How does gaming on a Plasma perform?

I sold my Panasonic plasma to my parents, it just didn't make a good monitor IMO. Are the blacks great and kick butt for movies like Dark Knight? Absolutely, but its just not worth the plethora of other sacrifices.

It wasn't power efficient at all compared to my edge-lit Samsung (five times the power usage), took longer to turn off and on, was extremely heavy limiting my wallmount options, much thicker, and I don't care what the manufacturers say there are still concerns with burnin even w/ pixel shifting on gaming and PC use.

You won't see burnin w/ normal television viewing and pausing now and then, but on your desktop your start menu is always in the same place, and when gaming, your HUDs likewise are fixed and often quite bright. Play the same game for hours and hours for long enough, and it and the start menu can burn.

W/ pretty close mimicry of true local dimming on edge-lit LCDs available now, I'd go w/ the Samsung UN55C8000 LCD personally... in fact, I am considering upgrading shortly, and moving my 6000 series Samsung 55 to the bedroom.
 
#1 LG does not make good plasmas. Typically black levels/contrast is on par with a 300$ monitor.
#2 Obviously the OP is an America, picking the biggest and cheapest display. Do you really want to live life as a stereo type?

1300$ Budget, ok.

Panasonic G25

Review
Review

Take 5 minutes to read these where you will find information about gaming. Thank me later.
 
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Ducman69 said:
I sold my Panasonic plasma to my parents, it just didn't make a good monitor IMO. Are the blacks great and kick butt for movies like Dark Knight? Absolutely, but its just not worth the plethora of other sacrifices.

It wasn't power efficient at all compared to my edge-lit Samsung (five times the power usage), took longer to turn off and on, was extremely heavy limiting my wallmount options, much thicker, and I don't care what the manufacturers say there are still concerns with burnin even w/ pixel shifting on gaming and PC use.

You won't see burnin w/ normal television viewing and pausing now and then, but on your desktop your start menu is always in the same place, and when gaming, your HUDs likewise are fixed and often quite bright. Play the same game for hours and hours for long enough, and it and the start menu can burn.

W/ pretty close mimicry of true local dimming on edge-lit LCDs available now, I'd go w/ the Samsung UN55C8000 LCD personally... in fact, I am considering upgrading shortly, and moving my 6000 series Samsung 55 to the bedroom.
Click to expand...

Ok thats totally good to know. Thats what i had heard like once so it had stuck with me but it was a long time ago so i wasnt sure if it still applied to todays plasma's. Cause what i am originally interested in, is a LED-LCD 55"...but i am hearing shifty things about "Edge-Lit" displays and they seep light around the edges and many other small annoyances cause its a fairly new technology. So i found the semi perfect tv, (Vizio 55 inch, 3D, 1080P, LED, 480Hz, Backlit etc) but its 3 inches deep, which is just to deep to wall mount where i want my tv. I need <2.5inches.
As for that Samsung, i agree with its Cnet review: DAMN ITS EXPENSIVE! It would be perfect except that cost. At most im wanting to spend like $2000. Why so little? Cause my tv is perfect right now. So im wanting to find a steal.

NCX said:
#1 LG does not make good plasmas. Typically black levels/contrast is on par with a 300$ monitor.
#2 Obviously the OP is an America, picking the biggest and cheapest display. Do you really want to live life as a stereo type?

1300$ Budget, ok.

Panasonic G25

Review
Review

Take 5 minutes to read these where you will find information about gaming. Thank me later.
Click to expand...

As for the American comment, no, its just a tv i saw that looked like it fit my needs and was a amazing price at a amazing store. Its half the price of my budget but if it had been a great tv, why waste another 1,000-3,000 dollars for a higher end tv? IMO that is the true american stereotype. Not getting what you need, but going way overboard.
 
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If it is half your budget, spend more and get the Panasonic VT20/25 (2000$) which is currently the best TV avaliable.

If it has to be thin the Samsung C750 series or Plasma C8000 series will do. The problem is the high input lag (41ms in game mode) on the Samsung C750 (and most high end LCD's), going to have to do some research to find out the lag on the Samsung plasmas.
 
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I have my HTPC listed in my sig hooked up to my PC-50VT25 by Panasonic.

A-Freaking-Mazing TV. If you have a cheap plasma from 5 years ago of course its horrible to game on. And plasmas are not made to sit 20 inches in front of a 50 inch screen. They are made for about 3-5 feet away minimum.
 
NathanP2007 said:
but i am hearing shifty things about "Edge-Lit" displays and they seep light around the edges and many other small annoyances cause its a fairly new technology.
Click to expand...
One of the lower models is fine as well, if budget is a concern. I am very happy w/ my 6000 w/ at the time I believe was $1400.

