One APU to rule the video card market?

psoomah

Weaksauce
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Per the CES AMD roadmap Kaveri will be available Q4, 2013. Ergo, the design was finalized when Microsoft and Sony are rumored to have 86ed their existing next gen plans for something else. Apparently AMD literally made Microsoft and Sony an offer they couldn't refuse.

Per AMD"s CES slideshow - "(Gaming) represents a massive market opportunity for AMD".

That's a VERY strong statement from AMD. But what other large and lucrative market segment offers such opportunity? It's the only large market AMD has the slightest chance to all but totally own. It's exactly what the slide says - a 'massive opportunity'. And every indication is they are intensely focused on, and putting the necessary resources into, taking full advantage of that opportunity.

Kaveri - Steamroller cores, extensive HSA implementation, unified address space, fully shared memory, GCN 2.0 ... add in AMD's 'mix and match' interface ... what else comes within a country mile of meeting next gen console performance/power/future proofing needs? Including Steam Box's needs?

Based on a working assumption AMD is getting their Kaveri architecture into the Xbox 3, PS 4 and Steam Box, there are wide ranging implications.

A deep and comprehensive development ecosystem likely to grow up around that architecture. All console and PC game engines likely to key on that architecture. The entire Steam Box Linux based console and PC ecosystem would grow around that architecture if it was chosen because AMD is almost certain to craft custom Linux drivers only for that particular APU family. It seems likely to be a de-facto pre-emption of Intel and Nvidia from future Linux development.

In a year, with all next gen and Steam Box Linux games tuned to it's architecture, Kaveri is likely to become the hot gaming chip and similarly architecture 8xxx boards to be the go to choice for gamers looking for more power. Under this scenario Intel's single core performance edge would not be coded for and not be taken advantage of nearly to the extent that Kaveri's Steamroller cores, HSA features, common memory pool, unified address space and GCN 2.0 architecture would be. Kaveri would just provide a far better gaming experience than anything on offer from Intel. It wouldn't take long for this to spread in the gaming community. A year from now is likely to see Kaveri being in very high demand. Two years from now Intel is likely to be all but irrelevant to computer gamers. It's a matter of economics. How expensive an Intel/Nvidia rig would it take to match the performance of a $130 Kaveri chip/$100 HD8750 board combo on next gen games? It's probably safe to say at least twice the $$$ for the same performance.

AIB graphics boards based on Kaveri GCN 2.0 would have an innate advantage over Nvidia's architecture as all gaes would be coded for that architecture and AMD, now intensely focused on gaming, would have the inside track on providing tip notch drivers day 1.How long would it take before Nvidia is relegated to second class status? How could they be price/performance competitive with AMD when AMD is holding a handful of aces? How can Nvidia compete in a professional market rapidly adopting the HSA architecture and having no OEM or AIB market sales of significance to underwrite the costs of developing Professional Graphics boards?

The professional graphics players, seeing the writing on the wall, are likely to start porting their engines to AMD's HSA architecture sooner than later. It's probably in progress now. How would Nvidia not becomes a minor player? I give JHH his due. He's a hell of a fighter. But forces are in motion beyond his control. I just don't see how Nvidia survives in the x86 space when they are shut out of the architecture.

Sure appears the potential is there for Kaveri architecture to largely determine the direction of the video card markets going forward, in essence, coming to 'rule' the consumer and professional video card markets.
 
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The one APU to rule them all might be Maxwell. *devil-smiley*

But it won't be ready for this console generation, so meh. :(

I have a question though (maybe OT). With the consoles moving from PowerPC to x86, will the previous gen games run on the new consoles? Will there be some kind of emulation layer or has it not been announced yet?

Either way, porting from the new consoles to the PC will be significantly easier.
 
The one APU to rule them all might be Maxwell. *devil-smiley*

But it won't be ready for this console generation, so meh. :(

I have a question though (maybe OT). With the consoles moving from PowerPC to x86, will the previous gen games run on the new consoles? Will there be some kind of emulation layer or has it not been announced yet?

Either way, porting from the new consoles to the PC will be significantly easier.

The leaked 2010 Xbox 720 power point presentation twice made specific mention a 360 CPU would be included for hardware based backward compatibility. Be odd if it wasn't included as Microsoft purchased the 360 IP primarily to ensure that backward compatibility.

As far as I am aware there is no solid indication the direction Sony is taking on this.
 
