'38 Studios Spouse' Speaks Out

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Hearing a first hand account of what happened at 38 Studios is heart wrenching. It just makes you want to kick Curt Schilling, Rhode Island's governor and everyone else involved right in the junk. :mad:

Me? I blame a company named 38 Studios and all of their executives for moving so many families while knowing they weren't paying bills, weren't going to hit their dates, and were running out of money. Learn this lesson from our struggles so you never have to experience it first hand. Protect yourself and family any way you can, read the small print, and realize no matter how big the company is if they run out of money there is very little you can do to get what is owed to you.
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Little confused why you're pissed at the Governor. He opposed giving the loans to 38 Studios in the first place and is hardly responsible for the company going under.
 
TechnoMage said:
Little confused why you're pissed at the Governor. He opposed giving the loans to 38 Studios in the first place and is hardly responsible for the company going under.
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Some people feel that the current governor is responsible because he didnt give 38 studios more money to stay afloat and instead decided to cut the state's losses.
 
Spire3660 said:
Some people feel that the current governor is responsible because he didnt give 38 studios more money to stay afloat and instead decided to cut the state's losses.
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That, or someone just wants to kick a bunch of people in the nuts.
 
Spire3660 said:
Some people feel that the current governor is responsible because he didnt give 38 studios more money to stay afloat and instead decided to cut the state's losses.
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That makes no sense to me. Their upset because he didn't continue to throw good money after bad? There is no way, outside of writing off the original loans, that 38 Studios was going to dig out of this hole.
 
First off I do feel bad for the writer as the employees as always end up getting the raw deal out of this. While its hard to say who is to blame for this mess and put them in this bind I can't help but also notice that the writer needs to get her own affairs in order too. I mean seriously went to pay bills but money wasn't there because there was no deposit. What are they doing living pay check to pay check? She should have enough money in that account to at least cover bills for a few months. I hope this is a lesson she takes to heart in having a reserve and not counting on next paycheck to pay bills.
 
Spire3660 said:
Some people feel that the current governor is responsible because he didnt give 38 studios more money to stay afloat and instead decided to cut the state's losses.
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Or giving them the money in the first place with no protection or insurance in them failing, making tax payers who never had a chance to block it from assume all of the losses from them going bankrupt.
 
josephunh said:
First off I do feel bad for the writer as the employees as always end up getting the raw deal out of this. While its hard to say who is to blame for this mess and put them in this bind I can't help but also notice that the writer needs to get her own affairs in order too. I mean seriously went to pay bills but money wasn't there because there was no deposit. What are they doing living pay check to pay check? She should have enough money in that account to at least cover bills for a few months. I hope this is a lesson she takes to heart in having a reserve and not counting on next paycheck to pay bills.
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Not everyone can save up like that. We don't know their overall situation, what jobs (if any) they had before etc. etc. There's an astounding number of people right now who are un- and under-employed.
 
josephunh said:
First off I do feel bad for the writer as the employees as always end up getting the raw deal out of this. While its hard to say who is to blame for this mess and put them in this bind I can't help but also notice that the writer needs to get her own affairs in order too. I mean seriously went to pay bills but money wasn't there because there was no deposit. What are they doing living pay check to pay check? She should have enough money in that account to at least cover bills for a few months. I hope this is a lesson she takes to heart in having a reserve and not counting on next paycheck to pay bills.
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Yeah people really need to stop living outside their means. A decent paying job does you no good if you're not putting any of it away. If you're trying to pinch every penny just to survive, that's one thing. Not everyone is in a position where they can build up a savings. But if you're bringing in 70-100k a year and still living paycheck to paycheck, you're being insanely wasteful somewhere.
 
josephunh said:
First off I do feel bad for the writer as the employees as always end up getting the raw deal out of this. While its hard to say who is to blame for this mess and put them in this bind I can't help but also notice that the writer needs to get her own affairs in order too. I mean seriously went to pay bills but money wasn't there because there was no deposit. What are they doing living pay check to pay check? She should have enough money in that account to at least cover bills for a few months. I hope this is a lesson she takes to heart in having a reserve and not counting on next paycheck to pay bills.
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A little self righteous aren't we?
 
josephunh said:
First off I do feel bad for the writer as the employees as always end up getting the raw deal out of this. While its hard to say who is to blame for this mess and put them in this bind I can't help but also notice that the writer needs to get her own affairs in order too. I mean seriously went to pay bills but money wasn't there because there was no deposit. What are they doing living pay check to pay check? She should have enough money in that account to at least cover bills for a few months. I hope this is a lesson she takes to heart in having a reserve and not counting on next paycheck to pay bills.
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NKDietrich said:
Yeah people really need to stop living outside their means. A decent paying job does you no good if you're not putting any of it away. If you're trying to pinch every penny just to survive, that's one thing. Not everyone is in a position where they can build up a savings. But if you're bringing in 70-100k a year and still living paycheck to paycheck, you're being insanely wasteful somewhere.
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Have either of you moved a family of five across country?
 
