The Surround Computing Era: AMD’s View of the Future

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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Mark Papermaster, CTO for Advanced Micro Devices was this year’s keynote speaker at the annual Hot Chips Symposium in Cupertino. The major theme was Surround Computing: AMD’s concept of the future of computing and AMD’s vision of the company’s role in making it happen. Surround Computing will be the collaboration of cloud and client based processing which will tie together technologies and architectures, giving the user a total computing experience.

AMD is leading the quest for devices that understand and anticipate users’ needs, are driven by natural user interfaces, and that disappear seamlessly into the background,” said Papermaster during his opening remarks.
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even though the email, and some aspects of the internet are somewhat "cloud" based, this new idea of what they are pushing to me is for the birds. I like the hardware in my hands. Cloud sounds like an idea to take that oppurtunity away from me which i dont enjoy nor do i like. Private or not, your data is in the hands of another person, entity, machine, or wutever. The internet is all the cloud we need. This new idea seems to be alot in the hands of taking the hardware away from people only to offer some sort of Future stream box. fuck that. and fuck cloud. having the computing power in my hands under my control is what i rather enjoy. anyways, When i am at work i have no time for "mobile" tablets- iphones, cell phones, and all the other crap that is being pushed our way. Desktops do more for me and then some. When i am at work, its well WORK. When i get home, i am not walking around half my life with crap mobile devices...if i need to use technology i look to my desktop for performance and other means. When school, or free time arised, i had my computer....if i needed to do work somewhere else, well there is something there as well. Cloud and the mobile arena have to be the worst ideas i have ever seen come from any style of tech. Ill use my cell "phone" for calls, and cloud only to look up at the sky when i walk outside to see one.
 
over 15 years of working with computers, gaming, and tech. Cloud is bullshit.
 
Cloud computing is a sad reality but its nowhere near ready for wide spread use. Not big enough , not reliable enough and not secure enough. I don't trust my personal and vital information on the Cloud , I trust my personal and vital information in a physical storage media that is locally accessible to me and me only.
 
This concept of "cloud" makes itself obsolete quickly from progress, the fast progress of compute.

Making general purpose compute tasks %100 service based for business/home use will never happen and will only benefit those looking to save %1 on business overhead or console fags that only want convenience.

Thats my opinion.
 
Cloud is a tricky name for offsite data storage where you cannot see others taking a peek at your data. That's like putting your PC outside somewhere using it via WiFi, trusting yourself that nobody will hack or pry inside.

I find it creepy.
 
As I've told you many times. The cloud is a scam. Stay the fuck away from it.
 
From a management/IT perspective, clouds are great. That's why cloud computing and virtualization will be a big hit in the enterprise. For the home user that wants a simple desktop for email/websurfing it will be perfect also. Desktone will be doing this and I'll bet that internet service providers will get in on this as well. $40/month for standard internet service and you can rent a virtual desktop with that for an extra $20/month (or something like that). The service provider manages the desktop pool. Imagine if all the idiots out there used a virtual desktop managed by someone competent instead of getting a Windows/Apple box. Botnets would be a thing of the past.

Power users, of the kind we see on [H], are not the target market for "Desktop as a service". We'll always want a low latency, local hardware type of setup. But think about your parents, grandparents or significant other .... basically anyone for whom you're currently the "IT Guy". All of the their compute needs can be serviced by the cloud and you never get called again to fix their computer for them because of a virus or Windows Update failed or whatever. When they do need help with something you can probably log into their desktop from home and fix it.

Relax, no one's trying to take away your computer.
 
@rdqlus

I totally agree. Some people that have weak puter skills and some companies that don't aspire to rule the world, Yes "cloud" is for them.

"They can have my money, that is all."
 
rdqlus said:
From a management/IT perspective, clouds are great. That's why cloud computing and virtualization will be a big hit in the enterprise. For the home user that wants a simple desktop for email/websurfing it will be perfect also. Desktone will be doing this and I'll bet that internet service providers will get in on this as well. $40/month for standard internet service and you can rent a virtual desktop with that for an extra $20/month (or something like that). The service provider manages the desktop pool. Imagine if all the idiots out there used a virtual desktop managed by someone competent instead of getting a Windows/Apple box. Botnets would be a thing of the past.

