Watchdog Calls eBay's User Policy 'Underhanded'

Wait, people still use eBay?

Public Citizen, which called eBay's new user agreement "underhanded," takes issue with a section in eBay's policy that details how eBay and users' will handle legal disputes. In the agreement (scroll down to the section about legal disputes), eBay says that all claims that arise against eBay should be "resolved exclusively through final and binding arbitration," rather than in court. Some users may be able to argue their dispute in small claims court if the claims qualify, the agreement says.

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As much as ebay sucks, it's still useful to get random electronics accessories for say, cellphones.

Most eBay users accept the take-it-or-leave-it contract language without reviewing it, and most don't understand that the forced arbitration clause means they will be shut out of court if they are harmed by company misconduct, particularly when large numbers of users each suffer small-dollar losses," Public Citizen said.

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Most users accept it because they know it's a "take it or leave it" type of contract. They want to use eBay so they basically agree to whatever terms eBay states.

Makes me wonder how legal this tactic would be on say brick & mortar places... "by using our products you agree to... " or "by using our store you agree to..." could stop lots of frivolous lawsuits, while allowing some companies to get away with murder

is there an alternative to ebay? I still use it in a couple of occasions, this is were i brought some cheap refurbished FC cards and fabrics I used for a virtualization project, didn't know people where leaving it

upillar.com - not nearly as populated as ebay though.

Opt-Out Procedure

You can choose to reject this Agreement to Arbitrate ("opt-out") by mailing us a written opt-out notice ("Opt-Out Notice"). For new eBay users, the Opt-Out Notice must be postmarked no later than 30 days after the date you accept the User Agreement for the first time. If you are already a current eBay user and previously accepted the User Agreement prior to the introduction of this Agreement to Arbitrate, the Opt-Out Notice must be postmarked no later than November 9, 2012 .

You must mail the Opt-Out Notice to eBay Inc., c/o National Registered Agents, Inc., 2778 W. Shady Bend Lane, Lehi, UT 84043.

The Opt-Out Notice must state that you do not agree to this Agreement to Arbitrate and must

include your name, address, and the user ID(s) and email address(es) associated with the eBay account(s) to which the opt-out applies. You must sign the Opt-Out Notice for it to be effective.

This procedure is the only way you can opt-out of the Agreement to Arbitrate. If you opt-out of the Agreement to Arbitrate, all other parts of the User Agreement and its Legal Disputes Section will continue to apply to you. Opting out of this Agreement to Arbitrate has no effect on any previous, other, or future arbitration agreements that you may have with us.

you should look and see if your state recognizes binding arbitration clauses. Some don't due to public policy concerns and then it doesn't apply.

Ebay is fine for some things. Like random items of clothing or random items. But I wouldn't use it to buy electronics. Outside of small items like cables. I definately wouldn't use it to sell electronics.

never sold on ebay, bought tons of stuff over many years though. i accepted the agreement, as i only buy very cheap items there like cables and fan filters and trinkets. i accepted the exact same thing from steam a month or two ago, but more because i dont want to lose all my games and i have the utmost respect for valve. if amazon or newegg tries this shit though, i will be PISSED. not because i dont trust them, although i dont trust newegg much any more, but because i often buy like $200+ items there.

I would recommend monoprice.com as an alternative to ebay for cables. The prices are low, maybe not as long as some of the overseas sellers on ebay but you get quality items that are normally have a life-time warranty. Their customer services is great and you avoid running the risk of not getting your stuff.

Term-X said:

As much as ebay sucks, it's still useful to get random electronics accessories for say, cellphones.

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eBay is great for purchases. Less so for sellers.

masterosok said:

I would recommend monoprice.com as an alternative to ebay for cables. The prices are low, maybe not as long as some of the overseas sellers on ebay but you get quality items that are normally have a life-time warranty. Their customer services is great and you avoid running the risk of not getting your stuff.

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except i like getting my cables for $2+$1 shipping instead of $2+$10 shipping. monoprice is really only competitive if you have a big order, especially to me here in hawaii. :/

You agree to arbitration in practically every TOS you agree to, so I'm not sure what makes this case so special.

Term-X said:

As much as ebay sucks, it's still useful to get random electronics accessories for say, cellphones.

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As much as ebay sucks, it is still the monopoly on online auctions.

sfsuphysics said:

Most users accept it because they know it's a "take it or leave it" type of contract. They want to use eBay so they basically agree to whatever terms eBay states.

Makes me wonder how legal this tactic would be on say brick & mortar places... "by using our products you agree to... " or "by using our store you agree to..." could stop lots of frivolous lawsuits, while allowing some companies to get away with murder

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by walking into our motor vehicle store where the floors are covered in motor oil, you hereby agree to not sue based on but not limited to: Busting your ass, breaking your neck, concussion, etc..

I've made more money through eBay than I have ever in the forums here this place is full of low ballers. You want a shitty place to sell stuff just try amazon.

As someone else said I use eBay frequently for small purchases of hard to find items, like specialty fuses and the like. I can get them from Mouser or other places, but if you don't have a distribution licence or whatever they want the shipping costs are stupid.

DeathPrincess said:

Ebay is fine for some things. Like random items of clothing or random items. But I wouldn't use it to buy electronics. Outside of small items like cables. I definately wouldn't use it to sell electronics.

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Or you can stop using eBay altogether... After being ripped off from buying and selling, I no longer use eBay or Paypal. There are plenty of alternatives that offer better service/sales without the bullshit associated with eBay.

My problem with Ebay is that there is no accountability.

Ebay isn't really the company, so they don't care if some of their sellers have bad reputations, they are just a venue.

But Ebay is the one that controls the feedback process for rating the sellers. While they have made improvements, you cannot make any changes or disputes or provide any feedback on sellers more than four months after a purchase. Ebay sellers have recognized this weakness, and proudly boast of 2-5 year warranties that are absolutely free.

Since they don't really have a storefront of their own, and their reputation is not affected after the 4-month mark and people tend to just remember "ebay" and not "XYZ seller", they become unreachable and do not honor their warranties or provide any contact and Ebay will do nothing. And if you think "well, I'll just go to the manufacturer then for warranty", they may not honor the sellers advertised warranty if its longer than theirs and on Ebay there is so much Chinese shit sold that the factory may not even have a customer interface whatsoever (you google them and you'll find the factory in China with a overseas phone number, and if you call it they don't speak English).

Other stores like Home Depot to Amazon to Sears and Walmart and the like rely on long-term customer relationships, and so are FAR superior when it comes to long-term user satisfaction and returns and honoring warranty claims and the like.

A seller tried to rip me off on eBay 5 years ago. PayPal said they would "try" to get my money back. Fortunately I was able to do a charge-back on my credit card. I have not used eBay or PayPal since.

Badger said:

You agree to arbitration in practically every TOS you agree to, so I'm not sure what makes this case so special.

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Because they're not offering free e-mail. There's money involved and some relatively large numbers involved for some people.