The one thing I don't like about APU's (an iGPU's), is that new CPU's come out every year now. That means updated APU's if you want a better one. It will actually be cheaper to buy a good CPU without a good APU (or iGPU), and just upgrade your graphics card when you need it.
 
In a year Kaveri will become the processor of choice for PC gamers, in two years Intel will be a bit player in computer gaming.

AIB graphics boards based on Kaveri GCN 2.0 will have a substantial innate advantage over Nvidia's architecture. This time next year Kaveri + an 8xxx AIB will be the go to system. In two years Nvidia is likely to be fading from the AIB scene and all but defunct in OEM x86 tablet, netbook, laptop and desktop markets. There will be nothing left to underwrite their professional market cards.

The professional graphics players, seeing the writing on the wall, will start porting their engines to AMD's HSA architecture. It's only a matter of time before Nvidia becomes a minor player in that market.
Kaveri is still x86 and x64. As long as Intel chips can do the same thing, their cores STILL outperform AMD's, and they can still out-manufacture AMD with sheer volume, then Intel won't be just a "bit player" in anything. As incredibly unlikely that AMD would take the performance crown, they still won't unseat Intel. Didn't happen back when Pentium 4 was around, won't happen again unless AMD trumps them on manufacturing.
 
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LMAO. I have never read such fanboy nonsense ever.

Newsflash: Kaveri is still x86 and x64. As long as Intel chips can do the same thing, their cores STILL outperform AMD's, and they can still out-manufacture AMD with sheer volume, then Intel won't be just a "bit player" in anything. As incredibly unlikely that AMD would take the performance crown, they still won't unseat Intel. Didn't happen back when Pentium 4 was around, won't happen again unless AMD trumps them on manufacturing.

You keep saying "year this", "2 years that", "will be" as if it is indisputable fact. You are presenting opinion as fact with your word choice, and as such your post is marketing shill at best, fanboy drivel at worst.

He's Talking about Nvidia not intel:rolleyes:
 
AMD can keep the IGP performance crown if it wants, simply by dedicating more and more die space to the GPU. Not sure it's a great strategy when CPU performance lags so far behind already, and AMD is using 2.5x more silicon than Intel for $80-$130 (retail price, cheaper in volume) processors, which represents a massive segment of AMD's competitive processors. And don't even start on power consumption where CPU performance is competitive. This is unsustainable and AMD is still a year out on new products to address these shortcomings.

Last I checked, Nvidia isn't the company circling the drain and doing multiple layoffs, so I'm not sure why Nvidia wouldn't continue to remain competitive in the AIB market.
 
LMAO. I have never read such fanboy nonsense ever.

Newsflash: Kaveri is still x86 and x64. As long as Intel chips can do the same thing, their cores STILL outperform AMD's, and they can still out-manufacture AMD with sheer volume, then Intel won't be just a "bit player" in anything. As incredibly unlikely that AMD would take the performance crown, they still won't unseat Intel. Didn't happen back when Pentium 4 was around, won't happen again unless AMD trumps them on manufacturing.

You keep saying "year this", "2 years that", "will be" as if it is indisputable fact. You are presenting opinion as fact with your word choice, and as such your post is marketing shill at best, fanboy drivel at worst.

I'll grant you the 'will be' point. It gets dreary coming up non repetitive 'it's possible' phrases, I do tend to drift to the definitive 'will'. Feel free to substitute non-definitive wording whenever you read the word 'will'.

Intel chips can't do the same thing. Specific code implementation will be significantly different. Games will be coded for AMD's specific Steamroller architecture, HSA implementation, unified address space, common memory pool and GCN 2.0 architecture. All of AMD's middleware and growing development ecosystem will be universally used by PC and console game developers to optimize for AMD's console architectures.

Developers and publishers are likely to concentrate first on the Xbox 720, PS4 and Steam Box, all easily cross ported and all locked down ecosystems, then most will do cheap and dirty PC ports with Intel optimization sucking the priority hind teat.

This is a radically different ballgame than current generation consoles, wherein many games were developed on Intel CPUs and then ported to the different consoles or developed on non X86 CPUs and then ported to x86 on an Intel CPU.
ALL OF THAT IS GONE.

Now nearly all games will be developed on and optimized exclusively for AMD CPU/GPU architectures and Intel won't enter the picture at all until it's time do a PC port. That's not going to turn out well for Intel and their world famous driver team. Speaking of drivers, if Steam Box Linux contains a Kaveri and AMD Linux drivers optimized specifically and only to that architecture, Intel will be totally shut out of what is likely to be a very fast expanding 'Steam' ecosystem with a wildly enthusiastic community.