For one, you have to look out for the video-philes, as they will pay extremely close attention to little niggles the average consumer would not notice and would likely have to be informed to look for, and be completely indifferent to inconveniences, physical appearance, etc. I have one such friend that insists his gigantic ugly HD CRT is the best display ever made. Some of the complaints are also easily addressed in the TV menu. The auto-dimming power saving feature can be minimized or disabled, black levels and brightness/contrast adjusted for good image quality, etc.

Your best bet is to view one at a decent display in-store and decide for yourself.

One nice thing about the Samsung in particular is that not only is it attractive design (and your TV is a focal point in the room, so IMO this matters), but there is a very inexpensive aluminum hockey puck mount for it I believe on monoprice.com for around $15 that is insanely thin. It just mounts one in a wall, one in a drywall (no problem since its so light) with a metal wire connecting the two and it hangs literally just like a picture frame. It looks just like this, but cheap: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-WMN1000B-Low-Profile-40-Inch-Displays/dp/B001VIMEN6
 
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NCX said:
If it is half your budget, spend more and get the Panasonic VT20/25 (2000$) which is currently the best TV avaliable.

If it has to be thin the Samsung C750 series or Plasma C8000 series will do. The problem is the high input lag (41ms in game mode) on the Samsung C750 (and most high end LCD's), going to have to do some research to find out the lag on the Samsung plasmas.
Click to expand...

Well first off im not like needing a Plasma i was just curious about them. Thanks for the advice on the "best tv out". I'll check it out. As for ms on high end LCD's and stuff...im not sure what you mean persay. I have a pretty medium end 32inch Vizio HDTV and i notice no lag at all when playing video games, and there is no "game mode" as far as i know. I would think if any TV would have lag it would be a $600 Vizio...

tangoseal said:
I have my HTPC listed in my sig hooked up to my PC-50VT25 by Panasonic.

A-Freaking-Mazing TV. If you have a cheap plasma from 5 years ago of course its horrible to game on. And plasmas are not made to sit 20 inches in front of a 50 inch screen. They are made for about 3-5 feet away minimum.
Click to expand...
Im not sure if you are saying the second paragraph of your response to me, but i am sitting i would guess 6 feet away, and thats the few inches matters on the thickness of the TV i get. A slim wallmount with a slim TV will be so against the wall that i will be fine. But a wallmount (2-3inches) then the Vizio 55" (3inches) then add some tilting and it would be way to close.

Ducman69 said:
One of the lower models is fine as well, if budget is a concern. I am very happy w/ my 6000 w/ at the time I believe was $1400.

For one, you have to look out for the video-philes, as they will pay extremely close attention to little niggles the average consumer would not notice and would likely have to be informed to look for, and be completely indifferent to inconveniences, physical appearance, etc. I have one such friend that insists his gigantic ugly HD CRT is the best display ever made. Some of the complaints are also easily addressed in the TV menu. The auto-dimming power saving feature can be minimized or disabled, black levels and brightness/contrast adjusted for good image quality, etc.

Your best bet is to view one at a decent display in-store and decide for yourself.

One nice thing about the Samsung in particular is that not only is it attractive design (and your TV is a focal point in the room, so IMO this matters), but there is a very inexpensive aluminum hockey puck mount for it I believe on monoprice.com for around $15 that is insanely thin. It just mounts one in a wall, one in a drywall (no problem since its so light) with a metal wire connecting the two and it hangs literally just like a picture frame. It looks just like this, but cheap: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-WMN1000B-Low-Profile-40-Inch-Displays/dp/B001VIMEN6
Click to expand...

I couldnt agree more with everything you are saying. I didnt fully think about how true that is, the video philes. That mounting option (puck) is so insanely cool, but im not sure if i could use it, as i am thinking most likely the TV i will mount will need to be tilted a bit downward. But maybe not.
Yeah i have this thing, which im sure all of us [H]ard guys have, which is not liking buying technology of a old generation, or of the current gen but the new gen is coming out soon. And also i get fixated on features, wanting a 2011 gen HDTV, with 3D and 240-480Hz and all that jazz...when in reality i know i will use the 3D only once and who knows if il mess with the Hz on the TV.

Samsung 6400 (UN55C6400) is at Costco (so double warranty) for $1499. Which seems like a great deal. Only negatives would be 120Hz which is last gen, no 3D, and wifi needs lipstick adapter (sold separately). (It also does not list how many ms it is)

The difficult trade off is like the Vizio i mentioned, Vizio's are getting high and higher reviews, sometimes the best or second best reviews by Cnet and others. And that 55inch, 3D, etc etc HDTV, on sale is $200 more, what you trade off though is looks and slim design, the ladder's importance being mentioned earlier.
 
