Do the EMI shields on Creative cards do anything?

Ocellaris

Ocellaris

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Jan 1, 2008
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I picked up a Recon 3D for cheap on Amazon. I really like the card over the Xonar DG and X-Fi ExtremeGamer I also have, and the drivers work great. Only problem is that the is picking up feedback or interference from my GPU. Sounds like a static that seems to vary with GPU load or framerate. I've tried both PCI Express slots and with the front panel cable attached and not attached. The static comes through the headphone jack directly on the card as well.

I could return this and get a Recon 3D Fatality Pro or a Sound Blaster Z. Are these likely to fix the static problem because they have the EMI shields? Or are those just fluff to make the cards look better?

I have no problems with the noise on any other sound card, however those are all PCI cards.
 
Could be emf noise. Could also be that the card is getting noisy power from the psu.
 
Skripka said:
Could be emf noise. Could also be that the card is getting noisy power from the psu.
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Definitely could be, however I am not going to replace my power supply to use a sound card if that is the problem. Plus I don't have another power supply to test that out with.
 
Open the case and move around the cord going to the front bay (assuming you have the model that has that). I actually did that with the computer still on and was able to move it to a spot that didn't generate any noise. That is the main problem with the front bay, the cord has to run through the PC and picks up all kinds of noise since not shielded well. You will notice the Z series doesn't have a front bay and instead has an external breakout box to avoid this problem.
 
txfeinbergs said:
Open the case and move around the cord going to the front bay (assuming you have the model that has that). I actually did that with the computer still on and was able to move it to a spot that didn't generate any noise. That is the main problem with the front bay, the cord has to run through the PC and picks up all kinds of noise since not shielded well. You will notice the Z series doesn't have a front bay and instead has an external breakout box to avoid this problem.
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It makes the same noise with the font panel cord detached :(
 
Any chance you could move the sound card to a pci-e slot further from the video card? Make sure the 12V going to the gpu is also not routed near the sound card if possible.
 
shadow_419 said:
Any chance you could move the sound card to a pci-e slot further from the video card? Make sure the 12V going to the gpu is also not routed near the sound card if possible.
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Unfortunately no. I only have two possible PCI Express slots to use. One is directly above the video card and one is directly below it.

When using PCI cards, I am using the bottom slot which is furthest from the video card. If I swap the GPU to the other PCI Express slot, it will only run at 8x (which may not be noticeable, however I don't want to do that)
 
Problem resolved by dropping my Radeon 7850 2GB for a GTX 660 2GB and getting a Sound Blaster Z to replace the Recon 3D.

Not sure which part fixed the issue.
 
I can hear the "squealing" of the GPU V-Regs on my 5850 quite well. Not really a surprise that some sounds cards pick up the noise :(
 
Sorry for the late post -- but no, the EMI shield really doesn't do much. I too have had issues with the Recon3D with two GTX480 and later GTX690. It leaks across the bus/backplane, not from radiation inside the case. My solution was to output the Recon3D to a DAC over toslink, after trying various galvanic isolation techniques with only moderate success (direct box makes it inaudible, but if you measure it -- it's still there.) The headphone out on the Recon3D doesn't suffer from the noise, only the line-outs, so the opamps they chose for the headphone port seem to filter the signal more before the gain stage. Electronics designed with virtual ground almost always run into this nonsense, or pick up cell signals.

I am glad, and a little irritated to hear that the Sound Blaster Z corrected your issue. I was eyeing the Sound Blaster ZX just this morning, wondering if it has the same issues. I have to use an extension cord for the microphone port to my headset, and a separate Nano Patch+ volume control from the headphone out (with cables of course.) It causes a lot of wire clutter that I'd rather do without. The ZX has a volume pot, that'd simplify things; though I worry that it's of low quality and might track poorly left/right channels on small increments.

I don't suppose you still have that 7850 around, and would be willing to uninstall the GTX660 and put the 7850 back in for me and tell me if it still makes noise, would you ocellaris? :D
 
Farkle said:
Sorry for the late post -- but no, the EMI shield really doesn't do much. I too have had issues with the Recon3D with two GTX480 and later GTX690. It leaks across the bus/backplane, not from radiation inside the case. My solution was to output the Recon3D to a DAC over toslink, after trying various galvanic isolation techniques with only moderate success (direct box makes it inaudible, but if you measure it -- it's still there.) The headphone out on the Recon3D doesn't suffer from the noise, only the line-outs, so the opamps they chose for the headphone port seem to filter the signal more before the gain stage. Electronics designed with virtual ground almost always run into this nonsense, or pick up cell signals.

I am glad, and a little irritated to hear that the Sound Blaster Z corrected your issue. I was eyeing the Sound Blaster ZX just this morning, wondering if it has the same issues. I have to use an extension cord for the microphone port to my headset, and a separate Nano Patch+ volume control from the headphone out (with cables of course.) It causes a lot of wire clutter that I'd rather do without. The ZX has a volume pot, that'd simplify things; though I worry that it's of low quality and might track poorly left/right channels on small increments.

I don't suppose you still have that 7850 around, and would be willing to uninstall the GTX660 and put the 7850 back in for me and tell me if it still makes noise, would you ocellaris? :D
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Sold the 7850 already, sorry.

