First step into head-fi: Have Grado sr225i on the way, and some specific questions...

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Volume

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So I'm excited as hell about finally getting a set of Grado sr225i headphones delivered, and want to get a few things straight. I'll do my best to underline my main points for all you skimmers out there:

(1) These headphones are low impedance, but from what I've read I would still benefit greatly by having a DAC+headphone amp instead of my onboard ALC892 sound hardware, right? I've been torn between the FiiO E9 and the NuForce uDAC 2.

(2) Also, what is the benefit of pairing up the E9 with an E7??? I can't find the reason for this, but it seems people buy both and dock the E7 onto the E9. Will the E9 itself suffice?

(3) When I receive the headphones in a couple days, I will use them with the 1/4" to 1/8" Grado adapter to plug directly into the "green port" on my onboard sound, just like any other headphones or 2.0 speakers. Should I have my Windows sound properties format set to its maximum of 24bit, 192kHz? I realize that the quality depends on the source material, but is it a good idea to just leave this sound format maxed out?

(4) I plan on using Foobar as my music player (I have FLAC audio mostly and don't expect great things from mp3 formatted sound even with great headphones). I will be using MPC-HC for movies. These two uses are my main intentions for these headphones. I'm coming from a long use of "gaming" headsets like Corsair HS1 and Steelseries Siberia v2 and neither of those were very impressive for movies and music. They do their job in games, but I'd like to see what the Grados can do. Is it too risky to use expensive and sensitive cans like the Grados for games like BF3 (a game with its good share of bass and explosions)? The money I paid for these cans doesn't come easily for me so I just want to make sure I treat them right and take precautions. I would absolutely hate to ruin a diaphram or something because of a loud game.

(5) I've been reading a lot in these forums on peoples' questions on DAC+AMP vs Sound Card, and so far I'm coming up with the idea that a DAC+AMP like the ones I mentioned in (1) would be the best option if I'm not too worried about virtual surround sound capabilities. Do I have the right idea with that statement?

Thanks for reading all that text! Hopefully I'll have a nice headphone setup to show off in the photo thread soon, and I welcome any input you guys may have for me.
 
Volume said:
(1) These headphones are low impedance, but from what I've read I would still benefit greatly by having a DAC+headphone amp instead of my onboard ALC892 sound hardware, right? I've been torn between the FiiO E9 and the NuForce uDAC 2.

(2) Also, what is the benefit of pairing up the E9 with an E7??? I can't find the reason for this, but it seems people buy both and dock the E7 onto the E9. Will the E9 itself suffice?

(5) I've been reading a lot in these forums on peoples' questions on DAC+AMP vs Sound Card, and so far I'm coming up with the idea that a DAC+AMP like the ones I mentioned in (1) would be the best option if I'm not too worried about virtual surround sound capabilities. Do I have the right idea with that statement?
Click to expand...

1. I've heard some pretty crappy stories about the uDAC, do some Googling - check out HeadFi.

2. The E7 is a DAC/AMP, the E9 is an AMP with no USB DAC. The E9 will not function without the E7 if using USB. I'm kind of a FiiO fan boi as I have had a very excellent experience with my time using the FiiO E7 and E9 so take my words with a grain of salt. The E9 is a great little AMP and will work with a new FiiO DAC coming out soon which is a significant upgrade over the E7. Personally the price is right for both the E7 and E9 and the E7 pairs pretty nice with any portable audio units you may have. Really audio is subjective and when I go looking for new gear it's the science I look at not the touchy feely audiophile bullshit people tend to feed each other (not that there is anything particularly wrong with this). I just find how I hear something is different from others so I'd rather just make sure the gear is built well and built on real science and determine whether the sound produced by said gear is "earthy, harsh, metallic" sounding on my own. Again Google reviews like you would any other piece of gear and again I find HeadFi to be a pretty great source for learning audio basics.

