Water Cooling Capacity Questions

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roadczar

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
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http://th10.roadczar.com/

I’m planning to upgrade my current WC rig to include to water cool my dual HD6990s and a i7 3930.

Parts:
CaseLabs TH10 case
2 x XSPC RX 480s Radiators
2 x XSPC Razor 6990 GPU blocks
1 x Apogee XT (Rev 2) CPU block using this block today with 920, but plan on transferring this over and using the Swiftech adapter for LGA 2011

Currently using Danger Den’s Monsoon D5 with Swiftech MCP655 installed. Everything is powered using SILVERSTONE ST1500 1500W PSU. My GPUs are presently running on air.

Couple of question on my new build -

Do I need to split 6990 into a separate loop? Or can dual 480s handle both GPU and CPU on a single loop?

If I decide on a single loop can one MCP655 handle the flow?

If splitting the loop and adding a separate pump do you think my 1500 watt PSU can run the whole thing?

Last one! :) I’m thinking on mounting both rads on the bottom of my case. Is there an easy way of flushing the loops with both rads mounted on the bottom? Seems like it will be much easier to bleed, but big pain to maintain?

This is my current rig:

PC%20II%203.jpg

PC%20II%201.jpg

SAM_0284.JPG
 
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Fwiw, a single 480 rad will handle that setup very well.

Single-loop will be good, and a D5 will be capable of dealing with pumping duties.

Enjoy.
 
Pumps do not add that much power consumption. It's like adding two or three hard drives or fans.

One RX480 will definitely not cut it with overclocked 6990s. Unless you want ultra-loud Deltas on the radiator. And even then, since the RX series are low-airflow optimized, they might not cut it.

As long as you maintain a high enough flow rate, there is no need for separate loops. I think a single D5 should keep the flow rates high enough, especially if you have the 6990s and radiators in parallel.
 
One RX480 will definitely not cut it with overclocked 6990s. Unless you want ultra-loud Deltas on the radiator. And even then, since the RX series are low-airflow optimized, they might not cut it.
Click to expand...

Guys guys guys, please.

To the OP - please go and try my suggestion, start from there, and build on that experience. No need to waste money on hw that will give you at best 1-2% additional headroom.

Have fun.
 
omegatotal said:
800watts at the wall, or 800watts at the pci-e power connector?
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I did not measure it myself. It is well documented that a single overclocked 6990 can draw 75w from the board and over 350w from PCI connectors.
 
MrBean_Oz said:
Guys guys guys, please.

To the OP - please go and try my suggestion, start from there, and build on that experience. No need to waste money on hw that will give you at best 1-2% additional headroom.

Have fun.
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He has the equivalent of 4 6970 cards. If he wasn't overclocking the 6990s, then a single 480 would probably be fine. But he is, so a single 480 won't cut it as far as better temps and lower noise is concerned.

And OP didn't state what his main goal is. If it is lower noise, then having more radiators is perfectly reasonable.
 
Tsumi said:
And OP didn't state what his main goal is. If it is lower noise, then having more radiators is perfectly reasonable.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that. Yes, the main goal is the highest stable overclock (CPU and GPU) with low noise levels.

Anyways, I already have both 480s in hand... ;)
 
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And I am willing to bet you that a single quad will cool that system down, to much lower temps, and noise levels, than what the default air-cooling will.

Plus, allow for substantial overclocks.

It's a pity everyone is falling into the trap of 'you must have 10 rads to cool xxx"

It simply isn't true. But, if you have the rads, and the space, the time, the money, then do it. Have fun, that's what it's ultimately about.\

If splitting the loop and adding a separate pump do you think my 1500 watt PSU can run the whole thing?
Click to expand...

You will have lots of extra capacity, the PSU won't be a limitation with this setup.
 
Hi,

I think you should go with two 480's. Here is why.

I have only two 6970 and I7 2600 @ 5 GHz. Hence almost twice less heat introduced into my system. I have tried few setups and ended up with two 240 rads and one 120 rad cooling my PC. 240's are TFC Xchanger rads and 120 is Phobia G-charger 120. All radiators are pretty good (tripple thickness). 240's are even better than some 360's modes. Due a single loop configuration (my GPU blocks are parallel though) I do use two pumps as it was baddly needed.