Magnus said:
Have either of you moved a family of five across country?
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Their actual moving expenses were covered at the time. (Though they got stuck with the bill later.) Obviously there are things you have to do to get set up in your new location, but with a good paying job there's no way you should still be living paycheck-to-paycheck 5 months after a move.

I see this kind of commentary everywhere about how these people couldn't have possibily done anything differently to protect themselves. Unless there are some very large extenuating circumstances that they don't mention in their blog, they had five months of good times in which to set aside a few bucks for a rainy day.

This is ESPECIALLY true for someone who works in the friggin' games industry, and for a company without a proven track record? There were a billion signs that this was a high-risk endeavor, and zero signs that they did anything to protect themselves. I'm not saying this situation is 100% their fault, but we can't just sit there and pretend these people aren't partially to blame for their own woes.
 
NKDietrich said:
Yeah people really need to stop living outside their means. A decent paying job does you no good if you're not putting any of it away. If you're trying to pinch every penny just to survive, that's one thing. Not everyone is in a position where they can build up a savings. But if you're bringing in 70-100k a year and still living paycheck to paycheck, you're being insanely wasteful somewhere.
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70k - 100k isn't what it used to be for a family of 5. Hell try doing that in So Cal and it would be a struggle. Plus one could argue that the 2-3 months of salary they the family may have saved in the past might have been used to cover hotel costs & deposits for utilities and house. Also cost of moving even if covered by a company many times is partially reimbursed which they obviously didn't get back either. Hell the company didn't even pay the services they were having billed to the company.

I won't even go into the fact that a high majority of American families these days aren't saving anything. Welcome to the bullshit economics of America and credit cards..
 
NKDietrich said:
Yeah people really need to stop living outside their means. A decent paying job does you no good if you're not putting any of it away. If you're trying to pinch every penny just to survive, that's one thing. Not everyone is in a position where they can build up a savings. But if you're bringing in 70-100k a year and still living paycheck to paycheck, you're being insanely wasteful somewhere.
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70-100k a year is just above poverty in NYC for a family of 3. Not hard to live paycheck to paycheck at all.
 
Magnus said:
Have either of you moved a family of five across country?
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Not only that but to reestablish a home base after the move. Renting a house, getting utilities established, trash services, TV and internet service... it all takes money.

The author of the letter says they've been paying bills on savings since 38 stopped making payroll. I imagine they paid monthly bills and put what was left in savings every month rather than leave it in checking.

Besides, who's to say what 38 was paying her husband? Startups often pay a minimal salary in exchange for some sort of profit sharing payout. Could well be why they kept everyone in the dark as to how bad things were.
 
I feel sorry for all the employees and their families. But honestly, NEVER move your family for a job. All the time, effort, expense and headaches are rarely worth it.
 
Koolthulu said:
I feel sorry for all the employees and their families. But honestly, NEVER move your family for a job. All the time, effort, expense and headaches are rarely worth it.
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Frankly almost any job in the games industry is a bad choice for anyone with a family. Too much instability. Someone with 3 kids needs steady, reliable work. Not work where a single failed project can put you in the unemployment line.
 
Man thoses two must not get out much or there just kid's have no real idea what it really cost.
And god help you if you force in hotel/motel costs.
Renting a Home, Apartment, Condos, Townhouse all have hidden cost like Rental Security Deposit, Utilities, Water/Sewer Services, Trash Services, Phone/TV and Internet service PLUS there all thoses up front deposit which eazy dbl your moving in cost's.
 
Koolthulu said:
I feel sorry for all the employees and their families. But honestly, NEVER move your family for a job. All the time, effort, expense and headaches are rarely worth it.
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I know you mean well but that is blanket statement and just not true.
 
in this thread:
lots of people that think they know how economics work showing how much they really dont know.

if you really think that there is no excuse for not having any money saved and having to live paycheck to paycheck... you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
NKDietrich said:
Frankly almost any job in the games industry is a bad choice for anyone with a family. Too much instability. Someone with 3 kids needs steady, reliable work. Not work where a single failed project can put you in the unemployment line.
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No that not the problem read my lips it all thoses other greedy people that reall run the show so welcome to the bullshit economics and loan/credit cards greedy companies.
 
