120Hz and framerate

S

Simkin

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
144
Hi,

I have a 120Hz monitor, i think i have to clear up some things..

Everything under 120fps, feels sluggish to play with, especially under 90fps it start to get really bad. i get screentearing in Battlefield 3 and overall it just feel very sluggish to play with, when the framereate is 120. @ 120hz it feels great.

Is this just how 120Hz monitor's are? do i have to keep a constant 120fps to have it smooth?

Vysnc helps, a bit.

The monitor is an Asus VG236H
 
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Once it starts dipping you’re going to get tearing and a less smooth experience as the FPS and refresh rate doesn't match up. Basically frames are being presented at different intervals then being refreshed. Vsync will help lock it at 120 but you have to have the graphics hardware to push it. Seeing as you have dual 7970s that shouldn't be a problem, but even still they can't play every game out there maxed out at 1080p and keeping a min of 120 FPS, not average but minimum.
 
So basically, it would have been better to have a 60Hz monitor and cap/vsync my fps to 60, instead of having a 120Hz, and play with 70-100FPS? (and even lower with many players, worst case 50-60FPS)

in CS:Source its smooth as butter compared to 60hz which i had before, but with BF3, its another story..

I have two 7970, yes, but only one 1080p monitor, so the CPU is probably a big bottleneck here..
 
I though that the problem with tearing was when you got framerates over the screen refresh speed, by not giving the display enough time to show full frames.
 
you would have to turn your settings down considerable to get a minimum of 120fps at 1080 on bf3 with your setup. It's almost impossible to get a next gen game maxed out with a minimum over 100fps.

Try downloading afterburner, and use the 2nd utility it comes with to lock your frame rate at 60fps. This is different than vsync, because vsync adds mouse lag to games when enabled through crossfire. Some people don't notice it, but i don't know how they can't notice how bad it is. I won't play with vsync on, EVER. so i use the 60fps cap from afterburner's utility app and it gives the best game play experience. Let me know what you think. you can also lock it at 85fps if you want. That might be a better number if you have 7970cf. Also, don't use MSAA in BF3, AMD has admitted it is inherently broken and gives choppy laggy shit spewing performance.
 
Locking my framerate to 60fps is not working, 60fps in unplayable on 120hz, atleast thats my experience in BF3. i'm using afterburner, and i have been locking it @ 90fps, right now i have it locked @ 100fps. 90-100fps is OK, but everything below this, its starting to get painful.

well, maybe not exactly screentearing, i dont know how to explain it, but its just not smooth, its not lag or stuttering, it doesnt feel any good.

disable MSAA does not seem to do anything, other than a loosing only a few framerates..
 
Weren't you having trouble getting get rid of Screen tearing with any AMD Driver pre 120hz?

I'm debating 120hz myself, can't make up my mind. I think I'm going to do it since I'll probably never touch BF3 after CS:GO comes out anyway.
 
well maybe not exactly screentearing, but it feels like im playing with very low framerate, its a very unsmooth experience when it dips below 90fps, feels like im playing with 20-30fps, when im actually having 70+.

One card - Two cards is no difference.
 
Ok, i think something is very wrong here..

I just turn on a Movie, and the movie is behaving just like BF3, VERY unsmooth and laggy..
 
Windows refreshrate is set to 120Hz
Dual Link DVI = Yes

Second monitor (my TV) is disconnected atm.
 
Oh nvm, i need to learn to read.

That doesn't sound normal at all.
 
I think i'm gonna reinstall Windows, i dont see any other option.

It just like 120Hz is "broken", its the only way i can describe it..
 
Simkin said:
I think i'm gonna reinstall Windows, i dont see any other option.

It just like 120Hz is "broken", its the only way i can describe it..
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That sucks, definitely post back after you do. Curious to see what this ends up being.
 
Something's definitely not right there. My 120hz feels just fine at 60 fps. There's no tearing or anything.
 
Isn't the Samsung S27A950D model the TV version with all sorts of processing and lag? I have only 1 7970 and everything is super smooth. Maybe try Crossfire off for a quick test?

Oh also I read that there are issues with dual link-DVI with these samsung monitors, so I am using displayport.
 
