Metro/desktop integration needs to be improved along with more customization of the Start Screen, etc. Since I use 8 everyday I may understand its faults better than even the most ardent opponent. And by the same token I also see it's strengths.

I simply like what I get by have the same basic set of capabilities across devices. I can leverage the same apps, file system and data without any effort. I can use desktop apps on tablets, tablet apps on the desktop, touch here, mice and keyboard there, whatever I need for the situation. Very flexible if not as elegant as it needs to be.
 
i like w8, it is jarring at first to go to metro and back out a lot but with a touch screen tablet, desktop or notebook the metro interfaces adds value to the machine.

I just game my lenovo x230t to my 7 year old cousin to use and he picked it up and was playing fruit ninja on it without any help from me....

this is something my non touch enable x220 with windows 7 could not accomplish.

I enjoy using IE in metro and playing games... then being able to go back to the desktop and use word, pp, onenote, pdf readers, dreamweaver and such and get actual work done...

is it useful to everyone, perhaps not... but it does a good job for a v1 product IMO
 
heatlesssun said:
Missing the context here:



It's kind of difficult to call a version of Windows either a success of failure with only five months in. Let's not forget the VERY rough start that Windows XP had related to security. I guess one could look at adoption rates and say that is a failure, but again that's assuming that nothing is going to change and that Microsoft is just going to sit on Windows 8 until 2015 which doesn't seem to be the case.

Still a Windows "failure" beats everything else on the desktop which after all the years of anti-trust issues and the supposed rise of Macs and Linux is amazing.




It's not just a matter of liking Windows 8 but using it on different from factors and with different input methods. I've long said that if one is only interested in desktop apps and keyboard and mouse only operation that I can understand not liking the new UI and seeing it only as change for change's sake little or no benefit to desktop users.

But since I use Windows 8 on tablets with touch and on desktops with keyboards and mice I have a different perspective than many. Using Windows 7 on a desktop avails me of nothing that isn't in Windows 8 and 7 lacks the touch capabilities of 8. I get the all what 7 has to offer on the desktop in terms of applications with keyboard and mouse operation as usual with much better options away form keyboards and mice. So this is just how it has worked out day to day for me. Windows 8 has it's issues and Metro/desktop integration needs to be improved along with more customization of the Start Screen, etc. Since I use 8 everyday I may understand its faults better than even the most ardent opponent. And by the same token I also see it's strengths.

I simply like what I get by have the same basic set of capabilities across devices. I can leverage the same apps, file system and data without any effort. I can use desktop apps on tablets, tablet apps on the desktop, touch here, mice and keyboard there, whatever I need for the situation. Very flexible if not as elegant as it needs to be.
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Metro integration may need improvements, but it should also be an option for people who don't want/need it.
 
Going to defend heatless here, I don't think the new direction of Metro start menu needs to be abandoned, and the old way of doing things is not always better. The problem is there was no effort made to make Win 8 a consistent OS, it is purely designed for tablets and to hell with traditional desktop users because they are a forgotten market according to MS.

I have a Surface, even on that it makes zero sense to have traditional desktop which is terrible to use without a keyboard, and to have it take up so much space on the device when it can't even run x86 apps is a disaster. Win 8 is full of stupid decisions like this - why didn't they combine the metro task switcher with the traditional one? My laptop drivers now bring up the charms and task bar using the trackpad, but it's totally useless in desktop mode and an annoyance. Instead it could have been so much more useful. Same goes for Charms bar, the share option is useless.

I have also been using Win 8 on my main pc and laptop and now have touch devices too. Having touch really doesn't improve things that much IMO since it does nothing to solve the basic design flaws of a lack of vision and consistency. All it does is make it easier to launch certain UI elements.

All people want is an option to switch all this crap off until its better integrated. The OS is a half baked mess and we have to wait until Blue for a proper version.
 
MrCrispy said:
Going to defend heatless here, I don't think the new direction of Metro start menu needs to be abandoned, and the old way of doing things is not always better. The problem is there was no effort made to make Win 8 a consistent OS, it is purely designed for tablets and to hell with traditional desktop users because they are a forgotten market according to MS.

I have a Surface, even on that it makes zero sense to have traditional desktop which is terrible to use without a keyboard, and to have it take up so much space on the device when it can't even run x86 apps is a disaster. Win 8 is full of stupid decisions like this - why didn't they combine the metro task switcher with the traditional one? My laptop drivers now bring up the charms and task bar using the trackpad, but it's totally useless in desktop mode and an annoyance. Instead it could have been so much more useful. Same goes for Charms bar, the share option is useless.

I have also been using Win 8 on my main pc and laptop and now have touch devices too. Having touch really doesn't improve things that much IMO since it does nothing to solve the basic design flaws of a lack of vision and consistency. All it does is make it easier to launch certain UI elements.

All people want is an option to switch all this crap off until its better integrated. The OS is a half baked mess and we have to wait until Blue for a proper version.
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That's why when you use a tablet that has a touch interface, you would use... touch pad.
On a desktop you would use.....a mouse and keyboard.

