A rational argument why Nintendo will not survive to 2015.

It's a simple equation.

1. Mothers will hate the WiiU that adds an expensive glass screened eminently breakable 'master' controller guaranteed to incite hard fought 'keep away' battles among siblings/friends when more than one child is playing on top of the usual clutter of Nintendo controllers that get stepped on, lost, broken and need replacement. The 'master' controller is also big and heavy enough to do some damage when used as an offensive weapon in a fight for control. The Xbox Kinect was the fastest selling electronics device ever for a reason - mothers ... nothing to fight over, step on, break, get lost, need replacing and clutter up the place. That's something mothers everywhere can fall deeply in love with.

2. The WiiU with it's learning curve complexity and comparatively high cost will turn off what remains of the new 'casual' gaming demographic the Wii brought into existence that long ago put their Wii's in a drawer or closet and now game on their smart phones or tablets. The WiiU offers that demographic zilch. Which is what WiiU sales will be to that demographic.

3. The hard core gamers are self explanatory. The WiiU will only capture a very small percentage of those with the Xbox Next and PS4 just around the corner.

4. That leaves the core Nintendo fan boys who will buy whatever Nintendo puts out pushing sales for the first few months and then start tapering off as those unsatiated fan boy numbers steadily diminish. They'll diminish even faster if Microsoft presents some mind blowing Kinect 2 capabilities during the January shows creating a firestorm of interest, after which WiiU sales will fall off a cliff and all eyes and attention turn to the next gen consoles from Microsoft and Sony. Holiday season 2013 will not provide a respite as anyone still on the fence will succumb to the siren call of the Xbox 720 or PS4. If the PS4 slips into 2014 Microsoft will be happy to offer both a cheap TV/Casual gaming console or a more expensive full on hard core gaming console both affordable with low down, extended contracts pricing and both offering mind blowing Kinect 2 capabilities and experiences.

The WiiU was a gargantuan face plant created by Nintendo's extremely conservative and hubristic top brass in Japan. It's handheld hardware will steadily lose ground to smartphones and tablets, including an Xbox tablet strongly rumored to be in development and launching next year.

Nintendo's console is toast as will be very clear by this time next year when it's weekly sales are counted in the low five digits and it's stock will be mercilessly hammered. Nintendo is currently operating in the red to the tune of half a billion U.S. dollars a year, which stream of red ink will turn into a raging river as WiiU hardware and software sales dry up.

It doesn't take a crystal ball to discern that in two or three years Nintendo's will be out of the hardware business and be busy leveraging it's IP to make games for other systems ... if it survives at all and it's IP isn't bought up by someone else.

Keep in mind how FAST things move these days. Four years ago Nokia and RIM ruled the smartphone market. Nintendo coming out with an updated console in 2014 in 2015 is moot. Even if there was some magnitude 8 shake-up in the boardroom (hopefully nowhere near Fukushima, unleashing 50 Chernobyl's on the world for the next several centuries), Nintendo has no chance of ever catching up with Microsoft and Sony.

For that matter Sony, in it's ever more precarious financial position, will be hard pressed to stay in the game against what is looking to be a Microsoft next gen juggernaut with a two tier hardware offering, more powerful console, better ecosystem, Kinect 2 and a low down/extended contract pricing model that allows pretty much anyone to afford to buy into their gaming ecosystem.

If Nintendo survives at all it will be as a game developer for other systems. If it's board continues it's hubristic ways, Nintendo will likely cease to exist as a separate corporate entity.

I don't totally disagree, but if the primary point of Nintendo's doom is the fact that mother's can't control their children, I think Nintendo will do just fine selling replacement master Wii controllers.

People have been making these claims for years. I doubt Nintendo will go out for a long while yet.

Dark Shade said:

I don't totally disagree, but if the primary point of Nintendo's doom is the fact that mother's can't control their children, I think Nintendo will do just fine selling replacement master Wii controllers.

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This.

Nowadays parents spoil their children so bad (how many 10yr-old kids walk around with brand new iphones) that if the controller breaks, they'll just buy another one.

Dark Shade said:

I don't totally disagree, but if the primary point of Nintendo's doom is the fact that mother's can't control their children, I think Nintendo will do just fine selling replacement master Wii controllers.

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Children will be children. Or more to the point, these days children will increasingly be ADHD children. Adding an expensive glass screened 'master' controller to that mix is not something a moderately wise mother would do, and those that do add a WiiU to that mix will wise up very very quickly. At $150 a wack I think Nintendo will selling damn few replacement master controllers. Particularly when that amount of money can buy into a controller free Xbox TV console with a KInect 2 and a wide array of casual and children friendly games ,,, along with an extensive audio and video entertainment ecosystem.

