Human Bird Wings: Real or Fake?

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This video has been sent to me at least a hundred times and everyone wants to know if it's real or fake. I don't know but Wired is taking a stab at the "science" behind it. What do you think?
 
I say fake. The wing motions is not the same for birds. And I belive it has been shown that just up and down movements don't move the air over the wings but just fans the air.
 
notice how the helmet cam does not look around at ALL during flight. If you were the first ever "real" birdman, you figure you'd turn your head at least a degree or two to make sure your wings were working properly.
 
I think it looks real. The wing span is quite huge enough to manipulate the air around him, as in hang gliding and para sailing.


Poor guy was exhausted after he landed. I bet it took a ton of effort to flap the wings against the winds. Some kind of exoskeleton or block and tackle might be necessary to make it easier to flap the wings.
 
Tigerskunk said:
I say fake. The wing motions is not the same for birds. And I belive it has been shown that just up and down movements don't move the air over the wings but just fans the air.
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Not to mention the helmet cam and the video of the event don't match height from the ground or where he landed.
 
Tigerskunk said:
I say fake. The wing motions is not the same for birds. And I belive it has been shown that just up and down movements don't move the air over the wings but just fans the air.
Click to expand...

In one of their earlier videos you can see it also has pitch variation. The pitch variation doesn't need to be huge and might be hard to see.

The main reason I'd question if its realy is that I'd be impressed those little motors could generate enough power to keep him flying.
 
Azhar said:
I think it looks real. The wing span is quite huge enough to manipulate the air around him, as in hang gliding and para sailing.


Poor guy was exhausted after he landed. I bet it took a ton of effort to flap the wings against the winds. Some kind of exoskeleton or block and tackle might be necessary to make it easier to flap the wings.
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Hang-gliding and para-sailing both require air movement over the lift surfaces.

These stupid flapping inventions didn't work before the Wright brothers, why would they all the sudden start working now?
 
Also to add, how are those wings supported? not by his arms, there's no way, One decent thermal hitting a wing and he would be upside down with a broken arm. Also, taking off flat? not happening for non-powered flight. Other forms of non-powered flight involve cliffs and steep drops, or tow planes, there is no way this thing got in the air and stayed there.
 
Azhar said:
I think it looks real. The wing span is quite huge enough to manipulate the air around him, as in hang gliding and para sailing.


Poor guy was exhausted after he landed. I bet it took a ton of effort to flap the wings against the winds. Some kind of exoskeleton or block and tackle might be necessary to make it easier to flap the wings.
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He wasn't flapping the wings under his own strength, there's motors on his back driving the wings, he controls the motors by flapping his arms. The power required to lift a person off the ground is pretty massive and more than you could produce just by flapping your arms. Man powered aircraft require athletes cycling as hard as they can to produce enough power to get off the ground. Humans just don't have the strength in their arms to do it. Have you ever picked up a bird? They're incredibly strong for their size and weight. There was a distressed cockatoo out the front of our house which we suspected was injured, I went to pick it up to move it and damned the little thing was strong.
 
AdamNesvick said:
Hang-gliding and para-sailing both require air movement over the lift surfaces.

These stupid flapping inventions didn't work before the Wright brothers, why would they all the sudden start working now?
Click to expand...

AdamNesvick said:
Also to add, how are those wings supported? not by his arms, there's no way, One decent thermal hitting a wing and he would be upside down with a broken arm. Also, taking off flat? not happening for non-powered flight. Other forms of non-powered flight involve cliffs and steep drops, or tow planes, there is no way this thing got in the air and stayed there.
Click to expand...

Its not man powered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH3fQbGlQlM&list=UU7W2f5n5vYfM7TYVir3iPGw&index=6&feature=plcp

There is a man powered ornithopter project, and its not nearly as impressive since humans don't have the power to pull it off ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK8x9-78tcM&feature=relmfu
 
It looks fake the moment they switch to the rear camera and the other guys are walking away from bird man.
 
hrm... basic aerodymanics say that there is no where near enough speed and lift to get him airborn and forward flight.

Props for the CGI and going viral.
 
Sure a lot of effort went into it if the video is fake. Notice it is a series of 14 videos. :eek: Should be pretty easy to figure out if it is fake. If there isn't any more about this project besides the youtube videos that shows up in the next month, then it is fake. If it is real, there should be plenty more press coverage/interviews/details released.
 
Tigerskunk said:
I say fake. The wing motions is not the same for birds. And I belive it has been shown that just up and down movements don't move the air over the wings but just fans the air.
Click to expand...

Wing motions not like birds? Ain't that like saying 'airplanes have no feathers, they can't work'

It kinda sounds and looks like they start a motor on the guys back and most of the motion is on the outer 1/2 of the wings. He has a fair forward motion and a large surface area. I have not idea how they could control direction, that would scare the hell outta me.

I say needs technical details and 3rd party viewers.
 
weebling1 said:
Wing motions not like birds? Ain't that like saying 'airplanes have no feathers, they can't work'

It kinda sounds and looks like they start a motor on the guys back and most of the motion is on the outer 1/2 of the wings. He has a fair forward motion and a large surface area. I have not idea how they could control direction, that would scare the hell outta me.

I say needs technical details and 3rd party viewers.
Click to expand...

