Dutch Party Moves to Legalize DDoS Attacks

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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Leave it to the Dutch to come up with a plan to legalize DDoS attacks. They are well known for their liberal views and the D66 opposition party wants to make it an issue as a fundamental right of personal expression.

And while supporters characterize it as a digital version of picketing or sit-ins, opponents see it as a form of hacking and as a serious cybercrime.
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It's an interesting analogy. I mean picketing and DDoSing both disrupt the operations of a corporation. In the same way that picketers have to notify a corporation ahead of time, a DDoS group could alert a corporation ahead of time.

What do you guys think? I never thought of DDoS in this light, and I haven't made my mind up about it either way.
 
I don't know if I really like that.

I mean DDoSing is more of an attack that uses the service. While picketting doesn't, but does temporarily stops work. I believe, they are allowed to disrupt access for like 30 seconds or something?

Iunno... it's kind of a fine line, but I guess I can sort of see it that way too... I guess I'm in teh smae boat and can't really think of it completely one way or another either.
 
XacTactX said:
It's an interesting analogy. I mean picketing and DDoSing both disrupt the operations of a corporation. In the same way that picketers have to notify a corporation ahead of time, a DDoS group could alert a corporation ahead of time.

What do you guys think? I never thought of DDoS in this light, and I haven't made my mind up about it either way.
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The difference is that for majority of these attacks, you don't attack only the intended target, but usually many, many other sites at same hosting/provider. So it is like blocking all routes to a major city, because you protest against McDonals.
 
Oh, that is very true. Most sites are hosted on a networking with many other sites...
 
XacTactX said:
It's an interesting analogy. I mean picketing and DDoSing both disrupt the operations of a corporation. In the same way that picketers have to notify a corporation ahead of time, a DDoS group could alert a corporation ahead of time.

What do you guys think? I never thought of DDoS in this light, and I haven't made my mind up about it either way.
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Yeah but the difference is with picketing you are not legally allowed (at least in the US) to physically block others from accessing your place of business, you can protest all you want, you can walk in front of their driveways but when you block their path you're no longer legally protesting. DDoS typically prevent a website from doing anything... not too mention they often use zombified computers to do their bidding not ones they physically own, so congrats now we're picketing with slaves :D
 
DDoS isn't hacking, but can't DDoS be used in conjunction with hacking to wear down a system that could otherwise prevent hacking?
 
sfsuphysics said:
Yeah but the difference is with picketing you are not legally allowed (at least in the US) to physically block others from accessing your place of business...
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but DDoS is just exploiting the limitations of the servers, right? The company could reinforce against this type of problem with adequate capacity? I think this is pretty interesting.
Although, organized (criminal) entities exploit botnet type of things to muscle their demands or sum such right? Which is shady...
 
turbogeek said:
but DDoS is just exploiting the limitations of the servers, right? The company could reinforce against this type of problem with adequate capacity?
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That's like saying it's not the picketers fault nobody can get into your driveway, you just need to build a bigger driveway.
 
Equating it to picketing or protesting is a pretty weak argument. I couldn't name any country off the top of my head that allows people to legally disrupt or block activities on private property. You're even limited in the amount of disruption you can cause on public property.
 
gokuz said:
The funny part is people are actualy thinking about this :))
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Yeah, it is sort of amusing that people think they're actually going to be able to get DDoS legalized. Actually, it's sort of sad too...unless they're doing it as a joke. If that's the case, I wish them many laughs.
 
Just thinking about the political pressure the rest of the world would put on the Netherlands to not pass, or repeal this law if it passed. We could treat the Netherlands the same way many already treat Russia and China. By blocking their IP range in the router firewall. Makes doing business with the Netherlands difficult. Yes, I know IP blocking is not perfect, but it does reduce the hurt.

Hey, lets DDOS the prominent businesses websites and government websites in the Netherlands as soon as this law passes. Let us see how long it takes to repeal it.
 
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sfsuphysics said:
they often use zombified computers to do their bidding not ones they physically own, so congrats now we're picketing with slaves :D
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This is already illegal under *other* laws. You wouldn't need a law against a denial of services for this to be unlawful activity, so I don't really see how that claim holds any merit in this conversation.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Yeah but the difference is with picketing you are not legally allowed (at least in the US) to physically block others from accessing your place of business, you can protest all you want, you can walk in front of their driveways but when you block their path you're no longer legally protesting. DDoS typically prevent a website from doing anything... not too mention they often use zombified computers to do their bidding not ones they physically own, so congrats now we're picketing with slaves :D
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You make a convincing argument. DDoS totally disrupts web operations, and it doesn't require that real people try to do it. Any one person, or one corporation who has bad blood with an organization can get the equipment and start knocking websites offline. Plus, at least when workers picket you know that they have a direct stake in the strike and they have something to gain by doing it. With DDoS it's more focused on hurting the target, not getting help for the protestors.

