Apple CEO Compares Surface To A Flying Car

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What do you say about a competitor's product that you've never used? How about that it is confusing....like a car that flies and floats. Ummm, what?!?

It's a "fairly compromised, confusing product," said Cook, who added that he hasn't used one yet. "One of the toughest things you do with what product to make, is to make hard trade-offs and decide what a product should be, and we've really done that with the iPad, so the user experience is incredible. I suppose you could design a car that flies and floats, but I don't think it would do all of those things very well."
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Apple is smartly using the complaints against the new UI and using it as foil. But if Windows 8 does catch on it will be interesting to see how they respond.
 
Is he talking about the keyboard? He is aware that is a very popular accessory for the iPad, right?
 
I love the design of Surface, built in kickstand, snap on cover that's a keyboard, it may seem like a simple thing, but for making a tablet functional as a laptop replacement they are oh so important things. I want to throw away my laptops and use this instead, it's perfect.
 
Cook better keep his yap shut, he's close to sticking his foot in his apple pie hole.

I watched the whole Windows 8 keynote today and love the new Surface tablet. Now this is a tablet I can use and see purchasing for home and for work.
 
Watch their next version of the iPad is going to have a near identical snap on keyboard accessory and a built in kickstand on their iPad.
 
I think Apple should hold their horses when it comes to the surface, the Modern UI might have its detractors when it comes to the desktop, but its perfect for the surface, they should remember that the only part of Windows 8 that numerous developers are against is the Windows AppStore, if MS loosens its tight Policies on the Windows AppStore, Apple should have a real competitor on its hand.

and besides, isnt a Flying Car the future? ;)
 
As much as I think the metro Ul is an annoying waste on a desktop it really could make the surface the tablet/laptop to beat if it starts to catch on. Personally I don't have and will likely never buy a tablet. I have a phone that does the same thing, but something that's a tablet and a laptop would be very useful.
 
I suppose you could design a car that flies and floats, but I don't think it would do all of those things very well."
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Wasn't this the same argument with the smart phones?

Yeah you can look at the internet, make calls, take pictures, type stuff, but it doesn't do any of those very good when you compare it to a computer, a phone, a camera or a keyboard.
 
Oh, the CEO of Apple has a negative opinion of a competitor's product that he hasn't even used. Yawn.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Yeah you can look at the internet, make calls, take pictures, type stuff, but it doesn't do any of those very good when you compare it to a computer, a phone, a camera or a keyboard.
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This is a generic criticism that is ALWAYS made against hybrid products. "No, you can't do that because a refrigerator is a refrigerator and a freezer is a freezer." Whether or not a hybrid is successful has little to do with any design principle, its all a matter of price and convenience. If people need and want laptops and need and want tablets if the price is right then I think hybrids will do very well.

Right now the pricing is a bit on the high side for many when you look at a ARM power Surface that's more expensive then middle of the road laptops with significantly less performance, though much lighter and battery efficient.
 
I've used the Surface Tablets. They are freaking awesome. Windows 8 for Tablets is fantastic, truly. It's got some quirks but they will be fixed in short time I'm sure, and with it Windows 8 will be Apple's biggest tablet competitor by far.

As for desktop use, I kind of like it - when you get used to it, it can be nice, and refreshing. But, it's got a lot of problems that aren't intuitive for desktop use. I won't be upgrading yet.
 
heatlesssun said:
This is a generic criticism that is ALWAYS made against hybrid products. "No, you can't do that because a refrigerator is a refrigerator and a freezer is a freezer." Whether or not a hybrid is successful has little to do with any design principle, its all a matter of price and convenience. If people need and want laptops and need and want tablets if the price is right then I think hybrids will do very well.

Right now the pricing is a bit on the high side for many when you look at a ARM power Surface that's more expensive then middle of the road laptops with significantly less performance, though much lighter and battery efficient.
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It sucks as a touch OS and it sucks as a desktop OS.

The touch half of it doesn't compare to Android in terms of flexibility and customizability (let me know when I can replace the kernel and gain a 400mhz overclock in the process). It also restricts the user's freedom in unacceptable ways.

