Logitech Z-2300 : The Last of the Titans

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RishiGuru

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PART-I



INTRODUCTION

Logitech Z-2300
When Logitech introduced the Z-2300 way back in 2004, it was a THX certified premium quality top of the range product. The Logitech engineers in the lab where given a clear goal i.e. to create the best 2.1 multimedia speaker system for the computers. They were not concerned about the price, they were more concerned about the performance & quality which lead in using premium quality components, be it electronic components, speakers used, wooden casings of the subwoofers, plastic casings of the satellites and even the wires used to connect the components. Price was never an issue, performance was. This single mindedness of the engineers produced a unique product, and Z-2300 was born.

If you consider that way back in the year 2000 when Logitech was known as a cheap speaker manufacturer and could not even meet the standards of Altec Lancing let alone Klipsch computer audio products, they made a huge effort back then in order to make a big step forward and used better quality components for their THX certified audio system lineup than they have ever done before thus increasing cost. My "Price was never an issue, performance was" statement is in context of my above view. Today when we compare the Z-2300 from an el chepo manufacturer Logitech with the HiFi maker company like Klipsch producing Promedia 2.1 as a computer multimedia speaker system, you find both of them being in the same segment going head to head in terms of audio performance and in many occasions Z-2300 coming out as a clear winner. Atleast we have to give credit to Logitech that that could produce a multimedia speaker system that can meet the standards of a Klipsch product. I give full marks to Logitech only for this effort.



Logitech Z-623


Logitech introduced Z-623 in 2010 six years after Z-2300 reign. Actually I cannot recall of a 2.1 PC speaker that remained at the top of the performance charts for straight six years. They had to make the successor not because Z-2300 was getting old and becoming incompetent, believe me it is still is the king, but because the rival manufactures like Altec Lansing, Edifier, Creative, Sony etc are producing cheaper sets of same wattage and same configuration and labeling them as their premium product. Also 2.1 speakers sets are no more the cash cows of audio manufactures, rather these companies makes a lot of profit from selling the 5.1 & 7.1 speakers sets.

Z-2300 Specifications

Audio Quality Certification: THX certified
Total RMS Power: 200W [FTC Rated Power]
System THD: Better than 0.05% before clipping
Total Peak Power(RMS): 400W < 10% THD
Power distribution: 120 W (Subwoofer) + 2 X 40 W (Satellites)
Subwoofer: 120 W @ 8 ohms @ 10% THD @ 100Hz
Subwoofer Size (inch): 8
Subwoofer Type: Long throw
Satellites: 80 W (2 X 40 W) @ 8 ohms @ 10% THD @ 1kHz
Satellite Size (inch): 2.5
Satellite Type: Polished aluminum phase plug driver
Frequency response: 35 Hz - 20 kHz
Signal to noise ratio(SNR): @ 1kHz > 100dB
Sound Pressure Level (SPL): 117db
Subwoofer dimensions(HWD): 11" X 11" X 15"
Satellite dimensions(HWD): 6.75" X 3.5" X 6"
Total weight : 15 Kg

UNPACKING

The satellites & Control Pod neatly packaged in the box




SUBWOOFER



The subwoofer is huge, in every sense of the word. The behemoth measures 11&#8221; (H) X 11&#8221; (W) X 15&#8221; (D), and its output could rattle the paint off your walls.

To give a comparison of how big the subwoofer is, look at the picture below where the Z-2300 sub is kept aside Altec Lansing VS2421.



Subwoofer made of thick MDF


The wall of the sub is made of 16 mm thick medium density fiberboard (MDF) which is quite impressive. It has been further strengthened with internal clamps in the joints. This adds tremendous strength to the box in order to withstand the slamming, heavy duty sound waves produced by the bass driver. The subwoofer weighs 12 kilograms and is a back breaker for sure.

Actually, this subwoofer was designed for Z-560 way back in the year 2000. Z-560 was the first THX certified multimedia speaker system from Logitech and was a big gamble at that time. Nobody was quite sure how the market will react in accepting a high end computer speaker from this unknown brand. But it seems that the gamble finally paid off and ever since this Holy Grail subwoofer have been used in their THX certified speaker systems line up for the past decade as below:
Z-560 [first THX certified 4.1 system, launched in the year 2000]
Z-680 [first THX certified 5.1 system, launched in the year 2002]
Z-2200 [first THX certified 2.1 system, launched in the year 2003]
Z-2300 [second THX certified 2.1 system, with minor updations on Z-2200 launched in the year 2004]

Z-2300 Bass Driver


Z-2300 subwoofer has a front facing massive 8 inch long throw bass driver. It has a Rated Power Input of 80W and maximum power input capability of 160W.

This history of 8 inch bass drivers began when Logitech choose Tang Band as the OEM manufacturer for their first THX certified multimedia speaker system Z-560 way back in the year 2000. It used direct off the shelf 8 inch Tang Band W8-670C with rated power input of 80W, maximum power input capability of 150W having a max excursion capability of 7mm. I guess at the time of release, Logitech was entering a new domain in computer audio, changing their image from relatively ordinary PC speaker manufacturer to a high end computer speaker manufacturer, and was themselves not quite sure about how many units of Z-560&#8217;s they will be able to sell.

There is a department in Logitech that exclusively deals with audio products and are better known as Logitech Sound Central. The link to the website is provided here: Logitech Sound Central

They state: &#8220;We don&#8217;t simply buy parts off the shelf. We laser tune different types of drivers. We modify the shapes, experiment with materials, and use digital components to improve sound quality. Our goal is to deliver fidelity as close to the original sound as possible.&#8221;

Logitech Sound Central testing the bass driver of Z-5500


When Z-560 successor, Z-680 was launched in the year 2002, they shifted to an unknown speaker manufacturer which builds speakers in accordance to Logitech specifications.

I personally own a Z-560 & Z-2300. After minutely inspecting both the drivers of Z-560 & Z-2300, I found out

1) Both have same magnet size & weight thus having identical rated power handling capabilities.

2) Z-2300 bass driver have more excursion capability that that Z-560 ones, maybe 10mm [estimated] where Z-560 ones have only 7mm. This is evident since Z-2300 ones have slightly longer & elongated stamped steel basket section between the spider & the magnet compared to Z-560 ones, providing the space for more excursions capability.

3) The cooling efficiency of the Z-2300 bass driver with its bigger vented pole piece is significantly higher than Z-560 ones.

The bass driver of Z-2300 with even higher excursion capability than Z-560 ones will definitely offer better sensitivity & accuracy not to mention the ability to handle more power over its rated input power with better cooling efficiency.Later I found out that Z-2300, Z-2200 & Z-680 all used this new driver.

Look below at the increase of the hole diameter of the vented pole piece:

Tang Band Z-560 subwoofer with smaller vented pole piece


Z-680 aka Z-2200 aka Z-2300 subwoofer with bigger vented pole piece


Z-2300 Bass Driver












Comparing Z-2300's aka Z-680 monstrous 8 inch bass driver on the left with the Onkyo's 8 inch bass driver on the right.



Note: Normally people confuse this bass driver as used in Z-680, Z-2200 & Z-2300 with the Tang Band W8-670Q model. Though both units look near identical, Z-2300&#8217;s bass driver is different from the W8-670Q in the rear section. It became absolutely certain when my friend&#8217;s Z-2300 bass driver went dead and I have to personally contact TangBand via email to ask the model of the driver used in Z-2300 & its price. I also send them the above pictures of the driver to help them identify. To my surprise, they replied after inspecting the pictures sent to them, that this bass driver do not belong to them or in any way represent one of their models. But they did agree that they supplied W8-670C drivers for Z-560. So, you see Z-680, Z-2200 & Z-2300 are not TangBands. Prior, I was also the victim of this case.

The subwoofer enclosure also houses a patented &#8220;U&#8221; shaped exponentially increasing bass reflex port to produce distortion free deep and rich bass experience. The enclosure is very deep, which is obviously good from an acoustical standpoint.

Z-2300 Satellites

Z-2300 uses 2.5 inch polished aluminum phase plug drivers in their satellites and are beautifully crafted to look like a piece of art. The 12W satellite drivers that Z-2300 uses are again from an unknown speaker company and does not in any way relate to 3 inch Tang Band (W3-594SB) units. I estimate a rated power of 10W & a max of 20W. But since these drivers get audio frequencies ranging from 150Hz to 20kHz, the power handling capability increases by at least two times. So these speakers can handle anything between 20W to 40W.

Satellite Drivers







With the polished aluminum phase plug drivers helping to reduce the path length differences about the cone surface, you get a smoothing and reinforcing the frequency response, particularly in terms of the highest frequencies the driver is capable of. There is some thermal dissipation one gives up by doing this, but the phase plug itself can serve as a heat sink for the voice coil and magnet pole.

CONTROL POD



The control pod of the Z-2300 is quite simple and minimalistic, which I prefer. No fancy lights just a big volume knob, a bass control, a 3.5 mm headphone jack, power LED and a power button. You can keep the control pod on your desk where ever you like and the controls are very convenient.

Here are some pictures of Z-2300 control pod innards



 
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PART-II

AMPLIFIER DETAILS

Audio design has always been a subject that stirs the passions of most electronics engineers and a subject where the pursuit of perfection has many times comes before considerations of cost. That aside sometimes the simplest circuits can offer the best solutions in terms of cost and performance. Z-2300 houses the amplifier in their subwoofer assembly.

Power Supply

The power supply of an audio amplifier is of vital importance, since it provides all the juice required by power amplifiers to drive the big speakers. An underperforming power supply will seriously limit the performance of an amplifier.

The power supply consist of:

i) A center tapped toroidal transformer manufactured by Ten Pao International. This transformer is rated at 150.9VA with +/- 20.1VAC secondary, 3.75A.

ii) A metal cased bridged rectifier to provide full-wave rectification from +/- 20.1 VAC to DC.

iii) A pair of CapXon 10,000 uF, 35V capacitors one for + 20.1 VDC and the another for &#8211; 20.1 VDC acting as ripple filters in order to smooth the DC output.

