SFPD Accompanied Apple Security on ‘Raid’

A follow-up story to the article published yesterday clarifies the facts just a bit. A spokesman for the San Francisco Police Department issued a retraction on the department’s earlier statement concerning officers accompanying Apple security searching for a missing phone prototype. It now seems that Apple security was accompanied by “three or four” plainclothes officers on the search.

SFPD spokesman Lt. Troy Dangerfield said the three or four plainclothes officers at the scene "stood outside while the Apple employees scoured Calderón's home, car, and computer files.”

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What right do they have coming into your house????????????????????????????????

Sounds like a great use of our police resources. Like the cops in SF have nothing better do. Dec. 23 2102 can't come fast enough. It could be a good thing

fvbounty said:

What right do they have coming into your house????????????????????????????????

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You didn't read the article did you.

fvbounty said:

What right do they have coming into your house????????????????????????????????

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Read the article. This moron gave permission.

When will people learn? Even if you know for a fact that you have absolutely nothing to hide, never EVER cooperate with the police. If they want to search your premises, tell them to go fuck themselves and get a warrant. If they want to ask you some questions, tell them no.

The only way the justice system works properly is if you use every legal means at your disposal to cockblock the police. The police aren't going to do you any favors, so you should never do them any either. Contrary to what the cops will tell you, being cooperative gets you zero consideration. You're always better off being as uncooperative as legally possible.

NKDietrich said:

Read the article. This moron gave permission.

When will people learn? Even if you know for a fact that you have absolutely nothing to hide, never EVER cooperate with the police. If they want to search your premises, tell them to go fuck themselves and get a warrant. If they want to ask you some questions, tell them no.

The only way the justice system works properly is if you use every legal means at your disposal to cockblock the police. The police aren't going to do you any favors, so you should never do them any either. Contrary to what the cops will tell you, being cooperative gets you zero consideration. You're always better off being as uncooperative as legally possible.

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"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

I've recently won two cases because I didn't even answer the door and the cops eventually came in with no warrant and the evidence got tossed. The judge didn't even leave his bench to consider, he ruled immediately and we won the motion to suppress.

It was appealed by the State and we won in the State Appeals Court as well.

NEVER OPEN YOUR DOOR, if they have a warrant they will just kick your door in so opening the door does NOTHING for you.

Comparing the two stories it seems like somebody at Apple called in a "request" for the police to change their story and prevent a lawsuit or more probably just mitigate the potential damage from one.

Antonius said:

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

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actually that guy is right. cops are not there to get you off the hook, they are there to get you on the hook. There is nothing you can gain from letting them in to search all your stuff. you should always make the cops get a warrant before being able to get inside your house.

if they ever come to your door. talk to them outside your house with your door closed. dont invite them in so you can talk, cause that means you give them permission to search your house.

you never have to open the door! Fourth Amendment + Castle doctrine
and if they break in, you defend your house!

Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

California (California Penal Code § 198.5 sets forth that unlawful, forcible entry into one's residence by someone not a member of the household creates the presumption that the resident held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury should he or she use deadly force against the intruder. This would make the homicide justifiable under CPC § 197 [3]. CALCRIM 506 gives the instruction, "A defendant is not required to retreat. He or she is entitled to stand his ground and defend himself and, if reasonably necessary, to pursue an assailant until the danger ... has passed. This is so even if safety could have been achieved by retreating." However, it also states that "[People v. Ceballos] specifically held that burglaries which 'do not reasonably create a fear of great bodily harm' are not sufficient 'cause for exaction of human life.'” The court held that because a "trap-gun" was used, the doctrine did not apply.

Antonius said:

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

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Speaking of idiotic things

NKDietrich said:

Read the article. This moron gave permission.

When will people learn? Even if you know for a fact that you have absolutely nothing to hide, never EVER cooperate with the police. If they want to search your premises, tell them to go fuck themselves and get a warrant. If they want to ask you some questions, tell them no.

The only way the justice system works properly is if you use every legal means at your disposal to cockblock the police. The police aren't going to do you any favors, so you should never do them any either. Contrary to what the cops will tell you, being cooperative gets you zero consideration. You're always better off being as uncooperative as legally possible.

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This

Hyperian said:

actually that guy is right. cops are not there to get you off the hook, they are there to get you on the hook. There is nothing you can gain from letting them in to search all your stuff. you should always make the cops get a warrant before being able to get inside your house.

if they ever come to your door. talk to them outside your house with your door closed. dont invite them in so you can talk, cause that means you give them permission to search your house.