Lots of parents have no problem buying tablets, iPods, and smartphones for their kids. Price and learning curve are not big issues.
Nintendo hasn't catered to the "hard-core gamer" demographic since the SuperNES. They know they can't compete against MS or Sony, so they stick to what's made them successful the past decade.
I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo came out with an enhanced WiiU GamePad Plus (full standalone tablet/DS capabilities) to fend off the rumored Xbox Tablet. Nintendo historically has multiple hardware refreshes for their handheld devices and controllers.

It's the decay of PC gaming we need to worry about, since most PC games are sloppy-seconds console ports.

Quicksilver_ said:

People have been making these claims for years. I doubt Nintendo will go out for a long while yet.

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Thank you, a vague generalization is always useful and much appreciated!

Nintendo has some challenges to overcome, but I'm not sure I agree with all of your points.

Nintendo's biggest mistake is calling it the Wii-U. The horrible advertisements make it look like yet another add-on to the Wii, and it's much more.

The 'master' controller is also big and heavy enough to do some damage when used as an offensive weapon in a fight for control.

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This makes me think you haven't tried the controller yet. It's actually very light. While I haven't weighed it, I think it's lighter than a Wii-mote. It's also pretty durable.

I'm also not sure what you mean by saying the Wii-U has a complex learning curve. Insert game, click game, play game. It isn't any different than the other systems (allthough you could argue it's easier than trying to find an xbox live game you haven't played in a while...).

Nintendo will make hardware even if the Wii-U fails. You can make all the hand held systems you want, but for some reason, you can't touch a nintendo handheld.

I'm not sure where your rational arguments are, as this reads like an xbox fan trying to bash Nintendo (with a little dig at sony). However, your message sounds a lot like everything that people said about the Xbox 360 when it launched so far ahead of the other consoles in it's generation, and it's doing pretty good. Only time will tell, though.

Sabre said:

This.

Nowadays parents spoil their children so bad (how many 10yr-old kids walk around with brand new iphones) that if the controller breaks, they'll just buy another one.

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The tween and teen demographic isn't all that into Nintendo anymore. Apple or Xbox logos are all the rage these days, the 'in' thing. Kinect 2 will only be gasoline on that fire. Come Holiday season 2013, Kinect 2 will far and away be the must have gear.

spigzone said:

Thank you, a vague generalization is always useful and much appreciated!

Click to expand...

It doesn't take a crystal ball to discern that in two or three years Nintendo's will be out of the hardware business and be busy leveraging it's IP to make games for other systems

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and this isn't? This doesn't even sound like a hypothesis, more like something you want to happen. These are same arguments repeated decade after decade, and Nintendo survive blow after blow. Nothing claimed here is new or anything less than the usual self indulgent "kids these days" rants I see all the time. I'm honestly ashamed of my own generation forgetting how terrible many of them were as kids.

Quicksilver_ said:

and this isn't? This doesn't even sound like a hypothesis, more like something you want to happen. These are same arguments repeated decade after decade, and Nintendo survive blow after blow. Nothing claimed here is new or anything less than the usual self indulgent "kids these days" rants I see all the time. I'm honestly ashamed of my own generation forgetting how terrible many of them were as kids.

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I don't own a console and probably won't. I just enjoy the mental exercise of extrapolating from data to hand. I do so across an array of subjects. This is just my look at the future of consoles based on pertinent information I've gleaned from various sources and it appears here because this is one of my favorite tech sites.

What would be nice would be specific rational thoughtful arguments speaking to specific points I raised.

Nintendophone is the answer!

Demon10000 said:

Nintendo has some challenges to overcome, but I'm not sure I agree with all of your points.

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Nintendo's biggest mistake is calling it the Wii-U. The horrible advertisements make it look like yet another add-on to the Wii, and it's much more.

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People can't discern the difference between a new console and an add on to an existing console?

This makes me think you haven't tried the controller yet. It's actually very light. While I haven't weighed it, I think it's lighter than a Wii-mote. It's also pretty durable.

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A quick google search puts the WiiU controller at approx. 3-5x the weight of the Wii-mote.

I'm also not sure what you mean by saying the Wii-U has a complex learning curve. Insert game, click game, play game. It isn't any different than the other systems (allthough you could argue it's easier than trying to find an xbox live game you haven't played in a while...).

