Best 24" Monitor for New Desktop

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mon6937

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Folks, I would like advice on finding the best 24" monitor to match up with my new Windows 7 system:

Dell XPS 8300
Intel Core i7-2600
ATI Radeon 5450 HD 1GB
8GB RAM
1TB Drive
16x DVD+/-RW drive
THX TruSound (integrated)

Primary uses:
Heavy office work, MS Word and Excel, PDF reading, email, web browsing, viewing web videos, viewing photos.

Secondary uses:
Viewing DVD movies (maybe Blu-ray drive in future?).

No gaming, no photo editing, no Eyefinity.

My monitor budget is $350 and I will consider TN, VA, IPS, etc. Don't need integrated speakers. I'm not in a rush and still use an old Dell 17" TN/CCFL matte panel with the new Dell XPS 8300. Willing to wait until early 2012 for a promising, recently announced monitor to reach the market.

Monitor Requirements:
* 24" HD LED backlight. Displays larger than 24" seem too big to me.
* Clear, easy-to-read text (Is 0.27 pitch ok? How much harder is it to read text on Dell AG 3H "aggressive" hard coat vs. typical Samsung or LG TN display?)
* Solid, stable base with minimal display wobble when typing
* Good colors and contrast (neither has to be great)
* Simple, elegant-looking (preferably black) bezel and base
* Power usage under 40 watts (typical)
* HDMI connection (preferable), DVI connection (acceptable)
* Response time (What's an acceptable response time for viewing movies, web videos and fast vertical scrolling of documents? Is IPS' 8ms ok? Should input lag be a consideration?)

List of Possible Candidates:
* Dell U2412M (Concerns: IPS AG coating makes text hard-to-read? Ghosting, motion blurring (affects movies?), clouding, backlight bleeding (QA/QC problems with all IPS displays?), overdrive trailing (don't know what that is), IPS "glow"?)
* Samsung SA650 (VA? Know little about VA technology.)
* Dell P2412H (Also VA?)

Please add any other monitor models I should consider. Is TN acceptable for my requirements and budget or should I go IPS or VA?
 
Thanks for the monitor recommendation. I'll add it to my list. I don't know what "opinion based data" means. I gave my monitor requirements hoping people can provide the names of some additional monitor models that I can focus on and compare.
 
mon6937 said:
Thanks for the monitor recommendation. I'll add it to my list. I don't know what "opinion based data" means. I gave my monitor requirements hoping people can provide the names of some additional monitor models that I can focus on and compare.
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Just because you like the way a screen with given specs looks doesnt mean anyone else will. And just because 2 screens have the exact same specs does not mean they have the same image quality.

Monitors are a VERY personal and subjective thing. Go shopping locally if you can and look before you buy.

If not, read reviews and take a chance, you might get lucky, or you might not.
 
I have a desktop with similar specs....I'm using a 23" HP Monitor right now....but if you can get external speakers....Dell monitors are really sharp imo
 
Yes, I do have external speakers and I'm considering U2412M and P2412H.

Thanks to those folks who responded. My reaction is that before I "take a chance" and hope to "get lucky" with a new monitor, I thought I'd narrow down the universe of monitors to a short list of candidates, saving time by focusing on those.

Hard Forum folks sure like the Dells. A local store has a Dell 27" UltraSharp floor model but it's running a fancy auto-demo video. I'd like to check the Dell AG coating to see its impact on text reading but the salespeople won't let customers fiddle with the monitor or try Word or PDFs on it. The Hard Forum experts have me scared as heck about the "aggressive" "crystalline" hard coat on the UltraSharps. I wonder how it compares to the matte panel on my old Dell E173FP. That's one worry and then there are the various other concerns I read about in a FlatPanelsHD.com review of the U2412M.

Thanks guys for the help so far.
 
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mon6937 said:
Yes, I do have external speakers and I'm considering U2412M and P2412H.

