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I'm not sure this will be a surprise to anyone. Jobs talked smack on Intel for years...right up until the day before Apple switched to Intel processors. 
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Jobs Bashed Intel In His Biography
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collegeboy69us
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genius my ass -- when you put together all the stories of his crazy antics and ravings over the decades, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he had some kinda mental issue. ]
/Glad he's gone
//won't miss him a bit.
/Glad he's gone
//won't miss him a bit.
bigdogchris
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Steve Jobs criticizing another company for not being flexible?
lolwut
lolwut
I'm not sure this will be a surprise to anyone. Jobs talked smack on Intel for years...right up until the day before Apple switched to Intel processors.
He was right. Intel was slow and lethargic and was happy to keep the introduction of new technology at its terms and snails pace. Then AMD started kicking Intel's ass and look what happened.
You're right. Intel is a cog in the system of control. Think about it. They have monopoly control, maybe ~90% of the computer processor market. Computers are the most powerful invention in history. They have a lot of secrets that's for sure.
Outamyhead
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I'm not sure this will be a surprise to anyone. Jobs talked smack on Intel for years...right up until the day before Apple switched to Intel processors.
Right...so why the heck did he start using Intel for the Mac range of products, and Samsung for their phone & tablet components, if he doesn't like other companies learning about their tech?
Intel learning stuff about processors from Apple?...HA!!!
What a contradictory arse.
Unbelievable, really, the actual extent of the RDF Jobs wrapped himself in. I suppose when you're that wealthy you can afford to wrap yourself in a fantasy world in which all things technological revolve around Apple, and in a world in which everyone is trying to rip off your ideas, and in a world in which only Apple is capable of an original thought. Heh...
Now that he's gone my guess is that the RDF he spawned wherever he went will dissipate fairly quickly--there's no one around anymore who's insane enough to reinforce it...
Now that he's gone my guess is that the RDF he spawned wherever he went will dissipate fairly quickly--there's no one around anymore who's insane enough to reinforce it...
Steve Jobs criticizing another company for not being flexible?
lolwut
This was my reaction as well.
if you two read the article it explains that the sticking point was who would design the product
and if you've been following how Jobs ran things it's pretty clear he controlled the minutiae of Apple's products, even down to the layout of the PCB. I've read in numerous places that there's a lot to be admired in the efficiency of the layouts of the Apple products.
well anyway, read the article because it's a different kind of impression than this thread is giving off (unsurprisingly)
and if you've been following how Jobs ran things it's pretty clear he controlled the minutiae of Apple's products, even down to the layout of the PCB. I've read in numerous places that there's a lot to be admired in the efficiency of the layouts of the Apple products.
well anyway, read the article because it's a different kind of impression than this thread is giving off (unsurprisingly)
How about reading the article rather than just the HardOCP quote snippet? He was already using Intel in Macbooks when he said the quote because he wasn't talking about laptops or desktops. He even said, and it's quoted in the article, 'At the high performance level, Intel is the best'. He was talking about phones. He was talking about devices that require very low power usage. Let's take the Atom for instance. The lowest idle power state direct from Intel is 100mW. The lowest idle power state of ARM? Under 1mW. Can you really say Intel doesn't have a few things to learn about lower power usage from ARM designs?
The started the Lisa/Mac with the 68000, which was a better chip at the time.
However, Motorola fell too far behind yet he complains that Intel was slow?
Rather than admit he made a mistake, they switch to the Power PC CPU, and spend the next couple years exaggerating the performance in their advertisements (for example, a single Photoshop benchmark that used a filter optimized for the power PC)
After falling even further behind, they finally a switch to Intel chips.
The real reason they tried to stay away from Intel Chips was to make it easier to maintain a monopoly over the Mac Hardware.
Having different hardware made it easier to pitch the "Mac is better cuz I say so" crap too, since the average consumer couldn't compare them 1:1.
Now that Macs are literally just shiny PCs running a different OS, anyone that compares specs and isn't blinded by the shiny package can see that they are overpriced and underwhelming. Amazing what marketing can do.
