Is Foxconn Fleeing China?

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I know this article isn't talking about packing up 1.6 million workers and moving to a different country...but that sure would be a sight to see. ;)

Why should Gou leave the country that made him rich and famous? There are, for starters, spiraling wages, worker discontent, forced unionization, tough environmental enforcement. But the big factor today—and the one no one thought about three years ago—is political risk.
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So basically the same shit that drove US manufacturing to China. Check.
 
Eisenblut said:
Well, you know, you can't pay the workers much over poverty line or they get these ideas that they're worth something.
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Simple supply and demand. As long as there are huddled masses wages will stay low. Globalization just brings more groups of huddled masses into the market.
 
Foxconn is working on fully automated plants in Taiwan and the US. Plus Foxconn has new human factory workers in Brazil now. So yes, they are leaving China.
 
niconx said:
Foxconn is working on fully automated plants in Taiwan and the US. Plus Foxconn has new human factory workers in Brazil now. So yes, they are leaving China.
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Really? so what do the 400,000+ employees do? or was there a mass suicide?
 
I always happens. The country that gets outsourced work will eventually outsource the outsourced work. Haha gave me a chuckle there. Well as long as the work gets done for the contracted company and quality doesnt suffer I doubt Foxconn's customers will give a damn.
 
not expanding...

they will go where labor is cheapest, laws are laxed and they can make themselves look good

= automated plants in the U.S
= slave labor from brasil, same as China used to be.
 
They'll go wherever the top guy in the company can get the richest going to. When the country starts to outlaw the abuse, and the price of bribing government officials becomes too high, they'll just move again.
 
Methadras said:
Vietnam looks better and better for manufacturing.
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A friend of mine recently got a bunch of camping gear. I noticed that it was all made in Vietnam. If people look at the labels and boxes they will definitely notice that the words "Made in China" are becoming less frequent.
 
niconx said:
A friend of mine recently got a bunch of camping gear. I noticed that it was all made in Vietnam. If people look at the labels and boxes they will definitely notice that the words "Made in China" are becoming less frequent.
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All of my recent running shoes are made in Vietnam and a growing number of my clothing. I actually don't notice any differences in quality.
 
In the U.S. the cheapest labor is in prisons, but the product has more defects.

It's scary to think about how much of the hardware in medical devices, vehicles, military computers, etc. could be affected.
 
Taiwan cannot unto 1.6 million when it's got 23 million people in total.

It really is time to diversify from PRC. The long-term survival of firms such as Foxconn have to factor in geopolitical matters on top of their logistical overhead. Both of these are being put to doubt by China (with rising wages, disruptions and expansionist aspirations), making it high-time to reposition the firm from the country.
 
Monkey God said:
Simple supply and demand. As long as there are huddled masses wages will stay low. Globalization just brings more groups of huddled masses into the market.
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Yup! As long as consumers believe they are entitled to cheap products and corporations believe they are entitled screw employees over with slave wages and little to no benefits, the beatings will continue until morale improves.

The markets demand it!
 
Well look at air pollution levels in china, on top of pollution in the water and on top of aging workforce. China is looking less and less long term investment.
 
Well look at air pollution levels in china, on top of pollution in the water and on top of aging workforce. China is looking less and less long term investment.
 
DrDoug said:
Yup! As long as consumers believe they are entitled to cheap products and corporations believe they are entitled screw employees over with slave wages and little to no benefits, the beatings will continue until morale improves.

The markets demand it!
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This is not completely true either. Way back when Mexico was the China of the 90's because China messed up their PR and slaughtered a bunch of people I know that Mexico tried to keep wages suppressed so work would keep getting outsourced there. But eventually with people's short memories China became the place to be again and it didn't matter for Mexico.