Thanks to those folks who responded. My reaction is that before I "take a chance" and hope to "get lucky" with a new monitor, I thought I'd narrow down the universe of monitors to a short list of candidates, saving time by focusing on those.

Hard Forum folks sure like the Dells. A local store has a Dell 27" UltraSharp floor model but it's running a fancy auto-demo video. I'd like to check the Dell AG coating to see its impact on text reading but the salespeople won't let customers fiddle with the monitor or try Word or PDFs on it. The Hard Forum experts have me scared as heck about the "aggressive" "crystalline" hard coat on the UltraSharps. I wonder how it compares to the matte panel on my old Dell E173FP. That's one worry and then there are the various other concerns I read about in a FlatPanelsHD.com review of the U2412M.

Thanks guys for the help so far.
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If it matters, all of the P series monitors are 16:9 @ 1080p, whereas the 2412 is 16:10 @ 1920x1200.

For the AG coating, I don't really notice it unless I'm within ~1 foot of the monitor, which is both not good for your eyes and unnecessary for a monitor of this size (I sit >1 arms length from my monitors normally). See if they'll let you see the monitor turned off, since then all you'll be able to see is the AG coating on the screen. This won't help you see the effect of the coating on text, but you can at least compare it to other matte screens you've seen before.

Also, hit up the 2412 thread if you're interested. 10e said he might start fiddling with the service menu, so he might be able to tweak it to address some of the issues that fphd had.
 
Thanks for the good ideas, khwain, such as the info about 10e on the 2412 thread. I'll check it out.

1920x1080 vs. 1920x1200 -- would the two screens' physical dimensions be the same (shoving an extra 120 pixels in the same physical vertical space) or would the 1920x1200 display be physically taller? If it's the former case, I'd expect text on the 1920x1200 to be harder to read, and in the latter case the readability should be the same.

Dell UltraSharp AG coating -- you cured me of my AG paranoia because I too sit at arm's length from the display so the Dell AG coating shouldn't impact me. I'll use your advice and try to check out the UltraSharp floor model with a blank screen.

TN vs. VA vs. IPS -- Still trying to get a handle on which way to go in terms of panel. Hard Forum contributors generally frown on TN and prefer IPS or VA. But I'll still add a new Samsung TN display and LG TN to my short list for comparison purposes.
 
mon6937 said:
Thanks for the good ideas, khwain, such as the info about 10e on the 2412 thread. I'll check it out.

1920x1080 vs. 1920x1200 -- would the two screens' physical dimensions be the same (shoving an extra 120 pixels in the same physical vertical space) or would the 1920x1200 display be physically taller? If it's the former case, I'd expect text on the 1920x1200 to be harder to read, and in the latter case the readability should be the same.
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Yes and no.
A 24" display is 24" inches any which way you look at it, which is why typically, 16:9 comes in 23" formats. I do not believe that you will find a single 16:10 in a 23" screen.
24" screens are different, some are 16:9 some 16:10. And this does mean that you get more work space in 16:10, but smaller pixels since the real estate is the same. Since you will work on this, 16:10 is better, it is considered the professional format.

mon6937 said:
TN vs. VA vs. IPS -- Still trying to get a handle on which way to go in terms of panel. Hard Forum contributors generally frown on TN and prefer IPS or VA. But I'll still add a new Samsung TN display and LG TN to my short list for comparison purposes.
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Costs drives your needs typically. So go with whats in your budget. If you can spend $400, got IPS (Dell U2412M)
Justify it like this: you will have it for no less than three years... an extra $50-$100 over three years is nothing especially since you will use it everyday.
 
mon6937 said:
. The Hard Forum experts have me scared as heck about the "aggressive" "crystalline" hard coat on the UltraSharps. I wonder how it compares to the matte panel on my old Dell E173FP. That's one worry and then there are the various other concerns I read about in a FlatPanelsHD.com review of the U2412M.
Click to expand...

I would hardly call Coating Crusaders experts, more like zealots when it comes to this issue. They have been creating so much hysteria around this issue that some people are avoiding good monitors without ever seeing them personally.