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Do NOT open the door. If you open the door they can easily create 'exigent circumstances' which will allow them to enter your house without a warrant.

Door closed, mouth shut is the only way to go.

"you never have to open the door! Fourth Amendment + Castle doctrine
and if they break in, you defend your house!"

While I do hate a majority of law enforcement good luck on defending your house, THEY WILL SWARM YOUR ASS HARDER THAN A ZERG RUSH!!!

MethylONE said:

Do NOT open the door. If you open the door they can easily create 'exigent circumstances' which will allow them to enter your house without a warrant.

Door closed, mouth shut is the only way to go.

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You can open the door, step outside and close the door behind you. I would not open the door, and instead call the police station or sherrif's office (who ever showed up) and call to see the reason for the visit.

Trimlock said:

You can open the door, step outside and close the door behind you. I would not open the door, and instead call the police station or sherrif's office (who ever showed up) and call to see the reason for the visit.

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Every time you open the door the officers will manipulate the situation to create those 'exigent circumstances'. They can say they smelled something funny, or that you were acting 'nervous' and they are worried about their safety or that you might go back into the house and destroy evidence.

They will then enter your house to do a 'security sweep' which is essentially a search. They will be very thorough because they claim to be looking for weapons. If they find anything they will occupy your home until they get a warrant, then they will claim to start a search.

The entire time they can say things like 'you verbally assaulted them'. They will hold your house without arresting you for 'security reasons' then if you say anything they can use it against you since you were not under arrest yet.

I'm a 4th amendment expert because I've spent years in courts as the 'accused' and I won it all by following the rules.

Im eager to see if this guy can/will fight back

Why is it that everyone knows their rights a little too well. As if maybe this has either happened to you or you are prepared to for WHEN it does happen? Also, if cops are showing up to your door why does everyone here act as though they have swastikas on their arms? I am not a cop but I know enough to know that they all don't get off on breaking down doors and finding reasons to shoot you in the face. Why do people spend so much time and effort finding ways to defend themselves when they are doing something they know is wrong?

Having grown up on the south side of Chicago I can tell you from personal experience that cops ARE NOT your friends. You do not give them permission to search your car, or home without a warrant. They will do, or say anything to trip you up.

In my most recent case, the cops fabricated all the evidence they used to create a case against me. I know that they knew I had pot growing in my house but they had no legal way to know that. I believe a dirtbag officer named Jonathan Cute used IR cameras to look into houses and noticed my grow lights. He then jumped through a bunch of hoops to get his team to come to my house.

Cute by the way had a team of drug agents years earlier that were indicted on federal charges for manufacturing evidence. The team was disbanded and were going to court when the prosecutions key witness disappeared. Cute moved to Orlando and joined the OPD where he went on to shoot an unarmed man during a routine traffic stop SIX times. He and his partner swore they thought the guy was going for a gun. Later he set the tazer record by tazing 60 people in ONE YEAR. One of the people he tazed sued the department and the department lost. That was in 2007 and as of now OPD has not paid, they just keep appealing and the delaying. Cute lost his job and went on to the FDLE where he joined a group of cowboy cops known as the ‘Duke Boys.’

When they came to my house the had a trained dog sniff all over and it never alerted but all the cops said they could smell mj, that’s bs, the dog couldn’t even smell it when he was IN MY HOUSE. They broke into my house through the back door and beat the shit out of me, I had no weapons and did not resist at all. They separated my right shoulder which now has calcified tendonitis. They kept me cuffed for over 9 hours while they struggled to get a warrant approved. They had to re-write the warrant four times and go to several different judges before they could get one to sign off on it.
During this wait period the ordered pizza and threw the crusts on the floor. Several of the 20 cops that were ‘securing me’ smoked in my house and spit tobacco on the floor. They kicked in doors that were UNLOCKED, broke the folding doors off the closets, kicked holes on in the walls and broke my garage door off the track. NONE of that was remotely necessary.
Then every last one of the lied on their depositions, well at least the ones that actually showed up. They lied in open court. The dog handler said to the judge that the kind of pot I had was the reason why the dog couldn’t smell it. The judge laughed at him.

I also see no viable reason why pot should be illegal so I don’t believe that I was doing anything wrong. Judge Thurgood Marshall once said, “Do what’s right and let the law catch up.”

Nowadays you can’t even take pictures of a cop without him grabbing your camera and stomping it.
So yeah, I have a little bit of a problem with cops and you would too if you ever had to interact with them.