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NathanP2007 said:
As for ms on high end LCD's and stuff...im not sure what you mean persay. I have a pretty medium end 32inch Vizio HDTV and i notice no lag at all when playing video games, and there is no "game mode" as far as i know. I would think if any TV would have lag it would be a $600 Vizio...
Click to expand...
You would think so, but thats actually not the case.

Most of the lag in TV sets is created by the image and motion enhancement features available in higher end LCDs. A cheap LCD may be 60hz only, so for starters there is no lag introduced in 120/240hz upconversion.

These enhancements produce great looking pictures for movies (native 24p looks jerky IMO), but add a delay in drawing the picture that can be noticeable when gaming.

Gaming mode bypasses this additional circuitry, but some are still laggier than others.
 
Ducman69 said:
You would think so, but thats actually not the case.

Most of the lag in TV sets is created by the image and motion enhancement features available in higher end LCDs. A cheap LCD may be 60hz only, so for starters there is no lag introduced in 120/240hz upconversion.

These enhancements produce great looking pictures for movies (native 24p looks jerky IMO), but add a delay in drawing the picture that can be noticeable when gaming.

Gaming mode bypasses this additional circuitry, but some are still laggier than others.
Click to expand...

Super interesting thank you. Yeah my TV is a 60hz. I definitely need whatever TV i buy to be confirmed by a owner that gaming on it has no delay. How is your 6000 series in terms of delay when gaming and such? Does its "Game Mode" work correctly?
 
I game on a pioneer plasma and I have no problems at all. mostly consoles though.
 
You'd need to google and see if someone measured it. I haven't noticed any lag w/ game mode, but I don't play shooters on the computer or PS3 to be able to notice. The closest really time sensitive game is guitar hero, but it didn't throw anyone off. We're talking about tenths of a second though.
 
Gaming on Plasma is awesome from my experience, I bought a Pioneer Kuro back in 2007 and ive been gaming heavily on it since (ps3 / wii / 360) Also have PC hooked up to it as a secondary monitor for movies & games.

Nice smooth motion, awesome black levels and input lag isnt an issue. Never had any problems with IR or burn in.
 
Ducman69 said:
You'd need to google and see if someone measured it. I haven't noticed any lag w/ game mode, but I don't play shooters on the computer or PS3 to be able to notice. The closest really time sensitive game is guitar hero, but it didn't throw anyone off. We're talking about tenths of a second though.
Click to expand...

Well i didnt find any good websites with a review or anything, but i did see a snip-it on google of someone saying they game on it with their PS3 and theres no lag at all for them. Idk i think i am gonna give it a shot. Samsung Series 6000 (6400) LED LCD.

Now is the question of, is this a great price http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc..._Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&topnav=

Or is it just alright, and 7000 series with 3D will get to that price in a few months?
Another question, are essentially all the 6000 series (and each series for that matter) the same technology but just tweaked better and better as you go up the models? Like is there a big difference in quality between the 6400 and the 6900?
 
It is clear you are still looking for the biggest and cheapest panel with no regards to quality!

Flat Panels HD Reivew. The backlight bleeding is awful, can't find any thing on input lag, typically the mid range Samsung LCD's are basically unplayable these days. The 6000 series also suffers from panel lottery, meaning you get various panels with different levels of performance.

Here I found this. 52" Sharp LE820. UK version Review, 1300$ on Amazon. Another Review of the 820E version, Flat Panels HD's test model has far less back light bleed compared to the Samsung.

The US version has the same amount of input lag. This will be perfect for gaming.
 
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NCX said:
It is clear you are still looking for the biggest and cheapest panel with no regards to quality!

Flat Panels HD Reivew. The backlight bleeding is awful, can't find any thing on input lag, typically the mid range Samsung LCD's are basically unplayable these days. The 6000 series also suffers from panel lottery, meaning you get various panels with different levels of performance.

Here I found this. 52" Sharp LE820. UK version Review, 1300$ on Amazon. Another Review of the 820E version, Flat Panels HD's test model has far less back light bleed compared to the Samsung.

The US version has the same amount of input lag. This will be perfect for gaming.
Click to expand...

Man, lower the TV snobbyness. Im just looking at TV's, and im looking at a specific store cause they are a amazing store that also extends all warranties by double. I read both reviews, first off you are waaaay over dramatic in regards to the Samsung 6000. The conclusion clearly states its a decent TV, theres some issues with the fact some are good and others arent of the same model, so they need better quality control.
As for the other TV, yes it seemed to get really good review. However buying from Amazon, and not direct amazon but some company, and no where on the page does it talk about its warranty or what you do if something goes wrong...those are things that make it iffy at best. Yeah its a great tv, but i wouldnt buy one out of the back of some shady dudes windowless van...in a trusted store..yeah.
 