Someone like 10e is much more of an expert. He must have purchased 20 monitors by now and he always gives very detailed balanced reviews of their strengths and weaknesses.

From all reports the worse monitor with a coating that causes the most difficulty is the Dell U2711 and even then a great many people have no problem with it.

The coating on the 24" has never been an issue except for a tiny minority.

10e has had both a Dell U2711 and currently has U2412 and while he did find the coating on the U2711 distracting he has no issues with the one on the U2412.

From the reports of actual owners, the U2412 is a GREAT all around monitor for just about everything. I wouldn't let zealots who have never even seen one scare you away from it.
 
A 24" display with 1920x1200 has smaller pixels than 24" with 1920x1080. Won't smaller pixels make the text harder to read on the 1920x1200? I wasn't aware 16:10 is the "professional format" and is better.

Megalo, Snowdog, and others convinced me to keep the U2412M on my short list (my AG paranoia is shrinking). My short list remains Dell U2412M (IPS), Dell P2412H (VA), Samsung S24A650D (VA).

Leaning towards VA or IPS panel. My research indicates VA has the lowest black level (IPS second best), IPS has best colors and viewing angle (VA second best on both). TN is third best on all three traits. Those three traits are important for my secondary use of viewing movies and web video.

My primary use of office work/web surfing requires good text. I don't know which panel technology offers the easiest-to-read text. One panel comparison article advised when comparing actual floor models, check for color-tint problems when viewing black-on-white text.

I won't be gaming so I don't think I need to worry about response time, input lag, ghosting. Hopefully, those factors won't have a big impact on movie viewing and web videos.
 
I saw a Correction (dated 08/17/11) on tftcentral.co.uk reporting the upcoming Dell P2412H will not be a VA panel as first reported (on 08/4/11) but will be "TN Film" like its P2411H predecessor. The question becomes why replace the P2411H with the P2412H if it's the same?

Not interested in TN so I cut the P2412H from my short list: Dell U2412M (IPS), Samsung S24A650D (MVA). If you're aware of any 24" VA or IPS monitors (existing or announced) that have characteristics similar to the U2412M or S24A650D, please let me know. The monitor saga continues .....
 
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mon6937 said:
A 24" display with 1920x1200 has smaller pixels than 24" with 1920x1080. Won't smaller pixels make the text harder to read on the 1920x1200? I wasn't aware 16:10 is the "professional format" and is better.
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Pixel size difference is marginal. It is .270 mm vs .277 mm. The 1920x1200 is taller and has more physical screen area. Not just in pixels but in Square inches as well.

That extra vertical real estate is nice to have when working on documents, surfing the web or nearly anything.

Regarding any lingering fears about the Dell because of the matte coating. Dell has one of the best return policies anywhere. 2 of the monitors I purchased from Dell I returned for a full refund and zero cost to me. They paid the shipping as well.
 
professional format or 16:10 = for professionals, CAD, programming, spreadsheets, photoshop, etc...
people who actually use the screen to make a living. As snowdog said the extra 120 pixels make a difference, but it almost always costs more.

HDTV/Gamer format is 16:9 = movie watching in 1080p without black bars on the top and bottom, games that are scaled to provide a better field of view etc. And these are typically much cheaper.

Pixel size depends on two things, the resolution and screen size. A 30" lcd with 1920x1200 resolution will have bigger pixels than a 24" lcd with 1920x1200 resolution. Makes sense?

But again, it is very budget driven, and you will rarely hear anyone complain about small text on 24" 1920x1200.
 
I still have nagging concerns about the "bleeding edge" IPS and VA, as reported by HF contributors. My 7 year-old Dell E173FP TN/CCFL is a good performer, good quality build with rock-solid stand, excellent panel consistency when displaying black screen (no backlight bleeding, glows, etc), no dead pixels, and its 3H AG hard coat is not noticeable to me. Though I need to get a 24" HD monitor to take advantage of Win7 and other new technologies.