I wanted all WC parts to be contained in case. So my first setup was single loop with Apogee XT, TFC Xchanger 240, Phobia G-charger 120 and XPC dualbay res with Laing MCP355 pump. system would not cope with heat that was made by GPU's. Temp's would climbe up constantly. One 240 and one 120 were not enough.

To be honest Cooling of CPU is peanuts. Although 2011 will make few more watt's cooling CPU can be done with any setup. Even with self contained system as Corsair H100 you can have good results. To cool 4 GPU's that is a challenge.

If you are making twice amount of heat you will need twice amount of raidiator's as well. So cooling with two 480 rad's makes sense. In 6970 mode your GPU's can make up to 1KW heat. Your CPU will make anywere from 125 watt to 250 watt (OC-ed). So You will need to cool up to 1200 watt heat. I do not see low fin density 480 cooling all of that heat. Two should be able to do it.


Pumps for PC watercooling pull from 15 to 35 watt's. Hence one more pump should not make that much of a difference.



My 2 cents.


MD
 
Hi,
Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I was worried that combining 2 6990s on the same loop would actually heat up my CPU instead of cooling it.

I already have two RX 480s and two MCP655s so adding an extra reservoir is not a big deal. Also, decided on the top placement of RX 480s.

I am leaning to 2 separate lops – but now you have me wondering. Do I need to reserve both 480’s for the GPU duty and get an additional 360 for the CPU?

PSU wise- I will try it with one ST1500 and see what happens. I hope that fans will not push it over the edge. I will need 16 fans for the push/pull configuration and 4 more intakes – 20 fans total!

Currently using Google’s Sketchup to model everything. Not a bad tool especially considering the price. :) (wish I could find a model for Asus Rampage IV).

Thanks again for all the responses!



MD said:
Hi,

I think you should go with two 480's. Here is why.

I have only two 6970 and I7 2600 @ 5 GHz. Hence almost twice less heat introduced into my system. I have tried few setups and ended up with two 240 rads and one 120 rad cooling my PC. 240's are TFC Xchanger rads and 120 is Phobia G-charger 120. All radiators are pretty good (tripple thickness). 240's are even better than some 360's modes. Due a single loop configuration (my GPU blocks are parallel though) I do use two pumps as it was baddly needed.

I wanted all WC parts to be contained in case. So my first setup was single loop with Apogee XT, TFC Xchanger 240, Phobia G-charger 120 and XPC dualbay res with Laing MCP355 pump. system would not cope with heat that was made by GPU's. Temp's would climbe up constantly. One 240 and one 120 were not enough.

To be honest Cooling of CPU is peanuts. Although 2011 will make few more watt's cooling CPU can be done with any setup. Even with self contained system as Corsair H100 you can have good results. To cool 4 GPU's that is a challenge.

If you are making twice amount of heat you will need twice amount of raidiator's as well. So cooling with two 480 rad's makes sense. In 6970 mode your GPU's can make up to 1KW heat. Your CPU will make anywere from 125 watt to 250 watt (OC-ed). So You will need to cool up to 1200 watt heat. I do not see low fin density 480 cooling all of that heat. Two should be able to do it.


Pumps for PC watercooling pull from 15 to 35 watt's. Hence one more pump should not make that much of a difference.



My 2 cents.


MD
Click to expand...
 
First off, there's no need for dual loops. Water temperature within a loop remains at a constant temperature the entire way, varying probably at most 2 C or so, which isn't significant at all. What's most important is your cooling capacity (how many radiators you have, and the speed of the fans on them) vs how much heat you're putting out.

I would just keep everything in one loop. Two 480s is more than sufficient to cool everything. A 480 and a 240 would probably do as well.
 
How would isolating a 1000w GPUs from a 300w CPU not be beneficial to the CPU? I know that I will be losing cooling capacity on the GPU side.