Power users, of the kind we see on [H], are not the target market for "Desktop as a service". We'll always want a low latency, local hardware type of setup. But think about your parents, grandparents or significant other .... basically anyone for whom you're currently the "IT Guy". All of the their compute needs can be serviced by the cloud and you never get called again to fix their computer for them because of a virus or Windows Update failed or whatever. When they do need help with something you can probably log into their desktop from home and fix it.

Relax, no one's trying to take away your computer.
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I disagree. Cloud computing is terrible from an enterprise perspective because you have no control over software upgrades or any kind of policy related to data retention or security.

Basically, PHBs have bought into the marketing hype that cloud computing somehow eliminates your need for an IT department. Invariably, this plan to get rid of IT backfires and then they end up having to spend more money to bring in IT people to bail them out. No matter how much you put on the cloud, you still need someone to tend to the idiots that freely handout passwords, install random programs from the internet on their computers and who screw things up.
 
damicatz said:
I disagree. Cloud computing is terrible from an enterprise perspective because you have no control over software upgrades or any kind of policy related to data retention or security.

Basically, PHBs have bought into the marketing hype that cloud computing somehow eliminates your need for an IT department. Invariably, this plan to get rid of IT backfires and then they end up having to spend more money to bring in IT people to bail them out. No matter how much you put on the cloud, you still need someone to tend to the idiots that freely handout passwords, install random programs from the internet on their computers and who screw things up.
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I pretty much agree with this. I frequently see people argue that Cloud-based stuff (SaaS, Off-site storage, rental servers, etc.) is bad because of a network connection loss. Honestly, even if the backend junk is inside the local network, business stops when communications to the outside stops and such outages are pretty rare anyway. The real problem, from an enterprise perspective, is the lack of control over security and risk mitigation methods. Yeah, maybe a cloud provider can do it better by having professional staff, but how can a business subscriber ever know that for certain and how will they know if a data breech has happened if the provider hides that fact? Also, local IT support is still required. For a reasonably sized organization, someone that can physically touch the hardware at the desk is still necessary.
 
I'm so fucking sick of hearing about the shitty ass "cloud". In an age where PC components are so damn cheap, it doesn't seem to make any sense. Distributed computing, on the either hand, makes sense. Parsing out certain work to distributed computing resources on the "cloud" (ie: high CPU) could at times make sense, but building your whole architecture off it is BS.

I makes me sick that AMD is choosing to go this route. I've been a staunch AMD supporter for years, but I'm not so sure anymore....
 
SkribbelKat said:
I pretty much agree with this. I frequently see people argue that Cloud-based stuff (SaaS, Off-site storage, rental servers, etc.) is bad because of a network connection loss. Honestly, even if the backend junk is inside the local network, business stops when communications to the outside stops and such outages are pretty rare anyway. The real problem, from an enterprise perspective, is the lack of control over security and risk mitigation methods. Yeah, maybe a cloud provider can do it better by having professional staff, but how can a business subscriber ever know that for certain and how will they know if a data breech has happened if the provider hides that fact? Also, local IT support is still required. For a reasonably sized organization, someone that can physically touch the hardware at the desk is still necessary.
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My boss actually refuses to touch the cloud. Then again, he is convinced that Microsoft conspires with Intel to use Windows Update to install programs that make his computer slower so he will be forced to upgrade. Patch Tuesdays are always fun.
 
Flapjack said:
I'm so fucking sick of hearing about the shitty ass "cloud". In an age where PC components are so damn cheap, it doesn't seem to make any sense. Distributed computing, on the either hand, makes sense. Parsing out certain work to distributed computing resources on the "cloud" (ie: high CPU) could at times make sense, but building your whole architecture off it is BS.

I makes me sick that AMD is choosing to go this route. I've been a staunch AMD supporter for years, but I'm not so sure anymore....
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I really want AMD to be successful, not because I'm a brand loyalist or because I like cheering for the underdog, but because I would hate to see a non-competitive market with Intel sitting at the top of the heap.