Kenworth said:

Why is it that everyone knows their rights a little too well. As if maybe this has either happened to you or you are prepared to for WHEN it does happen? Also, if cops are showing up to your door why does everyone here act as though they have swastikas on their arms? I am not a cop but I know enough to know that they all don't get off on breaking down doors and finding reasons to shoot you in the face. Why do people spend so much time and effort finding ways to defend themselves when they are doing something they know is wrong?

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What planet do you live on?

Lets assume you live on this one, and are just incredibly naive....

All it takes for you to go to jail is one crazy neighbor that's convincing enough in front of a judge, to have a warrant signed. I know this from personal experience. I managed to get released after a few hours and the case was eventually dismissed, but being locked up for no reason other than someone doesn't like you, is a real eye opener.

I am very respectful of Law enforcement, and have worked for the local FCI as a guard. that being said, You NEVER allow police to search your person, belongings or property without a warrant. be respectful, but decline to talk to them without an attorney after you determine they wish to question you for any reason that implies you may be of interest for whatever reason.

Do not lie to them, ever. but do not volunteer information. be respectful. and cooperate to the extent your rights as a citizen require. This is assuming your innocent and just happen to be in the path of an investigation. If your growing pot in your mom's basement, well, sorry about your luck.

Kenworth said:

Why is it that everyone knows their rights a little too well. As if maybe this has either happened to you or you are prepared to for WHEN it does happen? Also, if cops are showing up to your door why does everyone here act as though they have swastikas on their arms? I am not a cop but I know enough to know that they all don't get off on breaking down doors and finding reasons to shoot you in the face. Why do people spend so much time and effort finding ways to defend themselves when they are doing something they know is wrong?

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Because our law enforcement system is corrupt as hell. Also why do you think half of the shit we are ready to defend ourselves against is wrong, last I checked half of the laws on the books are either there to create revenue, or to further corporate/political agendas, nothing about preventing wrong doing. If I want to consume certain substances that do no harm to anyone but myself then why the fuck not, it's not about right or wrong.

MethylONE said:

Every time you open the door the officers will manipulate the situation to create those 'exigent circumstances'. They can say they smelled something funny, or that you were acting 'nervous' and they are worried about their safety or that you might go back into the house and destroy evidence.

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Or the 4 cops can simply say... "the owner gave us permission to search, I have 3 other police officers who can testify to that"

Kenworth said:

effort finding ways to defend themselves when they are doing something they know is wrong?

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Maybe because they don't believe it should be wrong? We're not talking kiddy porn here, maybe you have a little marijuana, why should it be illegal? or perhaps you actually found the prototype iphone because some retarded engineer took it out to show off to some girls at a bar and left it there, you take a good look at it, write an article, talk about it's specs... and all of a sudden Cease & Desist orders fall down on you like it's raining them...

Knowing ones rights, and actually using them also has the added benefit of making sure to keep the law enforcement side of things on the up and up.

motomonkey said:

I am very respectful of Law enforcement, and have worked for the local FCI as a guard. that being said, You NEVER allow police to search your person, belongings or property without a warrant. be respectful, but decline to talk to them without an attorney after you determine they wish to question you for any reason that implies you may be of interest for whatever reason.

Do not lie to them, ever. but do not volunteer information. be respectful. and cooperate to the extent your rights as a citizen require. This is assuming your innocent and just happen to be in the path of an investigation. If your growing pot in your mom's basement, well, sorry about your luck.

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You are not saying crazy stuff like "being as uncooperative as legally possible." You are making sense. And I hope I am not coming off as naive. I am a Marine and I have had my share of people saying that they want us there only to shoot at me later that night. What I didn't account for is everybody's local police. I have not had any of those bad experiences and our local police are pretty good to go from what I can tell.

That said, I would not let them come in to my house after arriving unannounced. That is where we get back to point. My astonishment was there due to people seemingly always trying to defend themselves from doing something wrong, while they are doing that something wrong.

MethylONE said:

In my most recent case, the cops fabricated all the evidence they used to create a case against me. I know that they knew I had pot growing in my house but they had no legal way to know that. I believe a dirtbag officer named Jonathan Cute used IR cameras to look into houses and noticed my grow lights. He then jumped through a bunch of hoops to get his team to come to my house.

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Judging by your handle, there was more than just weed

(granted, there's no reason whatsoever that should be illegal either)

Kenworth said:

You are not saying crazy stuff like "being as uncooperative as legally possible." You are making sense. And I hope I am not coming off as naive. I am a Marine and I have had my share of people saying that they want us there only to shoot at me later that night. What I didn't account for is everybody's local police. I have not had any of those bad experiences and our local police are pretty good to go from what I can tell.

