PSU modding

S

sliv

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Dec 21, 2012
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Try to bear with me, my terminology on the subject is lacking.

Is it possible to mod an existing psu (atx, sfx, slimline, doesn't matter) into an external psu to use as an AC cord/adapter? Consoles use AC adapters along with an internal psu to minimize console form size, and I'm trying to do the same with an upcoming mini-itx build.

I basically want to turn this

(random)
article_img.jpg


into this

(alienware x51)
alienwarex51psu_zpsdc0c25ba.jpg


In essence I'm trying to build my own alienware x51 http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/...1081723/review
My question is regarding their psu setup; how would I go about re-creating it (internal + external parts), or better yet, where can I buy one?
Is this a doable project (I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty, I prefer it actually) or is simply impossible?

Here's the parts list I'll be working with (flexible)
Intel I5 2500k (owned)
Zotac GTX 660 Ti 2GB
Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x4gb) (owned)
Undecided Mini-ITX mobo
Crusial 64 GB SSD (owned)
1 TB HD (owned)

What do you guys think would be the maximum power draw from this or a similar system?
 
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There was a Power Supply company a few years back that did this (I had one of them) I do not remember the company name but they were silent (had a massive heat sink). what they did was have a back plate that had all the connectors and you would sit the external power supply next to your computer and plug in to the back plate. SO it is possible but they went out of business. They offered a life time warranty but when I went to collect on that it did not work being they were going out of business at the time.

So what I am getting at if you purchase or make some adapter cabels and you can get them still like this other than being too short: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200121 and make a mounting plate on the back of your computer you could make an external mounting system. Or make your own connector system to connect all the different cables you would want. Ahh I found the power supply I was talking about: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/XG-Magnum-600-External-Power-Supply/299
problem is they went under a few years ago.
17-125-001-04.jpg
 
I read somewhere that extending the cables even further than they already are may add stability issues and put a strain on the hardware, is this not the case? Also I'm trying to build a super sleek console style pc and having the psu mounted on the outside would kill aesthetics (unless its the level 10, but that's too awesome for me). Either a super slim psu (not sfx) squeezed inside, or an external psu is preferable.

And that zotac board combo would be ideal for this build if it had a stronger psu (i5 2500k, gtx 660ti, 8gb 1600, ssd, hd). Apologize for the rushed response, I have to run off and can't investigate, but as far as I know a 90watt psu can't support that.
 
Adding longer wires adds resistance and heat created by the wires, which can be offset by using thicker wires.

Keep in mind, PSUs are also outputting 3.3v, 5v, and 12v, while those brick power supplies only output one voltage.
 
Tsumi said:
Adding longer wires adds resistance and heat created by the wires, which can be offset by using thicker wires.

Keep in mind, PSUs are also outputting 3.3v, 5v, and 12v, while those brick power supplies only output one voltage.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to keep things as discrete as possible for the wiring so while that idea could work, seeing a cluster of wires 6" in diameter coming out of a tiny enclosure isn't exactly what I had in mind.

I've noticed that concoles and laptops split the psu into two parts, internal and external. Any idea how this is done?
 
Tsumi said:
Keep in mind, PSUs are also outputting 3.3v, 5v, and 12v, while those brick power supplies only output one voltage.
Click to expand...

p1080358.jpg

What about something like this?

I've also stumbled upon this thread where someone was able to mod an xbox360 psu for use with his graphics card. Is there a way to connect the adapter to the pc psu instead, and in return mod the existing psu to take up less space?

@Tidicus
Are you talking about this?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0Y108P4565
 
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Please explain further what you are trying to do. I can not figure out what you want.

Edit: I think I figured it out..

I've noticed that concoles and laptops split the psu into two parts, internal and external. Any idea how this is done?
Click to expand...

They usually use power bricks that have a single voltage output. Then inside the laptop or mini they have additional power circuitry to provide the other voltages needed.

What about something like this?
Click to expand...

I doubt whatever you want to power would require only 600 MA or 7.2 watts at the 12V setting..

And this still outputs only 1 voltage at a time depending on the position of the switch.
 
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You probably want something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817129006

Provided whatever PC you are powering uses 85W or less.

And that zotac board combo would be ideal for this build if it had a stronger psu (i5 2500k, gtx 660ti, 8gb 1600, ssd, hd). Apologize for the rushed response, I have to run off and can't investigate, but as far as I know a 90watt psu can't support that.
Click to expand...

