A Silicon Valley School That Doesn’t Compute

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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May 9, 2000
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In a world where the measure of success is judged by the level of technology employed, it’s refreshing to find some still holding on to old school values. In this case it’s literally old school. Smack dab in the middle of arch-typical technology hub of Silicon Valley exists a school steeped in tradition and not a computer in sight.

While other schools in the region brag about their wired classrooms, the Waldorf school embraces a simple, retro look — blackboards with colorful chalk, bookshelves with encyclopedias, wooden desks filled with workbooks and No. 2 pencils.
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Wow - such elegant concept, I wonder how does the school fares against the others in standard tests?
 
So they are instead putting their students at a real world disadvantage when it comes to mandatory computer skills to embrace what?

The modern world of jobs require you to not only be able to use a computer, but to be quick and efficient at it. That requires years of doing it every single day. Good job on this school putting its students behind the curve for no good reason.

God I hate our joke of an education system.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
So they are instead putting their students at a real world disadvantage when it comes to mandatory computer skills to embrace what?

The modern world of jobs require you to not only be able to use a computer, but to be quick and efficient at it. That requires years of doing it every single day. Good job on this school putting its students behind the curve for no good reason.

God I hate our joke of an education system.
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That was the first thing I thought of as well. We had a lot of students that came from poorer families at my old school. They could not afford computers with expensive office suits and high speed internet connections. The only experience they had with computers came from the school.
 
lol, like these kids don't use computers and tech at home, just like every other kid.

I applaud this, teach old school values and methods.

There isn't much of a need to teach kids basic computer skills these days, if you think there is you don't know a kid.

The is much of a need to teach kids basic human skills, if you think there isn't, you don't know a kid.
 
oh noes! they are depriving poor kids of technology in silicon valley!!!

lmao @ that concept.
 
stealthy123 said:
oh noes! they are depriving poor kids of technology in silicon valley!!!

lmao @ that concept.
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Yes, because you know every single person in silicon valley, and its not like our country is above 9% or anything.
 
wizdum said:
Yes, because you know every single person in silicon valley, and its not like our country is above 9% or anything.
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".....and its not like unemployment in our country is above 9% or anything"
 
wizdum said:
That was the first thing I thought of as well. We had a lot of students that came from poorer families at my old school. They could not afford computers with expensive office suits and high speed internet connections. The only experience they had with computers came from the school.
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Yea, except it's a private school with 15-25k tuition a year, so you probably won't have too many of the poorer families sending their kids there.
 
Kids at that age do not need to be using computers 24/7. There is nothing pencil and paper can't do that a computer can for teaching basic grammar and arithmetic skill. (which most adults lack) I've been watching my younger sibling growing up and the school didn't employ any actual computer skills in the school until about grade 4 for basic Microsoft word use and safe internet use.(shock, same for me) If you honestly think this makes him have a disadvantage in any sort of "standard test" then that's just laughable. All you need to do is work with your kids and make sure they know everything comfortably instead of just asking if they did there homework while they sit around playing video games all day.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
So they are instead putting their students at a real world disadvantage when it comes to mandatory computer skills to embrace what?

The modern world of jobs require you to not only be able to use a computer, but to be quick and efficient at it. That requires years of doing it every single day. Good job on this school putting its students behind the curve for no good reason.

God I hate our joke of an education system.
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They're generating students who can answer a questions without goggling it. That's what.

You don't need a fucking iPad to learn algebra. I see kids like that all the time. They don't KNOW math. They KNOW how to use a calculator. They have learned NOTHING other than how to punch buttons on a box.

Schools like this turn out thinkers and doers. Not button mashing no-nothings with shallow theoretical understanding.

So, RTFA.
 
Oh, and one more thing: I bet you these kids are perfectly OK with technology at home. Look at who sends their kids to these schools. They aren't Luddites.

Kids don't need to learn "mandatory computer skills" in school. They get that at home. My kindergartner doesn't use computers at school to learn skills, "mandatory" or other wise. But he sure as hell knows how to use them.