He's using an Asus VG236H.

I've heard of only one occasion of this model failing to work flat-out, i'd explore your options before considering it dead.
 
After a reinstall of Windows, everything seems much smoother. Video playback and BF3...

Hope this only was some bad video driver issue, as i have tried many drivers lately..

ve heard of only one occasion of this model failing to work flat-out, i'd explore your options before considering it dead.
Click to expand...

What happend?
 
Raxxath said:
Something's definitely not right there. My 120hz feels just fine at 60 fps. There's no tearing or anything.
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+1 to this. I haven't experienced screen tearing whenever the fps drops below 120hz.

Glad to hear the windows install helped! Did you install the latest CAP also?
 
No cap installed, BF3 runs great now, so i dont se any reason to install the CAP.. =)

No BF3 improvement in the latest cap, and i am running the lates 12.4
 
cageymaru said:
+1 to this. I haven't experienced screen tearing whenever the fps drops below 120hz.

Glad to hear the windows install helped! Did you install the latest CAP also?
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I think i was i little to quick yesterday, it seems like the stuttering/unsmooth gameplay is still present..

And when you guys say that 60fps on your 120Hz feels great, then something must be wrong with my setup.. i tried to cap my fps to 60 in BF3 using afterburner and i get a very unsmooth gameplay.. vsync off makes it even worse.. CS:Source @ 60fps is also horrible.

Can it be something wrong with my monitor?

i'll try to make a little video later..
 
Normally when gaming as soon as you go under the Refresh rate of the monitor a game feel sluggish, You start to get mouse lag. Because your running at 120hz, when your games drop below it, it's going to feel slow. In BF3 in the graphics options you can change the refresh rate. So you could just Run BF3 at 72hz/75hz. Or what other refresh rates your monitor allows at it's native res.

Even with two 7970's your going to have a hard time keep BF3 over 120fps.

When you run your FPS at double the refresh rate, EG in CoD game, running the game at over 120fps, on a 60hz screen, Half the games movement processing lag. Your mouse would become even shaper.

I'm looking to upgrade my monitor, but i'm still going to run at 60hz, but with 120+fps.
 
granite said:
Normally when gaming as soon as you go under the Refresh rate of the monitor a game feel sluggish, You start to get mouse lag. Because your running at 120hz, when your games drop below it, it's going to feel slow. In BF3 in the graphics options you can change the refresh rate. So you could just Run BF3 at 72hz/75hz. Or what other refresh rates your monitor allows at it's native res.

Even with two 7970's your going to have a hard time keep BF3 over 120fps.

When you run your FPS at double the refresh rate, EG in CoD game, running the game at over 120fps, on a 60hz screen, Half the games movement processing lag. Your mouse would become even shaper.

I'm looking to upgrade my monitor, but i'm still going to run at 60hz, but with 120+fps.
Click to expand...

No offense but im not sure what to even make of this post.
 
granite said:
Normally when gaming as soon as you go under the Refresh rate of the monitor a game feel sluggish, You start to get mouse lag. Because your running at 120hz, when your games drop below it, it's going to feel slow. In BF3 in the graphics options you can change the refresh rate. So you could just Run BF3 at 72hz/75hz. Or what other refresh rates your monitor allows at it's native res.

Even with two 7970's your going to have a hard time keep BF3 over 120fps.

When you run your FPS at double the refresh rate, EG in CoD game, running the game at over 120fps, on a 60hz screen, Half the games movement processing lag. Your mouse would become even shaper.

I'm looking to upgrade my monitor, but i'm still going to run at 60hz, but with 120+fps.
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I'm confused :p.. in one place i read that 60fps on a 120hz monitor will be better/faster than a 60hz monitor running 60fps.. and then i read that as soon as you dip under 120fps on a 120hz, its start to feel sluggish? i hade a 60Hz before i bought my 120hz, and 60fps on that was FAR better than 60fps on my 120Hz.

2 guys in this thread saying 60fps i smooth on their 120hz, while 60fps on my 120hz feels like crap..

I'm uploading a video on YouTube right now, where i have capped the fps to 60 in BF3 without VSync, so then people can see how it looks..
 