Toroidal Transformer Details

Manufacturer: Ten Pao International Ltd.
Part No: Z-2200 EU
Model No: TOG433028F0
VA Rating: 150.9 VA [Confirmed by Ten Pao]
Primary Input: AC 230V/50Hz
Secondary Output Voltage: AC 20.1V x 2
Secondary Output Current: 3.75 A
Diameter: 95 mm
Height: 45 mm





A toroidal transformer uses a doughnut shaped core & is much slimmer than a conventional (EI) transformer. It has numerous advantages over EI type such as low weight, low hum, low noise and also being smaller in size than an equivalent EI type. On the downside they are much more expensive than a conventional EI transformer. But it is worth the pay since you get better performance. A toroidal transformer has so many other performance advantages over EI type that it is hard to describe here other than to provide the performance ratio. Toroidal : Conventional(EI) :: 158 : 5 . It you want to know more in details go to the link below:
Bryston Transformers

The Bridge Rectifier


The Ripple Filter Capacitors



The transformer used here is rated to have an output of two times 20.1VAC when it has its rated load. So its resistance has already dropped the open circuit voltage and its peak will be 1.414 times higher which happens to be 28.4VAC. A single rectifier here drops it by 1VDC to 27.4VDC and smoothing the ripple by the power capacitors drops it by another 1.4VDC to 26VDC.

So, DC voltage supplied by the power supply is +/- 26 VDC, the current being 3.75 A.

Amplifier Chips

Z-2300 uses four Class-AB power amplifiers from STMicrolectronics. STMicrolectronic is a very renowned name in audio amplifier market.

The amplifiers used are:

i) A Japan Radio Corporation&#8217;s JRC-4565 operational amplifier. JRC-4565 is a dual op-amp which means it has two op-amps inside it to handle stereo channels.

ii) Two voltage regulators a 78M18 and a 79M18 supplying +/- 18 VDC respectively to feed JRC-4565 op-amp from the +/- 26.4 VDC power rail.

iii) One STMicroelectronics, Class-AB, 60W, TDA7296 power amplifier for each of the two satellites while the other two STMicroelectronics, Class-AB, 80W, TDA7295 are bridged together powering the subwoofer.

JRC-4565 operational amplifier



78M18 and 79M18 voltage regulators



Logitech Z-2300 Amplifier Innards













Reasons for using Class-AB Power Amplifiers

A quick look at many new low power speaker amplifiers on the market highlights the move to Class-D audio performance, but when it comes to low distortion and low noise and best sound quality, Class-AB still has the edge.

Class-AB architecture offers a signal to noise plus distortion ratio of up to 10 times better than its equivalent Class-D neighbour as well as providing a much simpler architecture which can be tweaked as required, without the need for reactive filter components on the output and the electromagnetic radiation resulting from an output stage switching at a few hundred kHz. Class-D amplification has inherent distortion in it and therefore is predominantly used in lower bandwidth amplification like in subwoofers. In other words it is quite impossible for a Class-D to achieve the level of linearity in frequency response produced by a Class-AB amplifier.

Ultimately it comes down to what you want, for efficiency and cost effectiveness Class-D are best, but if you are ready to sacrifice some efficiency & increase cost for the sake of sound quality then Class-AB are the best. In other words Class-A amps sound the best, cost the most, and are the least practical. They waste power and return very clean signals. Class-AB amps dominate the market and rival the best Class-A amps in sound quality. They use less power than Class-A, and can be cheaper, smaller, cooler, and lighter. Class-D amps are even smaller than Class-AB amps and more efficient, because they use high-speed switching rather than linear control.

The most important reason behind which multimedia speaker manufactures are switching from Class-AB to Class-D is to increase profit margin. Class-D is very cheap to produce and does not need require a big extruded aluminum heat sink or expensive toroidal transformers. They are basically switching power supplies but utilize pulse width modulation so as to be able to reproduce and amplify an alternating current. There are ok for subwoofers, but I honestly think that it is ridiculous to use a Class-D amplifier in a high end studio monitor.

In short, Class-D amps are more efficient but are only good for low frequencies applications like subwoofer amplification. Class-AB amps can be used full range amplification i.e from 20Hz &#8211; 20kHz. Class-D amps cannot be used on highs frequency response because they only produce square waves because of the technology involved, so they will make your highs sound lifeless and tinny. Class-AB amplifiers produce full variable signals and can capture subtle nuances better, sound warmer and generally have more depth in their sound.

Principles of Amplifier Operation in Z-2300:

1) A stereo audio signal comes in through the green 3.5mm audio connector with the control pod.

2) In the control pod, the signal passes through the main volume logarithmic potentiometer for attenuation.

3) This attenuated audio signal is then send down from the control pod to the subwoofer enclosure through a D-Sub connecter where the amplifier module exists. A JRC-4565 operational amplifier first receives this audio signal. The JRC-4565 having stereo handling capability distributes the audio signal into two places:
a) To the left and right satellite TDA7296 power amplifiers and then subsequently to the 2 satellite speakers.
b) Back up to the remote through the D-Sub connector.

4) Inside the remote, the stereo audio signal is split again:
a) To the headphone jack
b) To the subwoofer bass volume potentiometer (where it is combined to mono at this point)

5) Audio signal output from the subwoofer bass potentiometer finally gets fed back into the subwoofer enclosure through the D-Sub connector to the bridged TDA7295 subwoofer power amplifiers and then to the bass driver.

The four power amplifier chips operate at 8 ohms load in Z-2300 amplifier module.

Technical analysis of Class-AB, STMicroelectronics of TDA7295 & TDA7296 DMOS Audio Amplifiers

The TDA7295 & TDA7296 are both monolithic integrated circuit in Multiwatt15 package, intended for use as audio class AB amplifier in Hi-Fi field applications (Home Stereo, self powered loudspeakers, Topclass TV). Thanks to the wide voltage range and to the high out current capability it is able to supply the highest power into both 4 & 8 ohm loads even in presence of poor supply regulation, with high Supply Voltage Rejection. The built in muting function with turn on delay simplifies the remote operation avoiding switching on off noises. TDA7295 have a maximum output capacity of 80W while TDA7296 has 60W.

Remembering that the power supply of Z-2300 is +/- 26 VDC, the current being 3.75 A.

TDA7296

Output Power vs. Supply Voltage @ 8 ohms



Looking at the Output Power vs. Supply Voltage graph of TDA7296 above, we see it can produce 38W of power at 26 VDC at a respectable 0.5% THD.

So, at +/- 26 VDC --> 38W @ 0.5% THD @ 8 ohms

Distortion vs. Output Power @ 8 ohms



Distortion vs. Output Power graph of TDA7296 shows that at 38W @ 0.5% THD @ 8 ohms @ 26 VDC it starts to clip & distort. So in order to produce distortion free sounds this id the effective maximum of the chip.

Effective maximum of TDA7296: 38W @ 0.5% THD @ 8 ohms @ 26 VDC

Power Dissipation vs. Output Power @ 8 ohms



The Power Dissipation vs. Output Power graph of TDA7296 shows it as a very efficient Class-AB amplifier. At 38W @ 0.5% THD @ 8 ohms @ 26 VDC, the power dissipation is just 12W. This means if 50W is fed by the power supply to this TDA7296, it will deliver an output of 38W to the speaker whereas only 12W will be lost as heat.

So, this TDA7296 have an efficiency of 76% when it is producing 38W @ 0.5% THD @ 8 ohms @ 26 VDC. The power dissipation increases when the output power is reduced to half.

TDA7295

Two TDA7295 are bridged together into an 8 ohm load to power the subwoofer. Each of these TDA7295 sees effectively a 4 ohm load when bridged into an 8 ohm load. If you bridge an amplifier, the available power is the power of a single channel into half the load impedance multiplied by two.

Output Power vs. Supply Voltage of a single TDA7295@ 4 ohms



Looking at the Output Power vs. Supply Voltage graph of a single TDA7295 above, we see it can produce 65W of power at 26 VDC at a respectable 0.5% THD.

So, at +/- 26 VDC --> 65W @ 0.5% THD @ 4 ohms

Now if we bridge a pair of TDA7295, the available power is the power of a single channel into half the load impedance multiplied by two. Since TDA7295 produces 65W into 4 ohms, bridged it will produce 65 X 2 = 130W into 8 ohms.

So, at +/- 26 VDC a pair of bridged TDA7295 will produce --> 130W @ 8 ohms

Distortion vs. Output Power of a pair of bridged TDA7295@ 8 ohms



Distortion vs. Output Power graph of TDA7295 shows a pair of bridged TDA7295 after 100W starts to clip & distort. So in order to produce distortion free sounds this 100W is the effective maximum of the bridged TDA7295.

Power Dissipation vs. Output Power of a single TDA7295@ 4 ohms



The Power Dissipation vs. Output Power graph of TDA7295 shows it as an efficient Class-AB amplifier. At 65W @ 4 ohms @ 26 VDC, the power dissipation is 30W. This means if 95W is fed by the power supply to this TDA7295, it will deliver an output of 65W @ 4 ohms to the speaker whereas 30W will be lost as heat. In a bridged format it will deliver an output of 130W @ 8 ohms to the speaker whereas 60W will be lost as heat.

So, a pair of bridged TDA7295 have an efficiency of 68% when it is producing 130W @ 8 ohms @ 26 VDC. The power dissipation increases when the output power is reduced to half.

Looking at the above figures its seems that Logitech&#8217;s claim of 200W is true, since each satellites will have 38W while the subwoofer will get 130W which sums up to: 38 + 38 + 130 = 206 W @ 8 ohms @ 26 VDC

But, unfortunately that is not the case.

Z-2300 amplifier&#8217;s continuous power output capability

In order to produce 200W of continuous power, an amplifier will need a transformer that is capable of to deliver a minimum of 1.27 times the claimed wattage. Since Watt is volts multiplied by ampere, 200W of output requires 254 watts or 254VA transformer as a minimum requirement.

So, Z-2300&#8217;s supplied 150.9VA will produce a maximum of: 150.9/1.27 = 119W =~ 120W of continuous power @ 8 ohms @ 26 VDC

Since the ratio of power distribution between the subwoofer and the satellites are in the order of 1.71:1, the subwoofer will get 76W of continuous power while each satellite gets 22W of continuous power.

This becomes even more evident from the fact that the bass driver has a rated input power 80W, while the satellite speakers can handle anything between 20 to 40 watts.

The Total RMS Continuous Output Power of the four amplifier chips = 50(TDA7295) + 50(TDA7295) + 30(TDA7296) + 30(TDA7296) = 160W whereas the Total RMS Continuous Output Power of these four amplifier chips is 120W for Z-2300 since the the power supply limits the maximum power output.