Sounds like they should have done what any head of the household would normally do for a extensive, out of state move for a company that was not well established. The person with the new job moves and rents a cheap apartment for a few months while making sure everything is the way it's supposed to be, then moves the family. I have no pity for stupid people making dumb decisions.
 
NKDietrich said:
Their actual moving expenses were covered at the time. (Though they got stuck with the bill later.) Obviously there are things you have to do to get set up in your new location, but with a good paying job there's no way you should still be living paycheck-to-paycheck 5 months after a move.

I see this kind of commentary everywhere about how these people couldn't have possibily done anything differently to protect themselves. Unless there are some very large extenuating circumstances that they don't mention in their blog, they had five months of good times in which to set aside a few bucks for a rainy day.

This is ESPECIALLY true for someone who works in the friggin' games industry, and for a company without a proven track record? There were a billion signs that this was a high-risk endeavor, and zero signs that they did anything to protect themselves. I'm not saying this situation is 100% their fault, but we can't just sit there and pretend these people aren't partially to blame for their own woes.
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Hind sight is always 20/20. When people make major moves like this they are invested and committed to making it work. Over extending yourself financially is almost a given because you are betting on yourself to overcome any obstacles in the way. I regularly see the timidity and aversion to any kind of risk taking by today's 'youts' which in turn feeds into the cycle of the rich get richer and the poor poorer but, hey, I understand the desire of the 'haves' to be overly conservative and avoid putting faith in any situation they don't have control over. Because this family misjudged the character of the company they were putting all their hopes on does not make it their fault.
 
Magnus said:
Hind sight is always 20/20. When people make major moves like this they are invested and committed to making it work. Over extending yourself financially is almost a given because you are betting on yourself to overcome any obstacles in the way. I regularly see the timidity and aversion to any kind of risk taking by today's 'youts' which in turn feeds into the cycle of the rich get richer and the poor poorer but, hey, I understand the desire of the 'haves' to be overly conservative and avoid putting faith in any situation they don't have control over. Because this family misjudged the character of the company they were putting all their hopes on does not make it their fault.
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If I go into a casino with my life savings and bet it all, I'm still stupid even if it turns out the house was cheating. There are a lot of situations where we can get screwed over by someone else. Countless situations, in fact. But that doesn't give us license to be naive and expect the best out of everyone.

You talk about taking risks. It's easy to gamble when you have nothing to lose. It shouldn't be so easy when your family's livelihood is on the line. A gaming startup is no place for a family man without a really good backup plan.
 
Spire3660 said:
Some people feel that the current governor is responsible because he didnt give 38 studios more money to stay afloat and instead decided to cut the state's losses.
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Do any of you people actually READ the article? Or more importantly the one linked to in the first paragraph.

1. The loan supposedly wasn't from the state directly, merely backed by the state aka co-signed. If this is the case, then now that the company failed, the tax-payers finally get to pay for EVERYTHING. One could say the Governor actually caused the cost to tax-payers by vilifying the deal.

A 38 Studios employee corroborates, pointing out some of what he says are Chafee's most egregious acts of misinformation: Calling a private loan effectively cosigned by the state "taxpayer money" makes it appear that the state has already paid the cost, instead of being responsible for it in the event of failure.
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2. Employee's claim the new governor was publicly bashing the deal for his election to office, but misled info like the whole tax-dollars thing and other examples. Which led to investors backing out, resulting in the cash flow problems and eventual failure of the company.

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Back OT... Yeah they probably should have more in savings but in a single income home this can be difficult. I would probably say the largest issue of screw-over was the moving costs that were collected from the employee's. Guess next time you should just demand a check for costs instead???
 
NKDietrich said:
If I go into a casino with my life savings and bet it all, I'm still stupid even if it turns out the house was cheating. There are a lot of situations where we can get screwed over by someone else. Countless situations, in fact. But that doesn't give us license to be naive and expect the best out of everyone.