I have not seen any supply that can do this. Notebook supplies can get away with a single voltage because they are generally 90W or less total. For this system you will likely need 500W.
 
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I do not believe something like this exists in the size you need it. To support more power the components need to be larger or the cable to your PC needs to be larger.
 
sliv said:
I believe it does, I mean after all, alienware, consoles, and laptops all did it.
Click to expand...

None of these use any where near 400W. Laptops typically have a ~19.5 V 90W or so AC to DC brick and inside the laptop they have additional DC to DC power supply circuitry to convert the 19.5V down to 12V, 5V, 3.3V ...

The problem you face is the more power you need the larger the supply needs to be inside the machine or you need large cables outside like the solution Tidicus described.
 
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There's actually one on sale right now exactly like what you're looking for. Although you're limited to 80 watts.

http://slickdeals.net/f/5784222-Mini-Box-picoPSU-80-80-watt-PSU-20-w-FSSS-Amazon

like everyone's saying, if you want high powered equipment you're gonna need a bigger case. Laptop components in general have a much lower power draw than desktop ones. Everyone would love to fit a hex core i7 and tri sli in an xbox size enclosure, but sadly it ain't gonna happen
 
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Actually, here's one that's almost 200 watts! http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-160-XT-192W-Adapter-Power-Kit
but i doubt you're going to get much more power than this without going the conventional psu route...

but you could definitely get a decently powerful system to fit in a 200w footprint, and i think if you want to go higher than that you're better off getting a case that can accommodate a psu in it.

unless... You could get 2 of the 200w supplies... 1 to power your core system, and the other one could solely power your graphics card. I think you could realistically make that work!
 
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helloha1 said:
Actually, here's one that's almost 200 watts! http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-160-XT-192W-Adapter-Power-Kit
but i doubt you're going to get much more power than this without going the conventional psu route...

but you could definitely get a decently powerful system to fit in a 200w footprint, and i think if you want to go higher than that you're better off getting a case that can accommodate a psu in it.

unless... You could get 2 of the 200w supplies... 1 to power your core system, and the other one could solely power your graphics card. I think you could realistically make that work!
Click to expand...

You could just connect the rails together and then they would both power both.
 
There is a special custom made Falcon Northwest laptop which uses a 300w AC adapter. I don't think you can get that adapter anywhere else though.
 
The Alienware X51 uses the following parts to provide power to the system:

External 330w power brick: XM3C3
DC Cable Jack: 2YG07
Power Board: D0HY5

Hope this is the information that you were looking for. This is one of the companies that I use to get replacement parts for a lot of the Dell OptiPlex and Vostro products that we use at work, when I don't feel like messing with Dell. Impact Computers Alienware X51 parts
 
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drescherjm said:
Could you fit something like this fit inside your case?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817338081
Click to expand...

Because the case is going to be a custom enclosure I don't have specific dimensions. A psu of that size might just be the solution I was looking for. Will return after sketchup mockups

drescherjm said:
None of these use any where near 400W. Laptops typically have a ~19.5 V 90W or so AC to DC brick and inside the laptop they have additional DC to DC power supply circuitry to convert the 19.5V down to 12V, 5V, 3.3V ...
Click to expand...

My plan is to do just that, IF i can find a powerful enough power brick, after all more powerful gaming laptops use the same setup.

helloha1 said:
Actually, here's one that's almost 200 watts! http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-160-XT-192W-Adapter-Power-Kit
but i doubt you're going to get much more power than this without going the conventional psu route...

but you could definitely get a decently powerful system to fit in a 200w footprint, and i think if you want to go higher than that you're better off getting a case that can accommodate a psu in it.

unless... You could get 2 of the 200w supplies... 1 to power your core system, and the other one could solely power your graphics card. I think you could realistically make that work!
Click to expand...

I updated OP so you can have a better understanding of what I'm building. While the 2 psu solution may work, the problem is they're simply going to take up too much space. I suppose I could fuse them under one enclosure but wouldn't that cause a heat issue?

KrylonArt said:
The Alienware X51 uses the following parts to provide power to the system:

External 330w power brick: XM3C3
DC Cable Jack: 2YG07
Power Board: D0HY5

Hope this is the information that you were looking for. This is one of the companies that I use to get replacement parts for a lot of the Dell OptiPlex and Vostro products that we use at work, when I don't feel like messing with Dell. Impact Computers Alienware X51 parts
Click to expand...