So all the kerfuffle about not learning computer skills is misplaced at best. Or misguided at worst: iPads, PCs etc are tools. When the education focus is on mashing buttons rather than actual learning you might as well be building a generation of no-nothing serfs. Or entry level IT/GeekSquad employees. Take your pick.

When I interview new developers I can always tell those who've been through a system that values button mashing process over actual understanding and learning. They're the ones who need to hit MSDN or Google to grok fundamental things like trees and lists. This is waht schools that focus on the tools and standardized tests over actual leanring produce.

However, I can guarantee you that the kids who go to the Waldorf schools slay at the standardized tests. Why? Because they can SOLVE problems. Not recite canned answers by rote, choking when the question falls outside their canned data store.
 
ianken said:
They're generating students who can answer a questions without goggling it. That's what.

You don't need a fucking iPad to learn algebra. I see kids like that all the time. They don't KNOW math. They KNOW how to use a calculator. They have learned NOTHING other than how to punch buttons on a box.

Schools like this turn out thinkers and doers. Not button mashing no-nothings with shallow theoretical understanding.

So, RTFA.
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That's what college is for... I didn't have one math class that allowed calculators. that and in calculus it really isn't that helpful.
 
Being proficient with technology is probably one of the most important skill sets you can have. I've met countless people who are highly intelligent or talented at what they do, but because a lack of computer literacy, they either slow things down or are unable to compete.

The world changes, move on. We don't use abacuses anymore, but we use calculators. So much so, calculators are a requirement for the classes now. Eventually, tablet computers will be just as common, and text books and tests/quizzes/homework/worksheets will be done on them. What's wrong with that? Should just make things harder than they have to be by ignoring efficiencies given to us by technology just because people feel it's somehow less "real"? That's a complete joke and a slap in the face to the increasing power of human technology.

You're not going to learn less from using any type of technology as a teaching aid. You'll only learn less if the teacher isn't willing to use it to it's fullest potential or doesn't care.
 
@dmin said:
That's what college is for... I didn't have one math class that allowed calculators. that and in calculus it really isn't that helpful.
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What's college for? Undoing a shitty public education? Why should we have to tolerate that?
 
And finally here's a quote from the Seattle Waldorf school site:

"All of our students also use computers regularly in their high school classes, for ongoing research projects and for analysis in math or science."
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It helps when you know WTF you're talking about.
 
ROCKFISH said:
Kids at that age do not need to be using computers 24/7. There is nothing pencil and paper can't do that a computer can for teaching basic grammar and arithmetic skill. (which most adults lack) I've been watching my younger sibling growing up and the school didn't employ any actual computer skills in the school until about grade 4 for basic Microsoft word use and safe internet use.(shock, same for me) If you honestly think this makes him have a disadvantage in any sort of "standard test" then that's just laughable. All you need to do is work with your kids and make sure they know everything comfortably instead of just asking if they did there homework while they sit around playing video games all day.
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Agrees 100%

I don't think 8 hours away from a computer will set them back any in the real world, especially since technology hasn't increased overall intelligence. I worked as a network tech in the school system where I live now, and technology wise, they are given everything. Doesn't mean a thing. Technology is a tool for learning but it all boils down to 2 things, the desire to learn and parental involvement.
 
Also, for those whining about the "education system". These are private schools. Tuition is $18700 a year for the high school.
 
Brak710 said:
but we use calculators. So much so, calculators are a requirement for the classes now. .
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This comment makes me feel older than what I am (28)..lol. When I was in school (from elementary through college), I had to write out my problems and show work while explaining how I got the answers. In high school, it was crazy because my teacher would let us use the calculator during class but for exams, it was all about what we knew, not what we could type in. New day in age though..:D
 
Dekoth-E- said:
So they are instead putting their students at a real world disadvantage when it comes to mandatory computer skills to embrace what?