You talk about taking risks. It's easy to gamble when you have nothing to lose. It shouldn't be so easy when your family's livelihood is on the line. A gaming startup is no place for a family man without a really good backup plan.
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You are comparing gambling in a casino to work that the individual is experienced and good at. You and others in this thread seem to think he made a fatal error by not picking the "right" industry or, perhaps you're saying he didn't get the "right" degree from the "right" college? Life and, the choices we make, is just a tad more complicated than basing it all on financial risk. I can't imagine making life decisions based solely on money and I have a family of four.

Perhaps what we're really talking about is the 10% of Americans who ever relocate more than 150 miles from where they were born. In the old days they were called "pioneers."
 
harbingerofdoom said:
in this thread:
lots of people that think they know how economics work showing how much they really dont know.

if you really think that there is no excuse for not having any money saved and having to live paycheck to paycheck... you have no idea what you are talking about.
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While it's true that there are excuses for it, I think most of the time, people live way outside their expenses. This is what a lot of people do.... if one of them has an ipad, I'd say that's a sign right there.
 
Magnus said:
You are comparing gambling in a casino to work that the individual is experienced and good at.
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Sort of. But no matter how good he is at his job, there's nothing he could do to affect the overall stability of 38 Studios. It was a gamble because his skills could not affect the probability of success in his new role. To use the gambling analogy, your World Series of Poker credentials aren't much use when someone else is playing on your behalf.

This guy put himself and, unfortunately, his family, in a position where they were chips to be bet by Curt Schilling on a losing hand.

You and others in this thread seem to think he made a fatal error by not picking the "right" industry or, perhaps you're saying he didn't get the "right" degree from the "right" college? Life and, the choices we make, is just a tad more complicated than basing it all on financial risk. I can't imagine making life decisions based solely on money and I have a family of four.
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If you're in a position where you can afford to take risks like that, that's cool. But for other people taking risks is just plain stupid. It's the whole line between bravery and stupidity thing.

Perhaps what we're really talking about is the 10% of Americans who ever relocate more than 150 miles from where they were born. In the old days they were called "pioneers."
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Relocation isn't always a bad idea. Hell, I'm moving thousands of miles come this August. But I'm not dragging anyone with me, and I'm not going to be incurring anything more risky than a one year lease on an apartment when I get there.
 
In addition, I find it unfortunate that its this guys wife blogging about this, and not the guy himself. For all we know, he's perfectly willing to accept the consequences of the risk he took and doesn't feel like playing the victim. In which case, his wife is portraying him as some kind of whiner when he really isn't. I wish we could hear from him on the matter, and what thinking led to his decision to move his family. It would be a really good reference on what can go right and what can go wrong for people in this industry.
 
I totally blame the employees because it's clearly their fault. Besides, blaming a corporation is like cursing at grandma; companies are real people with real feelings and care for us our entire lives--until the time comes that they have to take responsibility. Then it's la cucaracha when the lights come on.
 
Cali3350 said:
70-100k a year is just above poverty in NYC for a family of 3. Not hard to live paycheck to paycheck at all.
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Don't bother explaining it.

Some folks just don't grok that there are places in the nation where pulling down $50K or even $100K gets you, if you're lucky, a decent apartment.

Stack that on top of a botched relocation where the agency failed to sell your house now you're super fuxored since most average Americans if they are lucky enough to "own" a home have all their equity there.Now you've moved your family to a new city, your house has NOT sold so you cannot buy a new one. Then your company implodes because your CEO is a fucking idiot.

Hard to plan for that.

I'm lucky. I make good money. I have a well funded 401K (that's just digging out of the econopocalypse) and enough in investments to make it quite a while should I lose my job.

But I am the exception and I know it. I refuse to blame the victims in this one. Even the state should not be on the hook for this company's failure. They made a bad investment, yes. Blame them for that. But the failure of the company cannot be laid at the feet of the government on this one.
 
Hi All
As a married man with my Wife & 3 kids living on Long Island NY, I can tell you 70-100k a year isn't going to get it done. Seems mind boggling don't it? As a Father I want to be able to send my 3 Kids to college, so they won't have to start their adult lives with a potentially crippling debt in the form of college loans.So my Wife & I started college funds for all 3. In addition, every year we take a trip to China so that we can see my Wifes Family.
My heart goes out to the Author of the article, Her family & all of 38 Studios employees who were let go with no recourse
 
Where did this all happen? I couldn't find any country with a Rhode Island place.
And I searched for every third world and developing country where the rights of the employees are not put first, and where companies are not legally forced to subscribe to an insurance fund that guarantees that all employees receive any due salary.