An Intel free ecosystem that could easily become tens of million strong in a few years.

On the other hand what CPU/GPU Valve is going with is still unverified, so I suppose Intel is not an impossibility.
 
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He's Talking about Nvidia not intel:rolleyes:
Read again. He is talking about BOTH and how AMD's tech will usurp them. My reply was to the Intel related statements. Here is OP's quote below:
In a year Kaveri will become the processor of choice for PC gamers, in two years Intel will be a bit player in computer gaming.
======================

I'll grant you the 'will be' point. It gets dreary coming up non repetitive 'it's possible' phrases, I do tend to drift to the definitive 'will'. Feel free to substitute non-definitive wording whenever you read the word 'will'.
Very well, if that's how you define it, I will back off on any other fanboy accusations. True fanboys are blind to any wrongdoing. You might want to pick your words a little better so others don't do the same as I did. ;)
 
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Read again. He is talking about BOTH and how AMD's tech will usurp them. My reply was to the Intel related statements. Here is OP's quote below:

======================

Very well, if that's how you define it, I will back off on any other fanboy accusations. True fanboys are blind to any wrongdoing. You might want to pick your words a little better so others don't do the same as I did. ;)

Nice. It is editable. I'll take the time to reword it ...

Done. Does feel better now.
 
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Speaking of drivers, if Steam Box Linux contains a Kaveri and AMD Linux drivers optimized specifically and only to that architecture, Intel will be totally shut out of what is likely to be a very fast expanding 'Steam' ecosystem with a wildly enthusiastic community.

It's hard to know if AMD and Linux will ever go together. If you notice every press release, media event, and trade show the only thing AMD talks about is Windows. Even when they start talking up their tablet entries: all Windows, no Android.

AMD has no Linux strategy.

Even complex features like HSA computing appear to be totally devoid of Linux references.

So I do think that Valve would have to be a little bit off-kilter to award AMD a win for a Linux-based system, but it's certainly possible.

Intel and NVIDIA, however, have hedged their bets and broadened their focus away from just Windows. That forward-thinking is why they at least have a chance in the mobile market.
 
So I do think that Valve would have to be a little bit off-kilter to award AMD a win for a Linux-based system, but it's certainly possible.

I see AMD as the logical choice. We'll see.
 
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It's hard to know if AMD and Linux will ever go together. If you notice every press release, media event, and trade show the only thing AMD talks about is Windows. Even when they start talking up their tablet entries: all Windows, no Android.

Not remotely accurate.

AMD has no Linux strategy. So I do think that Valve would have to be a little bit off-kilter to award AMD a win for a Linux-based system, but it's certainly possible.

AMD has a Linux strategy, it just wasn't focused on it. But times have changed. Today's AMD is intensely focused on and putting major resources behind it's gaming centric strategy and the Steam Box is going to be a substantial player in that space. AMD recently did a major re-organization of it's Linux teams. I have no verification, but it's not a stretch that re-organization was to create a large and growing 'Steam Box' team focused on providing top quality Linux drivers for the Steam Box a.s.a.p. With potential APU sales into the tens of millions that is a market worth going all out to capture.

So AMD's Linux relationship has just been okay, but still signifacantly better than Nvidia's Linux relationship - (from last June): "But NVIDIA Corp. (NVDA) received the worst beating, with Mr. Torvalds calling the graphics and system-on-a-chip maker the worst company he's ever dealt with and telling it, "NVIDIA: F--k you!" (accompanied by a corresponding profane gesture)" Another strike against Nvidia showing up in a Linux based Steam Box. The Linux development community hates Nvidia. Why take that baggage on?

Even complex features like HSA computing appear to be totally devoid of Linux references.

CodeXL v1.0 fully supports Linux. AMD opened up it's Linux driver stack to the Linux community.

Intel and NVIDIA, however, have hedged their bets and broadened their focus away from just Windows. That forward-thinking is why they at least have a chance in the mobile market.

AMD has manifestly been not only more forward thinking than Intel and Nvidia, they have also been at the forefront of pushing for open standards even as Intel and Nvidia continually look to lock down proprietary standards.

What AMD doesn't have is Intel's endlessly deep pockets or Nvidia's far smaller fixed costs. At that AMD hasn't been absent from mobile, and Temash is looking to make quite a splash in the x86 mobile space.
 
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