Bird wings don't simply flap up and down. They actually rotate to move the air behind them while going up and down.

Lift on a fixed winged aircraft is when air above the wings moves faster than the air below it. This generates lift, and it needs a great amount of speed to get airborn.

This is also why you don't see a jet "flap its wings". It doesn't work because it disrupts the lift.
 
The Geek in me would love to see this be the real deal.

The Engineer in me is just not seeing things add up correctly.

The wings appear to be of sufficient size and design to keep a human aloft - my bosses used to be hang-gliders and they say the size and design is good. But generating the lift necessary to get airborne - not enough speed and the "flapping" is ... silly looking... doesn't look like it's doing much of anything.

A part of me wants to believe tho...
 
I'd this is fake it's been planned since last summer and then some. There's engineering drawings detailed videos throughout the building and planning process, failed
Flight tests, and then this successful one.

15 videos in total, tons of write up and blog work, newspaper and magazine editorials about his project.

It seems like its one he'll of a joke with all the above..

I am thinking real.. Just to much is involved on this project including his grandfathers work on the past to do this, ( with pics ) to of faked this all.
 
C'mon people! He would need pecs 18" thick to generate enough force to flap bird wings. And bird wings would generate much more lift and motive force than those contraptions, all for less weight. Plus, that guy weighs about 170#? There's a reason there are few birds that big.

It's so impossible that it doesn't even bear any scrutiny. There is no "if" where this scenario works. Not enough power. Too much weight.
 
That is fake as shit. Anyone who's watched any CGI would be able to tell it's fake.
 
vleigh said:
C'mon people! He would need pecs 18" thick to generate enough force to flap bird wings. And bird wings would generate much more lift and motive force than those contraptions, all for less weight. Plus, that guy weighs about 170#? There's a reason there are few birds that big.

It's so impossible that it doesn't even bear any scrutiny. There is no "if" where this scenario works. Not enough power. Too much weight.
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He's not flapping them himself. There's a machine on his back doing it. Still I don't think it's possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH3fQbGlQlM
 
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Shitty youtube videos do not constitute extraordinary evidence.
 
I'm hearing a lot of "this is fake" but not a lot of "this is fake because <insert properly explained and legitimate reason>".

Personally I want to believe it ;) The wings don't "look" like they're generating enough lift to pull it off, but you really can't say from that video.
 
Tudz said:
I'm hearing a lot of "this is fake" but not a lot of "this is fake because <insert properly explained and legitimate reason>".

Personally I want to believe it ;) The wings don't "look" like they're generating enough lift to pull it off, but you really can't say from that video.
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There were several reasons posted as to why it's fake:

1) Not enough speed/flapping to be physically possible
2) Camera height doesn't match on the split screen parts
3) Camera never moves to either side verifying that it is real
4) Clearly is CGI (to me, anyway)
 
Tudz said:
I'm hearing a lot of "this is fake" but not a lot of "this is fake because <insert properly explained and legitimate reason>".

Personally I want to believe it ;) The wings don't "look" like they're generating enough lift to pull it off, but you really can't say from that video.
Click to expand...

Because simply flapping wings doesn't generate lift. the wings have to tilt and fold out of the way to present less surface area and then unfold to present more area. Then the downward push of a flap creates more force pushing you up than the upward force of the flap pushing you down + gravity.

There's not enough of this really. The wings would have to flap as fast as an insect's rigid wings do to work like it does in this video.

Birds wings are are like hands, the cup and fold the wings when lifting and spread them out when pushing down. Same idea you do with your hand when you are swimming. This video doesn't show more than a simple tilt of the wings.
 
Aseras said:
Because simply flapping wings doesn't generate lift. the wings have to tilt and fold out of the way to present less surface area and then unfold to present more area. Then the downward push of a flap creates more force pushing you up than the upward force of the flap pushing you down + gravity.

There's not enough of this really. The wings would have to flap as fast as an insect's rigid wings do to work like it does in this video.

Birds wings are are like hands, the cup and fold the wings when lifting and spread them out when pushing down. Same idea you do with your hand when you are swimming. This video doesn't show more than a simple tilt of the wings.
Click to expand...

All it needs is pitch control in the flapping, you really can't see from the video how much the wings are pitching, in earlier videos it shows there definitely is pitch control in the motor, so the wings AREN'T just flapping up and down.

This video here looks like its just flapping up and down, yet it has enough pitch variation to take off (and then crash :p)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-qS7oN-3tA

So you CAN fly with the motion they've shown. As I said in my post, the flapping doesn't "look" like its sufficient due to the speed, I agree, but the actual equations and numbers to say that elude me.
 
Here's their website: http://www.humanbirdwings.net/

To the naysayers who say the Wright brothers tried it: the Wright brothers didn't have the technology and right materials to make it happen. I suppose you're going to say space travel isn't possible either.
 
I'd say possible with the correct camming mechanism to flap the wings in the proper geometry, small powerful servo motor, powerful batteries, and everything made of carbon fiber. He's not flapping it himself he's just using his arms to control the mechanisms that flap the wings. That said. It looks incredibly fake and if someone did manage to make it work it'd be incredibly dangerous. One gust of wind at the wrong time and you do a face plant at 30 mph.
 
From the audio it sounds like there's a fair amount of headwind, so in the video the contraption might be acting as a glider more than anything.
 
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