Thanks for the links! I didn't realize their psu's were that costly (almost $400!), but if all else fails I'll go with them.

drescherjm said:
I expect this to lead to smoke unless the GPU would be able to be powered by a single PSU. And the mobo + CPU + storage powered by the second psu.

Edit: I see you said that a few posts above...

Edit2:
Thinking of this if the GPU is less than 192W max this could work.
Click to expand...

Edited OP for parts list
 
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sliv said:
In essence I'm trying to build my own alienware x51 http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/...1081723/review
Click to expand...
Have you seen the Digital Storm Bolt? It's similar in form factor to the Alienware X51 but uses mostly commerical off the shelf parts (well except for the case of course:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3542020/digital-storm-bolt-mini-itx-gaming
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6407/digitalstorm-bolt-gaming-system-review-its-little-but-its-fierce
http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadbolt.asp?id=734513&price=$999

In the AT review, the CPU was even overclocked.

sliv said:
My question is regarding their psu setup; how would I go about re-creating it (internal + external parts), or better yet, where can I buy one?
Is this a doable project (I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty, I prefer it actually) or is simply impossible?
Click to expand...
Doable yes. Clean, maybe not. With your exact performance requirements? Maybe.

sliv said:
Here's the parts list I'll be working with (flexible)
Intel I5 2500k
Click to expand...
At $220, that CPU is a tad overpriced these days considering that the Core i5 3570K costs the same:
$215 - Intel Core i5-3570K CPU

sliv said:
Zotac GTX 660 Ti 2GB
Click to expand...
I would go with a more reputable manufacturer like eVGA, Gigabyte, or MSI.

sliv said:
Undecided Mini-ITX motherboard (<$100 overclock-able board)
Click to expand...
You need a mobo with the Z77 chipset to overclock. There's only six available mITX Z77 mobos on Newegg at the moment. None of them are below $100:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...eactivatedMark=False&Order=PRICE&PageSize=100

My recommendation would be the P8Z77-I Deluxe if you're really serious about overclocking.

sliv said:
Crusial 64 GB SSD
Click to expand...
These days, sub 128GB good quality SSDs are generally overpriced. Spedn the extra cash for this SSD instead:
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-120GB...F8&qid=1357603101&sr=1-3&keywords=Samsung+830

sliv said:
What do you guys think would be the maximum power draw from this or a similar system?
Click to expand...
My guess is probably 300W to 350W max with heavy-duty overclocking at full load. Probably 200W to 250W without overclocking.

sliv said:
Because the case is going to be a custom enclosure I don't have specific dimensions. A psu of that size might just be the solution I was looking for. Will return after sketchup mockups
Click to expand...
I would not go with that Athena considering its quality. I mean, 26A on the +12V rail for a 400W PSU? That's dead give-away of its quality IMO considering that most good quality 400W PSUs have 30A on the +12V rail.

sliv said:
My plan is to do just that, IF i can find a powerful enough power brick, after all more powerful gaming laptops use the same setup.
Click to expand...
They don't. Gaming laptops use mobile versions of desktop CPUs and GPUs that use significantly less power. Not to mention that with the way the parts are all integrated in a laptop, that probably introduces further power saving features.

sliv said:
While the 2 psu solution may work, the problem is they're simply going to take up too much space. I suppose I could fuse them under one enclosure but wouldn't that cause a heat issue?
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. Another option would be to use the pico-PSU that helloha1 linked to power the mobo + CPU + whatever but use this Xbox 360 PSU mod to power the GPU alone:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1039493125#post1039493125

Yes it still would require two power prices but it would be cheaper than getting that Alienware PSU.
 
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Danny Bui said:
Have you seen the Digital Storm Bolt? It's similar in form factor to the Alienware X51 but uses mostly commerical off the shelf parts (well except for the case of course:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3542020/digital-storm-bolt-mini-itx-gaming
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6407/digitalstorm-bolt-gaming-system-review-its-little-but-its-fierce
http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadbolt.asp?id=734513&price=$999

In the AT review, the CPU was even overclocked.
Click to expand...

The digital storm bolt, the alienware x51, the phantom, and a couple others are what actually inspired me to do this project.

