Supreme Court Throws Out NSA Surveillance Case

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The U.S. Supreme Court has rejected a lawsuit that challenged the National Security Agency's surveillance program.

A majority of the justices ruled (PDF) that the lawsuit, brought by human rights advocates and journalists who believed their electronic communications sent abroad would be intercepted, was "too speculative" to proceed based on fears of "hypothetical future harm."
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I'm in the UK and we get screwed anyway, but to see a country that broke away from us, created on certain principles go to this makes me sad (I'm am not keen at all on the US, yet I still feel this way)
 
In principle I do agree with SCOTUS on this one ... hard to hold someone accountable for what they might or might not have done ... that said, No Such Agency does have one of the highest levels of secrecy of any government agency (more so than the DoD or CIA) ... it does raise the classic question "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" ... we do need to make sure that someone is properly supervising No Such Agency to make sure they are collecting and using information responsibly ;)
 
What's it matter? Big Brother has been watching everything everyone does for decades now. Everything you do, everywhere you go, every website you visit, they know it and see it all. TOR doesn't stop then, Tunneling doesn't stop them. Nothing does. Just accept that every single aspect of your life is under constant surveillance and move on with your life.
 
cliche said:
I'm in the UK and we get screwed anyway, but to see a country that broke away from us, created on certain principles go to this makes me sad (I'm am not keen at all on the US, yet I still feel this way)
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It's even more sad living here with so many who are (willingly?) oblivious to this nation's devolution to the point of vehemently supporting the downward spiral. :(
 
cliche said:
I'm in the UK and we get screwed anyway, but to see a country that broke away from us, created on certain principles go to this makes me sad (I'm am not keen at all on the US, yet I still feel this way)
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I wish the s of our country felt the way you do. You are more of an American than 50% of the people born here.
 
choppedliver said:
Apparently l i b t a r d is a verboeten word?
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There is no situation in which that word isn't used in an incendiary way.

Also, I think the reason you hate liberals so much is because you clearly don't understand their position. If you go to a place like reddit.com, which has a largely liberal user base, you'll find heavy criticism of NSA surveillance, drones, etc.

You can't think of everything in terms of just "us vs. them". Most liberals agree with you on surveillance and civil liberties.
 
I don't hate all of them. lol. I could say the same about their not understanding me, and have. Ive hung out on the "huffington post" and a few liberal sites to see their point of view. Not too many care to see a "teabagger" point of view, which is also incendiary. Not meant to derail, just found it odd that my word was censored out on hardocp of all places
 
cliche said:
I'm in the UK and we get screwed anyway, but to see a country that broke away from us, created on certain principles go to this makes me sad (I'm am not keen at all on the US, yet I still feel this way)
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So you pretty much don't care if the UK does it but if the "colonies" as you UK folk jokingly like to refer to us as do it .. it makes you sad?

It always makes me laugh when someone from another country which practices the same injustice gets a little dismayed at the US doing the same thing. To have a government is to have corruption.

Here is a bit of truth that extends across every nationality.. MANY governments all over the world do what the NSA and CIA do but in general its not under the microscope like the US government always is. People around the world should stop saying "the US" when referring to the US Government , you lob us all into one category as if there isn't many MANY unhappy citizens when it comes to government practices like NSA surveillance and the Patriot Act entirely because we really , really are extremely bothered by it.

I'm starting to get tired of foreigners constantly knocking the US for its practices yet seemingly not bothered by similar practices in their own respective countries.
 
choppedliver said:
I wish the s of our country felt the way you do. You are more of an American than 50% of the people born here.
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Thank you

There is such a disconnect between the People and Those Who Rule in the USA.
At least in the UK they hide it, but it's so blatant in America.

I'm normally left wing, but this is how revolutions start surely ?
The USA saved our arses (UK spelling) in WW2 promoting freedom against tyranny. They even shat on Churchill when he tried to maintain the British Empire (after all, why fight for freedom only to maintain colonialism).

Have those principles fought for in blood been lost ? No, they were never there even pre-WW2, but at least then they tried to give the impression that the US gave a shit about the values on which it was founded.
When business, judiciary, legislature and executive arms of the government stop giving a shit about common people, people will.....well you folks know the rest.
This is just a manifestation of the above
 
Godmachine said:
So you pretty much don't care if the UK does it but if the "colonies" as you UK folk jokingly like to refer to us as do it .. it makes you sad?