I think it would be nice for people to have a choice. I like win 8, but don't want anything metro. Not hard to understand that some people want a choice.

Though I would rather use a touchpad on the touch device as I hate touching my screen.
 
Hagrid said:
I think it would be nice for people to have a choice. I like win 8, but don't want anything metro. Not hard to understand that some people want a choice.
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And the choice is there provided by 3rd parties. 3rd party support of Windows has been the key to its success. I find it interesting that there are more Start Menu type options for Windows 8 than in any previous version of Windows but yet somehow that's become no choice.
 
heatlesssun said:
And the choice is there provided by 3rd parties. 3rd party support of Windows has been the key to its success. I find it interesting that there are more Start Menu type options for Windows 8 than in any previous version of Windows but yet somehow that's become no choice.
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Yeah, just pathetic that 3rd parties had to make something that MS could of easily done. But it gives those 3rd party jobs I guess. :)
 
heatlesssun said:
Missing the context here:
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A statement that Windows 8 is the "4th most widely deployed desktop OS version on the planet" would be taken as a great thing if you didn't know the truth. When you break this down to why that is the 4th most, you realize it's because Microsoft forces 8 to you on new PC's. Most users can't downgrade even if they want to.

I also think it's great that you appreciate the unified OS approach as that's what Microsoft was hoping for. I think you have to attach a pro and con to that though. There may be benefits to a common interface but there are also many negatives. Currently the people negatively affected vastly outweigh the people positively affected. Wouldn't it of been a better choice for Microsoft make the transition when more people would benefit than be impaired? Right now for most people its hard to see the benefit of a common UI. That's a poor move for Microsoft.

MrCrispy said:
Going to defend heatless here, I don't think the new direction of Metro start menu needs to be abandoned, and the old way of doing things is not always better. The problem is there was no effort made to make Win 8 a consistent OS, it is purely designed for tablets and to hell with traditional desktop users because they are a forgotten market according to MS.
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I completely agree that the Start Menu isn't going to be around forever. Microsoft did not handle the transition as well as they probably hoped.

Think of how the Windows 95 Start Menu evolved over the years into the Windows 7 Start Menu. That was a gradual change and the changes that were made were for the better. Microsoft would of been better off translating the Windows 7 Start Menu to a more common toned Start Screen over time, giving opportunity for people to learn it at their own rate and to give developers time to make improvements. But rather than doing that, they just chopped it out and threw you into the deep end. No one wants to learn to swim that way.
 
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bigdogchris said:
A statement that Windows 8 is the "4th most widely deployed desktop OS version on the planet" would be taken as a great thing if you didn't know the truth. When you break this down to why that is the 4th most, you realize it's because Microsoft forces 8 to you on new PC's. Most users can't downgrade even if they want to.
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However this is no different from prior versions of Windows, 7 was also forced on people though few complained about that particular version being forced. This is simply a market fact that makes it difficult at least currently for a version of Windows actually fail from a commercial standpoint.
 
heatlesssun said:
However this is no different from prior versions of Windows, 7 was also forced on people though few complained about that particular version being forced. This is simply a market fact that makes it difficult at least currently for a version of Windows actually fail from a commercial standpoint.
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The difference is the majority of people actually wanted to upgrade to Windows 7 ...
 
MrCrispy pretty much nailed it, Windows 8 is a half-baked product.

I don't deny it has a lot of great features and improvements over 7, but the fact of the matter is Microsoft dropped the ball on easing the transition from the traditional start menu to Metro/Modern. People don't like change, and Microsoft has seemingly forgotten this.

Sure, Windows 8 might be pretty awesome under-the-hood with its speediness and whatnot, but the everyday consumer doesn't see that. Instead, they see a UI that is far different than what they're use to and they're going to avoid it at all costs.
 
heatlesssun said:
But the thing is most Windows users DON'T upgrade, not even to 7. How long did it take for 7 to surpass XP in market share?
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The acceptance of Windows 7 was almost unanimous amongst the enthusiast community, Windows PC sales to average users were excellent throughout the 7 life cycle, and now most businesses run Windows 7. So yes, people wanted Windows 7. People do not want Windows 8, and the trends show it's not being accepted and that people are not willing to upgrade.

Even the 1.5 Million Surface sales are pathetic when you compare it to what Apple sells, which is the market Microsoft wants. Then you consider the advertising Microsoft has to do to get those sales, I don't see how Microsoft is making money on it. Just like over 5 years of losses with XBOX 360, Microsoft supports their "pet projects" with revenue from their business licensing (which is one of their few areas that are profitable). The business licensing users happen to be some of the people against their latest OS. What kind of company does something like to their customers who provide the majority of revenue? They must have some serious division amongst their leadership to try and pull off such a ridiculous move.

By the way, commercials with people dancing are stupid and were done a decade ago by Apple. What does a guy break dancing on a table have to do with a tablet computer anyways?
 
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