The desktop half is useless when used on a tablet (I HAVE used Windows tablets including Windows 8 tablets and using desktop programs in touch mode is masochistic, at best) and is crippled when used on a desktop because you are forced to wade through a cumbersome tablet optimized interface. And they still haven't fixed many of the annoyances of Windows : The constant rebooting, the constant need to hunt for drivers, the lack of proper 64-bit applications.

In addition, they have also made the interface an eyesore. All of this no-contrast white hurts my eyes; the high contrast is equally ugly and don't get me started on Office 2013 which is like having your eyes bleached.
 
Brent_Justice said:
I love the design of Surface, built in kickstand, snap on cover that's a keyboard, it may seem like a simple thing, but for making a tablet functional as a laptop replacement they are oh so important things. I want to throw away my laptops and use this instead, it's perfect.
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Im with you on this Surface looks amazing. I am not really a tablet fan but i do like surface. Apple is jealous
 
damicatz said:
The touch half of it doesn't compare to Android in terms of flexibility and customizability (let me know when I can replace the kernel and gain a 400mhz overclock in the process).
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Let me know when anyone beside a Linux guy cares.

damicatz said:
The desktop half is useless when used on a tablet (I HAVE used Windows tablets including Windows 8 tablets and using desktop programs in touch mode is masochistic, at best) and is crippled when used on a desktop because you are forced to wade through a cumbersome tablet optimized interface. And they still haven't fixed many of the annoyances of Windows : The constant rebooting, the constant need to hunt for drivers, the lack of proper 64-bit applications.
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Not all x86 tablets are created equal. What Windows tablet did you use with Windows 8? Of course the desktop wasn't designed for touch and some things are much harder to do than others but that would be the case with any keyboard and mouse centric OS with touch. I use the desktop all of the time with touch on my Samsung Series 7 Slate particularly when I want to browse a site that uses plug-ins. With some tweaks to the default Windows element sizes the browser UI isn't unlike that found on iOS and Android, plenty useable. With Office 2013, not all the elements were retrofitted to work well with touch but all the major stuff works fine. I install programs, manage files, remote into machines and even do some minor edits to code when debugging code in Visual Studio 2012 all of the time on the desktop with touch, it's plenty usable with touch when you get the hang of it.

damicatz said:
In addition, they have also made the interface an eyesore. All of this no-contrast white hurts my eyes; the high contrast is equally ugly and don't get me started on Office 2013 which is like having your eyes bleached.
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You obviously haven't seen the Office 2013 RTM that was released on TechNet and MSDN yesterday, there are now two darker themes to address the issue you bring up.
 
4LC4PON3 said:
Im with you on this Surface looks amazing. I am not really a tablet fan but i do like surface. Apple is jealous
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I wouldn't say that they are jealous. I'd say that they are scared.
Once the entire Win 8 environment matures, Apple is in serious trouble.

Although Cook DOES sound like that "me too" kid that everyone hates.
 
heatlesssun said:
Let me know when anyone beside a Linux guy cares.
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There are plenty of Windows users over on XDA. When did computer geekery become a bad thing here?

Not all x86 tablets are created equal. What Windows tablet did you use with Windows 8? Of course the desktop wasn't designed for touch and some things are much harder to do than others but that would be the case with any keyboard and mouse centric OS with touch. I use the desktop all of the time with touch on my Samsung Series 7 Slate particularly when I want to browse a site that uses plug-ins. With some tweaks to the default Windows element sizes the browser UI isn't unlike that found on iOS and Android, plenty useable. With Office 2013, not all the elements were retrofitted to work well with touch but all the major stuff works fine. I install programs, manage files, remote into machines and even do some minor edits to code when debugging code in Visual Studio 2012 all of the time on the desktop with touch, it's plenty usable with touch when you get the hang of it.
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The tablet I used was the same, Samsung Series 7 Slate. Try using an ERP system with the touch interface sometime.

I wouldn't even want to attempt to try coding with the touchscreen. I use VIM as my IDE which necessitates a physical keyboard.

