Does my 2500k really suck this bad?

Viper87227

Viper87227

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Jun 2, 2004
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I just put this system together two weeks ago. It's the first system in my signature (except for the ram, which is currently a 1.6v Gskill Pi 1600mhz 4GB kit). Right now, 4Ghz is not stable ast 1.375v. I can prime for about a half hour before I get a hard reset. Temps max at 66/67/71/68, so a little warm, but I don't think unreasonable? I was told the threshold to stay under was 75C. I'm new to Intel, anyone care to take a look at my BIOS settings and see if something should be set differently?

jsbnn7.png
 
Need to get those temps under control. I'm sure you have other setting issues. I'm using the stock overclocking tool in the BIOS on my ASROCK, and can run 4.8 but prefer 4.6 for maximum stability. I don't break 70C at 1.40v - the default voltage my motherboard chooses.

I would also set your RAM to run at default everything, to rule that out, get your CPU stable and cool, then overclock.
 
Those temps are fine, but that is really too much voltage for that overclock. Try resetting the Optimal defaults, then while leaving everything on Auto, change the Turbo multipliers to 40 and see what happens. With overclocks under 4.5 or so, you should be able to get a stable system using Auto voltages - the voltage will be higher (normally) than you'd need manually, but it should be able to give you a good starting point to go from.

Edit: Try running the RAM at 1333 also, just to eliminate that as a possibility.
 
Forceman said:
Those temps are fine, but that is really too much voltage for that overclock. Try resetting the Optimal defaults, then while leaving everything on Auto, change the Turbo multipliers to 40 and see what happens. With overclocks under 4.5 or so, you should be able to get a stable system using Auto voltages - the voltage will be higher (normally) than you'd need manually, but it should be able to give you a good starting point to go from.

Edit: Try running the RAM at 1333 also, just to eliminate that as a possibility.
Click to expand...

I did try the auto overclock, it was nowhere near stable. Things are getting a little interesting though. When I tried for 4Ghz at 1.3v, I would get a hard shut down after less than 5 minutes of P95. At 1.375v, I made it a half hour before it crapped out, so that did make a difference.

However, I lowered the ram to 1333 and I'm a hour and a half in with no problems so far. Maybe it was the ram, but if so... why did the added CPU voltage help?

Also, I know that shot is showing 1.410v. Actual voltage is 1.376v, this board under-volts by quite a bit.
 
Viper87227 said:
However, I lowered the ram to 1333 and I'm a hour and a half in with no problems so far.
Click to expand...

Take this with a grain of salt because I am certainly no expert but isn't it a known issue that Sandy Bridge CPUs and systems can potentially be unstable with RAM voltage over 1.5V? I thought I read that somewhere.
 
beto said:
Take this with a grain of salt because I am certainly no expert but isn't it a known issue that Sandy Bridge CPUs and systems can potentially be unstable with RAM voltage over 1.5V? I thought I read that somewhere.
Click to expand...

Well, I think the ram may have been the culprit. After seemingly OK priming, I'm now at 1.3v, 4Ghz and its been good for the past hour, last time I tried this I didn't make it five minutes. Ram is still at 1.6v, but 1333mhz instead of 1600mhz.
 
That ram speed + voltage shouldn't be an issue. Go ahead and try and reach 4 and 4.5Ghz at optimal (lowest) voltage with your ram underclocked. But you should look into a bios update.

Btw, 1.3v is way high for 4Ghz. I would peg that under 1.2v.
 
Viper87227 said:
However, I lowered the ram to 1333 and I'm a hour and a half in with no problems so far. Maybe it was the ram, but if so... why did the added CPU voltage help?
Click to expand...

Well, the memory controller is on the CPU, but I'm not sure if that would make any difference or not. Sounds like you are making some progress though, which is good.

Luckily for you, there is no appreciable difference in performance between 1333 and 1600 RAM, so you are good to go with underclocking it. You might also try undervolting it to 1.5V at 1333 and see if that works.
 
Looks like it was almost certainly the ram. I am running 4.5 @ 1.368v right now. Only 15 minutes into priming at the moment, so who knows if its stable... but its progress considering earlier 4.5 even with 1.4v would crash within 2-3 minutes.
 
Viper, again I don't know much about it but the RAM voltage issue is currently being discussed in another thread (if you haven't already seen it).

Link
 
beto said:
Viper, again I don't know much about it but the RAM voltage issue is currently being discussed in another thread (if you haven't already seen it).

Link
Click to expand...

No, I hadn't seen that, thanks.

Also, I got my temps a bit more under control. Apparently my motherboard was only running my H50 at 1000RPM when it should be 1400. I swapped fan headers and now the pump is running 1400RPM like it should, but the stock fan is now at 1000RPM when it was at 1700 before. Apparently MSI doesn't feel my fans should run over 1000RPM if they are on the case fan header. I'll have to get a fan controller to get everything how I want it seems, but getting the pump up to speed knocked my load temp by 8c
 
Get your ram voltage under 1.5v. Intel specifies that ram voltage over 1.5v will damage your processor.