For now I agree with you guys, making DDoS legal is a bad idea.
 
As someone who runs an online business and has been DDoSed for reasons of extortion, to competition wanting to take us down for a while, to just some random user who is mad and wants to get revenge for being banned or something... IT FUCKING SUCKS.

Watching customers/players leave, watching your daily profit drop to $0, it's absolutely soul crushing. And all you can do is spend even more money on DDoS prevention mechanisms that aren't guaranteed to work.

Fuck making them legal. Fuck this idea in it's ass.
 
GORANKAR said:
Just thinking about the political pressure the rest of the world would put on the Netherlands to not pass, or repeal this law if it passed. We could treat the Netherlands the same way many already treat Russia and China. By blocking their IP range in the router firewall. Makes doing business with the Netherlands difficult. Yes, I know IP blocking is not perfect, but it does reduce the hurt.

Hey, lets DDOS the prominent businesses websites and government websites in the Netherlands as soon as this law passes. Let us see how long it takes to repeal it.
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It is not a law :) And it is just food for thought more then anything serious. I think the political party (hold on to your steatbelts) have a total of 5 seats in the Dutch Parliament out of 150.

And good luck on killing dutch businesses :) try and lookup ASML :) .
 
So that's where the cheap dutch weed packed with glass-fiber insulation material went..
 
Pieter3dnow said:
It is not a law :) And it is just food for thought more then anything serious. I think the political party (hold on to your steatbelts) have a total of 5 seats in the Dutch Parliament out of 150.

And good luck on killing dutch businesses :) try and lookup ASML :) .
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Glad to know it is unlikely to pass.
Not trying to kill their businesses, nor did I even mention it. Though it can make internet commerce outside of a country difficult if people and other companies begin to firewall out your entire nation's IP range because you are being stupid.
 
That came out wrong Pieter3dnow. I did not mean to imply you were from the Netherlands, or stupid. Was aimed at the ones that want DOS attacks legalized.
 
I can see their point, but there is too much room for abuse and so would have to disagree with this idea.
 
If anyone legalizes DoS attacks I suggest we all move there and spend all our time DoSing their websites. Legal hacking attacks is a silly concept, that means that your business competitors could take out your computer systems LEGALLY and prevent your customers from accessing them.

They'll never get this passed because it's such a stupid idea, but the idea that anyone would even propose it shows how totally uneducated on the issue they are.
 
DDoSing is like picketing with several hundred thousand people that you kidnapped and taped signs to their hands, and forced to stand in front of whatever business. How many DDoS attacks per year do you actually think take place with legally aquired bandwidth?

A million people opening a command prompt and typing "ping -t <address>" is far different than one guy doing it on a million computers that visited the wrong website (or was served the wrong ad while visiting a legit website).
 
It's not hacking but it is and should stay illegal. When you picket, you are not allowed to prevent people from entering/exiting a business, which is essentially what DDOS does.
 
The difference is that any operations disrupted by picketing are simply incidental. The loss of revenue is a bi-product of expressing one's free speech, hence why it's protected. But DDoS serves nothing other than to disrupt business. In order for this to be on par with picketing, protesters would have to actually cut the power to the building, and blockage the entrance so that NOBODY could get in no matter what. This is more akin to sabotage than free speech, hence why DDoS should not be protected.
 
Quix said:
If anyone legalizes DoS attacks I suggest we all move there and spend all our time DoSing their websites. Legal hacking attacks is a silly concept, that means that your business competitors could take out your computer systems LEGALLY and prevent your customers from accessing them.

They'll never get this passed because it's such a stupid idea, but the idea that anyone would even propose it shows how totally uneducated on the issue they are.
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Worst and dumber things have been passed.


I have to wonder though, what if it can be something that delays a person from entering the website immediately, like a 10 second delay? Would that be more like picketting?
 
Dumbest idea ever...I mean seriously who freaking thinks of this stuff?

Just ban the IP range and top level domains from this country and be done with it, have a nice day.
 
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