You obviously haven't seen the Office 2013 RTM that was released on TechNet and MSDN yesterday, there are now two darker themes to address the issue you bring up.
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I haven't been able to find screenshots and have no desire to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for software I will never use (TechNET or MSDN). If they did actually do this properly, and by that, I mean, not just making it darker but putting back the contrast between sections, then it is at least a step in the right direction.
 
damicatz said:
The tablet I used was the same, Samsung Series 7 Slate. Try using an ERP system with the touch interface sometime.
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And that has nothing to do with Windows and the same UI on a Linux distro would have the same problems with touch wouldn't it? As I said, touch usability is tied to what you're trying to do and not everything is touch useable on the desktop, but plenty. There are pens, tablet doesn't have to be touch only, pens are one of the top selling accessories for the iPad which is supposedly the epitome of a touch only UI.

damicatz said:
I wouldn't even want to attempt to try coding with the touchscreen. I use VIM as my IDE which necessitates a physical keyboard.
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If you're working with debugging a touch app it can be a handy option for minor edits. People seem to always look at input choices as a zero sum 100% time deal, it's not.

damicatz said:
I haven't been able to find screenshots and have no desire to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for software I will never use (TechNET or MSDN). If they did actually do this properly, and by that, I mean, not just making it darker but putting back the contrast between sections, then it is at least a step in the right direction.
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I do try to come into these threads and actually provide factual information from time rather than just bashing the shit out of everything Windows 8/Microsoft.

Original White Theme that was in the preview:
Office%20White%20Theme.jpg


Dark Gray in the RTM:
Office%20Dark%20Gray%20Theme.jpg



Using the Dark Grey theme, much better than the original white, there is a Light Gray theme but I think it's too light still. The Dark Gray is darker then than the Blue and Silver themes in Office 2010 but somewhat lighter than the Black theme in 2010.
 
I think he's simply trying to say that a jack of all trades is a master of none. The Surface is attempting to be both a desktop and tablet at once, and I think he's getting at that (obviously). He's saying it needs to be one or the other if it wants to succeed, and I disagree with him.
 
stop!theradio said:
I think he's simply trying to say that a jack of all trades is a master of none. The Surface is attempting to be both a desktop and tablet at once, and I think he's getting at that (obviously). He's saying it needs to be one or the other if it wants to succeed, and I disagree with him.
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But see, I don't think it is trying to be two things at once. I have a 1st gen iPad and while it's decent for watching movies and very light web browsing (still painful at times), it's still pretty dependent on apps to make it relevant. The fact that there's an app for normal websites that work fine on other devices should tell you something.

In my opinion, the Surface is a new device that stands on its own. A content consumption and creation device that's optimized for portability. One that delivers a full desktopesque browsing experience and computer experience while offering the convenience of a tablet form. Before the Surface, there just weren't any true tablets that could offer the plug and playability the Surface has.

For 90% of all computers users out there, it will do everything they'd ever want to do.
 
coldtortilla said:
Watch their next version of the iPad is going to have a near identical snap on keyboard accessory and a built in kickstand on their iPad.
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I'm sure Apple has already filed the paper work to patent those features :)
 
derek533 said:
But see, I don't think it is trying to be two things at once. I have a 1st gen iPad and while it's decent for watching movies and very light web browsing (still painful at times), it's still pretty dependent on apps to make it relevant. The fact that there's an app for normal websites that work fine on other devices should tell you something.

In my opinion, the Surface is a new device that stands on its own. A content consumption and creation device that's optimized for portability. One that delivers a full desktopesque browsing experience and computer experience while offering the convenience of a tablet form. Before the Surface, there just weren't any true tablets that could offer the plug and playability the Surface has.