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Each WiiU game requires learning how the screen controller interfaces with the TV screen for that game. The reviews I read indicated every game handled this differently. That's a lot of learning curves and is far more complex than learning the Wii was. The simplicity of the Wii controller was it's hook to break into a new demographic.

Nintendo will make hardware even if the Wii-U fails. You can make all the hand held systems you want, but for some reason, you can't touch a nintendo handheld.

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Nintendo is a corporation. If it's gushing red ink, as it will if the WiiU fails, and it's handhelds are steadily losing ground to smartphones and tablets, as is happening in the real world, and investors see no future profit light at the end of the tunnel, it's stock will tank, hard, and investors will force Nintendo sell itself off to salvage what they can. Keep in mind Nintendo is a one trick pony and if it's one trick stops working, that's all she wrote.

I'm not sure where your rational arguments are, as this reads like an xbox fan trying to bash Nintendo (with a little dig at sony). However, your message sounds a lot like everything that people said about the Xbox 360 when it launched so far ahead of the other consoles in it's generation, and it's doing pretty good. Only time will tell, though.

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I just enjoy the mental process of extrapolating from data and information gleaned. I do so across a spectrum of interests. This is just one of them.

I do not own a console and am not interested in owning one. This is just my reasoning based on data to hand on the future of consoles. It is what it is. I let the chips fall as they will. That it is interpreted as bashing or targeting says more about those who see it that way and is incidental to what I am doing.

If you were to argue specific points with specific rational arguments this would be far more fun, interesting and informative.

bloodypulp said:

Lots of parents have no problem buying tablets, iPods, and smartphones for their kids. Price and learning curve are not big issues.
Nintendo hasn't catered to the "hard-core gamer" demographic since the SuperNES. They know they can't compete against MS or Sony, so they stick to what's made them successful the past decade.
I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo came out with an enhanced WiiU GamePad Plus (full standalone tablet/DS capabilities) to fend off the rumored Xbox Tablet. Nintendo historically has multiple hardware refreshes for their handheld devices and controllers.

It's the decay of PC gaming we need to worry about, since most PC games are sloppy-seconds console ports.

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Children with tablets, iPods and smartphones are far more likely to be into the Xbox than Nintendo. Ask the tweens and early teens you know which they prefer.

You know that picture of Gabe newell swimming in money? Well imagine that but with a 100 million screaming japanese kids dancing in the background and gangnam style playing in the background. Thats Nintendo. They'll be selling consoles long after the apocalypse.

Yeah, Nintendo could never survive having one of their consoles not be the most sold. N64 and Gamecube killed them off years ago. Actually, scratch that, Virtual Boy was the one that sealed their fate.

Uhhhhhhhhh, Nintendo is the only company out of the three that has been profiting on their systems for the last....hmmm decade? Nintendo isn't going anywhere even if WiiU flops

If the WiiU doesn't outsell ps4 and xbox?

SEPPUKU!

Dreaz said:

Uhhhhhhhhh, Nintendo is the only company out of the three that has been profiting on their systems for the last....hmmm decade? Nintendo isn't going anywhere even if WiiU flops

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And that's not even including DS/3DS sales

Beyond my general dissatisfaction with the current OS, I'm also kind of wondering about the name. I haven't seen many commercials and I did witness a fair amount of confusion the other day at Target. Normal customers didn't really know the difference and I even overheard "he already has a Wii" at least once in a quick conversation.

I don't think Nintendo themselves is in any kind of trouble, but I'm not sure the WiiU will be a success. It's definitely not any more "next gen" than my other systems.

I had my doubts because I haven't really touched nintendo in years, but man... Co-Op HD Mario is fun as hell

JayJapanB said:

If the WiiU doesn't outsell ps4 and xbox?

SEPPUKU!

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Heh, Wii U sales currently trail Microsoft's 7 year old Xbox 360. Against next gen consoles Wii U sales will hit a cement wall.

Dreaz said:

Uhhhhhhhhh, Nintendo is the only company out of the three that has been profiting on their systems for the last....hmmm decade? Nintendo isn't going anywhere even if WiiU flops

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I think this chart shows the difference quite well in operating income that Nintendo has compared to Sony and Microsoft:


source: http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=19625436&postcount=90 Though it's a forum post the numbers seem to match up (including the 2011 figures)

From Nintendo's Annual Financial Report for 2011 we know that back in March of 2011, they had 812.8 billion Yen ($9.61 billion dollars) in cash and deposits.