It always makes me laugh when someone from another country which practices the same injustice gets a little dismayed at the US doing the same thing. To have a government is to have corruption.

Here is a bit of truth that extends across every nationality.. MANY governments all over the world do what the NSA and CIA do but in general its not under the microscope like the US government always is. People around the world should stop saying "the US" when referring to the US Government , you lob us all into one category as if there isn't many MANY unhappy citizens when it comes to government practices like NSA surveillance and the Patriot Act entirely because we really , really are extremely bothered by it.

I'm starting to get tired of foreigners constantly knocking the US for its practices yet seemingly not bothered by similar practices in their own respective countries.
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No I'm sad that while we get screwed over, a country that was founded on some honest principles gets screwed over. It's not just the US, it's just power corrupts regardless of nationality. I believe we both agree on that point
 
Godmachine said:
So you pretty much don't care if the UK does it but if the "colonies" as you UK folk jokingly like to refer to us as do it .. it makes you sad?

It always makes me laugh when someone from another country which practices the same injustice gets a little dismayed at the US doing the same thing. To have a government is to have corruption.

Here is a bit of truth that extends across every nationality.. MANY governments all over the world do what the NSA and CIA do but in general its not under the microscope like the US government always is. People around the world should stop saying "the US" when referring to the US Government , you lob us all into one category as if there isn't many MANY unhappy citizens when it comes to government practices like NSA surveillance and the Patriot Act entirely because we really , really are extremely bothered by it.

I'm starting to get tired of foreigners constantly knocking the US for its practices yet seemingly not bothered by similar practices in their own respective countries.
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I suggest that you re-read my post
 
The 5-4 majority ruled that Americans cannot challenge domestic spying unless the gov't tells those Americans that they are being spied on, which the gov't won't do. Thank you, Scalia, Thomas, Kennedy, Roberts and especially Alito, who went through the trouble of authoring the majority opinion and not just joining. Our rights are secure in your vote! :rolleyes:
 
What's it matter? Big Brother has been watching everything everyone does for decades now. Everything you do, everywhere you go, every website you visit, they know it and see it all. TOR doesn't stop then, Tunneling doesn't stop them. Nothing does. Just accept that every single aspect of your life is under constant surveillance and move on with your life.
Click to expand...

Ask a real Intel Professional and see what they say about this.

I'll draw my analogy; If I put up a camera and watch the traffic as it flows along the interstate in a major city like D.C. am I monitoring every car? Yup, but am I actually seeing anything more then a moving mass of aluminum encased humanity? Not a thing. Dude, you are dreaming. But it does make good movie footage.
 
lcpiper said:
Ask a real Intel Professional and see what they say about this.

I'll draw my analogy; If I put up a camera and watch the traffic as it flows along the interstate in a major city like D.C. am I monitoring every car? Yup, but am I actually seeing anything more then a moving mass of aluminum encased humanity? Not a thing. Dude, you are dreaming. But it does make good movie footage.
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Pretty much. There simply isn't enough manpower or money in this country to setup an all seeing eye. It's great for the tinfoil hat people, but it doesn't stand the test of reality.
 
fattypants said:
There is no situation in which that word isn't used in an incendiary way.

Also, I think the reason you hate liberals so much is because you clearly don't understand their position. If you go to a place like reddit.com, which has a largely liberal user base, you'll find heavy criticism of NSA surveillance, drones, etc.

You can't think of everything in terms of just "us vs. them". Most liberals agree with you on surveillance and civil liberties.
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Did you just post a rational thought on a message board? Slap me, I must be dreaming.
 
Jeremy C said:
Pretty much. There simply isn't enough manpower or money in this country to setup an all seeing eye. It's great for the tinfoil hat people, but it doesn't stand the test of reality.
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It doesn't, but that doesn't make giving them the right to do so any more sane.
 
fattypants said:
You can't think of everything in terms of just "us vs. them". Most liberals agree with you on surveillance and civil liberties.
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Thanks. This can't be said enough. The more people that realize that we're all on the same side, the sooner we can overthrow our government.
 
Red Machine D said:
What's it matter? Big Brother has been watching everything everyone does for decades now. Everything you do, everywhere you go, every website you visit, they know it and see it all. TOR doesn't stop then, Tunneling doesn't stop them. Nothing does. Just accept that every single aspect of your life is under constant surveillance and move on with your life.
Click to expand...

civ 4 comes to mind - Never! (defy Resolution)

Acknowledge is one thing, acceptance not required to function.
 