Also these amplifiers will produce a lot of distortion & noise at the peak 160W power output. So, in order to produce distortion free, linear sound the amplifiers generally needs to reduce its output peak power by 25% or more. Using an amplifier with some extra &#8220;headroom&#8221; will help assure that only clean, undistorted power gets to your speakers. Reducing the maximum power from 160W to 120W Z-2300 creates a 25% headroom and justifies the stated system THD of better than 0.05% before clipping & signal to noise ratio of > 100dB.

Discrepancies about Power Output Figures

Remember that most audio amplifiers do not have power supplies capable of driving their rated power continuously. This holds absolutely true for all computer multimedia speakers systems & consumer home audio products. Only HiFi systems costing a lot of money have power supplies that can match the continuous power rating of the amplifiers.

This is because music is not like a continuous sine wave. It has peaks of intensity, then relatively quiet periods. If music has a 20dB dynamic range then if the peaks are 200W, the average power is probably around 5W.

A transformer can sometimes go well beyond its rated power output for small amount of time to handle these peaks of intensity. For example the 150.9VA transformer of Z-2300 can go up to 180VA to handle the peaks & produce 140W power for that moment.

If even further power is required to handle this peaks of intensity, say 200W, then the additional 60W is supplied by the two large 10,000uF, 35V power supply filter capacitors of Z-2300 for this short period of time. The filter capacitors can charge back up during the relatively quiet periods.

So the 150.9 VA transformer of Z-2300 is perfectly capable to deliver 120W of continuous power & can easily handle peaks reaching 200W.

That is the reason why Logitech states that Z-2300 have a Total RMS Power of 200W. Look at the absence of the &#8220;continuous&#8221; word. Except HiFi systems, you will always find these consumer audio companies talking about &#8220;FTC Rated Power&#8221;,&#8220;Total RMS Power&#8221;, &#8220;Power&#8221;, &#8220;Total Peak Power&#8221;, &#8220;System Power&#8221;, &#8220;Music Power&#8221;, &#8220;Peak Music Power Output (PMPO)&#8221;,&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. and the list goes on. But you will never find them talking about &#8220;Continuous Power&#8221; which happens to be the actual power of the amplifier.

Why Z-2300 is still the king of all 2.1 Multimedia Speaker System

Z-2300 is capable to produce 120 watts of continuous power which is a lot of power for a 2.1 PC speaker. Also, it is way more powerful than any of its competitors.

Look at the two shots of the Logitech Z-Cinema 2.1 speaker system power supply.



Take at even closer look at the main component of the Z-Cinema's switching power supply :



It is clearly stated, MAX TOTAL OUTPUT POWER 83.3W

Z-cinema&#8217;s switching power supply is capable to deliver a maximum of 83.3 watts which equates to 75 watts of continuous power from the amplifier. Also switching power supply cannot be overloaded the same way as transformers. In comparison, Z-2300 toroidal transformer alone is capable to produce 150.9 watts of power, not to mention it can even go up to 200W with the help of its internal capacitance & power supply filter capacitors to handle transient peaks on demand. So, on an average Z-2300 have 45W more than Z-Cinema. Same theory goes for the Z-2300 successor Z-623 which I believe is down by 40 watts or so.

Another famous example is Sony, notoriously known for their power out figures. Consider the case of Sony SRS DB-500 with 300W power output claim. A very famous website did a complete tear up of this DB-500 only to find out that the power supply can produce a mere 65 watts. So how does a 65W switching power supply produce 300W? Well even Sony is unable to answer this question.

So, the more you dig, the more you find out these power figures are marketing jargon, rather than true figures on which one can measure the performance of an audio system.
 
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PART-III

THX CERTIFICATION

THX stands for Tomlinson Holman&#8217;s eXperiment. A THX Certified Multimedia Speaker system is designed for those who crave the power and performance of home theater and studio sound at the desktop.THX certification recreates peak, Reference Level quality at your desktop listening position.

What is Reference Level? THX Reference Level, a setting designed to mirror the exact volume level used by movie makers and sound artists in the studio. When you are watching a movie on a THX Certified Multimedia Speaker System, you experience every sound element exactly like it was produced by the filmmaker&#8212;with the same fidelity, detail and clarity.

Speakers that can achieve THX Reference Level is no simple task. It requires a tremendous amount of power to drive an audio system effortlessly without clipping or distorting. THX Certified Multimedia Speaker Systems are designed to recreate Reference Level with minimal distortion.

THX worked closely with Logitech during product development, ensuring the two-satellite and subwoofer Z-2300 & Z-623 speaker system was meticulously mapped to THX design standards. Then, THX performed more than 400 bench tests, including frequency response, noise, distortion and power. The result is a THX Certified Multimedia Speaker system that delivers THX Reference Level sound pressure and fidelity &#8211; letting you hear every bass note, sound effect and dialogue as it was created in the studio.

Performance Benefits:
400 Bench Tests: THX acoustic and electrical bench tests ensure accurate and powerful audio performance.
THX Reference Level: Designed to mirror the performance characteristics of professional studio speakers, recreating peak, THX Reference Level quality.
Wide Bandwidth: Low frequency extension of satellite speakers ensures a smooth and balanced audio experience when sound pans from satellites to subwoofer.
Desktop Engineered: The Logitech Z-2300 or Z-623 are perfect for PC gaming, podcast production, audio and video editing, and enjoying music and movie applications on your desktop.

PERFORMENCE

1) QUOTES FROM DIFFERENT WEBSITES

i)Tomshardware

"Pump Up The Volume With 117 DB SPL

The response showed good balance and remarkable regularity in the midrange of up to 10 kHz. After that, performance slipped a little, which is to be expected from full-range drivers. Obviously the low end was nice and deep, which is normal for an enclosure of this size equipped with a good woofer and amplification. The 2300 isn't open to much criticism in this department."

SPL Figure Graphs

Satellites


"Response was remarkable in the upper part of the spectrum, even if the third-octave weighting linearized it somewhat. The hiccups in the lower end of the spectrum were largely due to the room where the measurements were made and should be ignored."

Subwoofer


"The 2300 handles the entire lower register. Like its predecessor, it can reproduce very low frequencies without weakening.

The Z-2300, based on Logitech's 2200, will serve as a reference point in the world of high-performance 2.1 speakers. While we would have preferred to see the satellites offer two-way drivers, the final result is that the speakers are at the high end of the quality spectrum. The 2300 thus represents one of the rare possible choices in this product sector for those who seek the best in the category."

ii) Tech-Labs (Russian)

Frequency Response

"Subwoofer little nedotyagivaet to lower the declared value, although both show a great result - 45 Hz. However, his characterization is not perfect, we can state a clear peak and the absence of a "shelf". The satellites, show a fantastic uniformity. Over the entire operating range it does not exceed ± 2.5 dB. For full range satellite speakers in the multimedia speakers category, such a result can be considered the supreme achievement."

Harmonic Distortion

THD Subwoofer

"THD of the subwoofer is very low even at high volume, they do not exceed 10%."

THD Satellites

"The tiny full range drivers perfectly wins back a wide frequency range, it develops impressive power too."



Fs = 42.95 Hz
Re = 7.80 ohms [dc]
Le = 7328.42 uH
L2 = 3120.63 uH
R2 = 52.25 ohms
Qt = 0.52
Qes = 0.57
Qms = 6.49
Mms = 50.81 grams
Rms = 2.112233 kg / s
Cms = 0.000270 m / N
Vas = 10.35 liters
Sd = 165.13 cm ^ 2
Bl = 13.755757 Tm
ETA = 0.14%
Lp (2.83V/1m) = 83.66 dB

"The resonant frequency is quite low, only 42 Hz. In sum, with a low Q factor is comparable to the use of acoustic design. Also, thanks to a massive system of magnetic head has a truly outstanding power factor."





"On set of indicators above, our assessment of today will be strictly positive. Z-2300 has an excellent manufacturing quality and very easy to use because of the remote volume control. The sound quality which i am not afraid to say, the highest. Massive subwoofer reproduces deep & rich bass that perfectly complemented by bright sounding satellites. Despite the relatively small size, power acoustics really high, we can say is very high. According to test results Logitech Z-2300 receives the award "Editor's Choice" in its class.

iii)CNET

"Editor's Rating: 4/5
Design : 9/10
Features : 9/10
Performance : 9/10

The Good: Outstanding audio quality; streamlined, efficient design; adapter for game consoles.

The Bad: Upward-firing satellites not adjustable; hardwired cables.

The Bottom Line: Logitech's Z-2300s have been on the market for more than half a decade, but these PC speakers still pack a sonic wallop."

iv) 3DXtreme

"A set of Speakers is hard to review, because there is no way to present comparisons, charts and graphs. Here is what we can say &#8211; for about $110 I have not heard a better set of speakers at this price point. We&#8217;ve reviewed a few budget sets of speakers that just fell short in the sound category lacking clarity and bass. When this set came along it was like a breath of fresh air. It may not have the volume or the power of the Z-6800 (which I also have) but on their own they sound amazing. Watching movies, listening to music and gaming is all a great experience with these speakers. Keep in mind they are only 2.1 channel speakers however this set of speakers has the Lucas THX certification &#8211; I&#8217;ve found that speakers with this certification to be a notch above the rest of the other products found on the market. Maybe I&#8217;m spoiled by Logitech and their speakers but to me this would be a worthwhile $100 purchase for anyone looking to get the most for their money. Logitech even throws in an adaptor that will allow the user to connect these speakers directly to a DVD player or game console.

Pros
Great sound.
Incredible bass.
SoundTouch with headphone jack.
Logitech quality.
Cons
Short wires on the satellite speakers
"
v) Bildochljud.se

"Sound Quality [Translated using Google Translate]
Here we are really surprised. Logitech's holding is not so much from the crowd in a negative sense as we feared. The sound will not be near the B & W's or Harman / Kardon, but it actually costs Z-2300 just a fraction too. If we compare with Altec Lansing, we are actually prepared to say that Logitech do better. The balance between the satellites and subwoofer is better here. You can almost play as loud as you want and the subwoofer has a great rumbling that matches the satellites well. We heard no distortion when the volume was turned up properly and balance, like I said very good.Logitech handle sensitive music and hard rock in the same fine manner. This is simply a cheap alternative that provides excellent value for money. No one style icon, but in short, a good sound for a small amount. We like the Z-2300."

vi) pocketnow.com

"OVERALL IMPRESSION
I've always been partial to offerings from Klipsch - I've owned many of their products, and to me they represent a very high level of quality. I expected the ProMedia 2.1 THX system to remain the king on the block even with, but as indicated by the ratings above, Logitech has brought to the market the next champion in high-end 2.1 multimedia audio namely the Z-2300."

2) MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS

Music: Throughout my 2 years with Z-2300, one thing became very clear; these are very neutral sounding speakers. What is produced by these speakers is very smooth, and very pleasant to listen to. The one thing that does come to mind when listening though is power. Z-2300 is capable of producing 117 dB which is a world record for a 2.1 multimedia speaker system. The subwoofer lets itself be known with its slamming tight & precise bass which at times are powerful enough to knock the wind out of your lungs. The satellites feature a nice, natural sound with excellent representation. If the user wants, they can boost the subwoofer levels through the roof though my ears will be bleeding by then.

I am dealing with one of the best solutions for pure listening pleasure, with a clean sound devoid of any colorings, embellishment or ornamentation in the sound, commonly found in Altec Lansing and Creative speaker systems. Now I can easily hear many of the previously obscure details in the compositions of a complicated music composition, and can clearly set apart all the instruments used in the music composition, thus I am able to focus not only on the primary instrument, which is audible, but also on the fact that what instrument I want to hear.

Even though these are not two way satellites, the phase plug allows the 2.5&#8221; driver to more accurately reproduce the high end of the frequency spectrum. There is no background noise with these speakers, and definitely none of the hiss that my Altec Lansing MX-5021 suffered from. The analog input was very clean, and it was able to reproduce the sound with great accuracy.

Movies: These speakers are exceptionally clear at reproducing dialogue, as well as action, in a wide variety of movies. Even when there is a lot of action and music on screen, dialogue is never drowned out, nor does it get muddy or indistinct. The lack of any kind of hiss also helps in playback, as the softer, more subtle scenes draw the viewer into the movie. The satellites do an outstanding job of reproduction.

When the action gets heavy, the subwoofer really kicks in. The bass is tight and strong, and it will make a user&#8217;s chest thump if the content calls for it. Low end effects can really help to heighten the tension of a scene, as well as help to expand the overall environment. The subwoofer on these speakers is able to handle nearly every explosive scene thrown at it. Never once did it sound like the subwoofer bottomed out, or sound strained, or even chuffed. The ported design is surprisingly quiet, considering in other designs I have heard quite clearly the air moving in and out. Overall, for a 2.1 set of speakers, these turned out to be quite good for movie reproduction.

Games: This is probably the area where these speakers excel the most. The satellites are very clear in gaming, and their mid-bass is very present, but not overpowering. High frequency sounds are usually not present in most games, so the lack of a tweeter here does not affect gaming performance one bit. The satellites are able to provide excellent sound in a variety of gaming situations, and the ability to accurately reproduce the HRTF effects makes for a very immersive experience.

The subwoofer really gets a workout from many of the new action games, and it keeps asking for more. In titles such as Need for Speed Undercover, the subwoofer plays a very large part in the action.

VERDICT

Z-2300 is hitting the end of the production cycle. It is the last of the titans which is finally going to take slumber. It has definitely the upper hand over its opponents namely Logitech Z-623, Altec Lansing MX-6021, Sony SRS DB-500, Edifier S530, Klipsch Promedia 2.1 & Creative Gigaworks T3 in terms of performance. Also Z-2300 is the clear winner in terms of performance/ price ratio.

When you put the Z-2300 in the above equation, everything falls loose. Z-2300 is like a lion among a herd of cattle&#8217;s named Z-623, DB-500, S530, Promedia & T3.

1) None of the above sets have the power output capability of Z-2300. Z-2300 is the loudest of the lot and makes the opposition eat the dust.

2) Z-2300 has wonderful power reserve in the amplifier & thus do not distort even at full volume. Z-623 & all the other sets distorts at full volume.

3) In terms of music representation Z-2300 is second to none. Since Z-2300 uses Class-AB amplifiers, the sound produced by Z-2300 is more natural, very well defined & represents the true analog nature of the human voice. Both male & female voices are excellently represented in Z-2300. In contrast Z-623&#8217;s Class-D amplifier lacks a little bit of the natural feel & warmth in the sound as found in Z-2300 and represents more that of MX-6021 & DB-500 in their sound characteristics. The subwoofer has tight bass but the overall bass of the Z-623 is not well defined. A system with Class-AB amplifiers (as in Z-2300) will produce bass which is a little less deeper than a Class-D of Z-623, but the bass will be much more defined & accurate and also feel more natural & real.

For example, playing the track "Chant" of the band Foreplay, I noticed that the kick drums of that track produce "boom boom boom" on the Z-623. Playing the same track on Z-2300, the kick drums sounded "booouuumm booouuumm booouuumm" which happens to be the actual sound of kick drums. In contrast, Z-623 bass goes a little deeper but is less natural & neutral.

If you really need a high end 2.1 THX certified multimedia speaker system don&#8217;t waste any more time and get a Z-2300 while it is still available. If it not available then only greet the new champ of the block, Logitech Z-623.
 
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I got the z-2300 after all the great reviews and thought it was way over-hyped. I paid $80 so it was good for the price but there is no way it's a high end 2.1 system. It's pretty good for games and movies but horrible for music. The highs are very fatiguing and it's hard to hear the vocals. It's pretty good for simple acoustic music but anything with a lot of instruments and it gets hard to hear the vocals. The bass control is also a joke because anything pass half way will changes the tone of the lower midrange. I can actually hear dialogue and vocals start to get deeper as I turn the bass pass 30%. Sure, the sub can get loud but it's very boomy. My Altec Lansing ACS45.1 set from 2000 sounds a lot better than the z-2300 and was also under $100. It's no where near as loud but it sure does sound better.
 
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I got the z-2300 after all the great reviews and thought it was way over-hyped. I paid $80 so it was good for the price but there is no way it's a high end 2.1 system. It's pretty good for games and movies but horrible for music. The highs are very fatiguing and it's hard to hear the vocals. It's pretty good for simple acoustic music but anything with a lot of instruments and it gets hard to hear the vocals. The bass control is also a joke because anything pass half way will changes the tone of the lower midrange. I can actually hear dialogue and vocals start to get deeper as I turn the bass pass 30%. Sure, the sub can get loud but it's very boomy. My Altec Lansing ACS45.1 set from 2000 sounds a lot better than the z-2300 and was also under $100. It's no where near as loud but it sure does sound better.

Misconceptions about the Z-2300's bass heavy sound characteristic:

One misconception about Z-2300 is that it has no midbass i.e. 150 - 200 Hz frequency range is absent as well as all of the high frequencies are also missing.

The day i bought the Z-2300 and plugged it into my computer, i immediately noticed a kind of mushy sound from the satellites and was sorely disappointed. Then i gave a call to Logitech, and they told me that drivers are not properly run in, or more precisely this drivers need to be 'burned out'. Then i played Basstronics songs which have ultra low & high frequency sounds at half volume and 100% bass volume and shook every window of my house.

The bass driver was moving like hell & demonstrated their prodigious power. The satellite drivers cones were also moving a lot & the heat sink became as hot as furnace!!! So, after this initial burn in the satellites amazingly became so sweet and produced immaculate mid & high frequencies.

Z-2300 uses a very special type of driver in the satellites namely, polished aluminium phase plug full range drivers which focuses the acoustic energy or sound emitting from the drivers and project it to the listeners ears. It is like a very highly focused projectile of sound waves hitting your ears. This is done so that the user can hear every minute detail of the sound.

So even at very low volume i being seated in front of the computer desk, really feel immersed in the sound and also able to hear every minute detail of a complicated music composition. Also the angle of the satellites cannot be changed since THX states that all the finer details of the sound must reach the listeners ears. In other words, the Z-2300's satellites have unidirectional characteristics and is absolutely opposite to surround sound. Theoretically this is perfect since a 2.1 is not designed to produce surround sound.

I personally own the MX-6021, and i can safely say every time i want to hear a song, watch a movie or play games i always use my Z-2300 instead of MX-6021. Every time I listen to the MX-6021, I get a type of sound with a crispy boom. Z-2300 lacks this crispy boom and feels blunt compared to the MX-6021. So, any normal person will naturally come to the conclusion that MX-6021 is better than Z-2300. But, man You Couldn't Be More Wrong....

People normally perceive this crispy, bacon frying or shrilly kind of sounds as the clarity of the sound system which in reality, i am sorry to say in not the case because they over exaggerated and not the real sound. It is like a default equalizer preset on the speaker system with accentuated high frequencies. And also in the quest of perceived clarity as in the case of MX-6021 my ears are not able to pick up some finer details of a complicated music.

After using the Z-2300 for about a week my ears got settled to its sound characteristics and i was able to hear much more finer detailing in the upper ranges of the frequency spectrum that my MX-6021 was not able to produce with its perceived unreal clarity. I was amazed and thoroughly thanked the Logitech engineers in my mind who did not go after unreal sound which have perceived clarity but after real sound. Remember though both units costs the same.

So you have to decide, do you want to go for real sound or sound with perceived clarity. Audiophile's always go out for real sound, so i got the Z-2300 and i rate it way above my MX-6021.
 
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I use my BX5a hooked up to a uDAC-2 for real clarity. The z-2300 is a joke when it comes to music. I think you should take your own advice and decide if "you want to go for real sound or sound with perceived clarity". I guess you would think the z-2300 is a high end 2.1 system when you compare it to something like the Altec Lansing MX-6021.
 
I use my BX5a hooked up to a uDAC-2 for real clarity. The z-2300 is a joke when it comes to music. I think you should take your own advice decide if "you want to go for real sound or sound with perceived clarity". I guess you would think the z-2300 is a high end 2.1 system when you compare it to something like the Altec Lansing MX-6021.

Look man, you are talking about "BX5a hooked up to a uDAC-2 for real clarity" in HardForum's computer audio section. I mean think about what you are writing or comparing about. Here people talks about COMPUTER AUDIO.

What is the cost of your audio system mentioned above?

I have a Audio Engine 5. It sound like the voice of an angel while playing music.But I still rate my Z-2300 over AE5 in movies & games, Z-2300 have that THX imprinted thunderous effect which is so much required while watching Transformers : Revenge of the Fallen or playing Need For Speed : Hot Pursiut. And I will never compare between this two since AE5 costs three times the Z-2300. When you pay more you deserve to get more. It is comon & natural.