For 90% of all computers users out there, it will do everything they'd ever want to do.
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What about run their existing Windows software? Do you honestly expect the average waste of air to understand the difference between Windows 8 and Windows RT? They see Windows and they see a device that looks like a laptop so they are going to expect it to run Windows software. Except that it won't and there will be no opportunity to even port that desktop software because Windows RT is locked down (and dangerous for your freedom).
 
damicatz said:
What about run their existing Windows software? Do you honestly expect the average waste of air to understand the difference between Windows 8 and Windows RT? They see Windows and they see a device that looks like a laptop so they are going to expect it to run Windows software. Except that it won't and there will be no opportunity to even port that desktop software because Windows RT is locked down (and dangerous for your freedom).
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What software do you actually think they won't get use of? I guarantee you a large majority of homes that have computers, only use them for a handful of things all of which can be done on the Surface. Document creation (writing papers), web browsing, social media, pictures, music, movies, games, video chat, etc. What am I missing that the "average user" is going to miss out on?
 
heatlesssun said:
And that has nothing to do with Windows and the same UI on a Linux distro would have the same problems with touch wouldn't it? As I said, touch usability is tied to what you're trying to do and not everything is touch useable on the desktop, but plenty. There are pens, tablet doesn't have to be touch only, pens are one of the top selling accessories for the iPad which is supposedly the epitome of a touch only UI.
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But that's just it. We aren't trying to make One Operating Environment To Rule Them All (TM). If you install a GNU/Linux distribution on a tablet you either get a completely different interface for each formfactor, one that is suited for that formfactor, or you get a unified *single* interface. What you will not find, however (at least in any mainstream distribution) is two disparate interfaces jerry-rigged together in a haphazard fashion.

If you're working with debugging a touch app it can be a handy option for minor edits. People seem to always look at input choices as a zero sum 100% time deal, it's not.
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Easier to debug them in an emulator. I think I've just discovered the first actual (non-gimmicky) use for a touchscreen on a laptop.
 
Langly said:
but... I want a flying car :(. I don't want a surface
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Cook's losing his marbles, if any gadget that costs only a few hundred dollars is half as awesome as a flying, floating car would be I'll be buying that gadget in bulk!
 
stop!theradio said:
I think he's simply trying to say that a jack of all trades is a master of none. The Surface is attempting to be both a desktop and tablet at once, and I think he's getting at that (obviously). He's saying it needs to be one or the other if it wants to succeed, and I disagree with him.
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Exactly, but plenty of people do agree and this is one of the main criticisms of Windows 8 from its opponents. And while I do get the concept, the problem I have is when you actually run apps and programs on a Windows 8/RT device, their behavior is IDENTICAL to corresponding programs either on a desktop or a tablet. I’m specially talking about Windows 8 here but the principle also applies to Windows RT. Once lunched, Office, Photoshop AutoCAD, Eclipse, name your favorite desktop app, runs just as would on Windows 7 as Windows 8. Once launched Angry Birds, Kindle, Netflix, web browser, name your favorite app (and hopefully it will be available in the Windows Store soon) runs analogously on iOS or Android as Windows 8. The highest concentration of function in an OS from the end user perspective is in the apps and programs and where the vast amount of time.

This whole debate over Windows 8 is probably only about a differences in the UI that constitute 5 to 10 percent of the time that typical users interact with a computing device. The key to convergence isn’t the difference, it’s the convenience that using one device where two or more used to be needed brings to users. That question is certainly not clear at this stage with Windows 8, there are the challenges of price, the development of Windows Store apps and refinement of the new UI. But if these things can be addressed effectively in the coming year, Windows 8/RT should do very well.
 
derek533 said:
What software do you actually think they won't get use of? I guarantee you a large majority of homes that have computers, only use them for a handful of things all of which can be done on the Surface. Document creation (writing papers), web browsing, social media, pictures, music, movies, games, video chat, etc. What am I missing that the "average user" is going to miss out on?
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Their existing photo editing software.

Their existing scanning software

Their existing games.

Financial software like Quicken.

A non-crippled version of Office. (See under what features are unavailable).
 
damicatz said:
Their existing photo editing software.

Their existing scanning software

Their existing games.

Financial software like Quicken.

A non-crippled version of Office. (See under what features are unavailable).
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I have no idea what point you're trying to make yet again as there are x86 tablets that address all of these issues. There's choice here, x86 have their draw backs, most people who use tablets and even PCs don't need all of this capability.
 
heatlesssun said:
most people who use tablets and even PCs don't need all of this capability.
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Exactly my point. For people like us, sure we could never fully replace our PC's with a Surface RT. That doesn't mean a very large population of computers users couldn't themselves however.
 
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