Mouse lag when fps is under your refresh rate? No. If your FPS gets low enough, will it look choppy? Yes, but it won't effect your mouse.

60fps is very "acceptable", there is really no reason it should look choppy or laggy to him at that fps on a 120hz monitor. 60fps will look the same on a 60hz and a 120hz, although it could look a bit more "responsive" on the 120hz ie. faster.

When you run your FPS at double the refresh rate, EG in CoD game, running the game at over 120fps, on a 60hz screen, Half the games movement processing lag. Your mouse would become even shaper.

Processing lag? 120fps on a 60hz screen? Mouse becoming shaper? No idea what-so-ever what you're even trying to say.

120fps at 60hz makes no sense as a target point, any fps numbers above 60, on a 60hz monitor nets you ZERO benefits.
 
Here is the video

60FPS, 120Hz set in Catalyst, no VSync.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO59u-IitL0

It may not be a good video, but notice how unsmooth the movements are. its the same in CS Source, really unplayable.. @ 90FPS its better, but still unsmooth.. the worst is that even over 100FPS, i still feels unsmooth..

I noticed one more thing; if i play CS Source, quit, go into catalyst control panel, the whole catalyst is laggy as hell. it take 1-2 min to get back to normal..
 
Somethings wrong with your hardware combination, drivers or settings. I can let my FPS dip as low as I want, everythings still "smooth". 100fps is 100fps, 50 feels like 50, 30 feels like 30, even 25 is still playable but obviously not ideal.

No input lag, no problems here (Samsung S27A950D + GTX 680). I never turn on vsync and do not experience tearing on a regular basis, certainly not enough to make me want to enable vsync.
 
afaik youtube encodes your video when you upload and they don't do more than 30fps.
 
granite said:
Normally when gaming as soon as you go under the Refresh rate of the monitor a game feel sluggish, You start to get mouse lag. Because your running at 120hz, when your games drop below it, it's going to feel slow. In BF3 in the graphics options you can change the refresh rate. So you could just Run BF3 at 72hz/75hz. Or what other refresh rates your monitor allows at it's native res.

Even with two 7970's your going to have a hard time keep BF3 over 120fps.

When you run your FPS at double the refresh rate, EG in CoD game, running the game at over 120fps, on a 60hz screen, Half the games movement processing lag. Your mouse would become even shaper.

I'm looking to upgrade my monitor, but i'm still going to run at 60hz, but with 120+fps.
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Uhhhh...what?!
 
Right ok, I'm going to try and explain this as simple as I can.

lets say my screen refreshes at 60hz. And I'm playing a game, Lets say Call of Duty. (cos most people can run it). Now any fps over 60hz will run fine, because it is higher than the refresh rate. However when your fps dips below your refresh rate, you will experience some type of motion lag. You may not notice it at 59fps, but the further you go down the scale the worse it will get. Why? Because the game is producing frames that are slower than the screen. You will eventually get to the point where you can 'see' this happening. So you move your mouse and then the game moves half a second later.

At 60hz, there is a difference of 16ms between each frame. Between each frame the game has to 'read' what inputs the user is creating. (eg mouse and keyboard). Now the lower the fps we go the longer between these frames. This means that the game is reading the changes of your 'mouse' at a 16ms rate. When your fps drops, the frame width gets larger. this means that per second your mouse is going to be read less times. This will mean the mouse will feel less accurate, because the intervals in which it's being read further apart.

Now lets take the issue at hand. Your running a 120hz screen. So in order for the game to keep up with the screen, you need to run the game at 120fps or more. This is easy to do in game like cod.

set your fps to 125fps. Why 125, because it creates a 'whole number' of ms between each frame.

60fps 16ms/frame
91fps 11ms/frame
125fps 8ms/frame
etc...

See my Cod Image
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/Shadowme/fps.jpg

So /com_maxfps 125 [to set the fps cap at 125]. and /cg_drawfps 1 [to see the fps counter]

You will find that game play should feel fine at 125fps, but as soon as it dips under 120fps, because you screen is 120hz, you will start to feel the lag.