Doable yes. Clean, maybe not. With your exact performance requirements? Maybe.
Click to expand...
I'm going to spend a fair amount of time on this build so if it does get messy I'll take the time to clean it up.


At $220, that CPU is a tad overpriced these days considering that the Core i5 3570K costs the same:
$215 - Intel Core i5-3570K CPU
Click to expand...

The reason I'm oing to use the i5 is because I already own it and love it's performance. I should have mentioned that I own some of the parts already, apologies.

I would go with a more reputable manufacturer like eVGA, Gigabyte, or MSI.
Click to expand...

I believe the Zotac is currently the only manufacturer that produces 660ti "short" cards. And from my experiences with them, they're extremely underrated and perform just as well as EVGA


You need a mobo with the Z77 chipset to overclock. There's only six available mITX Z77 mobos on Newegg at the moment. None of them are below $100:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...eactivatedMark=False&Order=PRICE&PageSize=100

My recommendation would be the P8Z77-I Deluxe if you're really serious about overclocking.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info.

These days, sub 128GB good quality SSDs are generally overpriced. Spedn the extra cash for this SSD instead:
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-120GB...F8&qid=1357603101&sr=1-3&keywords=Samsung+830
Click to expand...

As mentioned before, I own the SSD as well.


My guess is probably 300W to 350W max with heavy-duty overclocking at full load. Probably 200W to 250W without overclocking.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this as well.

I would not go with that Athena considering its quality. I mean, 26A on the +12V rail for a 400W PSU? That's dead give-away of its quality IMO considering that most good quality 400W PSUs have 30A on the +12V rail.
Click to expand...

That's one of the reasons I'm put off by the Athena psu's, they're reviews were terrible.

They don't. Gaming laptops use mobile versions of desktop CPUs and GPUs that use significantly less power. Not to mention that with the way the parts are all integrated in a laptop, that probably introduces further power saving features.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, that makes alot of sense, I can't believe I didn't realize that before. I was wondering how could the compact an entire system into a tiny little box and not use an atx psu.

Not necessarily. Another option would be to use the pico-PSU that helloha1 linked to power the mobo + CPU + whatever but use this Xbox 360 PSU mod to power the GPU alone:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1039493125#post1039493125

Yes it still would require two power prices but it would be cheaper than getting that Alienware PSU.
Click to expand...

I'm going to look more into this solution since several of you have mentioned it
 
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sliv said:
I believe the Zotac is currently the only manufacturer that produces 660ti "short" cards. And from my experiences with them, they're extremely underrated and perform just as well as EVGA
Click to expand...
I'm talking about Zotac's QC and CS issues when I mean "more reputable". Unless that space is really critical, I still highly recommend going with eVGA, Gigabyte, or MSI.
 
sliv said:
I'm going to look more into this solution since several of you have mentioned it
Click to expand...
Yeah, the picopsu seems like a good option. There's barely anything that takes up space on the inside of the case and it provides 200w. If you're feeling adventurous, the Xbox PSU seems a good option for graphics, otherwise a second picopsu with something like the lian li adapter I linked would be a good no hassle solution. Regardless, you're probably going to end up with 2 power bricks outside your case unless you go the conventional atx route.
I updated OP so you can have a better understanding of what I'm building. While the 2 psu solution may work, the problem is they're simply going to take up too much space. I suppose I could fuse them under one enclosure but wouldn't that cause a heat issue?
Click to expand...
I don't see space or heat being an issue.. The picopsu is really really small. The majority of the bulk is going to be in the power bricks which are outside the case.
 
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cowamanjaro said:
You could just connect the rails together and then they would both power both.
Click to expand...

Could you elaborate?

EDIT*

After digging around on the net turns out Athena Power isn't that bad, just that particular model was. I later found these three 400W power supplies and they should fit, now if only I could tell them apart...
A couple of questions:
-most importantly, could any of these support my setup!
-what are their main differences (if any besides brand names)
-If all of them are 400W 80+ certified, then why is the FSP about an inch longer than the U1
and almost 3" longer than the MF!!!!!!

FSP
U1
MF
 
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sliv said:
Could you elaborate?

EDIT*

After digging around on the net turns out Athena Power isn't that bad, just that particular model was. I later found these three 400W power supplies and they should fit, now if only I could tell them apart...
A couple of questions:
-most importantly, could any of these support my setup!
-what are their main differences (if any besides brand names)
-If all of them are 400W 80+ certified, then why is the FSP about an inch longer than the U1
and almost 3" longer than the MF!!!!!!