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NCX said:
It is clear you are still looking for the biggest and cheapest panel with no regards to quality!
Click to expand...
I am a little confused, you are comparing the Samsung to a cheaper LG panel.
NCX said:
can't find any thing on input lag, typically the mid range Samsung LCD's are basically unplayable these days
Click to expand...
I have no experience with the model, but the review you linked to says:
Review said:
Gaming on C6000 is good and the much better response time also makes it more suited for console gaming than the B7000 from 2009.
Click to expand...
NCX said:
The backlight bleeding is awful. The 6000 series also suffers from panel lottery, meaning you get various panels with different levels of performance.
Click to expand...
I know on the older ones the bleed can be affected by black tone and black level settings, and some were worse than others, if thats what you mean by lottery. I have no seriously noticeable clouding on mine, and assume the new ones would be better. *shrugs*

Definitely worth checking out a bunch of different models, as tech changes so often. :) One concern though about the LG from the review you linked:
review said:
For the last couple of years, Sharp has been producing LCD televisions that are sometimes decent, if unremarkable. The company is aggressively pushing &#8220;Quattron&#8221; technology, seemingly in an attempt to give it the edge against the scores of incredibly similar LCD HDTVs on the market.

The unfortunate truth is that widened colour gamuts have almost no real-world use in consumer TVs. Playing back content designed to be viewed with one colour gamut (HDTV Rec.709) on another colour gamut (Sharp&#8217;s own proprietary &#8220;Quattron&#8221; gamut) does not enhance the picture quality &#8211; in fact, it does quite the opposite.

Of course, none of this would matter if the Sharp LC46LE821E could still be set up to put out high quality, accurate pictures. What is most surprising about the LC46LE821E is that it has difficulty in living up to some of the claims that Sharp has made of it. While their promotional material promises that &#8220;a Quattron will provide smoother colour gradations&#8221; [1] and even makes mention of &#8220;bright greens&#8221; [2], in-depth testing reveals the exact opposite situation: green is one of the colours with luminance deficiency even after calibration attempts, and highly saturated content can often produce terrible contours in the image.
Click to expand...
Oh well, if it were perfection, it would likely be more expensive. So its all likely a compromise between cost, features, and compactness. From my experience, those are both good brands. at least. :)
 
FPHD was talking about the over drive trailing on the C6x00 compared to last years B7000, not the input lag. Most of the things I came up with regarding the input lag is that it was bad, nothing 100% concrete though, and if you look at the other Samsung models they typically have a ton of lag. Not worth putting a lot of time into research when there are plenty of other better tested models with information on them.

Input lag is a non issue on the Sharp and there are many trusted sources to confirm this, I'm sure there are plenty of other places selling them.

Panel lottery means some of the C6x00 may be S-PVA, A-MVA and made by AU Optronics, Samsung or Chemei. Samsungs own S-PVA panels are always the best, but there is no gaurentee you will actually be getting one.

Sony/Toshiba low-mid range models also suffer from the panel lottery, LG does as well but also throw in their IPS panels into the mix.

Quattron tech is definately a gimmick, they were initially very expensive at launch. The green push mentioned in the review is only going to be something the most harcore users will notice. Thankfully we have Review sites and the AVS forums where one can obtain quite accurate settings for their TV if the presets aren't satisfactory.

OP you really should consider spending a bit more (VT20/25) if gaming is super important and you plan on playing online, and the Sharp isn't avalible from what you think is a good place to buy it. Being at a permenant disadvantage at all times because of TV input lag isn't going to yield fun gaming sessions.
 
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I will say overall...i have a 32inch Vizio, and i am very very satisfied with everything. How it does gaming, how it does HD, bluray, everything. So that should say something to my eye when looking at a HDTV...your not really very picky if your $600 vizio 32" satisfies you completely. lol.

I am fine waiting until something is in my range and is of higher quality. Because your right, ut-most importance is it not having Lag when gaming. Second is deffinitly it being thin (to wall mount). And third i would say is where i buy it. I cant pass up buying a TV from Costco...they double your warranty and are insanely awesome with customer service (returns, refunds, replacement, repair etc). I guess i will have to wait until something in my price range comes into stock that has high marks. But like mentioned earlier, i am not a Video-Phile...i will not scrutinize my TV like a professional reviewing site does. I want it to have a long life, have great picture quality, and no gaming lag...thats bout it.
 