Keep your ram at stock clock, overclock the cpu only.
 
thesecond said:
Get your ram voltage under 1.5v. Intel specifies that ram voltage over 1.5v will damage your processor.

Keep your ram at stock clock, overclock the cpu only.
Click to expand...

These are Intel's specs on SB:

processork.png


1.575v is the max safe limit on RAM. I agree with keeping it below 1.6v, and at 1.5 is at all possible, but something like 1.55v should be OK.
 
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Forceman said:
Well, the memory controller is on the CPU, but I'm not sure if that would make any difference or not. Sounds like you are making some progress though, which is good.

Luckily for you, there is no appreciable difference in performance between 1333 and 1600 RAM, so you are good to go with underclocking it. You might also try undervolting it to 1.5V at 1333 and see if that works.
Click to expand...

That's why I chose DDR3-1333 as opposed to DDR3-1600 - while the performance diff is minimal, the cost difference is "mega" (MicroCenter's "house" DDR3-1333, which is no slouch, is $42 per 8 GB pair, including tax, at the Fairfax VA location).
 
There is more to overclocking than just setting a multiplier and a voltage. You need to adjust your Load Line calibration and other factors as well.

My 2600K I used to have could easily clock to 5ghz however it required a little more voltage that others (1.48v) to run absolutely stable.

Cant wait to see what my I7-3930K can do when I get it in two weeks hopefully in stock.
 
tangoseal said:
There is more to overclocking than just setting a multiplier and a voltage. You need to adjust your Load Line calibration and other factors as well.
Click to expand...

Only if it doesn't work at a speed you are happy with.
 
thesecond said:
Get your ram voltage under 1.5v. Intel specifies that ram voltage over 1.5v will damage your processor.

Keep your ram at stock clock, overclock the cpu only.
Click to expand...
1.5 is fine and is exactly what he should be using if he has the proper 1.5 ram for his system. its only going above 1.575 that will not be recommended. even going to 1.65 would likely never damage the cpu but its certainly not a wise thing to do based on Intels specs.
 
Like others have said, get the RAM at1.5V asap!! What worked with 90nm chipsets isn't working with SB.
Your issues are caused by RAM.
 
Just throwing it out there but I am able to hit 4.5ghz stable with 1.34v on 2500K. I would say its your ram etc... also do something to get your temps down. WHile you are safe where you are the problem is that you are running out of MAX TDP headroom so if do in fact do something to stress the chip you might cause a thermal shutdown and the computer may lock up.
 
Temps in the low 70s are fine. Tjunction for these chips is something like 98C, and they don't start throttling until very close to that temp. Don't mix up Tjunction, read from the temp sensor and what RealTemp et. al. show, and Tcase, read at the top of the IHS. He has plenty of headroom there.
 
thesecond said:
Get your ram voltage under 1.5v. Intel specifies that ram voltage over 1.5v will damage your processor.

Keep your ram at stock clock, overclock the cpu only.
Click to expand...

Well, technically stock for this ram is 800mhz 8-8-8-21 at 1.6v. It's older ram. I had purchased a new set of ram, but it was bad, so this is just filler ram until the RMA processes. I'll just keep this ram downclocked and undervolted, since it doesn't make a huge difference anyway.

umcpgrad said:
not every cpu can be oced to 4.5+ ghz and up
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I'm aware of that... my concern was really more than my CPU wouldn't seem to overclock at all, which is abnormal for a chip generally known to be a good overclocker. Regardless, it was not the CPU that was the problem.

tangoseal said:
There is more to overclocking than just setting a multiplier and a voltage. You need to adjust your Load Line calibration and other factors as well.

My 2600K I used to have could easily clock to 5ghz however it required a little more voltage that others (1.48v) to run absolutely stable.

Cant wait to see what my I7-3930K can do when I get it in two weeks hopefully in stock.
Click to expand...

I'm no stranger to overclocking, I've just never had an Intel system before, and things are a bit different. I spent a lot of time reading up on the various settings and I think I have a good idea of what settings I should be using. My motherboard does't quite go as deep as some though (Asus...). LLC is vdroop on my board, and my only choices are auto or low vdroop.

Forceman said:
Temps in the low 70s are fine. Tjunction for these chips is something like 98C, and they don't start throttling until very close to that temp. Don't mix up Tjunction, read from the temp sensor and what RealTemp et. al. show, and Tcase, read at the top of the IHS. He has plenty of headroom there.
Click to expand...

I've got them down into the high 60's now after fixing my pump. Now my fans are running slower because for some reason it refuses to run anything on the case fan headers over 1000 RPM. I've got a fan controller on the way, and that should get my temps right where I need them to be. I've also got an H70 coming soon.

EDIT: I dropped my ram down to 9-9-9-24 667mhz at 1.5v, seems to be going fine. Currently priming at 4.5. 1.33v, seems to be doing just fine. Temps maxing out at 63C this time. I'm going to keep bringing the voltage down to see how little I need for 4.5 stable. Really, really happy it was my ram that was the problem though.
 