FSP
U1
MF
Click to expand...
Gave up on the external power supply, huh? :p

And 80+ certification isn't necessarily linked to size, it only tests efficiency.
 
sliv said:
-what are their main differences (if any besides brand names)
Click to expand...
The U1 is out for sure since its PSU label doesn't tell you how much amperage is available on the +12V rail. That's one of more important pieces of info on a PSU. The MF does have that info: It has 26A on the +12V rail. However the FSP has 30A on the +12V rail. So assuming all things are equal, the FSP is the better choice since it has more usable power than the MF.

However, neither the FSP or MF have proper PSU reviews backing them up. As such, you're taking a gamble with either PSUs. I'd recommend the $79 Seasonic SS-350M1U 350W instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151116

Unlike the three PSUs you linked, the above Seasonic actually has a proper PSU review backing it up:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=277

It has 29A on the +12V rail, only one 1A less than the FSP. And yes the Seasonic will be enough for your needs.

sliv said:
-If all of them are 400W 80+ certified, then why is the FSP about an inch longer than the U1
and almost 3" longer than the MF!!!!!!
Click to expand...
FYI 80+ Certification has no bearing on PSU length. Now the reason why those PSUs are all of different lengths is mainly due to the different designs and complainants used in those PSUs. There's nothing in the ATX PSU specifications (not the form factor but the actual electrical specifications) that says that all PSU lengths have to be the same or similar.
 
helloha1 said:
Gave up on the external power supply, huh? :p

And 80+ certification isn't necessarily linked to size, it only tests efficiency.
Click to expand...

As much as I want the external, the best solutions I've sen either cost way too much money or involve two bricks :(. I don't remember exactly where, but I saw someone mod a picopsu to allow for a more powerful psu brick (250-300w) but he never explained how he did it :(

:(


Danny Bui said:
The U1 is out for sure since its PSU label doesn't tell you how much amperage is available on the +12V rail. That's one of more important pieces of info on a PSU. The MF does have that info: It has 26A on the +12V rail. However the FSP has 30A on the +12V rail. So assuming all things are equal, the FSP is the better choice since it has more usable power than the MF.

However, neither the FSP or MF have proper PSU reviews backing them up. As such, you're taking a gamble with either PSUs. I'd recommend the $79 Seasonic SS-350M1U 350W instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151116

Unlike the three PSUs you linked, the above Seasonic actually has a proper PSU review backing it up:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=277

It has 29A on the +12V rail, only one 1A less than the FSP. And yes the Seasonic will be enough for your needs.


FYI 80+ Certification has no bearing on PSU length. Now the reason why those PSUs are all of different lengths is mainly due to the different designs and complainants used in those PSUs. There's nothing in the ATX PSU specifications (not the form factor but the actual electrical specifications) that says that all PSU lengths have to be the same or similar.
Click to expand...

That is a very nice little psu, however after reading that review the loud whiny fan has me concerned as sound would be an issue. Would switching out the fan to a quite 40mm (highest I can is 60) SilenX, Scythe or similar provide enough airflow to cool the unit?
 
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I'm not an electrical professional but this seems like a terrible way to die
 
Haha yes, yes it would, that's why I've decided to go with the flex-atx or the sfx psu. Thanks all for the help xoxo
 
sliv said:
That is a very nice little psu, however after reading that review the loud whiny fan has me concerned as sound would be an issue. Would switching out the fan to a quite 40mm (highest I can is 60) SilenX, Scythe or similar provide enough airflow to cool the unit?
Click to expand...
No. Generally with 40mm fans, if they're quiet, they're not moving enough air and if they're loud, they're generally moving a lot of air unless defective.

An alternative of sorts would be cut open the PSU and tape a relatively quiet 80mm fan over it. It'll look something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817339004

EDIT: Before you ask, no don't get that HEC PSU because it's of extremely low quality and/or old age. The red switch on it is a dead giveaway of that fact.
 
cowamanjaro said:
You could just connect the rails together and then they would both power both.
Click to expand...

NO.


Separate rails mean separate regulation, so if you combine them, they fight one another beause each one is trying to regulate to the voltage of its own reference.

Power separately from each rail.
 
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