Eureka!
http://72.9.159.100/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=18866823&postcount=106

To put that into perspective, a frame of lag is 16.6ms, so generally speaking most agree:
0-16ms = excellent
16ms-33ms = good
33ms-50ms = ok
50ms-66ms = poor
66ms+ = unacceptable

Definitely better shooter gaming panels as NCX says, but 47ms on the Sammy isn't a total deal breaker either. It does show that gaming modes do often make a HUGE difference.
NCX said:
Panel lottery means some of the C6x00 may be S-PVA, A-MVA and made by AU Optronics, Samsung or Chemei. Samsungs own S-PVA panels are always the best, but there is no gaurentee you will actually be getting one.
Click to expand...
Mine's not a C model, I'll google that and check what I have out of curiosity. :)
 
BTW this may help as well:

PLASMA vs LCD for GAMING - http://www.lcdtv.net/guide/what-you-should-look-gaming-tv

The only thing they don't mention though is their suggestion of avoiding burn-in by not "displaying the same static graphic elements for prolonged periods of time" is not possible if you play games with bright static HUDs, and at least Panasonic's pixel wobbler which merely shifts the image 1-2 pixels only blurs this burned image, it doesn't eliminate it, and the Panasonic set does not see Civilization as a static image for example, so the screen saver won't ever activate like it would pausing a movie... ditto on the desktop, where I noticed I had to stop constantly maximizing windows, as the bar at the top was starting to age different. I always felt a bit paranoid, but didn't like turning it off and on since it was so slow to respond, so I finally upgraded from my plasma for peace of mind.

They also don't mention that edge-lit LED TVs are usually considerably lighter and thinner than plasmas. Due to the centering of the room and my wall studs, mounting my Panasonic would have required a beefier mount and possibly a spanner. Without the stand the LCD was less than 50lbs and the plasma was around twice that IIRC. We were shocked when moving it!
 
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Ducman69 said:
Eureka!
http://72.9.159.100/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=18866823&postcount=106

To put that into perspective, a frame of lag is 16.6ms, so generally speaking most agree:
0-16ms = excellent
16ms-33ms = good
33ms-50ms = ok
50ms-66ms = poor
66ms+ = unacceptable

Definitely better shooter gaming panels as NCX says, but 47ms on the Sammy isn't a total deal breaker either. It does show that gaming modes do often make a HUGE difference.

Mine's not a C model, I'll google that and check what I have out of curiosity. :)
Click to expand...


Now iv never seen ms used in that way. I always see ms like....4ms or 5ms. Interesting.

Ducman69 said:
BTW this may help as well:

PLASMA vs LCD for GAMING - http://www.lcdtv.net/guide/what-you-should-look-gaming-tv

The only thing they don't mention though is their suggestion of avoiding burn-in by not "displaying the same static graphic elements for prolonged periods of time" is not possible if you play games with bright static HUDs, and at least Panasonic's pixel wobbler which merely shifts the image 1-2 pixels only blurs this burned image, it doesn't eliminate it, and the Panasonic set does not see Civilization as a static image for example, so the screen saver won't ever activate like it would pausing a movie... ditto on the desktop, where I noticed I had to stop constantly maximizing windows, as the bar at the top was starting to age different. I always felt a bit paranoid, but didn't like turning it off and on since it was so slow to respond, so I finally upgraded from my plasma for peace of mind.

They also don't mention that edge-lit LED TVs are usually considerably lighter and thinner than plasmas. Due to the centering of the room and my wall studs, mounting my Panasonic would have required a beefier mount and possibly a spanner. Without the stand the LCD was less than 50lbs and the plasma was around twice that IIRC. We were shocked when moving it!
Click to expand...

Yeah that all makes sense.
 
33ms (2FPS) is considered the borderline of tolerability for gamers when it comes to input lag. Personally I feel greatly affected with that amount during games.

the 4-5ms is refering to response time. Input lag is the delays between your console/connected device and the TV.

With the C6400 you will be 3 fps behind at all times, when you go on line add your network latency as well.
 
NCX said:
33ms (2FPS) is considered the borderline of tolerability for gamers when it comes to input lag. Personally I feel greatly affected with that amount during games.

the 4-5ms is refering to response time. Input lag is the delays between your console/connected device and the TV.

With the C6400 you will be 3 fps behind at all times, when you go on line add your network latency as well.
Click to expand...

Very interesting. Not that im stuck on samsung, just curious but What about series 7000 or 8000 or 9000? As the LED TV's are better and better made and more expensive, is the input lag less and less or similar?
 
Op, I've been using my plasma display for gaming on my 360 and PS3 for the past 7 months (give or take) and so far, I wouldn't change a thing.

The contrast has been outstanding... the black levels are great and the colors vibrant. My only complaint is image rentention. It's something that you always have to be aware of if you don't want a broken TV.

With that said, it's not a very big deal... you just have to be aware of it and try not to leave static images on screen for extended periods of time. I've found game HUDs aren't much of an issue. Even when playing for hours. The biggest issue seems to be news tickers and station logos
 
Hey - this thread looks about like what I was looking for - similar questions to OP - would appreciate any input.