The modern world of jobs require you to not only be able to use a computer, but to be quick and efficient at it. That requires years of doing it every single day. Good job on this school putting its students behind the curve for no good reason.

God I hate our joke of an education system.
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There are dozens of schools where they don't have everything computerized, point of this thread was that it is SV where alot computing companies are located in one place.
 
Anyone else get the vibe from the WSJ as "look at what the quaint rich folk in Silicon Valley are doing now?"
 
When was the last time you hired an old school tv repairman to fix your new 55" 3D tv?

... Old school typewriter repairman to fix your laptop?

... Old school mechanic to fix your fully computerized modern vehicle?

... Old school telephone repairman to fix your iphone or android?

They're really going to screw these kids over...
 
Too hip for computers. It's funny though. If this were about a poor school system in Bumblebutt, Nebraska and how they can't afford computers for their students people would be lamenting about how deprived the children are. Yet because this is a wealthy private school in Silicon Valley they get lauded for their 'unconventional' approach to education.
 
On second thought, the people sending their kids to these schools are so ultra rich that it doesn't matter. Daddy will be happy to see little tommy go and become a carpenter, because little tommy has a trust fund worth 78 million dollars lol

Ah well, wish I was little tommy. :)
 
RyanLucier said:
On second thought, the people sending their kids to these schools are so ultra rich that it doesn't matter. Daddy will be happy to see little tommy go and become a carpenter, because little tommy has a trust fund worth 78 million dollars lol

Ah well, wish I was little tommy. :)
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Ain't that the truth!!! lol
 
RyanLucier said:
When was the last time you hired an old school tv repairman to fix your new 55" 3D tv?

... Old school typewriter repairman to fix your laptop?

... Old school mechanic to fix your fully computerized modern vehicle?

... Old school telephone repairman to fix your iphone or android?

They're really going to screw these kids over...
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Oh yea, these poor kids are going to be so screwed. Forced to learn how to do the basics of grammar and arithmetic with out using an overpriced tablet while the teacher does shit all. No, they will learn just fine and because it is a private school, special care is given to each kid so they fully understand everything. Even if it wasn't a private school it would still be fine because last time I checked those skills you learn in grade school are fundamental and don't require the aid of anything but practice and understanding.
 
to the naysayers, do you really think that people would put these kids in a school that did NOT excel at what they do? good private schools run anywhere from 20 - 35k a year, that yearly wages for some.

secondly I can also make an argument that having to LEARN math at that level is better done without a computer. even when I was in school (Christ, when did I get that old :( ) I can't tell you how many of our class went threw algebra without ever really understanding what they were doing. its one thing to learn a algorithm but quite another to understand it.
 
Not so sure that busting out the papyrus and abacus is particularly "refreshing" or preparing students for a 21st century world that they will need to get jobs in upon graduation, that short of flipping burgers and loading boxes into trucks is likely to involve modern electronics.

So all in all, pretty damn retarded.

And IMO tests should all be open book now, as memorization has very little utility in the modern work environment. No engineer worth his salt for example is going to design something on the fly on a napkin. Understanding concepts and being able to manage information quickly is what is important.
 
ROCKFISH said:
Oh yea, these poor kids are going to be so screwed. Forced to learn how to do the basics of grammar and arithmetic with out using an overpriced tablet while the teacher does shit all. No, they will learn just fine and because it is a private school, special care is given to each kid so they fully understand everything.
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I have attended private schools from middle-school to half of high-school, and they are not all superior.

They fill niches based on parental demand, which at some schools can just mean a religious focus where bullshit like creationism is taught because that is what the parents want, not because it is a superior educational foundation for the students and will help them succeed in life. In other schools, it may just be for delinquents that require special attention and care just to keep them out of fights and showing up for class.

The idea that private, any private, is somehow inherently better is very wrong.
 
Ducman69 said:
I have attended private schools from middle-school to half of high-school, and they are not all superior.