And as far as the "hate" many of us have for Apple/Jobs, it is due in part to years of snarky Apple marketing riddled with (mostly) baseless PC-bashing grating on our ears, and the religious fanboy arguments defending said Apple superiority claims to the last breath, facts/benchmarks/reality etc be damned.
I certainly didn't wish any bad health on the guy, but I won't miss him as far as computers go.
Now that Macs are literally just shiny PCs running a different OS, anyone that compares specs and isn't blinded by the shiny package can see that they are overpriced and underwhelming. Amazing what marketing can do.
And as far as the "hate" many of us have for Apple/Jobs, it is due in part to years of snarky Apple marketing riddled with (mostly) baseless PC-bashing grating on our ears, and the religious fanboy arguments defending said Apple superiority claims to the last breath, facts/benchmarks/reality etc be damned.
I certainly didn't wish any bad health on the guy, but I won't miss him as far as computers go.
Behold_4iamBoggins
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Is it really that serious? Who cares if he hated intel, really? I mean they're just computers, and he had to do what he had to do to keep his business running. His company makes great products I think. If he was a bit of a loon so what? No one deserves cancer.
No, that's not clear at all. Mostly that's myth. Jobs was an overseer and a critic. He gets a lot of credit for doing great things, but unfortunately he gets a lot of credit for the work of others as though he did that work himself. For example, there is this myth that Jobs "invented" the iPod, or even had the original idea for it. He didn't. There's this myth that Jobs alone decided to abandon the PowerPC platform for Intel. He didn't. (Engineers at Apple made that push. Jobs stubbornly refused for a long while until the reality of what the engineers were saying about the inability of PowerPC to scale was no longer deniable. And when that happened, Jobs turned on his RDF and overnight the Intel Core 2 Duo that according to Jobs a day earlier was a dog in comparison to PPC was now a hot rod that previous Apple processors could not touch.)
I'm all for giving Jobs credit where credit is deserved. I am not for myth and hagiography.
Bingo!
I guess you are not aware of this story:
http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.p...Order=Sort by Date&detail=high&showcomments=1
"So we invested another $5,000 or so to make a few boards with a new layout that routed the memory bus in a Steve-approved fashion. But sure enough, the new boards didn't work properly, as Burrell had predicted, so we switched back to the old design for the next run of prototypes. "
So the portion directly above the part you quoted:
What exactly is this saying to you that you felt it relevant to the thread?
LOL, from the article:
He sounds like a child. Obviously someone with no clue what he's talking about, technically.
+1, if you want to know what the "hate" is a about, there you go.
Team Obi Juan
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"Bashed", lol.
uh, he was 26 when that story was written and I don't know how old you are but that's pretty much the reaction of all of us back then in the late 70's. and before this forum went the way it is currently people would post tons of hardware pr0n and drool over pcb's. you can dredge up some threads in the video card section and reviews around here, it's not like it's ancient history.
Are you having trouble with the difference between looking at nice pictures on a forum, and the stupidity of telling people who create functional designs you can't to do something else because it would look pretty?
I don't see how being 26 is relevant at all. By 26 anyone with brains should have figured out that they don't know what they don't know and not try to tell people who do know what their business should be.
nope, I'm having trouble how someone posting on a tech forum is taking issue with someone else admiring and advocating for the aesthetics of the guts of a computer. fucking seriously get off your high horse cuz you sound ridiculous going down this path on this board
and incidentally, try some reading comprehension, because Jobs clearly *did* say in that piece you quoted that if they couldn't make it look better *and* work better then to do what they needed to do. So he didn't tell anyone what their business should be merely expressing an opinion which apparently a fairly recent crop of [H] members seem to take issue with
You can't be serious. For years PC users complained Mac had the upper hand looking snazzy back when everyone had beige computers. Thanks to enthusiast users such as us and other hardware sites, the PC industries wised up and made things "prettier", or "sexier" or "badass'er" or whatever you want to call it.