Anyway, I have no doubt that the Chinese government has done everything possible to keep wages as low as possible for as long as possible. So to say the result is completely the fault of a free market is very unlikely. In fact our trade with China is about as anti-freetrade as you get.
 
jpm100 said:
This is not completely true either. ...
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I should have ended that with /sarcasm :D

jpm100 said:
... So to say the result is completely the fault of a free market is very unlikely. In fact our trade with China is about as anti-freetrade as you get.
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Which is exactly what the 'free marketers' want. Government keeping wages low is the wet dream of capitalists everywhere. Our version of "free markets" is that companies and government are able to exploit the labor force and blame the other guy/country for conditions.

While the banks vacuum up everything else.
 
DrDoug said:
...Government keeping wages low is the wet dream of capitalists everywhere....
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This might be true in places like China. But, what capitalism is supposed to be is far from that. The government isn't supposed to have anything to do with wages (unless it's minimum wage...which works against capitalism and is closer to socialism). Wages are meant to be between employees and employers. I can easily see where this can get confusing though, simply because there are so many employers operating with the wrong kind of thinking. The idea of capitalism is about making as much money as possible to increase ones' own wealth. This is something I completely support. But so much has changed and so much has become so twisted, perverted, and handed over to government that the true nature of capitalism gets lost in the noise. This happens with so many other things.

If things were done correctly, it would not be possible for government to keep wages low (or high or to even have that much influence). At best, government would only affect this via taxes.
 
If American consumers didn't complain about paying more for products 100% made in the US, I don't think we'd have to worry or complain about job outsourcing and unemployment.

So, your pair of jeans cost $5 to $10 more? Or, your car is a couple thousand dollars more expensive? Your cellphone is more expensive unsubsidized?

But, nah, we like our products cheap and mass produced on the cheap using...
... slave-like labor from factories in China and Taiwan
... sweatshops employing children such as places in China, Southeast Asia, and India
... Mexican "maquiladora"

So, thank you, majority of the American populace and American corporations for indirectly AND directly contributing to a large part of US unemployment and economic troubles.

Sincerely,
"American citizen that dislikes the attitudes in this country instead of any effort to help the economy and the country."
 
@octoberasian
That is a big part of why I don't own any i-toys

For me, it's more that it has become impossible to have any degree of passion/desire for anything electrical/electronic/computer related and NOT contribute to this process. In that regard, it's no different than dealing with gasoline. We're pretty much ALL backed into that corner.
 
prndll said:
This might be true in places like China. But, what capitalism is supposed to be is far from that. The government isn't supposed to have anything to do with wages (unless it's minimum wage...which works against capitalism and is closer to socialism). Wages are meant to be between employees and employers. I can easily see where this can get confusing though, simply because there are so many employers operating with the wrong kind of thinking. The idea of capitalism is about making as much money as possible to increase ones' own wealth. This is something I completely support. But so much has changed and so much has become so twisted, perverted, and handed over to government that the true nature of capitalism gets lost in the noise. This happens with so many other things.

If things were done correctly, it would not be possible for government to keep wages low (or high or to even have that much influence). At best, government would only affect this via taxes.
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No that is not what capitalism is about. The idea of capitalism is about the most effective use of capital as judged and returned by the market where the capital is privately owned and the goods are for sale at a profit to continue the system.
 
Paul_Johnson said:
No that is not what capitalism is about. The idea of capitalism is about the most effective use of capital as judged and returned by the market where the capital is privately owned and the goods are for sale at a profit to continue the system.
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exactly....the ability to make as much money as possible.
 
prndll said:
exactly....the ability to make as much money as possible.
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No, it is not "The idea of capitalism is about making as much money as possible to increase ones' own wealth" as you said. It is about efficiency of capital usage which is not the same thing as "much money as possible to increase ones' own wealth". This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the system works. Efficient capital usage may make a group wealthy, but holding capital out of the market does not make the system work and ultimately the hoarding of capital as personal wealth collapses the system and removes that wealth that had been accumulated by those hoarding it. This used to be the very first day of macroeconomics, I see it isn't any longer, I guess that explains a few things.
 