Assuming that somehow Nintendo does run out of cash in 2015, that would average out to a loss of 270.93 billion yen ($3.2 billion) each year. Their recent six month report showed that they had a net loss of 27.996 billion Yen ($0.33 billion dollars), so if you extrapolated that loss into a full year it would be 55.992 billion Yen ($0.66 billion dollars).

Basically, you're saying that Nintendo will do 5x as badly as they have for this previous six month period and will continue to do so for the next three years. I'm not sure that the Wii U will sell well or be successful, but IMO Nintendo is in a fairly good position to stay alive regardless of the outcome.

I knew Nintendo had a lot of cash on hand, but I didn't realize just how much till this thread peaked my curiosity.

Dreaz said:

Uhhhhhhhhh, Nintendo is the only company out of the three that has been profiting on their systems for the last....hmmm decade? Nintendo isn't going anywhere even if WiiU flops

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Not any longer. Nintendo itself says it's losing money on every console sold hoping to make it up with software sales.

The good news is the 7 year old Xbox 360 is currently outselling the brand new 'next gen' Wii U on a regular basis so Nintendo will not be losing as much money as they could be.

The bad news is the 7 year old Xbox 360 is currently outselling the brand new 'next gen' Wii U on a regular basis, which doesn't paint a rosy picture for future hardware sales when Microsoft's and Sony's actual next gen consoles are released, portending a notably diminished future Wii U install base and consequent future software sales. Along about the time Wii U hardware costs are reduced to a point Nintendo no longer loses money on each one sold Wii U sales will have tanked.

Even half assed AAA ports from the Microsoft/Sony/PC developers will dry up followed by Nintendo's infamous half assed third party developers who will turn their attention elsewhere.

According to Nintendo 3DS hardware just returned to profitability after the drastic price cut it was forced to make to goose sales, making the point sales are very price sensitive. 2013 will see a flood of pretty damned good $99 to $150 android tablets. Pretty compelling for price sensitive gamers looking at a vast ecosystem of free and $.99 games. For the less price sensitive consumer, Apple alone is projected to sell 100 million iPad tablets in 2013. Lord knows how many smartphones will be sold. Not many of those buyers will be in the market for a 3DS.

Just not seeing the light at the end of the Nintendo tunnel.

Neb said:

I think this chart shows the difference quite well in operating income that Nintendo has compared to Sony and Microsoft:

source: http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=19625436&postcount=90 Though it's a forum post the numbers seem to match up (including the 2011 figures)

From Nintendo's Annual Financial Report for 2011 we know that back in March of 2011, they had 812.8 billion Yen ($9.61 billion dollars) in cash and deposits.

Assuming that somehow Nintendo does run out of cash in 2015, that would average out to a loss of 270.93 billion yen ($3.2 billion) each year. Their recent six month report showed that they had a net loss of 27.996 billion Yen ($0.33 billion dollars), so if you extrapolated that loss into a full year it would be 55.992 billion Yen ($0.66 billion dollars).

Basically, you're saying that Nintendo will do 5x as badly as they have for this previous six month period and will continue to do so for the next three years. I'm not sure that the Wii U will sell well or be successful, but IMO Nintendo is in a fairly good position to stay alive regardless of the outcome.

I knew Nintendo had a lot of cash on hand, but I didn't realize just how much till this thread peaked my curiosity.

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Investors are only interested in future growth and profits. The six year old Xbox 360 outselling Nintendo's new console is a klaxon alarm to investors, as reflected in Nintendo's flat stock price following the Wii U's introduction. They are also aware of the intense price pressure being exerted on Nintendo's and Sony's handheld hardware by Android tablets and phones providing more power and better resolution at ever lower price points at a staggering rate. If they see a substantial fall in Wii U sales following Microsoft and Sony introducing their next gen consoles they will flee Nintendo, crashing the stock price, and the remaining investors will put intense pressure on Nintendo to do whatever it takes to return value to investors, who do, after all, OWN the corporation. If Nintendo management can present no viable plan to return to future profitability, investors will demand it be broken up an sold off to enable them to get as much value from their investment as possible. As has happened with companies and corporations innumerable times.