I will request you not to write a one line comment opposing one of my points without commenting the reason why. Give a justifiable reason. It is like saying "This is good" or "That is bad" without a reason.
 
Look man, you are talking about "BX5a hooked up to a uDAC-2 for real clarity" in HardForum's computer audio section. I mean think about what you are writing or comparing about. Here people talks about COMPUTER AUDIO.

You just registered today and you're trying to educate someone who's been a member for 6 years?

Lots of people here use receivers and passive speakers to use as computer speakers.

What is the cost of your audio system mentioned above?

The uDAC 2 is about $130 and the BX5a is $200. $330 if you paid MSRP. $330 isn't an outrageous amount to spend on an audio setup.

When you pay more you deserve to get more. It is comon & natural.

Its expected and as a result we sometimes perceive we're getting more, but its not necessarily common or natural. Your A5's cost more, yet you still prefer your Z-2300's for games and movies. One situation where you clearly didn't get more. If you want more bass with the A5, I'd suggest picking up the AE S8 subwoofer.


I think you are giving the THX label more weight than it deserves.
 
Real sound and Logitech, huh. Not the choice I would make for that kind of money.
Oh yeah...Last of the titans. heh heh
 
lol, wow, I stumbled on this after having experienced the intense discussion (mostly questioning the results, methods, and intentions of this "RishiGuru" guy) over on Audiokarma - which he most conveniently left missing from his links here...

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=340638

EDIT: Ahh, and that thread has been closed now... apparently not even worthy of continuing.

I'd like to point out that his "blog" was only created this December and consists solely of his Z-2300 review and a related post or two...

That's not even to go over the abysmal true performance of the Z-2300, particularly from where the satellites drop out at approximately 300 Hz and the sub takes over, with a nice gap midbass and the sub playing so high that you get very audible directionality of sound. Oh, and a 5 dB bump over the rest of the frequency response from 50-100 Hz resulting in absurdly boomy bass, followed by a steep drop-off that results in a -3 dB point around 45 Hz...

The frequency plot he so graciously presents bears this all out:
c8e9f1059e.jpg


That's not good performance. That's boomy bass to mask the fact that there's little to no real bass extension going on here.

Now for $115 or whatever, sure, you'll have to stumble upon a pretty good deal for some used gear to get a two-channel system that puts out the same level of bass above 45 Hz. But quality? Give me a break...

I had my fun with a Logitech Z-5300 back in college, and then I discovered what audio really could sound like when I received a pair of Infinity RS-5 (1982) speakers as hand-me-downs from my dad.

The best part is that our Mr. RishiGuru claimed over at Audiokarma that this was a "cost no-object" system for the Logitech engineers to go wild with. Yeah, sure... Tell that to Arnie Nudell and Gary Christie and their IRS...
 
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You guys, have you ever heard of NPA? Question the logic, the reasoning, the conclusions drawn, and the opinion. Don't question or attack the person simply because he's new.

It's one thing to say 'your interpretation of the quality of a product is different from mine, and I think my interpretation is more correct', it's another thing to say 'your new to this forum so your opinion doesn't count, and we have the right to put the credibility of you and your allegedly unbiased opinion under a microscope simply because we disagree with your findings'.

I always admired wikipedia for this policy, and it would do well in other cases sometimes.

EDIT: Another thing I'd like to add. I don't know much about good computer audio, but I invite anyone who disagrees with OP to find a set of 2.1 speakers that are "better", in the $130 price range. Of all the comments I read, one said 'my $330 setup is superior', one said 'it's Logitech, therefore fuck all what the quality of the components used are', one said 'he made his account earlier, therefore he's right', and two said 'your new, shut your mouth'. One person made a credible statement that the Z-2300 has shortcomings in one key area, none of them suggested an alternative. Find something in the $130 price range that is superior.
 
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I have two Z2300 sets, one at home and and one at work. It's arguably the best (bassiest) 2.1 system at sub $150 price point. Does it do everything well? No. Mid range can be somewhat lacking at times but for the price and for the things that it does do well, it's pretty damn good 2.1 system.
 
You just registered today and you're trying to educate someone who's been a member for 6 years?

Lots of people here use receivers and passive speakers to use as computer speakers.



The uDAC 2 is about $130 and the BX5a is $200. $330 if you paid MSRP. $330 isn't an outrageous amount to spend on an audio setup.



Its expected and as a result we sometimes perceive we're getting more, but its not necessarily common or natural. Your A5's cost more, yet you still prefer your Z-2300's for games and movies. One situation where you clearly didn't get more. If you want more bass with the A5, I'd suggest picking up the AE S8 subwoofer.


I think you are giving the THX label more weight than it deserves.

450, you did not get me. I am not here to educate anyone. I just told superballz00 to compare Z-2300 with other 2.1 multimedia speaker systems available for the computers.

You say: "Lots of people here use receivers and passive speakers to use as computer speakers."

I know that very well. After all I have three PC, one is connected to Z-2300, the other to AE5 and the last one............ well lets just say the subwoofer of the system alone cost me $12,000.

But I never compare between the three, because all of them relate to different segments in the audio field. What I admire the most about Z-2300, is how much I get in return in terms of audio quality to the meager $100 i spent on it..

You said : "Its expected and as a result we sometimes perceive we're getting more, but its not necessarily common or natural."

I did not understand the meaning of this sentence. Kindly describe.

You said: "Your A5's cost more, yet you still prefer your Z-2300's for games and movies. One situation where you clearly didn't get more. If you want more bass with the A5, I'd suggest picking up the AE S8 subwoofer."

Here you completely miss the point & topic of this thread. This thread is about Z-2300 which happens to be a multimedia speaker system. This is not a thread for upgradation. I mean, I can give $20,000 upgradation package which is going to blow the AE5 + AE8 to the heaven.

You said : "I think you are giving the THX label more weight than it deserves."

I admit THX Multemedia may not be THX ULTRA, but it is still a good thing.
 
You guys, have you ever heard of NPA? Question the logic, the reasoning, the conclusions drawn, and the opinion. Don't question or attack the person simply because he's new.

It's one thing to say 'your interpretation of the quality of a product is different from mine, and I think my interpretation is more correct', it's another thing to say 'your new to this forum so your opinion doesn't count, and we have the right to put the credibility of you and your allegedly unbiased opinion under a microscope simply because we disagree with your findings'.

I always admired wikipedia for this policy, and it would do well in other cases sometimes.

Absolutely spot on XacTactX, you get ten out of ten from me for just being the the first person to provide a justifiable, concise, to the point & specific comment to me in HardForum.

You started a comment and provided a solid conclusion. Nine out of ten people lacks this. It seems you are one of those big fish. It was nice to know you & I hope to have many more fruitful conversesion in the future.

Cheers!!!
 
450, you did not get me. I am not here to educate anyone. I just told superballz00 to compare Z-2300 with other 2.1 multimedia speaker systems available for the computers.

Look at what you said below and what you said above. They aren't the same thing. If you wanted to say the above, you should have just said that.

Look man, you are talking about "BX5a hooked up to a uDAC-2 for real clarity" in HardForum's computer audio section. I mean think about what you are writing or comparing about. Here people talks about COMPUTER AUDIO.

What is the cost of your audio system mentioned above?

I have a Audio Engine 5. It sound like the voice of an angel while playing music.But I still rate my Z-2300 over AE5 in movies & games, Z-2300 have that THX imprinted thunderous effect which is so much required while watching Transformers : Revenge of the Fallen or playing Need For Speed : Hot Pursiut. And I will never compare between this two since AE5 costs three times the Z-2300. When you pay more you deserve to get more. It is comon & natural.

I will request you not to write a one line comment opposing one of my points without commenting the reason why. Give a justifiable reason. It is like saying "This is good" or "That is bad" without a reason.

You say: "Lots of people here use receivers and passive speakers to use as computer speakers."

I know that very well. After all I have three PC, one is connected to Z-2300, the other to AE5 and the last one............ well lets just say the subwoofer of the system alone cost me $12,000.

But I never compare between the three, because all of them relate to different segments in the audio field. What I admire the most about Z-2300, is how much I get in return in terms of audio quality to the meager $100 i spent on it..

Honestly, an in-depth write-up about your expensive setup would be more appreciated and would actually receive praise instead of harsh criticism.

If you talked about how you think the Z-2300 is a good value for money at $100 instead of claiming its a "titan", you'd get a much different response. Consider working on your presentation in the future.

You said : "Its expected and as a result we sometimes perceive we're getting more, but its not necessarily common or natural."

I did not understand the meaning of this sentence. Kindly describe.

Sometimes people believe they are getting a better product because they paid more money for it. For example, I presented an acquaintance a bottle of Evian filled with city tap water and a glass of water filled with water from the Evian bottle. Now, this guy LOVES Evian water, and refuses to drink any other sort of bottled water because he feels that Evian water tastes better. When he drank both, he said he loved the water in the Evian bottle much, much more. Funny, since it was tap water inside! But then I brought him more water in a glass filled with tap water. He insisted that the Evian was better. The point is that sometimes we believe what we want to believe.

You said: "Your A5's cost more, yet you still prefer your Z-2300's for games and movies. One situation where you clearly didn't get more. If you want more bass with the A5, I'd suggest picking up the AE S8 subwoofer."

Here you completely miss the point & topic of this thread. This thread is about Z-2300 which happens to be a multimedia speaker system. This is not a thread for upgradation. I mean, I can give $20,000 upgradation package which is going to blow the AE5 + AE8 to the heaven.

http://www.amazon.com/Audioengine-Powered-Multimedia-Speaker-System/dp/B000OABTPQ

The A5 is also marketed as a multimedia speaker system.

You said : "I think you are giving the THX label more weight than it deserves."

I admit THX Multemedia may not be THX ULTRA, but it is still a good thing.

How is it a good thing? It seems like all it does it add to the cost of the final product.
 
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lol, wow, I stumbled on this after having experienced the intense discussion (mostly questioning the results, methods, and intentions of this "RishiGuru" guy) over on Audiokarma - which he most conveniently left missing from his links here...

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=340638

EDIT: Ahh, and that thread has been closed now... apparently not even worthy of continuing.

I'd like to point out that his "blog" was only created this December and consists solely of his Z-2300 review and a related post or two...