"hypothetical future harm." ??


oooooooook?

let me bookmark this and come back in 20 years
 
Jeremy C said:
Pretty much. There simply isn't enough manpower or money in this country to setup an all seeing eye. It's great for the tinfoil hat people, but it doesn't stand the test of reality.
Click to expand...

This is actually a more realistic concern of the data gathering the NSA does (albeit not as grand as the Big Brother stuff.) They collect so much more data than they can currently analyze, it's actually decreasing their effectiveness for the time being.

Obviously there are long term concerns for things like liberty, but the short term concerns are that they're bogged down.
 
Highwind said:
Did you just post a rational thought on a message board? Slap me, I must be dreaming.
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Seriously, posts like these are getting annoying. It's like you're assuming the internet community has no rational thought.

If it's getting thrown out because it's based on irrational fears of only something that might happen, then why not take out the part that lets the NSA do those things that cause the irrational fear? Or put in a line or two that would prevent them.
 
choppedliver said:
Apparently l i b t a r d is a verboeten word?
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You do realize that this was a 5-4 decision on party lines, right? (5 conservatives, 4 liberals). Sorta undercuts the point you were trying to make, but don't let the facts get in the way.
 
Serpent said:
Seriously, posts like these are getting annoying. It's like you're assuming the internet community has no rational thought.
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I am oh so sorry to offend you.

chockomonkey said:
This can't be said enough. The more people that realize that we're all on the same side, the sooner we can overthrow our government.
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Indeed. I like to think of US politics like the old Halo Red vs Blue series. Two groups of people wearing different colors, arbitrarily fighting each other over a trivial box canyon (perpetuating the stagnant progress in any direction on an issue).
 
This is why political parties need to dissappear. Let us focus on the guy trying to get into office, not the mafia(the political parties). Most political parties appear to work like this; raise a bunch of money, then buy a position of power. Does it really cost that much to campaign when all they should be doing is telling the rest of us what their plans are? We need another Thomas Paine for this era.


Posted from Hardforum.com App for Android
 
This is why political parties need to dissappear. Let us focus on the guy trying to get into office, not the mafia(the political parties). Most political parties appear to work like this; raise a bunch of money, then buy a position of power. Does it really cost that much to campaign when all they should be doing is telling the rest of us what their plans are? We need another Thomas Paine for this era.


Posted from Hardforum.com App for Android
 
gah, damn phone. please excuse the double post.


Posted from Hardforum.com App for Android
 
"too speculative" to proceed based on fears of "hypothetical future harm."

Can we not apply the same theory to AR15's and Standard Capacity Magazines?
 
kbrickley said:
In principle I do agree with SCOTUS on this one ... hard to hold someone accountable for what they might or might not have done ... that said, No Such Agency does have one of the highest levels of secrecy of any government agency (more so than the DoD or CIA) ... it does raise the classic question "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" ... we do need to make sure that someone is properly supervising No Such Agency to make sure they are collecting and using information responsibly ;)
Click to expand...

Gubernatio non est tuus amicus. Gubernatio neminem servabat sed sese. Nemo custodiet custodes sed gubernatio habet 'sovereign immunity' et habet potentiam infinitam.
 
jon666 said:
This is why political parties wonder to dissappear. Let us focus on the guy trying to get into office, not the mafia(the political parties). Most political parties appear to work like this; raise a bunch of money, then buy a position of power. Does it really cost that much to campaign when all they should be doing is telling the rest of us what their plans are? We need another Thomas Paine for this era.


Posted from Hardforum.com App for Android
Click to expand...

It doesn't happen because we have single vote district winner takes all elections and collective action wins. Over the long term, it'll always divide into two parties.
 
mynamehere said:
It's even more sad living here with so many who are (willingly?) oblivious to this nation's devolution to the point of vehemently supporting the downward spiral. :(
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Eh, nobody's willing. We vote for the lesser evils.
 
damicatz said:
Gubernatio non est tuus amicus. Gubernatio neminem servabat sed sese. Nemo custodiet custodes sed gubernatio habet 'sovereign immunity' et habet potentiam infinitam.
Click to expand...



Veritae. Gubernatio amicum non est. Gubernatio malum necessitum est.
 
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