AMD is probably trying to become more diverse to protect themselves from going belly-up in the CPU business (and maybe in the GPU business too?) by spreading themselves into other market segments that are somewhat related to what they think are their existing strengths in a place where there isn't much competition. Meh though, it seems like they're using their processor technologies as a milk segment, ignoring it in favor of spreading tendrils of the company elsewhere.
 
damicatz said:
My boss actually refuses to touch the cloud. Then again, he is convinced that Microsoft conspires with Intel to use Windows Update to install programs that make his computer slower so he will be forced to upgrade. Patch Tuesdays are always fun.
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Hehe, I've got a few of those sorts of users. It has a lot to do with past IT techs blaming everything under the sun that they can't figure out on some nefarious patch that the SyAd people must have pushed the previous night when no one was looking. It took some work to get rid of that mentality, but we're mostly over it around here. Now, I can recklessly push HORRIBLE hotfixes and EVIL security updates in the middle of the night and no one will blame me the next moring! :cool:
 
People running one, will want to make more money out of it, than if you bought one, and run it for yourself.
 
Piledriver is just a Wi-Fi chip. It sends all the stuff to be processed to AMDs servers and then sends it back.
 
Cloud = No Security

As such it will never take over completely.
Elements of CC will stick around, hell the safe components of Cloud Computing were already in palce before anyone trotted out this CC BS.

Just another space on the Bullshit Bingo Card.
 
rdqlus said:
But think about your parents, grandparents or significant other .... basically anyone for whom you're currently the "IT Guy". All of the their computer needs can be serviced by the cloud and you never get called again to fix their computer for them because of a virus or Windows Update failed or whatever. When they do need help with something you can probably log into their desktop from home and fix it.
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shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpeg
 
damicatz said:
My boss actually refuses to touch the cloud. Then again, he is convinced that Microsoft conspires with Intel to use Windows Update to install programs that make his computer slower so he will be forced to upgrade. Patch Tuesdays are always fun.
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I've had that type of boss, and it's never fun. At least he doesn't like the cloud. He could be saying, "We need to be in the cloud.... yesterday".

SkribbelKat said:
I really want AMD to be successful, not because I'm a brand loyalist or because I like cheering for the underdog, but because I would hate to see a non-competitive market with Intel sitting at the top of the heap.

AMD is probably trying to become more diverse to protect themselves from going belly-up in the CPU business (and maybe in the GPU business too?) by spreading themselves into other market segments that are somewhat related to what they think are their existing strengths in a place where there isn't much competition. Meh though, it seems like they're using their processor technologies as a milk segment, ignoring it in favor of spreading tendrils of the company elsewhere.
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I've always thought AMD was the better bang for the buck. They were always easier to manage, as Intel chipset drivers really piss me off. Diversifying is always a good business model, but they should break out their enthusiast sector into a separate line. The way this business works, one mistake can put you behind, and they need to be ready to capitalize on it.

Betaboy1983 said:
If I wanted a terminal computer.... Oh, I don't.. nvm.
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Flapjack said:
I've had that type of boss, and it's never fun. At least he doesn't like the cloud. He could be saying, "We need to be in the cloud.... yesterday".
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On the plus side, after he kept complaining about his computer being slow, I got him an SSD and now he has mandated that every computer have one. So now we get to replace all hard drives with SSDs.
 
Looks like they have gotten the memo, and realize they need to focus on per-core performance.

Lets all hope they are successful!
 
Item #1

Using the term "surround" for this type of thing seems like a misnomer. When I think surround computing I am thinking more of my visual environment and total immersion. Instead this seems to be more like a type of cloud services and tracking. I don't really think what they are doing here has too many great applications now, but perhaps it is a small stepping stone to more interesting solutions later as technologies advance. This isn't the first time they have gotten their hands into an area perhaps a little too early considering the size of their budget.