Also I had the noise on the headphone out with the Recon 3D, so maybe it was a different issue.
 
I got this noise too with my recon3d card and it started after I got my gtx660ti. I thought it was the video card causing problems and went back to my gtx560 to find noise was still there. pulled sound card and noise stopped. why in the heck would the noise just start out of the blue after all of those months? my last card, xfi XtremeGamer, started making static noise after a few months so I am about tired of wasting money on cards.

I cant really live with onboard sound though because it just does not get loud enough and it just does not sound crisp and clear enough. anyway I ordered http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005FKT70O/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00 so I will see how that works for me. I think I might start a thread about that since I dont really see anyone else discussing it.
 
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cannondale06 said:
I got this noise too with my recon3d card and it started after I got my gtx660ti. I thought it was the video card causing problems and went back to my gtx560 to find noise was still there. pulled sound card and noise stopped. why in the heck would the noise just start out of the blue after all of those months? my last card, xfi XtremeGamer, started making static noise after a few months so I am about tired of wasting money on cards.

I cant really live with onboard sound though because it just does not get loud enough and it just does not sound crisp and clear enough. anyway I ordered http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005FKT70O/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00 so I will see how that works for me. I think I might start a thread about that since I dont really see anyone else discussing it.
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Capacitor wear maybe, but I kind of doubt it. USB is likely going to have the same noise without any type of galvanic isolation, if the noise is happening with system activity. A lot of things can be the culprit, one of the most common being power supplies with active PFC, the other being a virtual ground poorly implemented in the circuit design. Firewire with it's own wall wart (so that it cuts off the ground leg in the firewire cable) or toslink to an external DAC is really the only sure fire way to get rid of that noise, within reasonable expenditure. There are all sorts of galvanic USB isolation boxes you can buy, but they're often more expensive than the interface you're using to begin with. The prosumer audio interfaces usually use more opamps in the filter stage before the DAC implementation (less discrete) compared to consumer cards -- so the noise is probably still there, but completely filtered out.

In my system, Asus Xonar STX, Asus U3, Creative Recon3D Fatal1ty, and Creative SoundBlaster Go! all had noise when I moved my mouse in my speakers. My old Auzentech Forte 7.1 did not, but it ended up having the ground hum issue without tape on the chassis slot, and eventually just outright started crackling, which is why I moved to the Recon3D. It's not a BIOS setting issue either, all of that crap is disabled on my system, and I have tried it the other way around.

I hope my hunch is wrong about that USB Recon3D having noise too, cannondale06 :(
 
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no interference noise at the moment with USB Recon3D and it works just like my pci-e card worked.
 
I tried the Sound Blaster ZX and still had the same buzzing noise as with my Recon3d card so that means the issue is with my pc. lol, I really wish I had not thrown the Recon3d card in the garbage now. still I cant figure out why I started getting interference out of the blue a few weeks ago but at least the USB Recon3d works perfectly with no noise at all.


now to send the Sound Blaster ZX back to newegg...
 
Interference can also travel from the video card(s) to the sound card(s) via their respective PCI brackets, especially within steel cases with little or no paint on the PCI slot shield.

Auzentech (now-defunct) had several cards which were notoriously susceptible to this, and I am sure they are/were not the only brand to not properly isolate the bracket and jack grounds. I remember solving this issue with my Forte using a combination of a thin nylon washer between the card's bracket and the shield and a Lian-Li rubberized thumb screw (the kind normally used to prevent transmitting hard drive vibrations) to secure the bracket.

Edit: Sigh, and I fed the necrobump.
 
TESLA said:
Interference can also travel from the video card(s) to the sound card(s) via their respective PCI brackets, especially within steel cases with little or no paint on the PCI slot shield.

Auzentech (now-defunct) had several cards which were notoriously susceptible to this, and I am sure they are/were not the only brand to not properly isolate the bracket and jack grounds. I remember solving this issue with my Forte using a combination of a thin nylon washer between the card's bracket and the shield and a Lian-Li rubberized thumb screw (the kind normally used to prevent transmitting hard drive vibrations) to secure the bracket.

Edit: Sigh, and I fed the necrobump.
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I'm not sure how I can do any of these mods. All the relevant parts in the case and in the sound card look very tightly put together with no gaps. My case does have a thick layer of paint or power coat. I never had this problem before with the same case and PSU. I changed my motherboard and CPU recently.
 
I found out that it's actually coil whine and not EMI. I can physically hear the exact same noise with the intensity varying as I move the mouse. I seems to be coming from the PSU. I don't know how it's getting transferred to the sound card though.
 
ocellaris said:
Problem resolved by dropping my Radeon 7850 2GB for a GTX 660 2GB and getting a Sound Blaster Z to replace the Recon 3D.

Not sure which part fixed the issue.
Click to expand...

The base Recon3D lacks the shielding the Fatality Pro (which I have) included.

It is for just that reason that I recommend the Fatality Pro as the BASE sound card worth considering if you need to go with a PCI Express audio solution (in addition to the out-of-box Windows and Linux support).

Also, it can go ABOVE the graphics card (in that PCI Express x1 slot) without quibblage (in terms of either address interference OR airflow issues) - something which can't always be said of PCI Express cards (or even PCI cards back before PCI Express) next to GPUs (to either side).
 
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