That's not even to go over the abysmal true performance of the Z-2300, particularly from where the satellites drop out at approximately 300 Hz and the sub takes over, with a nice gap midbass and the sub playing so high that you get very audible directionality of sound. Oh, and a 5 dB bump over the rest of the frequency response from 50-100 Hz resulting in absurdly boomy bass, followed by a steep drop-off that results in a -3 dB point around 45 Hz...

The frequency plot he so graciously presents bears this all out:
c8e9f1059e.jpg


That's not good performance. That's boomy bass to mask the fact that there's little to no real bass extension going on here.

Now for $115 or whatever, sure, you'll have to stumble upon a pretty good deal for some used gear to get a two-channel system that puts out the same level of bass above 45 Hz. But quality? Give me a break...

I had my fun with a Logitech Z-5300 back in college, and then I discovered what audio really could sound like when I received a pair of Infinity RS-5 (1982) speakers as hand-me-downs from my dad.

The best part is that our Mr. RishiGuru claimed over at Audiokarma that this was a "cost no-object" system for the Logitech engineers to go wild with. Yeah, sure... Tell that to Arnie Nudell and Gary Christie and their IRS...

Blackbeard Ben, have you done any review of your audio products lately? If yes, I am impatient to see those. Can you provide their links. If not, kindly do not reply.

I am amazed why didn't you not take part in the discussion with me in Audio Karma? I joined AudioKarma on December, 2010 and immediately posted a thread thus creating a new topic. I was atleast able to donate something new to that forum. I was personally thanked my AudioKarma administrator "Celt" in his message.

It amazes me to find out that you joined AudioKarma on January, 2010 and still do not have a single thread to your credit. I wonder why? Are you out of topic? Or do you just copy & paste other's comment.

It's time to find out yourself.

PS: It was very nice to include the thread of AudioKarma
 
EDIT: Another thing I'd like to add. I don't know much about good computer audio, but I invite anyone who disagrees with OP to find a set of 2.1 speakers that are "better", in the $130 price range. Of all the comments I read, one said 'my $330 setup is superior', one said 'it's Logitech, therefore fuck all what the quality of the components used are', one said 'he made his account earlier, therefore he's right', and two said 'your new, shut your mouth'. One person made a credible statement that the Z-2300 has shortcomings in one key area, none of them suggested an alternative. Find something in the $130 price range that is superior.

It's a $330 setup, but it includes the soundcard. With only the speakers, its $200.

$130-ish...
Swan M10
Klipsch PM2.1 (if you can find the older ones)
Used receiver (cheap on craigslist) + bookshelf speakers such as a Yamaha NS-6490
Used minisystem on craigslist/ebay
 
Look at what you said below and what you said above. They aren't the same thing. If you wanted to say the above, you should have just said that.





Honestly, an in-depth write-up about your expensive setup would be more appreciated and would actually receive praise instead of harsh criticism.

If you talked about how you think the Z-2300 is a good value for money at $100 instead of claiming its a "titan", you'd get a much different response. Consider working on your presentation in the future.



Sometimes people believe they are getting a better product because they paid more money for it. For example, I presented an acquaintance a bottle of Evian filled with city tap water and a glass of water filled with water from the Evian bottle. Now, this guy LOVES Evian water, and refuses to drink any other sort of bottled water because he feels that Evian water tastes better. When he drank both, he said he loved the water in the Evian bottle much, much more. Funny, since it was tap water inside! But then I brought him more water in a glass filled with tap water. He insisted that the Evian was better. The point is that sometimes we believe what we want to believe.



http://www.amazon.com/Audioengine-Powered-Multimedia-Speaker-System/dp/B000OABTPQ

The A5 is also marketed as a multimedia speaker system.



How is it a good thing? It seems like all it does it add to the cost of the final product.

Your explanation of the sentence "Its expected and as a result we sometimes perceive we're getting more, but its not necessarily common or natural." was very well defined. I liked that. You are right about it, many a times people believe that more money equals better.

You said: "The A5 is also marketed as a multimedia speaker system."

WRONG!!! Marketing of a product by a company is done in their own website & not in Amazon & BestBuy. Online websites like Amazon categorizes products according to what they seem fit and not what the maker thought about it. Man you should be wise enough to know that.

In AE website link below they are stated as "Premium Powered Bookshelf Speakers"

http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-5

I said: "I admit THX Multemedia may not be THX ULTRA, but it is still a good thing."

You replied :"How is it a good thing? It seems like all it does it add to the cost of the final product."

Very very big comment about a multinational company. Have you any thing to prove in order to justify your claim that THX only add cost to a system & not audio quality?
 
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Blackbeard Ben, have you done any review of your audio products lately? If yes, I am impatient to see those. Can you provide their links. If not, kindly do not reply.

I am amazed why didn't you not take part in the discussion with me in Audio Karma? I joined AudioKarma on December, 2010 and immediately posted a thread thus creating a new topic. I was atleast able to donate something new to that forum. I was personally thanked my AudioKarma administrator "Celt" in his message.

It amazes me to find out that you joined AudioKarma on January, 2010 and still do not have a single thread to your credit. I wonder why? Are you out of topic? Or do you just copy & paste other's comment.

It's time to find out yourself.

PS: It was very nice to include the thread of AudioKarma

lolwut?

Do a little research next time, buddy. I've started four threads there (albeit not exactly the most helpful ones in this case - I rather prefer to help those who have started threads) - and it's not a forum I visit very often (same as here). I won't bother to tell you about all the other places I've contributed.... Okay, that's probably just bait for you - so among those I do (or have) frequented and helped are Head-Fi, Flickr, and Cyber Nations. I've spent less time here, at AK, Audiogon, and others...

But do you judge everyone by how many threads they've started or how many posts they've made? The people I detest most from forums are sometimes those who are constantly posting - quantity does NOT equal quality. Nor does length equal quality.

I DID take part in the discussion over at AK - you just failed to respond to me, and the thread was subsequently closed. I'll state that question again: How can you possibly justify/claim that the Z-2300 is a "cost no-object" system? I take that from the following:

When Logitech introduced Z-2300 back in 2004, it was a THX certified premium quality top of the range product. The Logitech engineers in the lab where given a clear goal i.e. to create the ultimate 2.1 multimedia speaker system in the world. They were not concerned about the price, they were more concerned about the performance & quality which lead in using premium quality components, be it electronic components, speakers used, wooden casings of the subwoofers, plastic casings of the satellites and even the wires used to connect the components. Price was never an issue, performance was. This single mindedness of the engineers produced a unique product, and Z-2300 was born.


As for reviews, read #2 here for the Infinity Renaissance 90:
http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/infi...eakers/renaissance-90/PRD_119649_1594crx.aspx

Oh, and this discussion on "Is it the recording or my system":
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503372/distortion-on-massive-attack-s-angel-recording-or-system

Perhaps you'd like a dozen-plus short and to the point lens reviews:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/365610@N21/discuss/72157614866802746/

Yes, I do appreciate the effort you put into your review. I don't agree with how you conveniently gloss over the issues with the system - which yes, I do agree, is pretty good for its current price, assuming what you want is MOAR bass and you want a satellite/sub system for under $130 or whatever.

For the record, staring at me across the room right now in storage on a shelf is the sub from one Z-2300 system that my brother used to use. Now he has a pair of Klipsch KG 4s, which are pretty good for less than $200 on the used market. I used to have the Z-5300 until I learned better (and inherited a hand-me-down pair of Infinity RS-5 (1982) speakers).

As for systems in the same price range, how about buying used? Going into the local used record/CD store last summer, they had a pair of Polk Monitor 7 speakers and a Carver TFM-15CB amp, for $60 and $80, respectively. Already owning two of those Carvers I had to get that third one, and my dad has a pair of those Polks, so I knew how good they were for that price. So, total cost for that? $140. No, they won't fit on any but the biggest desk. But you get more than MOAR bass...

Look in the right places, and there's even better deals. Over at AK, you can find a guy an hour's drive away from me who bought $2000+ worth in pristine McIntosh gear at an estate sale for $175. You won't find that every day - but the fact remains, there are far better ways to go if you really appreciate the music.

My personal choice for a budget satellite/sub combo, since MOAR bass seems to be the goal here? I'd get the Dayton DTA-1/B652 combo for $58, and add a Dayton Sub HT-120 for $160. Yes, we're above the cost of the $130 Z-2300. But at $218 (plus $10 for cables), it's not an entirely unrealistic price jump. And we're talking about a huge change in performance here - not to mention modularity.

I thought that maybe you'd be above personal attacks, but I guess not. Anything to get the word out, it seems.
 
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It's a $330 setup, but it includes the soundcard. With only the speakers, its $200.

$130-ish...
Swan M10
Klipsch PM2.1 (if you can find the older ones)
Used receiver (cheap on craigslist) + bookshelf speakers such as a Yamaha NS-6490
Used minisystem on craigslist/ebay

Man, now one goes to second's sale. That was the last straw left I think. For info, Z-2300 cost $35 in seconds sale. It now even beats your "$130-ish..."
 
You guys, have you ever heard of NPA? Question the logic, the reasoning, the conclusions drawn, and the opinion. Don't question or attack the person simply because he's new.

It's one thing to say 'your interpretation of the quality of a product is different from mine, and I think my interpretation is more correct', it's another thing to say 'your new to this forum so your opinion doesn't count, and we have the right to put the credibility of you and your allegedly unbiased opinion under a microscope simply because we disagree with your findings'.

I always admired wikipedia for this policy, and it would do well in other cases sometimes.

EDIT: Another thing I'd like to add. I don't know much about good computer audio, but I invite anyone who disagrees with OP to find a set of 2.1 speakers that are "better", in the $130 price range. Of all the comments I read, one said 'my $330 setup is superior', one said 'it's Logitech, therefore fuck all what the quality of the components used are', one said 'he made his account earlier, therefore he's right', and two said 'your new, shut your mouth'. One person made a credible statement that the Z-2300 has shortcomings in one key area, none of them suggested an alternative. Find something in the $130 price range that is superior.

Well good for you, are you done patting your self on the back. I wrote one of the comments you mention and it did not say the things that you claim it did. Go ahead and misquote all you like. While we are jumping to conclusions it would be just as easy to assume you and the OP are the same person.
It would not be the first time a compny rep has done this sort of thing in this forum.
 