Nintendo USED to have the third largest market cap in Japan. When it's stock price falls below $5, it will be very very far from that. Fifteen years ago Apple teetered on the edge of insolvency. Change happens and it increasing is happening very rapidly. Apple had a Steve Jobs to come to the rescue. Nintendo doesn't. It has a boardroom growing ever older, more deeply conservative and wedded to past successes - hence the Wii U. Nintendo does have enough cash to re-invent itself once again, but it's future will not lie in gaming hardware. That $600 million current year loss can turn into a billion dollar plus arterial gusher PDQ and if investors see that stockpiled cash, THEIR money, going up in smoke, they are going to move to preserve their investment.That arterial bleeding can be reversed, but will require a Nintendo far more nimble and fast acting that it is at present.

Not seeing the Nintendo upside here.

I see allot of fail here.
Nintendo will be fine. The console is not hard to use proved by how easy my kids and my 5 year old nephew picked it up and started playing it.

If you have seen any drop tests you would know the game pad is really tough.

The screen is just like the DS and other Nintendo handheld screens so it will be OK.

These same arguments are made back when the 360 and PS3 launched, I have launch video from the 360 where these so called game experts said these same things about the next gen at that time and it all worked out.

The only gaming in real danger is PC gaming.

PC gaming has turned into an elitist high end and to high price of entry game.

Just look at the reviews here all I read is complaint after complaint about image quality and frame rates but very little about the game play. Maybe if graphics cards and other parts to play pc games weren't so expensive PC gaming would be doing better.

And any real hard core gamer will have all consoles and game on a PC as well and have their choice of which is best to play any game that comes out.

I think if some people around here spent more time playing and less benchmarking they might actually enjoy some of the great games that are available across all these platforms.

And if I had to call out any game company as to which would be in any real danger I'd say Sony is in more trouble than anybody. But until that happens I'll enjoy all these great ways to play games.

1) Not really that breakable, look up the tests.

2) Steep learning curve? seriously? have you used the controller in any game? do you have any base at all? because quite honestly, it is anything BUT steep.

3) "Hard Core" gamers are a very small margin, as shown by any financial analysis of the Big 3.

4) Look, i can blow stuff from my behind too with no basis at all! I will call it the WiiUMotionTec 9001!

-.-

You think that you made a point, but you didn't... at all.

I want them to succeed in a bad way but I must admit I do have my doubts about their longevity. IMHO I think the Wii-U is probably their last console. Make or break.

I hope those doubts are dashed.

Q-BZ said:

I want them to succeed in a bad way but I must admit I do have my doubts about their longevity. IMHO I think the Wii-U is probably their last console. Make or break.

I hope those doubts are dashed.

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Funny people said the same thing when the N64 launched and then when the game cube launched.

This system will do fine it play Wii games uses Wii accessories that people already have. It is very fun to play and the games will get better.

Launch games for the 360 and PS3 were the same, EA first entries were watered down just like now. And the first titles for those two were low quality compared to the games they have now and the Wii U launch game match their current level so you know they will get better in visual quality.

I think this site is full of allot of people who need to take a break from gaming to step back a bit and re discover what it is they loved about gaming in general. I did this a few years back when PC gaming became a benchmark fest and hardware purchasing addiction to me and it helped immensely.

i love the nintendo goes under theories.

theyre the only ones that sell their consoles at a profit. sony and microsoft are consistently bleeding...


wii u is sold at a loss and then makes a profit after one game sold. so its basically sold at a profit because nobody buys it and doesnt buy any games.

Nintendo will be fine. They've never really been that great at making hardware anyway what they do make and make well is software and not just any software, widely recognized gaming icons that they've created over the years. So unless their is a short supply of kids between now and 2015, Nintendo will continue to do do. Not to mention they will eventually start turning profits on the hardware they are selling.

HisSvt76 said:

The only gaming in real danger is PC gaming.

PC gaming has turned into an elitist high end and to high price of entry game.

Just look at the reviews here all I read is complaint after complaint about image quality and frame rates but very little about the game play. Maybe if graphics cards and other parts to play pc games weren't so expensive PC gaming would be doing better.

And any real hard core gamer will have all consoles and game on a PC as well and have their choice of which is best to play any game that comes out.

Click to expand...

Proof of that claim?

Only ignorance thinks you need to build a top of the line PC to handle the console ported games today.

You are right. People are complaining that a PC that's multiple times more powerful than the PS3 and 360 combined still have image quality and graphics that are just marginally better.

Software is holding PC gaming back and their is no short supply of gaming capable PCs.

lol at thinking PC gaming is dying.

HisSvt76 said:

I see allot of fail here.
Nintendo will be fine. The console is not hard to use proved by how easy my kids and my 5 year old nephew picked it up and started playing it.

If you have seen any drop tests you would know the game pad is really tough.

The screen is just like the DS and other Nintendo handheld screens so it will be OK.