It also looks like firing everybody was planned a long time ago, since they fired all employees on the exact same day their medical insurance expired. That was their last possible date. Not even telling the situation to their own employees when they first defaulted payments or rather, when the business plan already showed a potential default of payment is irresponsible for a modern company and its management.

I sincerely hopes the 38 Studios employees will find a new job soon.

I really didn't like the comments that blamed the family for not having savings (where did you see that they didn't pay their bills from their own savings?), or for assuming a high salary (where did you see the exact salary of the employee), or for being responsible for their own demise somehow by accepting a company-paid move rather than getting unemployed at their previous place.

I moved across continents, and so did some of my friends with families, it is usually rather exciting and offers better job prospects for your own career.
 
TechnoMage said:
That makes no sense to me. Their upset because he didn't continue to throw good money after bad? There is no way, outside of writing off the original loans, that 38 Studios was going to dig out of this hole.
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Because there was the potential for the release of the finished product which, even if the debt wasn't fully repaid probably would have netted a smaller over all loss for the state.
 
Kor said:
Because there was the potential for the release of the finished product which, even if the debt wasn't fully repaid probably would have netted a smaller over all loss for the state.
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There was a potential for a smaller loss. The offside of that potential is a bigger loss. Blaming the governor is a little silly to me.
 
Topweasel said:
Or giving them the money in the first place with no protection or insurance in them failing, making tax payers who never had a chance to block it from assume all of the losses from them going bankrupt.
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I imagine the Rhode Island legislature standing at a craps table. "COME ON, DADDY NEEDS A NEW SUPER PAC VACATION! BIG MONEY!"
 
harbingerofdoom said:
in this thread:
lots of people that think they know how economics work showing how much they really dont know.

if you really think that there is no excuse for not having any money saved and having to live paycheck to paycheck... you have no idea what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

No, I just see too many people buying fancy new cars (or leasing them), spending big $ on travel and eating out, and then complaining how they are always broke.

Meanwhile, I'm driving a 10 year old car and using coupons, so my wife can stay home, so I can save for the kids college, save for my retirement, and so I can have at least 6 months of living expenses incase of an emergency.
 
TechnoMage said:
Little confused why you're pissed at the Governor. He opposed giving the loans to 38 Studios in the first place and is hardly responsible for the company going under.
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Yes he is, in a way.

When 38 studios started having trouble the governor went off at the mouth talking about how "38 studios failed, KoA failed, blah blah 38 studios is the suxx0rs!"

Now at this time 38 studios was trying to court investors to get money to keep making their MMO, after the governor PUBLICLY badmouths them and calls the studio a failure and says they are on the hook it scared away any and all potential investors.

Then isnead of trying to help them stay afloat he does that.

KoA sold GREAT For a new IP, it sold way more copies then almost ANY new IP that comes out. It was not a failure, the governor was just a down right PRICK who instead of looking at the "big" picture and seeing how 38 studios could turn around he just wanted to use their downfall as a political stepping stone and hoping that the RI people wouldn't grasp the concept they he was part of making sure they failed and didn't succeed.

For all we know, had 38 not been publicly humiliated by the governor they might have found investors who could have kept them on their feet.

Fault lies on 38 studios as well, it was a STUPID idea to make an mmo, then to buy up BHG and develop KoA (BHG was working on their own rpg, then 38 bought them and had them make it into KoA to tie in to their in development mmo).

They should have just made KoA first, not an mmo. Then worked from there depending on how it did. Since KoA sold well for a new ip they could have EASILY made a sequel and then an mmo off of that all while having profit in teh banks.

The loan from RI was a stupid loan, mainly because of it's huge job requirments (400+ jobs) which even many AAA developers have no where near that many people working under them.

Fault lies at both sides, not just 38.

The people most hurt by this are the people that are talked about in the article, then the RI tax payers.

The governor is a downright for anyone who understands that he just made sure 38 failed and used the press from it as a political stepping stone, all while hoping that the normal RI people wouldn't understand there were other ways out of it and that 38 could have turne dit around with more help from RI.
 
nutzo said:
No, I just see too many people buying fancy new cars (or leasing them), spending big $ on travel and eating out, and then complaining how they are always broke.

Meanwhile, I'm driving a 10 year old car and using coupons, so my wife can stay home, so I can save for the kids college, save for my retirement, and so I can have at least 6 months of living expenses incase of an emergency.
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That doesn't mean everyone is doing the same thing if they're living paycheck to paycheck.
 
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