Man, now one goes to second's sale. That was the last straw left I think. For info, Z-2300 cost $35 in seconds sale. It now even beats your "$130-ish..."

Just because it is cheaper does not mean it is better, in quality or any other means.
Could be $35 is all people think it is worth after using the product.
 
Well good for you, are you done patting your self on the back. I wrote one of the comments you mention and it did not say the things that you claim it did. Go ahead and misquote all you like. While we are jumping to conclusions it would be just as easy to assume you and the OP are the same person.
It would not be the first time a compny rep has done this sort of thing in this forum.

I misunderstood your post originally. My mistake. But the OP went to the trouble of disassembling them to find out the internal components and what features they have(though I didn't understand any of that part). He didn't do all that research so that you could dismiss it with: "Real sound and Logitech, huh. Not the choice I would make for that kind of money."

I stumbled upon what looked like a professional in-depth review, and saw that people simply dismissed his work because he is new here, and don't agree with his findings or the universal acclaim that the speakers have received from IIRC 4 or 5 review sites. I have nothing to do with the OP, and have no reason to explain myself to your random accusation.

EDIT: This thread is a waste of CO2. I will no longer be looking at it, and suggest that no one comment any further on any of my remarks, as it will only increase the rate of the ozone layer's depletion. Thank you RishiGuru for the informative review, good luck to you.
 
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lolwut?

Do a little research next time, buddy. I've started four threads there (albeit not exactly the most helpful ones in this case - I rather prefer to help those who have started threads) - and it's not a forum I visit very often (same as here). I won't bother to tell you about all the other places I've contributed.... Okay, that's probably just bait for you - so among those I do (or have) frequented and helped are Head-Fi, Flickr, and Cyber Nations.

I DID take part in the discussion over at AK - you just failed to respond to me, and the thread was subsequently closed. I'll state that question again: How can you possibly justify/claim that the Z-2300 is a "cost no-object" system? I take that from the following:




As for reviews, read #2 here for the Infinity Renaissance 90:
http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/infi...eakers/renaissance-90/PRD_119649_1594crx.aspx

Oh, and this discussion on "Is it the recording or my system":
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503372/distortion-on-massive-attack-s-angel-recording-or-system

Perhaps you'd like a dozen-plus short and to the point lens reviews:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/365610@N21/discuss/72157614866802746/

Yes, I do appreciate the effort you put into your review. I don't agree with how you conveniently gloss over the issues with the system - which yes, I do agree, is pretty good for its current price, assuming what you want is MOAR bass and you want a satellite/sub system for under $130 or whatever.

For the record, staring at me across the room right now in storage on a shelf is the sub from one Z-2300 system that my brother used to use. Now he has a pair of Klipsch KG 4s, which are pretty good for less than $200 on the used market. I used to have the Z-5300 until I learned better (and inherited a hand-me-down pair of Infinity RS-5 (1982) speakers).

As for systems in the same price range, how about buying used? Going into the local used record/CD store last summer, they had a pair of Polk Monitor 7 speakers and a Carver TFM-15CB amp, for $60 and $80, respectively. Already owning two of those Carvers I had to get that third one, and my dad has a pair of those Polks, so I knew how good they were for that price. So, total cost for that? $140. No, they won't fit on any but the biggest desk. But you get more than MOAR bass...

Look in the right places, and there's even better deals. Over at AK, you can find a guy an hour's drive away from me who bought $2000+ worth in pristine McIntosh gear at an estate sale for $175. You won't find that every day - but the fact remains, there are far better ways to go if you really appreciate the music.

My personal choice for a budget satellite/sub combo, since MOAR bass seems to be the goal here? I'd get the Dayton DTA-1/B652 combo for $58, and add a Dayton Sub HT-120 for $160. Yes, we're above the cost of the $130 Z-2300. But at $218 (plus $10 for cables), it's not an entirely unrealistic price jump. And we're talking about a huge change in performance here - not to mention modularity.

I thought that maybe you'd be above personal attacks, but I guess not. Anything to get the word out, it seems.

Sorry boss, checked your personal profile on AudioKarma, zero threads, then made a search by your name found four threads. Read them and found them exactly what you said about them --> "I've started four threads there (albeit not exactly the most helpful ones in this case - I rather prefer to help those who have started threads) - and it's not a forum I visit very often (same as here)".

Which audio forum do you visit most? I love to be a part of that forum.

Regarding your other reviews, just ok, and you need to improve on the objective part of your review. Through some info man, paste some frequency curves & some solid data. Any way you at least tried to express your feeling about the system. Full marks for that.

Now look man, I am not going to get down with you in the second's sale. I mean, I can go even further down and say :" I have got these Audio Engine 5 for free as a gift. So, since AE5 did not cost me anything, they pose a better value for money than the ludicrous $100 price tag of Z-2300."

About your final comment about getting personal attacks :

Have you ever thought of what you said in your previous posts about me :

"lol, wow, I stumbled on ...... and intentions of this "RishiGuru" guy) over on Audiokarma - which he most conveniently left missing from his links here... ..................................... EDIT: Ahh, and that thread has been closed now... apparently not even worthy of continuing. ...........................................I'd like to point out that his "blog" was only created this December and consists solely of his Z-2300 review and a related post or two....................................................The best part is that our Mr. RishiGuru claimed over at Audiokarma that this was a "cost no-object" system for the Logitech engineers to go wild with. Yeah, sure... Tell that to Arnie Nudell and Gary Christie and their IRS..."

Who started the personal attacks first? Was it me or you? Think it yourself.
 
I misunderstood your post originally. My mistake. But the OP went to the trouble of disassembling them to find out the internal components and what features they have(though I didn't understand any of that part). He didn't do all that research so that you could dismiss it with: "Real sound and Logitech, huh. Not the choice I would make for that kind of money."

I stumbled upon what looked like a professional in-depth review, and saw that people simply dismissed his work because he is new here, and don't agree with his findings or the universal acclaim that the speakers have received from IIRC 4 or 5 review sites. I have nothing to do with the OP, and have no reason to explain myself to your random accusation.

EDIT: This thread is a waste of CO2. I will no longer be looking at it, and suggest that no one comment any further on any of my remarks, as it will only increase the rate of the ozone layer's depletion. Thank you RishiGuru for the informative review, good luck to you.

Don't do that XacTactX, at least I need some O2 from you to survive. We both will help to get the Ozone layer fat again.

Well I am an IT engineer and I am in no way related to the audio world. But being an engineer I have the natural technical skills which help me to understand the technical part more clearly than the others.

I have personally found in many audio forums at around 50% of members do not understand what sound quality really is and have no idea of what is going inside the box from the technical side. They just follows their ear and think what good in their ears are the best.

The rest 35% understands what sound quality really is, but do not have the technical knowhow. The rest 15% are very special, they have both technical knowhow & have excellent perception of sound and have the ability to bridge the technical part of the audio system with what he is listening through his/her ears.

EDIT: You will also find many members in a forum making personal attacks on you. That actually shows the sign of their desperation. This members are not able to contribute to the thread they are participating in any way but are very good in making violent personal attacks.They are unable to get you in words, thoughts or unable to disapprove the point you made out. It shows their weakness and in no way highlight their strengths.

So, keep up your good work.
 
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Sorry boss, checked your personal profile on AudioKarma, zero threads, then made a search by your name found four threads. Read them and found them exactly what you said about them --> "I've started four threads there (albeit not exactly the most helpful ones in this case - I rather prefer to help those who have started threads) - and it's not a forum I visit very often (same as here)".

Which audio forum do you visit most? I love to be a part of that forum.

Regarding your other reviews, just ok, and you need to improve on the objective part of your review. Through some info man, paste some frequency curves & some solid data. Any way you at least tried to express your feeling about the system. Full marks for that.

Now look man, I am not going to get down with you in the second's sale. I mean, I can go even further down and say :" I have got these Audio Engine 5 for free as a gift. So, since AE5 did not cost me anything, they pose a better value for money than the ludicrous $100 price tag of Z-2300."

About your final comment about getting personal attacks :

Have you ever thought of what you said in your previous posts about me :

"lol, wow, I stumbled on ...... and intentions of this "RishiGuru" guy) over on Audiokarma - which he most conveniently left missing from his links here... ..................................... EDIT: Ahh, and that thread has been closed now... apparently not even worthy of continuing. ...........................................I'd like to point out that his "blog" was only created this December and consists solely of his Z-2300 review and a related post or two....................................................The best part is that our Mr. RishiGuru claimed over at Audiokarma that this was a "cost no-object" system for the Logitech engineers to go wild with. Yeah, sure... Tell that to Arnie Nudell and Gary Christie and their IRS..."

Who started the personal attacks first? Was it me or you? Think it yourself.

I'm going to go ahead right now and predict that this thread is either going to be closed relatively soon, or continue this downward spiral into oblivion... Just like over at AK.

I agree, what I said could - and perhaps should - be construed as a personal attack. But when I do a little Googling and see the exact same review posted around on multiple forums, a brand new blog that consists solely of related material, all posted by someone who seems eager to immediately discount anyone that dares oppose him - I get more than a little suspicious.

I might add that at this same time, there is someone over at Head-Fi (which by the way, is the audio forum I'm frequenting most at this time thanks to being abroad for months at a time, followed by Audiogon - where there are truly knowledgeable industry figures) who is practically spamming recommendations for Logitech systems even when it isn't appropriate (e.g. a request for ~$500 passive bookshelf speakers, bass response not a concern got a recommendation for a Z-5500). I hope you understand my suspicion here regarding all of this - although it is clear that the person over at Head-Fi is not you (or you are doing a very good job at maintaining a different personality). I don't want to accuse you of being paid for this - but I honestly have to say that I've got alarms going off in my head about this.

As for my review - and the use of frequency response curves and other measurements and statistics - well, first of all, I don't have the means to make them myself. Nor are there any contemporary reviews available online for me to take them from - like you have done (These are relatively rare speakers). Besides, that doesn't bring any new information to the table - if done right, it only presents it in a different (perhaps better) manner.

Regardless, there is a widely available white paper prepared by Infinity itself on the speakers:
http://www.davidsaudio.com/Infinity_Renaissance_Technical_Summary0001.pdf

And the manual:
http://www.davidsaudio.com/Infinity_Renaissance_Manual0001.pdf

And a technical sheet:
http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/technik/manuals/Renaissance_90_technical_sheet.pdf

And the woofer crossover (not on the technical sheet):
http://www.infinity-classics.de/inf...2/Renaissance-90/Renaissance_90_crossover.jpg

And just a general page on them with specs, photos, and links to the last two documents:
http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/models/Renaissance-series-1992/index-Renaissance.htm

Anyone who has half a brain and is looking at these speakers will find those.