5. I believe soundcards to be a giant waste of money for a few reasons:

Nothing has really changed in the industry since crapative dominated the market - new soundcards are just rehashed garbage running on creative chips.

Design, putting an audio source inside of a computer without any source of real insulation just seems like a bad idea. I've used sound cards from a variety of brands and all of them had bad noise pollution. Auzentech at least lets you swap out some of the OAMPS which was fun to toy around with but to be honest I'd rather just spend the cash on a real amp and some nice cans.

I like my sound natural and find things like 3DCMSS to distort and just sound terrible.

My 2c.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Volume said:
So I'm excited as hell about finally getting a set of Grado sr225i headphones delivered, and want to get a few things straight. I'll do my best to underline my main points for all you skimmers out there:

(1) These headphones are low impedance, but from what I've read I would still benefit greatly by having a DAC+headphone amp instead of my onboard ALC892 sound hardware, right? I've been torn between the FiiO E9 and the NuForce uDAC 2.
Click to expand...
the nuForce is a DAC and Amp, the E9 is just an amp.

(2) Also, what is the benefit of pairing up the E9 with an E7??? I can't find the reason for this, but it seems people buy both and dock the E7 onto the E9. Will the E9 itself suffice?
Click to expand...
the E7 is the DAC the E9 is the amp. when the E7 is docked in the E9 it just makes cabling easier. you can use the E7 with another amp and the E9 with another DAC just fine.

(3) When I receive the headphones in a couple days, I will use them with the 1/4" to 1/8" Grado adapter to plug directly into the "green port" on my onboard sound, just like any other headphones or 2.0 speakers. Should I have my Windows sound properties format set to its maximum of 24bit, 192kHz? I realize that the quality depends on the source material, but is it a good idea to just leave this sound format maxed out?
Click to expand...
ideally speaking you should not have your sound resampled. especially not in windows. there are different schools of thought as to whether a good upscaling DAC is a good idea or not, but coming out of your sound card, you should be using source bitrates. any good media player like fubar can handle this fine and the windows setting becomes irrelevant.

(4) I plan on using Foobar as my music player (I have FLAC audio mostly and don't expect great things from mp3 formatted sound even with great headphones). I will be using MPC-HC for movies. These two uses are my main intentions for these headphones. I'm coming from a long use of "gaming" headsets like Corsair HS1 and Steelseries Siberia v2 and neither of those were very impressive for movies and music. They do their job in games, but I'd like to see what the Grados can do. Is it too risky to use expensive and sensitive cans like the Grados for games like BF3 (a game with its good share of bass and explosions)? The money I paid for these cans doesn't come easily for me so I just want to make sure I treat them right and take precautions. I would absolutely hate to ruin a diaphram or something because of a loud game.
Click to expand...
you wont break them if thats what your asking.

(5) I've been reading a lot in these forums on peoples' questions on DAC+AMP vs Sound Card, and so far I'm coming up with the idea that a DAC+AMP like the ones I mentioned in (1) would be the best option if I'm not too worried about virtual surround sound capabilities. Do I have the right idea with that statement?
Click to expand...


you cant really say whats better or not without getting into the details, for example a good sound card + a good amp can easily beat the pants off of many dac amp combos. i think the main thing is that you kind of reach a cieling with internal audio components. the computer is such an electrically noisy environment that high end audio products seek to get the audio outside the computer as early in the chain as possible...
 
I think most of the questions you had have been answered fairly well. The only thing I'd like to add is that distortion and/or volume will make you take your headphones off way before you get to the point of damaging them. That is of course unless you're in the habit of having your volume at full when you start to play something or you're using rather cheaply made headphones.
 
For you, I'd probably get a Xonar STX (if you don't need analog 5.1/7.1 outputs for speakers). It functions as an excellent DAC with an adequate headphone amp, which (by my ears) sounds quite good with Grado SR225 (pre-i).