That said, I would not let them come in to my house after arriving unannounced. That is where we get back to point. My astonishment was there due to people seemingly always trying to defend themselves from doing something wrong, while they are doing that something wrong.

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Yes but is the wrong they are doing really wrong, or was the law based on prejudice, corruption, and greed? You are still approaching this situation that we are defending our wrong doing when in fact it is not wrong just against the law. Right and wrong is a moral issue not a legal one, sure there are things that should be against the law because it is morally wrong such as murder, fraud, theft, B&E, etc... but there are an innumerable amount of laws that are in place not because it prevents wrong or keeps us safe as a society but because the law was bought and paid for or was instituted to keep a certain group of people down. Look back at the early 20'th century, there were very few laws against the personal use of drugs but then you start getting people who want to start banning stuff to fill an agenda. Weed is illegal not because of harm to society but because it would kill the cotton, and paper industries.

Genny said:

Judging by your handle, there was more than just weed

(granted, there's no reason whatsoever that should be illegal either)

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MethylONE was legal until 2010, but no I had nothing else. Alexander Shulgin is an old friend of mine and in one of our letters he mentioned it to me. I looked it up and found at it wasn't on the internet anywhere so I adopted it as my nick in all my games and on all forums.

For a very long time if you looked up MethylONE you would only find stuff I wrote.

Like http://methylone.tumblr.com/ or my published stuff on Amazon.

Genny said:

Judging by your handle, there was more than just weed

(granted, there's no reason whatsoever that should be illegal either)

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His handle is actually not representing meth it is representing methylone otherwise known as bk-mdma, a research chemical that mimics the effects of mdma.

randomdean100 said:

His handle is actually not representing meth it is representing methylone otherwise known as bk-mdma, a research chemical that mimics the effects of mdma.

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Quite familiar

Genny said:

Quite familiar

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I hit the post button right after I saw your winking smiley and guessed you already know what it was. news threads and no way to delete posts.

I hope that if I ever lose my cell phone, I will get the same treatment and attention from the police department.

fattypants said:

I hope that if I ever lose my cell phone, I will get the same treatment and attention from the police department.

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It's really shady how that went down. I don't know if they were technically breaking the law but their intention was certainly to intimidate and confuse the guy into giving up his privacy.

I hope has the guts to pursue some legal action. And Apple, shame on you. SFPD, I'd expect this from you...

randomdean100 said:

Yes but is the wrong they are doing really wrong, or was the law based on prejudice, corruption, and greed? You are still approaching this situation that we are defending our wrong doing when in fact it is not wrong just against the law. Right and wrong is a moral issue not a legal one, sure there are things that should be against the law because it is morally wrong such as murder, fraud, theft, B&E, etc... but there are an innumerable amount of laws that are in place not because it prevents wrong or keeps us safe as a society but because the law was bought and paid for or was instituted to keep a certain group of people down. Look back at the early 20'th century, there were very few laws against the personal use of drugs but then you start getting people who want to start banning stuff to fill an agenda. Weed is illegal not because of harm to society but because it would kill the cotton, and paper industries.

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I didn't want to go down that road because I don't do anything illegal besides speed if I am not paying attention to the speedometer. I don't want to say anything completely ignorant like,"If you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about." because my opinion of people who do drugs is very, very poor. That said, I actually tend to agree with the school of thought that it isn't hurting me so I tend not to care. If you want to sit around all day high, go for it. I don't respect you but I respect the right.

This conversation/debate is much bigger than me and I only bring opinion to bear when it comes to facts so I am not prepared to engage intelligently. Let me make an analogy to see if I can make my point. A guy buys a Ferrari. He loves to go fast knowingly breaking the law. When he gets pulled over he doesn't answer questions, and takes the police to court to check the radar gun, question the credibility of the officer, etc. The guy knew he was wrong, but still fought it. It is a stretch but that is the best I can come up with for 30 seconds of thought.

Kenworth said:

I didn't want to go down that road because I don't do anything illegal besides speed.

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Careful, Johnny Law is coming for you now. Methamphetamine is a serious offense.

(This is why it's advised to never speak to police.)

Kenworth said:

because my opinion of people who do drugs is very, very poor. That said, I actually tend to agree with the school of thought that it isn't hurting me so I tend not to care. If you want to sit around all day high, go for it. I don't respect you but I respect the right.