You going to tell me that majority of [H] don't think this look fucking awesome?
http://hardocp.com/article/2011/09/28/asus_maximus_iv_extreme_motherboard_review/
How about this? It has a goddamn gun magazine on the board - a far cry from Job's complaint that the wires are too far apart.
http://hardocp.com/article/2011/09/27/gigabyte_g1sniper_2_sandy_bridge_motherboard_review/
That's just the motherboard. Need I link coolers and cases and game cards and light kits that we in [H] like to employ in our rigs because it looks pretty, or badass, or sexy?
The hypocracy in this forum regarding Job's "prettying" Apple products is astounding.
To anyone else that hasn't yet: RTFA. Jobs was bashing the Intel mobile platform which does indeed suck monkey balls. It's quite silly that Intel can stay on top of the game with a flick of the wrist in the x86-64 market but they fumble so badly in the power efficiency field.
It's the engineers' job to design the board and he told them to redesign it based on looks. That's the definition of "telling someone their business". He told them their work was "ugly" (to which an engineer correctly responds - wtf?) and should be redone, wasting time to market, employee hours, and money.
If that was the case I can see how in Jobs-land a redesign made sense, but from the standpoint of what 99% of users see/care about it's still stupid. I fail to understand "drooling over a PCB" but from comments on that site, that does seem to have happened at least a bit. (Anyone have a clue how time-consuming, wasteful, and pointless it is to change a working PCB design so it looks prettier? Just getting the damn thing working can be hell enough.) That said, hardware pr0n these days consists mostly of watercooling setups, sleek cases, motherboards w/ colors/heatsinks to be seen in a case window etc. - flashier stuff chips and traces. THAT I can understand as you're actually going to see it!
Comparing apples and oranges. Those are aesthetic features which don't need to function a certain way, or e.g. cases need only a minimum of functionality which is rarely affected by aesthetic decisions. Or even if it is, a case that's a bit warmer/louder won't stop the computer from working. A PCB's one-and-only-job is to function to electrical specifications. Yes, motherboards now include lots of bits like the gun magazine, but as long as there's enough heatsink mass it won't affect the board's function one bit how it looks. Rerouting traces and moving components so it "looks pretty" can and will prevent a board from operating properly. Not to mention - as the engineer stated - nobody's going to see it. (Nobody using it at least.)
As for Intel power efficiency ... it's always a trade off b/w CPU performance and power efficiency. Obviously Intel and most everyone else making computers feel that Intel makes the best tradeoff since they use Intel's chips. Intel continues to push power levels down, show me someone else who makes chips as fast with a lower power envelope. ARM's getting there but they're not there yet.
hey, I want to share a no-bullshit story about an engineer
he told me that my chair sucked because it wasn't functional
I told him that I understood that function is important to an engineer, but that aesthetics are important to the rest of us
he wanted to get rid of the chair in the living room and replace it with an office chair and a desk
but I told him, seriously just let it be. it improves the look of the place. and girls like to sit in it
about a year goes by and he says man can we get rid of that chair in the corner
I say no man, just wait, when you get a girlfriend you'll appreciate that chair
and now after 4 months of him and his girlfriend spending a lot of time together he finally tells me about 2 weeks ago dude you were right about that chair.
he told me that my chair sucked because it wasn't functional
I told him that I understood that function is important to an engineer, but that aesthetics are important to the rest of us
he wanted to get rid of the chair in the living room and replace it with an office chair and a desk
but I told him, seriously just let it be. it improves the look of the place. and girls like to sit in it
about a year goes by and he says man can we get rid of that chair in the corner
I say no man, just wait, when you get a girlfriend you'll appreciate that chair
and now after 4 months of him and his girlfriend spending a lot of time together he finally tells me about 2 weeks ago dude you were right about that chair.
Which is a physical object in the room, seen by all, often bought for aesthetics over function and for good reason. Obviously your chair was sufficiently functional for you to not need to replace it work, so the aesthetics were a plus. And if the GF likes it that IS function.
Trade off for what? It's a mobile chip. It's fine for what they are - and more efficient where they're needed - battery duration.
Don't tell me you're happy with "strong" Atom powered smartphones that can do 4 hours of calls and 2 hours of Angry Birds. Not a trade off I'd prefer.
And yes, I pulled the numbers out of my ass. There's no Atom powered phones to research to get numbers from, just a guestimate.