They fill niches based on parental demand, which at some schools can just mean a religious focus where bullshit like creationism is taught because that is what the parents want, not because it is a superior educational foundation for the students and will help them succeed in life. In other schools, it may just be for delinquents that require special attention and care just to keep them out of fights and showing up for class.

The idea that private, any private, is somehow inherently better is very wrong.
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most any private school is better, sorry but I have had some limited dealing with public schools and their inability to fire staff pretty well gives the battle to private, the teachers union is about the worst thing that every happened to education. but to avoid going to the soap box let me add this, while there are indeed niche schools like you said if the government ever went to voucher based education system do you really think the public school could compete? if I every have kids (knock on wood) I hope to be in a position that I can offer them a school like this.
 
ianken said:
They're generating students who can answer a questions without goggling it. That's what.

You don't need a fucking iPad to learn algebra. I see kids like that all the time. They don't KNOW math. They KNOW how to use a calculator. They have learned NOTHING other than how to punch buttons on a box.

Schools like this turn out thinkers and doers. Not button mashing no-nothings with shallow theoretical understanding.

So, RTFA.
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That is completely laughable. Computers and technology didn't cause any of what you are ranting about. Standardized testing that doesn't actually test their ability to learn but their ability to memorize caused that.

Fact of the matter is computer skills are mandatory if you want to do something other than flip burgers at mcdonalds. Expecting students to get this practice at home is unrealistic and putting these students at a disadvantage.

Well, perhaps not. This is a private school in silicon valley. These kids are likely just going to end up CEO's thanks to their rich parents and just hire people to do the real work anyhow.
 
I'm the most computer literate person I know and I started out playing games and tinkering with DOS boot-up disks. Only thing school introduced to me was basic 3D animation and Visual Basic programming towards the end of high school. So I think these kids will be just fine.

In fact I encourage kids who are able to visualize numbers in their own head and know how to control their hands to write on paper. Something many people younger and older people are lacking today.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
So they are instead putting their students at a real world disadvantage when it comes to mandatory computer skills to embrace what?

The modern world of jobs require you to not only be able to use a computer, but to be quick and efficient at it. That requires years of doing it every single day. Good job on this school putting its students behind the curve for no good reason.

God I hate our joke of an education system.
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Strange, I never had integrated computers in the schools like they do know and my "mandatory computer skills" exceeds those of most.

As already mentioned this will teach kids to figure things out for themselves, without a computer. This will force teachers to... TEACH and not load up math blasters (or whatever variant they use now) as a way to hammer home math.

I applaud this school, it fucking sickens me hearing how K-6 grades absolutely NEED computers in the class room. Yanno we had computers back in my day, it was in one fucking room, and all 3 of them were Commodore PETs. At best they allowed an "interactive" way to do repetition like math problems. We learned elsewhere.
 
What computer skills exactly are kids going to benefit from?
 
I find it refreshing to read about a school that is teaching the basics and in the process teaching thier students how to think, not what to think.
We really need to get the schools back to small class sizes, focused on basics. Once you learn to read and do basic math; you can learn anything. Computer gadgets are not a whole lot of help there. Besides, computer skills are not really required for most jobs, those skills fall into the group of nice to have skills.
As for collage, please. I remember a time when most software companies would not hire a programer with a collage degree, now most software companies won't hire you without one.
Either way, it was an interesting read.
 
Two things pretty much deterimine if a person is to to be successful.

1. Raw intelligence
2. Discipline/Focus

This has been documented time and time again. Technology does not help either of those two. For the most part, technology hurts #2.
 
Trepidati0n said:
Two things pretty much deterimine if a person is to to be successful.

1. Raw intelligence
2. Discipline/Focus

This has been documented time and time again. Technology does not help either of those two. For the most part, technology hurts #2.
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Maybe some people but I had huge trouble concentrating with paper and pencil back in grade school. It wasn't until I was 6 and got my first computer at home that I could really sit down, concentrate and focus on something. I would say a good 40% of my knowledge comes from working on computers and learning things on my own and of course the biggest school of all, the internet.
 
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