I'm looking for a new HTPC display soon as well (want ~50", 1080P, don't really care about 3D, but need good response-times for gaming), and I'm considering Plasma for the better price/performance ratio, better colors, better darks, better viewing angle etc. This will be mostly for gaming (action games/shooters, not a lot of RTS etc) and movies. I'm aware of the burn-in process on Plasmas, so I figure I'll run a lot of bright colorful screen-savers on the pc for several hours a day for a few weeks to make sure I get it burned in correctly before I start playing any games with strong HUD elements.

Anyhow - I'm hoping to get a display in the 50" range for fairly cheap - around $700-800 was my original goal, but looks like it will be a little more now. This Samsung model is my top pic so far - looks like I can get it for ~$850 locally. What are your thoughts on this one? If anyone has better suggestions in the <$1000 range, let me know. Thx!

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/PN50C550G1FXZA-features
 
madFive said:
Hey - this thread looks about like what I was looking for - similar questions to OP - would appreciate any input.

I'm looking for a new HTPC display soon as well (want ~50", 1080P, don't really care about 3D, but need good response-times for gaming), and I'm considering Plasma for the better price/performance ratio, better colors, better darks, better viewing angle etc. This will be mostly for gaming (action games/shooters, not a lot of RTS etc) and movies. I'm aware of the burn-in process on Plasmas, so I figure I'll run a lot of bright colorful screen-savers on the pc for several hours a day for a few weeks to make sure I get it burned in correctly before I start playing any games with strong HUD elements.

Anyhow - I'm hoping to get a display in the 50" range for fairly cheap - around $700-800 was my original goal, but looks like it will be a little more now. This Samsung model is my top pic so far - looks like I can get it for ~$850 locally. What are your thoughts on this one? If anyone has better suggestions in the <$1000 range, let me know. Thx!

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/PN50C550G1FXZA-features
Click to expand...

heh, I believe thats the exact same model that I have (55" though). I can tell you flat out that you wont be disappointed :) It's an outstanding TV

just make sure that you keep the brightness and cell light turned down for a while until you break it in.
 
NCX said:
Ducman dug up the big input lag list OP, I suggest you look at it

http://72.9.159.100/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=18866823&postcount=106
Click to expand...

Wow looks like the input lag just keeps getting higher and higher as you go up the series, however it looks like C7000 is the best (and a 55inch) with 33ms. Which i believe is this model http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung...218173780094&skuId=9783533&st=c7000&cp=1&lp=1 however, its over budget and like i have said, i am no rush.

And reviews (from buyers) on amazon and such arent very consistent on the quality of the picture and issues with the 7000 samsung.
 
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NO LED LCD beats the Pioneer Kuro or Panasonic VT25
nuff said
Gamming and fast pace movies i.e. Matrix , transformers, and also sports broadcasts are way more supeior than any LCD out there. oh did i mention black levels and color reproduction.

if you are afraid of burn in , get a 30 inch monitor i.e. NEC with a spectraview calibrator.

Unless you have 2k dollars to get a LED HP monitor i cant remember the model number but its the only true CRT replacement.

outta here
 
And listed response time by manufacturers is usually BS to boot, but that one we usually look at more for ghosting issue (fast moving crap on the screen). In fact, even these websites measured input lag has to be taken with a grain of salt. If you have just one site measuring one LCD against another on the same test rig, its 100% accurate. If you have two different sites measuring, there's no real way to know how much lag is introduced from mirroring and comparison to the CRT etc. Still better than nothing though, and gives you a close idea. :)
NCX said:
33ms (2FPS) is considered the borderline of tolerability for gamers when it comes to input lag. Personally I feel greatly affected with that amount during games.
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Ehhhh, I have to disagree there. In and of itself, such as on FPS single/LAN games or console gaming like virtua fighter, 2 frames should not be noticeable w/ is why I put it under good. Its only an issue IMO when you start adding in other factors, especially network/server latency for online gaming (w/ is usually greater). Add response time, monitor input, network, and server lag, and sure.
 
Well, though the VT25 (TC-P54VT25) seems to be widely loved by the videophilles, and great for gaming and all that great stuff, however deffinitely a negative is its depth, almost 4 inches which when wallmounting and i am already on the minimum distance from a 55inch mark...then the price is a bit over budget. So i'll have to keep my eye on the HDTV world to see if the next "best LED LCD Tv" will be what i want (slim, great quality, low input lag, in price range)

Scratch that, just realized the VT25 is a plasma...hmmm. Still a great TV but if i had a choice i would choose a LED LCD with good-to-great picture quality and good Input lag over a Plasma. That stupid lingering burn is annoying to think about buying and making sure doesnt happen.
 