Some reviews on the web say TN technology made strides and is trying to close the gap with IPS and VA. Comparing TN to IPS, I have concerns about IPS:

* "IPS Glow?" (on black or mostly black screen). Why should I switch from a monitor with no glow to one with a glow? Is the glow inherent in all IPS panels?
* Hit-or-miss quality control? IPS dead pixel possibility,10e's comment about Dell U2412M bezel needing a clip installed near the Dell logo to make the bezel more sturdy?
* "Crystalline" AG hard coat on U2412M is still a nagging concern to me (some 2412M owners say it's no problem, others say it's "noticeable")
* Backlight bleed occasionally reported by a U2412M owner. Is that the same as "IPS Glow?"
* Panel uniformity problem reported by one U2412M owner?

IPS and VA are more expensive than TN so shouldn't IPS/VA have higher quality control than TN? How do IPS and VA compare to the best Samsung TN displays in terms of quality control? Or as some say, do HF contributors exagerrate the problems associated with IPS and VA (i.e., are those IPS/VA problems negligible compared to TN's inferiority)?

Though I like some of the features of TN monitors (inexpensive, response time), they're almost uniformly glossy bezels with cheap-o wobbly stands that shake when you type. My old 17" Dell display has a rock-solid base and matte black bezel. 7 years, not one problem.

If I upgrade to 24" IPS or VA, is there a decent chance I'll be doing RMAs with hit-or-miss panels, IPS glow, dead pixels? The only premium panel I've researched is U2412M. What are the odds the Samsung S24A650D will have a host of PVA-specific problems of its own?

I now understand why some people choose the free cheap-o TN panel when buying a new PC from Dell, ASUS or HP. Convenient. Not like this hit-or-miss, take-your-chances approach of getting a premium display. I wish I could easily compare three side-by-side floor models, U2412M, S24A650D, and a top-of-the-line Samsung TN display, but that's unfortunately impossible.
 
My Dell E173FP's viewing angles don't bother me because I sit directly in front of the screen and it's only 17". Does the TN viewing angle problem become severe on a larger TN screen such as 24" even if you sit in front of the screen?

I saw the "IPS Glow" videos on YouTube. Looks like IPS glow happens when you look at the display from wide angles. Is the IPS glow noticeable if you sit directly in front of the screen?

I like most everything about the U2412M but am still concerned about IPS glow, backlight bleeding, "crystalline" AG coating, dead pixels, panel uniformity, and panel quality control. Samsung S24A650D sounds promising too but I have PVA-related and QC-related concerns there, too.
 
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I checked out IPS and TN monitors at a local store and my new short list (in preference order) is: P2412H, U2412M, S24A650D. I'm also considering other 24+" TN monitors.

I looked at U2711 and LG IPS236V at the store. The AG coating wasn't noticeable to me. I saw the IPS glow on the two monitors with a blank screen saver. Backing away from the U2711 and LG 236V, the IPS glow disappeared. Didn't notice backlight bleed or tinting (yellow or otherwise). The text on the U2711 was messed up and distorted and window dragging was very jerky (lag?). The salesperson said the cause was display drivers that weren't set up right. So I couldn't do a full test of the U2711.

I spent some time at arm's length away in front of larger 25" and 27" TN monitors and was surprised the larger monitors didn't bother me as much as I thought they might for extended usage.

After my in-store research, I conclude:
  • Dell AG hard coat not a big deal (to me)
  • Color and contrast difference between IPS and TN not noticeable (to me) unless monitors are side-by-side
  • New TN monitors seem to have very wide viewing angles (170H/160V degrees!) that are good enough for me
  • P2412H and U2412M are preferable (for Dell quality, solid stand, clean look, 3-yr warranty)

I need to decide whether the better colors and contrast of U2412M vs. P2412H are important enough to risk possible U2412M issues such as backlight bleed, IPS glow, tinting, dead pixels, panel inconsistency, etc., as reported by HF contributors. I'm waiting on reviews of the P2412H.
 
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