Tsumi said:
First off, there's no need for dual loops. Water temperature within a loop remains at a constant temperature the entire way, varying probably at most 2 C or so, which isn't significant at.
Click to expand...
 
roadczar said:
How would isolating a 1000w GPUs from a 300w CPU not be beneficial to the CPU? I know that I will be losing cooling capacity on the GPU side.
Click to expand...

It will be beneficial to the CPU, yes. But is it necessary? You're talking about your processor running maybe 5 C hotter with everything under full complete load, but your GPUs will probably run up to 10 C cooler. And when your CPU is idling and you GPUs are under load, the GPUs can use the cooling capacity allotted to the CPU, and vice versa.
 
Here is the thing, as Tsumi says it is the cooling capacity that you are worried about here. There are several ways you can affect this. Typically in dual GPU setups, I like to use separate loops, but you can do them in a single loop as well. I also would suggest 2 rads with that setup if you are going to be going for high overclocks. I might also suggest a second pump which migh improve flowrate and headroom, but probably will run fine without the second.

The problem with the single rad is that you are dropping a lot more heat into the loop now and not increasing the surface area to dissipate that heat is going to cause your current temps to go up a bit, and with overclocking those cards I am willing to bet they will go up quite a bit. The second rad will give you more surface area to dissipate that heat, but it will also add a bit more restriction on your loop. You can help that with a second pump or by splitting into 2 separate loops. By my bet is that just adding the second rad will help dissipate more heat than it will add restriction. You don't even necessarily need another 480, you could probably just do a 360 or even a 240.
 
So single loop it is.
Two pumps.
Two 480s on top in a push pull configuration

Here are a couple of rough Google Sketchup pictures of what it may look like.

th10_frontleft-1024x448.jpg


th10_front-right-1024x448.jpg


th10_front1-1024x448.jpg
 
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If you stack the radiators (aka have them attached to eachother with a fan in the middle), see if you can run them in parallel. My buddy tested it and found that parallel stacked rads are better at heat dissipation than series.

so it would go

Loop >___/ Rad1 \_____>loop
...............\ Rad2 /
 
Interesting concept, but even with CaseLabs that may cause a space issues when stacking 2 480s. Also, I don't see how stacking radiators would improve cooling vs just running them in parallel?
 
Stacking and running in parallel mean two different things.

Stacking is placing one radiator on top of the other.

Running in parallel means splitting the flow of the loop between the two radiators, and then joining the flow after the radiators. Running in series means that you run from one radiator to the other.
 
I don't think you need two radiators either.

I have this:

HD6990,HD6970, all cards running 880/1300 plus a Ci7 930 running at 4.2GHz.

The whole shebang is cooled by one measly Swiftech 3.120 radiator with resrvoir, and powered by an MCP655.

The loop essentially reaches an equilibrium temperature of 48C during gaming.:D

But who am I anyway...........do the right thing and have fun.:D
 
Tsumi said:
Stacking and running in parallel mean two different things.

Stacking is placing one radiator on top of the other.

Running in parallel means splitting the flow of the loop between the two radiators, and then joining the flow after the radiators. Running in series means that you run from one radiator to the other.
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Isn't the flow "split" even if you "stack" the radiators?
Parallel to me would imply two seperate loops.
 
magoo said:
Isn't the flow "split" even if you "stack" the radiators?
Parallel to me would imply two seperate loops.
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I dont get why you would want to stack rads anyways but yeah i agree parellel is like two lines running together but never touching so i would say it is like two loops running together but seperate.. Ya know? I am still confused why you would want to stack rads.. Tsumi will you explain please? thanks..
 
magoo said:
I don't think you need two radiators either.

I have this:

HD6990,HD6970, all cards running 880/1300 plus a Ci7 930 running at 4.2GHz.

The whole shebang is cooled by one measly Swiftech 3.120 radiator with resrvoir, and powered by an MCP655.

The loop essentially reaches an equilibrium temperature of 48C during gaming.:D

But who am I anyway...........do the right thing and have fun.:D
Click to expand...