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NathanP2007 said:
Well, though the VT25 (TC-P54VT25) seems to be widely loved by the videophilles, and great for gaming and all that great stuff, however deffinitely a negative is its depth, almost 4 inches which when wallmounting and i am already on the minimum distance from a 55inch mark...then the price is a bit over budget. So i'll have to keep my eye on the HDTV world to see if the next "best LED LCD Tv" will be what i want (slim, great quality, low input lag, in price range)

Scratch that, just realized the VT25 is a plasma...hmmm. Still a great TV but if i had a choice i would choose a LED LCD with good-to-great picture quality and good Input lag over a Plasma. That stupid lingering burn is annoying to think about buying and making sure doesnt happen.
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Wait for the 2011 Panasonic plasmas. I saw them at CES and they are super thin and put out almost no heat. I was shocked when I put my hand in front of the VT30 and GT30 that had been on all day and literally felt nothing. My friend with an LCD actually said it was cooler than his LCD (goes without saying that it is much cooler than my Elite Kuro :) ).

BTW, the heat and physical characteristics of plasmas are non-issues for me given that they are superior to LCD in every single way. Picture quality is all I care about, and compared to LCDs there really is no comparison. If they were heavier and hotter than they are now, I'd still get one. Given that the 2011 Panasonics are thinner, lighter, put out almost no heat, and are this close to the image quality of the Elite Kuros (RIP), I say wait for them to come out in a month or two. Don't waste your money on an LED backlit LCD.
 
NathanP2007 said:
Wow looks like the input lag just keeps getting higher and higher as you go up the series, however it looks like C7000 is the best (and a 55inch) with 33ms. Which i believe is this model http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung...218173780094&skuId=9783533&st=c7000&cp=1&lp=1 however, its over budget and like i have said, i am no rush.

And reviews (from buyers) on amazon and such arent very consistent on the quality of the picture and issues with the 7000 samsung.
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That's because as you go up the line, more and more features (aka band-aids) are piled on to correct for the inherent deficiencies of LCD technology. The inherent flaw of LCD is that it is a giant backlight over filters, as opposed to CRT and plasma where the pixels are discreetly activated from one another. This is why CRT/plasma has better blacks, more accurate color, better movement, less input lag, and superior viewing angles than LCD.

All of the features added to LCD are again band-aids to correct for the limitations of "backlight through filters" technology. Local dimming improves black levels but reinterprets low level scenes (shadow detail, starfields, etc) and introduces haloing. 120hz/240hz improves motion artifacts but it also introduces input lag. Nothing can completely fix viewing angle artifacts from LCD's "screendoor effect". On top of that, all of these things add additional cost to the set, all in the name of trying to get to the picture quality level of a plasma that costs less.

Be aware of falling for marketing buzzwords when they advertise for LCDs. Again, technological band-aids that don't 100% fix the problems, and they add cost. :)
 
Serpico said:
That's because as you go up the line, more and more features (aka band-aids) are piled on to correct for the inherent deficiencies of LCD technology. The inherent flaw of LCD is that it is a giant backlight over filters, as opposed to CRT and plasma where the pixels are discreetly activated from one another. This is why CRT/plasma has better blacks, more accurate color, better movement, less input lag, and superior viewing angles than LCD.

All of the features added to LCD are again band-aids to correct for the limitations of "backlight through filters" technology. Local dimming improves black levels but reinterprets low level scenes (shadow detail, starfields, etc) and introduces haloing. 120hz/240hz improves motion artifacts but it also introduces input lag. Nothing can completely fix viewing angle artifacts from LCD's "screendoor effect". On top of that, all of these things add additional cost to the set, all in the name of trying to get to the picture quality level of a plasma that costs less.

Be aware of falling for marketing buzzwords when they advertise for LCDs. Again, technological band-aids that don't 100% fix the problems, and they add cost. :)
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Sorry, but this is VERY one sided.

Many manufacturers have reduced plasma production, abandoning all small plasmas, and some have abandoned plasma production all together, and this is not because its superior technology at a lower price... that makes no sense, and if the case we'd see LCD production being reduced rather than the other way around.

Plasma and LCD have some inherent advantages and disadvantages, but of course there are crappy and great examples of both.

Viewing angles, contrast, and motion have traditionally been superior on plasma screens to earlier LCD panels. 120hz/240hz LCD sets have eliminated the motion benefit, and LED back-lighting w/ local dimming has also removed the contrast benefit (w/ many exceeding plasma capabilities thanks to equal blacks but brighter whites). It is true though that the former image processing adds lag.

The downsides to plasma generally include increased screen glare and weight mainly due to requirement of glass screens, cost of high DPI (the reason small high resolution plasmas generally just aren't even made), reduced brightness making them less ideal in bright rooms when combined w/ more glare-prone glass, increased depth, increased power use, and susceptibility to damage for static bright elements on the screen (not a problem w/ TV or movies thanks to advances in technology, but can be an issue for PC use).
 