I'm not talking about hoarding anything (holding on to it)....no one makes money that way...I'm talking about making money

Money is used to make one wealthy....so the pursuit of money

Efficient use of capital (which basically is money) means making money

Without money there is no ownership (unless we're talking barter)

The idea is to make money (which I support)
 
Well, although focusing exclusive on the labor issues in China (which are many) is easier, another driver for the diversification into multiple manufacturing hubs is that transportation is starting to play more of an issue ... unless you want to ship by air (very pricey and limited capacity), shipments from China to the rest of the world are all by ship ... this means you have a large amount of inventory tied up in transit at any given time (plus the complexities of the crowded ports) and more complex security requirements with C-TPAT

Also, if you are producing more high tech products you are more automated and your labor costs aren't your primary cost driver ... this makes the return to regional manufacturing more attractive ... companies can return to more JIT type manufacturing, which simplifies inventory requirements and reduce overall costs and liabilities
 
up! As long as consumers believe they are entitled to cheap products and corporations believe they are entitled screw employees over with slave wages and little to no benefits, the beatings will continue until morale improves.

The markets demand it!
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Yeah, as if you'll be standing in line to purchase hand forged goods locally.

Pull the other one skippy, it's got bells on.

The only people who honestly believe that tend to live in California, Oregon, Washington (state) of the NE.
 
Canada had 136% GDP growth from 2002 to 2011 without (usually) screwing over workers or making inferior, faulty products.
 
octoberasian said:
If American consumers didn't complain about paying more for products 100% made in the US, I don't think we'd have to worry or complain about job outsourcing and unemployment.

So, your pair of jeans cost $5 to $10 more? Or, your car is a couple thousand dollars more expensive? Your cellphone is more expensive unsubsidized?

But, nah, we like our products cheap and mass produced on the cheap using...
... slave-like labor from factories in China and Taiwan
... sweatshops employing children such as places in China, Southeast Asia, and India
... Mexican "maquiladora"

So, thank you, majority of the American populace and American corporations for indirectly AND directly contributing to a large part of US unemployment and economic troubles.

Sincerely,
"American citizen that dislikes the attitudes in this country instead of any effort to help the economy and the country."
Click to expand...

You're welcome.

Sincerely,
[H]ot|Deals subforum
 
You gotta to love the capitalist haters. When China switched from a nearly completely agrarian/communist model to a mixed mode of authoritarian socialism and capitalism they went from a 3rd world has-been country to the 21st centuries next superpower. Capitalism gets shit done, and it took hundreds of millions of starving Chinese subsistence farmers/peasants into the modern age. Sure, their current conditions are deplorable compared to modern western societies, but infinitely better than they were 20-30 years ago.

You non-history knuckleheads also need to realize 100+ years ago conditions weren't that much better in the west. We have a head start, nothing more. China's speed in modernization is astonishing but you point out their growth pains as some kind of aberrance and evil that must be abolished. Morons.
 
singe_101 said:
Canada had 136% GDP growth from 2002 to 2011 without (usually) screwing over workers or making inferior, faulty products.
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Most likely due to the increase in Canadian media production in the last several years. Has Canada actually increased the number of manufactured goods being produced from 2002 to 2011?
 
prndll said:
@octoberasian
That is a big part of why I don't own any i-toys

For me, it's more that it has become impossible to have any degree of passion/desire for anything electrical/electronic/computer related and NOT contribute to this process. In that regard, it's no different than dealing with gasoline. We're pretty much ALL backed into that corner.
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In other words, a necessary evil.

We can't live without gasoline even with all the negativity behind it.

Same thing with our cheap goods. Americans wouldn't be able to live the rather excess materialistic lifestyle we have now without the cheap labor from other countries. On the other hand, it's also pushed a good majority of manufacturing jobs and other low skilled jobs overseas. Things that could help this economy a lot and unemployment issues.

Cheetoz said:
You're welcome.

Sincerely,
[H]ot|Deals subforum
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No problem at all. :p

I like the [H]ot|Deals subforum. <.<
 
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