So, i know you have this fancy 120hz screen, but you maybe better off playing with a lower refresh rate while playing BF3. So that your fps, doesn't dip below your refresh rate.

http://www./Active/en_US/shared/images/guides/battlefield-3-beta/graphics-quality-options.png

If you open up the resolution list, you will find that there is a huge list of different frame rates too. Try setting it to the same resolution but a lower hz refresh rate, and see if you still get the 'LAG'.

You could set it to 60hz, and just let the screen post each frame twice. but you will find it feels more responsive.

I understand that I am a 'noobie' on the forums, but I have spent may years of online gaming understand these effects and getting the best performance out my games.
 
Now i get two different storyes again, one saying everything is smooth, even at 60fps, and one saying its not..

granite: do you actually have a 120hz yourself?

settings my Monitor to 60Hz is unplayable..
 
Granite, I don't know what you are referring to, but simply put you are inventing unexistant problems.

And, 60 Hz don't create a whole number:
1/60 = 16.6666... ms.
1/90 = 11.1111... ms.
1/91 = 10.989... ms.
1/120 = 8.3333... ms.
1/125 = 8 ms.

125 FPS is the only frame rate that has a rounded time number between new frame "arrivals", without decimal part.

The rendering thread is independent from the input reading thread, the same for the IA and all the rest. Those processes just put their results in buffers or queues to be rendered by the rendering thread. If the graphics card can't keep up then they're just discarded from showing up in the screen, but they're undoubtedly collected by the game engine and transferred to the corresponding entities, including remote servers and players that will process that data in their rendering time frame.
 
I have now tried each card separate, still the same.

60FPS still feels absolutely rubbish..

:mad:
 
Filiprino said:
Granite, I don't know what you are referring to, but simply put you are inventing unexistant problems.

And, 60 Hz don't create a whole number:
1/60 = 16.6666... ms.
1/90 = 11.1111... ms.
1/91 = 10.989... ms.
1/120 = 8.3333... ms.
1/125 = 8 ms.

125 FPS is the only frame rate that has a rounded time number between new frame "arrivals", without decimal part.

The rendering thread is independent from the input reading thread, the same for the IA and all the rest. Those processes just put their results in buffers or queues to be rendered by the rendering thread. If the graphics card can't keep up then they're just discarded from showing up in the screen, but they're undoubtedly collected by the game engine and transferred to the corresponding entities, including remote servers and players that will process that data in their rendering time frame.
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I was using the values from what the CoD engine rounds them to. The list I Gave is the values of the ms/frame that is presented in the game engine, Not the actual math.

Basically once again, no one is going to pay a blind bit attention what I'm going on about, I'm just gonna get the same story from everyone shouting, 'you cant tell the difference over 60hz..blah blah'.

I've played CoD games since CoD1, and from the original engine Quake 3 Arena (Now Quake live). The game feels compleatly more fluid at double the hz of the screen.

I'm just stating what I've researched and experienced over the years, not that anyone will pay any attention.

SO I'm going put this is basic terms. If your fps goes lower than your refresh rate, the game will feel sluggish.

Now i get two different storyes again, one saying everything is smooth, even at 60fps, and one saying its not..

granite: do you actually have a 120hz yourself?

settings my Monitor to 60Hz is unplayable..
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No unfortunately I don't, I'm looking at buying a new monitor, but I'm staying on the 60hz wagon. I'm trying to find a screen that will do 72hz. (SO it will sync with 24p blu-rays properly), I wont get a 120fps screen because I know my hardware wouldn't be able to keep it at 120fps. It would drive me nuts with input lag. I don't have the money to spend on mega hardware.

I can set my current monitor to a lower resolution and set it to 75, or 80hz. Even when I play a game at those refresh rates, as soon as my fps drops below the refresh-rate, I 'feel' input lag.
 
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OK dude, look, you DO NOT need to maintain 120FPS with a 120hz monitor to have a silky smooth experience. I have never maintained 120fps in current gen games and have never not had a silky smooth experience in every title I have played (barring any documented bugs).

Your monitor has decent reviews, so its probably something else wonky with your configuration that is causing you this trouble.
 
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