HEY!! this is the HARDforum one 360 isnt enough sorry you dont cut it haha jk........ a 6990 lets you in lol
 
magoo said:
Isn't the flow "split" even if you "stack" the radiators?
Parallel to me would imply two seperate loops.
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Serial is when the water flows through one radiator, then flows through the second radiator. Parallel is when you split the flow so that it runs through both radiators at the same time. So when you stack the radiators, it depends on how you have them setup. Stacking is more a way to cool both radiators with a single set of fans. In thesecond's diagram it looks like they have them setup in parallel.

Also, parallel is not like creating 2 loops. It does not reduce the restriction, you have the same amount of restriction on the loop, perhaps more depending on how you split the loop. Also the problem sometimes with running parallel, is that more water might flow faster through one split than the other, providing less cooling to that other item and sometimes can create problems with your loop altogether (this happens when one split has more restriction than the other, water will first try to follow the path with least resistance).

Also, 2 6990s will put out a lot more heat than a 6990 and a 6970. A 6990 puts out more heat than 2 6970s since it is 2 6970s on a single card, with less space to cool each gpu. So consider you are putting out more heat than 4 6970s.
 
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Stacking rads gains you a few advantages. You can fit more rads in a small space, you can have more air flow through said rads with less fans than if they were seperate, and therefore you may also decrease your noise level.

You dont need perfectly fresh air flowing through your rad, even if the air is warmed by another rad, it will NOT be warmer than the water in the loop and it will still dissipate quite a bit of heat. And since you can have fan/rad/fan/rad/fan you can have very high pressure, high flow uni-directional air movement which reduces turbulence and by extension increases cooling potential.

Seriously, stacking rads works very well. Theres a couple year old case mod here called Arcygenical Silverstone edition (or something liek that). Very good example of how to stack rads and run them in parallel.
 
Here was my stacked setup. 2 MCR 320s. I was cooling a q9550, x48 NB, 2 4870s. My temps were 37c idle and 55c load all with some 1900rpm Scythes that needed some more static pressure. I recently moved so I had to tear it down. I am now deciding on rebuilding or upgrading. Good luck with you loop.

two.jpg


Link to build
 
Joni Nitro said:
Here was my stacked setup. 2 MCR 320s. I was cooling a q9550, x48 NB, 2 4870s. My temps were 37c idle and 55c load all with some 1900rpm Scythes that needed some more static pressure. I recently moved so I had to tear it down. I am now deciding on rebuilding or upgrading. Good luck with you loop.

two.jpg


Link to build
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Nicely done!
 
Thanks, it all tore down right now. I should have had the rads on their sides for better air flow.
 
if you go with 2 pumps I would do 2 separate loops, if you go with one pump then do one loop :)

Always K.I.S. with watercooling.
 
Justintoxicated said:
if you go with 2 pumps I would do 2 separate loops, if you go with one pump then do one loop :)

Always K.I.S. with watercooling.
Click to expand...

That was my first plan, not sure if a single 480 can deal with 2 6990s. Seems like not alot of people running this setup so I may be the guinea pig. :)
 
Started a blog of my build. We'll see if I can keep it current.
 
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That was my first plan, not sure if a single 480 can deal with 2 6990s. Seems like not alot of people running this setup so I may be the guinea pig
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I thought I had answered that earlier :(

Take a reading of your air-cooled temps before and during a heavy gaming session, do the same on water with the single 480 rad, and you will be amazed. The dual 6990's will be childs-play for a quality 480 rad setup.

No push-pull- or high-speed fans, just a nice and quiet setup. Invest the money you would waste on 'additional' watercooling gear on a quality PSU, it will do a lot more for system stability/reliability.

Enjoy.
 
MrBean_Oz said:
I thought I had answered that earlier :(

Take a reading of your air-cooled temps before and during a heavy gaming session, do the same on water with the single 480 rad, and you will be amazed. The dual 6990's will be childs-play for a quality 480 rad setup.

No push-pull- or high-speed fans, just a nice and quiet setup. Invest the money you would waste on 'additional' watercooling gear on a quality PSU, it will do a lot more for system stability/reliability.

Enjoy.
Click to expand...

I did not mean to sound like I discounted your contribution. I just meant that there are not that many people who actually running this setup. As you can see I did build it using a single loop. :) Thanks!

http://th10.roadczar.com/
 
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