These same arguments are made back when the 360 and PS3 launched, I have launch video from the 360 where these so called game experts said these same things about the next gen at that time and it all worked out..

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Five years ago Nokia and RIM ruled smartphones.

The only gaming in real danger is PC gaming.

PC gaming has turned into an elitist high end and to high price of entry game.

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Guess that explains this ... "Valve reports seventh year of 100% sales growth on Steam" http://www.gamesradar.com/valve-reports-seventh-year-100-sales-growth-steam/

And any real hard core gamer will have all consoles and game on a PC as well and have their choice of which is best to play any game that comes out.

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Not exactly Nintendo's demographic. Hard core gamers like playing hard core games, not Nintendo's forte.

I think if some people around here spent more time playing and less benchmarking they might actually enjoy some of the great games that are available across all these platforms.

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It's possible to do both.

And if I had to call out any game company as to which would be in any real danger I'd say Sony is in more trouble than anybody. But until that happens I'll enjoy all these great ways to play games.

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Can't disagree with that. Doesn't mean Nintendo is also steadily motoring into dire straits.

Skillz said:

Proof of that claim?

Only ignorance thinks you need to build a top of the line PC to handle the console ported games today.

You are right. People are complaining that a PC that's multiple times more powerful than the PS3 and 360 combined still have image quality and graphics that are just marginally better.

Software is holding PC gaming back and their is no short supply of gaming capable PCs.

lol at thinking PC gaming is dying.

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I agree with the port of your statement as a whole. PC gaming is thriving especially with hardware capabilities and pricing.


however... console ports blow and generally run terribly even on good hardware.





anyways. both have a place.. consoles are inexpensive, they're user friendly and they have good graphics to the common household user. to you and I? I play battlefield 3 on ultra at 1200p, so I know what good and bad is heh

dremic said:

i love the nintendo goes under theories.

theyre the only ones that sell their consoles at a profit. sony and microsoft are consistently bleeding...

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Considering Nintendo is currently selling it's console at a loss and both Microsoft and Sony are currently selling their consoles at a profit, you arrived at that conclusion pulling what out of where?

Consoles just have a cheaper entry price; over the long run PCs have a better price.

spigzone said:

Considering Nintendo is currently selling it's console at a loss and both Microsoft and Sony are currently selling their consoles at a profit, you arrived at that conclusion pulling what out of where?

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Read the rest of his post.

He says in the last sentence that the WiiU is sold at a loss, but that loss is immediately made up as soon as the person who bought the WiiU buys software for it.

Skillz said:

Consoles just have a cheaper entry price; over the long run PCs have a better price.

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i know I spend significantly less on software purchases thats for sure. I think thats the biggest way I save with PC gaming.


but my hardware is considerably more expensive then just buying a 200$ xbox. i think everybody owns a tv. if they dont they dont want an xbox hah

Skillz said:

Proof of that claim?

Only ignorance thinks you need to build a top of the line PC to handle the console ported games today.

You are right. People are complaining that a PC that's multiple times more powerful than the PS3 and 360 combined still have image quality and graphics that are just marginally better.

Software is holding PC gaming back and their is no short supply of gaming capable PCs.

lol at thinking PC gaming is dying.

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True that. I play Skyrim at 1080P on Ultra settings with a lot of mods running with a $200 7870.

dremic said:

i know I spend significantly less on software purchases thats for sure. I think thats the biggest way I save with PC gaming.


but my hardware is considerably more expensive then just buying a 200$ xbox. i think everybody owns a tv. if they dont they dont want an xbox hah

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Well the 360 requires you to pay to play online, so that's another way you save playing on the PC.

Additionally, you really only need ~$600 to build a gaming PC to play any game out today. Might not be able to max out the graphics on all the games but they'd look no worse than they do on any one of the current generation consoles.

Like you said, since most people already have a TV, we can assume that it's a HD 720P or 1080P TV with HDMI or DVI connections; so we can eliminate the price of a monitor from that ~$600 budget.

With the recent launch of Steams Big Picture mode, it will make playing your PC on your comfy couch with your big TV much more enjoyable now.

Skillz said:

Consoles just have a cheaper entry price; over the long run PCs have a better price.

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No way. I enjoy playing games on both, but consoles are cheaper in both areas. A video card upgrade after a couple of years is almost required for PC gaming (if you care at all about using decent settings), and a decent one of those costs as much as buying another console. The only area where the PC wins hands down is software prices. Steam sales and whatnot are amazing.