Gaming on my Kuro 60" Plasma is just amazing.
I have a Dell u3011 but nothing, NOTHING, gets close to a Kuro for watching a movie and gaming.
 
Serpico said:
Wait for the 2011 Panasonic plasmas. I saw them at CES and they are super thin and put out almost no heat. I was shocked when I put my hand in front of the VT30 and GT30 that had been on all day and literally felt nothing. My friend with an LCD actually said it was cooler than his LCD (goes without saying that it is much cooler than my Elite Kuro :) ).

BTW, the heat and physical characteristics of plasmas are non-issues for me given that they are superior to LCD in every single way. Picture quality is all I care about, and compared to LCDs there really is no comparison. If they were heavier and hotter than they are now, I'd still get one. Given that the 2011 Panasonics are thinner, lighter, put out almost no heat, and are this close to the image quality of the Elite Kuros (RIP), I say wait for them to come out in a month or two. Don't waste your money on an LED backlit LCD.
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This is really good news. Ill deffinitely wait for those. It sure sucks plasma has the flaw of burn in or else I really think with ones u described now they would dominate hdtv market. As for them having more glare in bright room and all that, my room is fairy dark so I'm not worry, and yeah i use pc with my hdtv but I could just have screen saver turn on after few minutes, and typically I websurf, play games then turn it off. Never really just leaving it running with the hdtv on.
 
Serpico said:
Plasmas >>> LCD in every respect, input lag and gaming included
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+1

I use my Panasonic TCP50 G10 as a monitor all the time and I never EVER have burn-in. Pixel-shifting really does what it is intended to do. Sometimes after turning off the screen you will see a ghost image of what was displayed just before shutoff but that goes away in a few seconds after you shut it off, or when you turn it back on.

For gaming, you cant beat the refresh rate and contrast of a Plasma. Period.

I also dont find the regional dynamic dimming methods the LCD's use to boost their contrast ratio to appeal to my eyes. I can definitely notice when one region of the screen tries to brighten itself and another to dim itself to "improve" the contrast and it makes for a very artificial look.
Maybe the 2011 models will prove otherwise.
 
Jerkson said:
I use my Panasonic TCP50 G10 as a monitor all the time and I never EVER have burn-in. Pixel-shifting really does what it is intended to do.
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Not even temporary burn in that you had to run other video over to get rid of?

I have pixel shifting too, but it barely moves the image, and just blurs the burn.

Don't get me wrong, I was able to address it, but I used a special program where you take a screenshot of your desktop or game that caused burn, and the program creates an inverse image where everything that was dark is light and visa versa. You let that burn onto the screen, and it cancels out the uneven wear. But to not see anything? Hmmm...

How many hours a day do you use your computer on your plasma, and was it just part-time computer use? Do you minimize or move your start menu around, shift your wallpaper or use a very dark one, and do you avoid always maximizing windows?

Mine's (well now my parents) is a 2008 model though IIRC, so that is three years old now. Perhaps that makes all the difference, but I had similar results to this guy:
I can tell you this from my first hand experience with plasma tv's. I own a Samsung 42" plasma, which is the second plasma that i've owned (my first being a panasonic).

Anyhow, I'm not a big gamer, BUT I watch a decent amount of sports, notably, the Yanks practically every night. I've had the Samsung less than 1 year, and have been watching baseball on it ONLY this season (3 months). I've started to notice a ghosting where they run the score along the top of the screen already! It hasn't gotten to the point where I can see it while watching other shows, but you can definitely see it there when that area of the screen is a very light color. I've tried some of the tv's features, like the white screen, and scrolling white/black that is supposed to take it away, to no avail. I also use the pixel shift feature in hopes of avoiding it. It's not going away. I'm actually going to have to buy an LCD in order to watch sports games on, because if I wait much longer, I will have a permenant score line on my screen.

Game systems are MUCH worse, as i've got a friend who ruined his plasma playing Madden football (you could see the yard lines on his set at all times).
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And then there are suggestions from even dedicated plasma sites like this:
http://www.thebestplasmatv.com/guides/plasma-tv-burn-in/
Computer Use:
Plasma TVs should not be used exclusively as computer monitors. No matter how great a plasma TV is at resisting burn-in, if you use it mostly as a computer monitor you will get permanent burn-in. This happens because it will always display the same thing in certain areas (like the taskbar of your operatig system). Another reason why using it as a computer monitor is bad has to do with the fact that windows have white backgrounds, wearing up the pixels at maximum speed compared to other areas like the titlebars, taskbar, menubars, etc.
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