No, there's no frequency response curve for the whole speaker (just the woofer, and without a dB scale), nor THD curves. But Infinity themselves went to the trouble of providing at least some of the info, in a much easier to read manner than your review. Granted, we're talking promotional literature written and edited by professionals (and the marketing department, no doubt), but it remains that they still provide far more information than almost any other company does (or did, in this case).

Anyway, my point is that an individual consumer review is not expected to provide technical information available elsewhere. If someone has the means and prerogative to test the system, then by all means do so - but again, a little copy 'n' pastin' of measurements or specs doesn't make a review objective, or even just closer to being objective. And that isn't necessarily a bad thing. There's plenty of people over at Head-Fi that are absolutely enamored with super-bright headphones, or bassy headphones, or that prefer the soundstage of good headphones over that of good speakers. I don't agree with those tastes, but because we all hear (and prefer) different things, they're not really "wrong", per se.

Oddly enough, with all this talk of objectivity, I'm firmly in the camp of cable and amp skeptics, and a proponent of blind testing. But "removing bias" and "personal preference for sound signature" are two distinct, yet perhaps sometimes confused, things.
 
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I'm going to go ahead right now and predict that this thread is either going to be closed relatively soon, or continue this downward spiral into oblivion... Just like over at AK.

I agree, what I said could - and perhaps should - be construed as a personal attack. But when I do a little Googling and see the exact same review posted around on multiple forums, a brand new blog that consists solely of related material, all posted by someone who seems eager to immediately discount anyone that dares oppose him - I get more than a little suspicious.

I might add that at this same time, there is someone over at Head-Fi (which by the way, is the audio forum I'm frequenting most at this time thanks to being abroad for months at a time, followed by Audiogon - where there are truly knowledgeable industry figures) who is practically spamming recommendations for Logitech systems even when it isn't appropriate (e.g. a request for ~$500 passive bookshelf speakers, bass response not a concern got a recommendation for a Z-5500). I hope you understand my suspicion here regarding all of this - although it is clear that the person over at Head-Fi is not you (or you are doing a very good job at maintaining a different personality). I don't want to accuse you of being paid for this - but I honestly have to say that I've got alarms going off in my head about this.

As for my review - and the use of frequency response curves and other measurements and statistics - well, first of all, I don't have the means to make them myself. Nor are there any contemporary reviews available online for me to take them from - like you have done (These are relatively rare speakers). Besides, that doesn't bring any new information to the table - if done right, it only presents it in a different (perhaps better) manner.

Regardless, there is a widely available white paper prepared by Infinity itself on the speakers:
http://www.davidsaudio.com/Infinity_Renaissance_Technical_Summary0001.pdf

And the manual:
http://www.davidsaudio.com/Infinity_Renaissance_Manual0001.pdf

And a technical sheet:
http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/technik/manuals/Renaissance_90_technical_sheet.pdf

And the woofer crossover (not on the technical sheet):
http://www.infinity-classics.de/inf...2/Renaissance-90/Renaissance_90_crossover.jpg

And just a general page on them with specs, photos, and links to the last two documents:
http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/models/Renaissance-series-1992/index-Renaissance.htm

Anyone who has half a brain and is looking at these speakers will find those.

No, there's no frequency response curve for the whole speaker (just the woofer, and without a dB scale), nor THD curves. But Infinity themselves went to the trouble of providing at least some of the info, in a much easier to read manner than your review. Granted, we're talking promotional literature written and edited by professionals (and the marketing department, no doubt), but it remains that they still provide far more information than almost any other company does (or did, in this case).

Anyway, my point is that an individual consumer review is not expected to provide technical information available elsewhere. If someone has the means and prerogative to test the system, then by all means do so - but again, a little copy 'n' pastin' of measurements or specs doesn't make a review objective, or even just closer to being objective.

Your first post, that I really enjoyed. Now thats how a real audio buff write. Good work & keep this up. Personally I have nothing against you, and I thank you for being a part of this thread.

I believe in that every person you meet, talk or write to ....... you always learn something new, and I learnt what you said were right, let stop this mindless bogus chatter about either Z-2300 is good or bad and do something more constructive.

Okay, now I have decided to upgrade my Z-2300 bass driver & satellites. Can you or anyone mention some passive bookshelves within $100 that can handle a minimum of 40W@ 8 ohms each & have RCA cabling? Also the bass driver are TangBand. Any other suggestion of 100W @ 8 ohms bass driver?.
 
I misunderstood your post originally. My mistake. But the OP went to the trouble of disassembling them to find out the internal components and what features they have(though I didn't understand any of that part). He didn't do all that research so that you could dismiss it with: "Real sound and Logitech, huh. Not the choice I would make for that kind of money."

I stumbled upon what looked like a professional in-depth review, and saw that people simply dismissed his work because he is new here, and don't agree with his findings or the universal acclaim that the speakers have received from IIRC 4 or 5 review sites. I have nothing to do with the OP, and have no reason to explain myself to your random accusation.

EDIT: This thread is a waste of CO2. I will no longer be looking at it, and suggest that no one comment any further on any of my remarks, as it will only increase the rate of the ozone layer's depletion. Thank you RishiGuru for the informative review, good luck to you.

Indepth, yes. Informative, no. Professional, no way. Professional would stick the subject and not be so laced with opinion presented as fact.
I do agree that this post is not going any where, but it never would with the way it was started, the choice of title, and the text with in the first couple posts by the OP. We have seen it before.
 
wow, someone must be really bored over their xmas break
good job trolling multiple boards

the Z2300 is good for the price, but that's a pretty cheap price...
they are far from being good speakers.
with someone who claims to have a $12,000 subwoofer (which i am claiming bullshit on), for you to possibly defend this cheap logitech system so heavily is absolutely insane.
you have absolutely nothing to prove except how much of a jerk you can be.

it's a cheap system for people who want something better than what came with their computer, that's about it.
 
Indepth, yes. Informative, no. Professional, no way. Professional would stick the subject and not be so laced with opinion presented as fact.
I do agree that this post is not going any where, but it never would with the way it was started, the choice of title, and the text with in the first couple posts by the OP. We have seen it before.

Snufykat, I have decided to upgrade my Z-2300 bass driver & satellites. Can you or anyone mention some passive bookshelves within $100 that can handle a minimum of 40W@ 8 ohms each & have RCA cabling? Also the bass driver are TangBand. Any other suggestion of 100W @ 8 ohms bass driver?.
 
wow, someone must be really bored over their xmas break
good job trolling multiple boards

the Z2300 is good for the price, but that's a pretty cheap price...
they are far from being good speakers.
with someone who claims to have a $12,000 subwoofer (which i am claiming bullshit on), for you to possibly defend this cheap logitech system so heavily is absolutely insane.
you have absolutely nothing to prove except how much of a jerk you can be.

it's a cheap system for people who want something better than what came with their computer, that's about it.

No comments on your above post.

ripken204, I have decided to upgrade my Z-2300 bass driver & satellites. Can you or anyone mention some passive bookshelves within $100 that can handle a minimum of 40W@ 8 ohms each & have RCA cabling? Also the bass driver are TangBand. Any other suggestion of 100W @ 8 ohms bass driver?
 
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i said they are good for the price... so why would i recommend something else for the same price?
 
Your first post, that I really enjoyed. Now thats how a real audio buff write. Good work & keep this up. Personally I have nothing against you, and I thank you for being a part of this thread.

I believe in that every person you meet, talk or write to ....... you always learn something new, and I learnt what you said were right, let stop this mindless bogus chatter about either Z-2300 is good or bad and do something more constructive.

Okay, now I have decided to upgrade my Z-2300 bass driver & satellites. Can you or anyone mention some passive bookshelves within $100 that can handle a minimum of 40W@ 8 ohms each & have RCA cabling? Also the bass driver are TangBand. Any other suggestion of 100W @ 8 ohms bass driver?.

You aren't limited to just speakers with RCA input - you can hook one of these up and use any passive speakers:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102959&CAWELAID=107595248

The problem is, we don't know what the crossover of the Z-2300 is like. I don't know if it even bothers to use a low-pass filter - if it doesn't, then there may be problems with boomy mid-bass. If it does, that's not so bad - but you'll probably need to EQ the sub to match the speakers because they're probably not going to match efficiency-wise.

You also still have the issue of the sub playing so high that it will remain directional, and you can't tailor the crossover point without perhaps redesigning the crossover yourself (not exactly easy). In other words, while I think your idea is interesting, I'm not sure it will work so well in practice.

Perhaps the best budget choice would be those Dayton B652 speakers I mentioned earlier. They're cheap and sound pretty good (I've found them to be bright by themselves, but they're very detailed). At $35/pair (sales go lower), it's hard to go wrong...

As for replacement woofers - there's plenty to choose from at Parts Express:
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=CAT&srchCat=847

You'd probably need to model the sub enclosure and the woofer in a sub design program to make a good match, or at least find a driver to match the specs of the stock one.

But, at this point, why not sell the whole thing and use the proceeds to pay for a better system with a normal active sub? Then you won't have crossover issues, and you'll get a much better sub than you would otherwise.

There's a point of diminishing returns for upgrading these, and it may be at a grand total of zero upgrades.
 
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i said they are good for the price... so why would i recommend something else for the same price?

I want to upgrade thats why. I believe after reading all the comments, that the satellites are masking the true ability of the amplifier.
 
RishiGuru, you've continued avoiding addressing my question (from two separate posts, now this being a third) about what in the world justifies this being called a "cost no-object" system:

I'll state that question again: How can you possibly justify/claim that the Z-2300 is a "cost no-object" system? I take that from the following:

When Logitech introduced Z-2300 back in 2004, it was a THX certified premium quality top of the range product. The Logitech engineers in the lab where given a clear goal i.e. to create the ultimate 2.1 multimedia speaker system in the world. They were not concerned about the price, they were more concerned about the performance & quality which lead in using premium quality components, be it electronic components, speakers used, wooden casings of the subwoofers, plastic casings of the satellites and even the wires used to connect the components. Price was never an issue, performance was. This single mindedness of the engineers produced a unique product, and Z-2300 was born.
 
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