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Yes set the memory to 1.5v and then you should be able to hit 4GHz+ by just changing the multiplier. Only once you start to push 4.5GHz should you change the vcore at all.
 
tangoseal said:
You need to adjust your Load Line calibration.
Click to expand...

Only to force it to regular/normal/minimum, imho. I messed with LoadLineCalibration recently and concluded that it is very evil. The problem is that VRMs it can't respond fast enough from idle->load transition. Better to accept natural Vdroop under load. Besides, a slightly higher voltage at idle isn't much to worry about, methinks.
 
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Why is everyone freaking out over 1.6v ram? Shouldn't he be running it at what it's rated for?
 
MrSneis said:
Why is everyone freaking out over 1.6v ram? Shouldn't he be running it at what it's rated for?
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Have you read the thread? Yes, generally you want to run memory at the voltage it is rated for. HOWEVER, you can damage the last couple generations of intel chips if you use memory with voltage over 1.5V.
 
I've been using my ram at 1.6v in two different rigs for a while, lowering the voltage just results in system crash at startup or inability to boot -- even at stock core clocks. IE little to no bearing on overclocking ability.

Shouldn't overclocking by nature decreases the lifespan of the chip to begin with?

If you ask me maybe upping the vcore and ensuring better cooling could help. He could then back down to where he is "comfortable" with.
 
MrSneis said:
I've been using my ram at 1.6v in two different rigs for a while, lowering the voltage just results in system crash at startup or inability to boot -- even at stock core clocks. IE little to no bearing on overclocking ability.

Shouldn't overclocking by nature decreases the lifespan of the chip to begin with?

If you ask me maybe upping the vcore and ensuring better cooling could help. He could then back down to where he is "comfortable" with.
Click to expand...
what is your ram rated to run at though? if its 1.5 ram then you have a problem.
 
Damn Viper I have almost the same setup just different Ram.

The i5 2500K is a beast on its own, I have been playing BF3 on Max setting and this
CPU kicks it's ass. I think CPU usage might reach 77% max. @ stock speed 3.2GHZ

I do want to overclock and your post will be very helpfull since I have the same setup.
I have seen the MSI after burner software, but never have seen what you posted.
What software is that?

Im a total newbie to OC

also the mobo not supporting 1000+RPM kinda worries me since I want to get water cooling
before I OC my cpu (Antec Kuhler H2O 620). Please post what fan controller you are getting, I think im going to need one as well.
 
NastyNative said:
Damn Viper I have almost the same setup just different Ram.

The i5 2500K is a beast on its own, I have been playing BF3 on Max setting and this
CPU kicks it's ass. I think CPU usage might reach 77% max. @ stock speed 3.2GHZ

I do want to overclock and your post will be very helpfull since I have the same setup.
I have seen the MSI after burner software, but never have seen what you posted.
What software is that?

Im a total newbie to OC

also the mobo not supporting 1000+RPM kinda worries me since I want to get water cooling
before I OC my cpu (Antec Kuhler H2O 620). Please post what fan controller you are getting, I think im going to need one as well.
Click to expand...

It's MSI's click bios software, its on the disc that came with the board (or their website). It's nothing special, just allows you to access all the BIOS options in windows. It still needs to reboot to change anything, so it's not much different than just rebooting to your BIOS and making changes there.

As far as the 1k RPM thing goes... the actual CPU fan header is fine, its just the case ones that seem to be limited. So, the pump being on the CPU fan header is now working at 1400RPM like it should, and I just got a cheapy fan controller for the other fans in my system so that they aren't held back.
 
If there is a new bios out for your motherboard,I would consider updating it also.
 
djsi said:
If there is a new bios out for your motherboard,I would consider updating it also.
Click to expand...

There is one newer, but the changelog didn't look like it did anything worthwhile. Live update isnt working, and it didn't seem like anything worth the trouble.
 
Viper87227 said:
There is one newer, but the changelog didn't look like it did anything worthwhile. Live update isnt working, and it didn't seem like anything worth the trouble.
Click to expand...

Some mobo companies arent good at having comprehensive changelogs so you never know for sure.
 
Viper87227 said:
I did try the auto overclock, it was nowhere near stable. Things are getting a little interesting though. When I tried for 4Ghz at 1.3v, I would get a hard shut down after less than 5 minutes of P95. At 1.375v, I made it a half hour before it crapped out, so that did make a difference.

However, I lowered the ram to 1333 and I'm a hour and a half in with no problems so far. Maybe it was the ram, but if so... why did the added CPU voltage help?

Also, I know that shot is showing 1.410v. Actual voltage is 1.376v, this board under-volts by quite a bit.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. I thought the same thing until I used my multimeter and the test points on the mobo. Voltage is rock solid. If it set it to 1.39v in BIOS my meter shows 1.387v at idle and 1.384v at load. That's less than 0.01v of droop. Same for the RAM. It's VERY close to what you specify.

Better think twice about going crazy on voltage thinking it's lower than it is. The on-board sensor reporting voltage to the BIOS, and subsequently what CPU-Z reads, is not accurate at all.
 
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