Item #2

There seem to be a lot of people denegraded cloud and giving completely false information regarding it. Cloud is a general catch all term applied to many different types of technologies. A lot of these technologies are very advanced and pushing the edge of technology. Storage is only one small part of what kinds of cloud solutions are out there. Generally a cloud solution consists of a number of systems working together often including virtualized solutions. The government is actually used cloud systems to great affect for many programs, and not so great effect in others. It is a hit or miss area, but the ultimate goal is to provide more flexibility and process ability through shared resources as opposed to the large cost and maintenance of having to provide many single computers or solutions.
 
NoOther said:
Item #2

There seem to be a lot of people denegraded cloud and giving completely false information regarding it. Cloud is a general catch all term applied to many different types of technologies. A lot of these technologies are very advanced and pushing the edge of technology. Storage is only one small part of what kinds of cloud solutions are out there. Generally a cloud solution consists of a number of systems working together often including virtualized solutions. The government is actually used cloud systems to great affect for many programs, and not so great effect in others. It is a hit or miss area, but the ultimate goal is to provide more flexibility and process ability through shared resources as opposed to the large cost and maintenance of having to provide many single computers or solutions.
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My biggest problem with the "cloud" is the concept of "when everything works together, everything fails together".

I'm reminded of the reporter who got his Apple Cloud account hacked, and they proceeded to remote wipe his iPhone, his iPad and his macbook all at once.

Then there's the issue of lost functionality when your internet connection goes down.

I'm also not entirely comfortable with my data being stored on random servers out there that I don't have control over.

I need to control all my data, not someone else.
 
NoOther said:
Item #2

There seem to be a lot of people denegraded cloud and giving completely false information regarding it. Cloud is a general catch all term applied to many different types of technologies. A lot of these technologies are very advanced and pushing the edge of technology. Storage is only one small part of what kinds of cloud solutions are out there. Generally a cloud solution consists of a number of systems working together often including virtualized solutions. The government is actually used cloud systems to great affect for many programs, and not so great effect in others. It is a hit or miss area, but the ultimate goal is to provide more flexibility and process ability through shared resources as opposed to the large cost and maintenance of having to provide many single computers or solutions.
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I don't really think there's anything truly new about this. Perhaps the implementation, but the front-end the users see and use to accomplish work is, in essence, unchanged and not new. File servers store data elsewhere at a network location, SaaS was a concept that predates the Cloud buzz, virtualization of servers also predates being called Cloud technologies, web servers have allowed file sharing through the browser long before Sharepoint existed, user terminals that are only display devices date back to terminal-mainframe networks.

I'm pretty confidant in saying that all technologies we're lumping under the ambiguity of "The Cloud" were preexisting in some similar form before. Perhaps not the specific code that makes it work, but the (sorry Apple) "look and feel" to the end users.
 
damicatz said:
I disagree. Cloud computing is terrible from an enterprise perspective because you have no control over software upgrades or any kind of policy related to data retention or security.

Basically, PHBs have bought into the marketing hype that cloud computing somehow eliminates your need for an IT department. Invariably, this plan to get rid of IT backfires and then they end up having to spend more money to bring in IT people to bail them out. No matter how much you put on the cloud, you still need someone to tend to the idiots that freely handout passwords, install random programs from the internet on their computers and who screw things up.
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Hmm, for the enterprise I'm assuming a slightly different scenario. One where the company still owns the servers and maintains the datacenter themselves. The IT group (there still is one obviously) has a single location to manage and software/OS upgrades are rolled out by IT. Full control over the data is retained so policy related issues are still under company control.

The IT group would simply manage the virtual machines that the employees use. Instead of a PC at each desk, employees would have a thin client or a zero-client. Security is simple because with a zero-client there is no data stored locally (at the employee's desk). This is what my company has implemented - it works great.
 
If I owned my own company that needed an IT department, there's no way I'd be storing any data in the cloud. I would keep my data locally. Way too many hackers to even consider the cloud as safe storage or as a safe computing environment.
 
SkribbelKat said:
I don't really think there's anything truly new about this. Perhaps the implementation, but the front-end the users see and use to accomplish work is, in essence, unchanged and not new. File servers store data elsewhere at a network location, SaaS was a concept that predates the Cloud buzz, virtualization of servers also predates being called Cloud technologies, web servers have allowed file sharing through the browser long before Sharepoint existed, user terminals that are only display devices date back to terminal-mainframe networks.