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Then you must not drink, smoke, or take prescription anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, painkillers, or anti-nausea medication, because MJ is far safer and more effective than any of those things. It is the most studied plant/drug in history, more than 22,000 published, peer reviewed studies from all over the world.

Ben Franklin was a grower and the paper made from his hemp was used to write The Constitution on as well as The Declaration of Independence.

The only stronger natural fiber is spider silk. The plant grows faster than even corn and absorbs more carbon then any other plant. Even if you discount the medicinal aspects the industrial applications are enormous.

Oh, and in my Mom's basement! LMAO. I'm a pro, my houses are beautiful.

Sometimes that media stuff around apple is too much. If they would be investigating something, K, but not corporate security service searching your house for stupid mobile phone. Sounds retarded in its sole point.

MethylONE said:

Then you must not drink, smoke, or take prescription anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, painkillers, or anti-nausea medication, because MJ is far safer and more effective than any of those things. It is the most studied plant/drug in history, more than 22,000 published, peer reviewed studies from all over the world.

Ben Franklin was a grower and the paper made from his hemp was used to write The Constitution on as well as The Declaration of Independence.

The only stronger natural fiber is spider silk. The plant grows faster than even corn and absorbs more carbon then any other plant. Even if you discount the medicinal aspects the industrial applications are enormous.

Oh, and in my Mom's basement! LMAO. I'm a pro, my houses are beautiful.

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The Difference being for whatever reason, right or wrong, MJ meth etc, is Illegal.

Back on topic, the guy that allegedly had the iphone, was a moron on several levels. 1, he picked it up, and didn't call the number on the phone that said "if found, call this number" you know its gotta be on all apples phones now 2, he tried to sell it, 3, He kept it turned on, and 4. he let Apple's goon squad in the door.

Someone is stupid to let anyone in their house to search for anything unless there is a threat of harm, then rights give way to self preservation but only temporarily. It is legal to shoot an uninvited invader, especially if it's a cop, unless that cop has a signed search warrant.

randomdean100 said:

Yes but is the wrong they are doing really wrong, or was the law based on prejudice, corruption, and greed? You are still approaching this situation that we are defending our wrong doing when in fact it is not wrong just against the law. Right and wrong is a moral issue not a legal one, sure there are things that should be against the law because it is morally wrong such as murder, fraud, theft, B&E, etc... but there are an innumerable amount of laws that are in place not because it prevents wrong or keeps us safe as a society but because the law was bought and paid for or was instituted to keep a certain group of people down. Look back at the early 20'th century, there were very few laws against the personal use of drugs but then you start getting people who want to start banning stuff to fill an agenda. Weed is illegal not because of harm to society but because it would kill the cotton, and paper industries.

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Morality is relative, the law is not. whatever my personal opinion or your is on the number of people in jail on minor drug charges, it doesn't change the law.

claiming Hemp is illegal because it would harm the cotton and paper industries? that's pulling a Woody Harrelson! Hemp is Illegal because it is a socially unacceptable mind altering substance that is perceived to be dangerous. anything else at this time is not applicable, even if there are claims for that being why it was banned originally.

Implying your a moral crusader because "The Man" is oppressing your right to get stoned doesn't carry much weight with society I am afraid...

MethylONE said:

Then you must not drink, smoke, or take prescription anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, painkillers, or anti-nausea medication, because MJ is far safer and more effective than any of those things. It is the most studied plant/drug in history, more than 22,000 published, peer reviewed studies from all over the world.

Ben Franklin was a grower and the paper made from his hemp was used to write The Constitution on as well as The Declaration of Independence.

The only stronger natural fiber is spider silk. The plant grows faster than even corn and absorbs more carbon then any other plant. Even if you discount the medicinal aspects the industrial applications are enormous.

Oh, and in my Mom's basement! LMAO. I'm a pro, my houses are beautiful.

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I know the evidence and argument is overwhelming. I did some research a while back. My mom is a huge advocate of just the hemp products that could benefit everyone. This is a touchy subject with me though. I have delved into unproductive forum conversation before with much less intelligent and informed people so I appreciate your candor.

To completely derail the original subject, I almost want to exclude marijuana in my thought of drugs. I have been pretty convinced in the past already about its benefits pretty much outweighing the almost non existent downsides. I am sure you could write at length the reasons it isn't legal and I know my state is trying to legalize it every so often and in some capacities it is. Is that why there isn't more of an effort to legalize and just to discretely use? I don't want to open a can of worms.