I haven't been convinced that any sub-$200 external DAC+amp combo can do nearly as well (the new-ish FiiO E10 might be good competition based on its low price point), especially for anyone who does any gaming. Despite being in a 'noisy' computer, the measured noise (see: http://www.stereophile.com/content/asus-xonar-essence-ststx-soundcards-measurements) on the ST/STX would make most DAC+amps jealous.

I wouldn't bother with an E9 for low impedance headphones; the E7 will drive them just as well with a better matched output impedance and a lower noise floor.

As for the uDac-2, this link tends to cover it: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/nuforce-udac-2-drama.html :eek:
 
I'd also like to point out that drivers and software for sound cards are typically giant piles of turd. If you go the sound card route I pray for you.
 
bare said:
I'd also like to point out that drivers and software for sound cards are typically giant piles of turd. If you go the sound card route I pray for you.
Click to expand...

I'm actually deciding on staying away from internal hardware (sound cards), and am now looking at the FiiO E10 (I don't care for the protability that the E7's internal battery provides).
 
Yeah sorry if I come off as harsh. I've just had so many bad experiences with sound cards over the past 7 years that eventually I just gave up, found HeadFi, and haven't turned back since.
 
I have had a set of SR325 for many years (Pre i, aluminum housings). Awesome set of cans. Have done many hours of gaming with them. Have used the same boom mic that came with an audio card right around the same time I got these cans. I have mainly used them right through my Promedia speakers headphone output in order to use the volume control (volume control is a must in gaming as these do not have in line volume like many headsets) Anyhoo, if you are to look on the Grado site, you will find the RA-1 amplifier. All that amp is.. it is a very simple single chip amplifier a lot like what is in the Promedia control pod. I have also made a clone of the RA-1.. I should pull that out again..

Anyhoo, Low impedance means they are very easy to drive with a source. You do not really need an amp with these. I have played from my ipod many nights without the external amp and they still sound great. I have also hooked them up to the HiFi system.. bliss.
 
Sound card drivers have gotten better over time, even Creative's... Install size is still comparatively huge but they're well behaved. That being said, a USB DAC is generally more trouble free. The only reasons to stick with a sound card are either cost or gaming applications (particularly in the case of older games). If you're using onboard right now then a DAC like the E7 could be a nice upgrade.
 
1. What's wrong with an internal sound card? It's a DAC, too, but produced in higher numbers, so you get more for your money, and often more features. In the end, from a software point-of-view, a sound card is going to have better drivers and support.

3. Set it to 24/48, since that's what movies will stick to. More on this on my next point.

4. Use ASIO, Wasapi, or Kernel Streaming to give whatever device's DAC you choose the exact format you are playing, overriding the Windows setting (above). I think you will blow out your ears before you ruin a headphone driver.

5. I'd stick with a sound card, since those headphones don't really need an amplifier.

People with crazy electrical noise running rampant inside of their computers need to stop claiming that makes a sound card a bad idea and evaluate what [OTHER] FAULTY component is causing this to happen. I've never had any kind of phantom noise enter my sound cards, only onboard sound, and they have got tons better in recent years.
 
grimster said:
People with crazy electrical noise running rampant inside of their computers need to stop claiming that makes a sound card a bad idea and evaluate what [OTHER] FAULTY component is causing this to happen. I've never had any kind of phantom noise enter my sound cards, only onboard sound, and they have got tons better in recent years.
Click to expand...

Zero sound cards have proper shielding and the Xonar has this dinky little plate that does nothing.

Sound cards are a bad idea. They are relics of the past most new games have excellent audio so the majority of the time the flexibility of sound cards in the form of CMSS is useless.

If you are happy with your sound card then I'm happy for you. I've used all the major brands, all the drivers were buggy, and the improvement of sound quality was nil. To each their own I suppose.
 
AGAIN:

People with crazy electrical noise running rampant inside of their computers need to stop claiming that makes a sound card a bad idea and evaluate what [OTHER] FAULTY component is causing this to happen.
 
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