I'm pretty confidant in saying that all technologies we're lumping under the ambiguity of "The Cloud" were preexisting in some similar form before. Perhaps not the specific code that makes it work, but the (sorry Apple) "look and feel" to the end users.
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First, yes there is a lot of ambiguity over "The Cloud" which is why I think too many people give it a lot of grief and eye rolling. But many of the technologies being used now in "Cloud" initiatives are very cutting edge for their uses. There are many new SaaS and PaaS formats as well as other intiatives with fairly unique makeups.

Also, not all technologies were developed pre "The Cloud" term. Many of the backbones of the could concept certainly were, but that is true of pretty much all innovation. It is not always creating something new from nothing, often it is taking older technologies and repurposing them to new uses. Most of the cloud uses today are similar to the concepts of the mainframe. But they do not operate the same. Heck browsers have been around forever, but there are still new ways to browse being developed. Touch screen has been around forever, but newer methods are being used with it now such as multi touch and gestures.

The problem is people here are arguing too much about certain "Cloud" concepts or incarnations, but I don't think 90% of the posts here touch at all on Cloud as a whole. Most people here are referring to storage based solutions which is a very small subset of cloud initiatives albeit some of the most well known.
 
Zarathustra[H];1039088652 said:
My biggest problem with the "cloud" is the concept of "when everything works together, everything fails together".

I'm reminded of the reporter who got his Apple Cloud account hacked, and they proceeded to remote wipe his iPhone, his iPad and his macbook all at once.
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This is an utterly false insinuation as most of the cloud initiatives I work on have absolutely no way to allow people to do this. There are also far more private clouds I know of then there are public clouds. Many different things get "The Cloud" designation, so you can't pin a few incarnations as the downfall of all of them.

Also, even with some of these the cloud storage concept can be more of a life saver than a liability. Individuals being able to save data to once source that generally has far more backup, failover, and recovery methods then their personal machines and that can be accessed from just about anywhere, is a huge boon. Otherwise that individual would have to have a device to transfer that information from one machine to another (a liability), save it on multiple devices with the same version (double liability), install multiple backup and recovery programs (more liability), and actively know how to use all of it.

With all change and newer concepts there are problems, but there are also solutions. And many of the articles about using a service and then getting hacked and losing other accounts and such is based on a "Perfect Storm" concept where they seemed to use fairly poor security throughout.

Zarathustra[H];1039088652 said:
Then there's the issue of lost functionality when your internet connection goes down.

I'm also not entirely comfortable with my data being stored on random servers out there that I don't have control over.

I need to control all my data, not someone else.
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Many cloud concepts I work with don't need internet connectivity at all, in fact pretty much none of them do. They have internal redundant network connections. And which internet connection are you referring to? Your house internet? Your phone internet? You wireless on the go internet? Public WiFi spots? Private WiFi spots? There is soo much internet access these days it is crazy. So to try and put all the blame on an "internet connection goes down" and use that as a crux for your argument is fairly laughable. Is it inconvenient? Sure, it is also inconvenient to have to save that information on multiple devices, utilize fail over procedures, back it up yourself, verify file integrity continually, etc. All of which are services provided by most cloud solutions. You give up a little something to get a lot more.

If you want to control all your own data, that is fine, control it yourself. No one is holding any guns to your head to use these services. But many others do have need of these services and there are many services out there that are relatively safe and secure to use. But don't be fooled thinking that just cuz you have data on your own machine that it is safe and secure and you have complete control over it... After all if it comes into contact with the internet. it becomes vulnerable, even if that opening comes through use with a flash drive that had access to a machine with internet.
 
Hallucinator said:
Cloud is a tricky name for offsite data storage where you cannot see others taking a peek at your data. That's like putting your PC outside somewhere using it via WiFi, trusting yourself that nobody will hack or pry inside.

I find it creepy.
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THIS + 1000
 
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