New GPU3 Projects, Fermi Only: 6800 and 6811

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Tobit

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - March 2010/May 2011
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Welp here we go folks. There will be two new GPU3/Fermi projects, 6800 and 6811, on advmethods soon:

P6800 is a second-stage sampling of the amyloid beta peptide.
P6811 is Stanfords first attempt to sample the configurations of a prion protein

NOTE that P6811 has the largest number of atoms ever (2150 atoms) for a GPU3/Fermi project. Donors with low/medium-end GPUs will likely notice a significant difference in PPD since low/medium-end GPUs may not perform well relative to high-end GPUs as atom size increases.

Points and Deadlines:

P6800 -- 1298 points, preferred deadline 4 days, final deadline 10 days
P6811 -- 7202 points, preferred deadline 13 days, final deadline 18 days

Tobit's p6811 PPD Estimates (Overclocked):

GTS450 - 7000 PPD
GTX460 - 9400 PPD
GTX470 - 14K PPD
GTX480 - 14.5K PPD ** stock clocks

EDIT: Also note that 6811 runs about 10 degrees warmer, at least on 450's and 460's, due to the heavy shader loading.
 
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well so much for that I guess

so if we dont run advmethods we can keep our PPD? lol
 
Tobit, this might be a silly question, do you have any GTX 465 numbers by any chance? There seems to be a significant cost difference between that model and the 470 in my area from preliminary retailer observations. Also, I read that some 465s can be modded effectively to 470 specs.
 
APOLLO said:
Tobit, this might be a silly question, do you have any GTX 465 numbers by any chance?
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No, I don't think there are very many 465 folders out there. I was able, thanks to several on here, to cover everything else though.
 
Holy CRAP. A 7202 point GPU3 WU?

Any numbers on a GTX580? I've got the upgrade bug and am contemplating (not for a couple of weeks) upgrading my 3xGTX285's with 2xGTX580's.
 
capreppy said:
Any numbers on a GTX580? I've got the upgrade bug and am contemplating (not for a couple of weeks) upgrading my 3xGTX285's with 2xGTX580's.
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No, way too early for 580 numbers. However, I would estimate 16K PPD based on other numbers I've seen.
 
Tobit said:
No, way too early for 580 numbers. However, I would estimate 16K PPD based on other numbers I've seen.
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That is only 1500 PpD more than what you listed above for the GTX480 :confused:
Only 10% increase in PpD....color me a sad panda
 
capreppy said:
That is only 1500 PpD more than what you listed above for the GTX480 :confused:
Only 10% increase in PpD....color me a sad panda
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Well, at release time the highest performance cards are usually a poor choice buying for purely folding reasons. PPD per dollar figures always come out better for mid-range cards. If you're thinking of playing a lot of recent games, then it's worth investing that much money in buying two GTX 580s, but only if.
 
i just got hit with one of these, a 6811. On my GTX460 768, Failed several times with a NANs detected on GPU until i backed off on my core and shader clocks, was running 897/1794 now down to 887/1774. really raised my gpu temps up to 65c from 55c, cranked on the fan to 80% to keep it at 65c. This thing does kill the ppd, down to 11674ppd from 16000.
 
APOLLO said:
Well, at release time the highest performance cards are usually a poor choice buying for purely folding reasons. PPD per dollar figures always come out better for mid-range cards. If you're thinking of playing a lot of recent games, then it's worth investing that much money in buying two GTX 580s, but only if.
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Yeah, I was thinking of buying a 580 for a high-end beta testing card but thinking of going with a 470 now for the role since an OC'd 470 can equal stock 480 folding performance. Pricing is really nice on 470's right now.
 
well i predicted the gts 450 would be a worthless buy in a couple months. but what my prediction failed was the points. P6811 -- 7202 points, holy mother of effing god. 7202 points. what the hell. but at least the points are scaled correctly now. welcome back to the real world people that wasted money on the gts 450.


Tobit said:
Yeah, I was thinking of buying a 580 for a high-end beta testing card but thinking of going with a 470 now for the role since an OC'd 470 can equal stock 480 folding performance. Pricing is really nice on 470's right now.
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it can but it generally uses more power then the gtx 480 at stock let alone overclocked to match gtx 480 performance. though most of the changes in the GTX 580(lack of dual precision units) shouldn't have an effect on F@H performance since its still a single precision project.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
what the hell. but at least the points are scaled correctly now.
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I'd have to agree. 450/460GPUs should never have been getting the 14K to 16K PPD they have been getting in the first place. On low atom 925 point WUs, a 460 actually outperforms a 480 and that is just wrong. In early beta testing on new higher atom units, PG has finally recognized this unintended "bonus" for low end cards. I expect some changes in the future.

Unfortunately, people have been getting this unintended bonus for so long it's going to be a tough pill for some to swallow.
 
APOLLO said:
Well, at release time the highest performance cards are usually a poor choice buying for purely folding reasons. PPD per dollar figures always come out better for mid-range cards. If you're thinking of playing a lot of recent games, then it's worth investing that much money in buying two GTX 580s, but only if.
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The GTX580 would be for my sig rig which is where I play my games. So yes, it would be for the latest games (and since my wife has actually given me approval, an nVidia Surround Setup to really push the GTX580's).

I skipped the entire GTX400 series cards so my sig rig is due for an upgrade. I'll wait a few weeks (or a month) before I do any heavy upgrades. My sig rig is also likely to go from a single i7 920 to an SR-2 w/X5650's (or the L5639 since they seem to be doing well).
 
Tobit said:
I'd have to agree. 450/460GPUs should never have been getting the 14K to 16K PPD they have been getting in the first place. On low atom 925 point WUs, a 460 actually outperforms a 480 and that is just wrong. In early beta testing on new higher atom units, PG has finally recognized this unintended "bonus" for low end cards. I expect some changes in the future.

Unfortunately, people have been getting this unintended bonus for so long it's going to be a tough pill for some to swallow.
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yep i agree.. its going to turn into a bitch fest here and the FF about losing so many points but anyone that has been folding long enough knew this was coming. hell i've been saying it since day 1 when people started showing PPD numbers. im just surprised it happened this quick. usually takes PG 5 or 6 months before they actually do something about it.

bet all those people that replaced their GTX 260's and 275's with GTS 450's and GTX 460's are now starting to regret it. but oh well thats the life of being a folder.
 
Looks like I've got a 6800 running on my Galaxy 470 (stock clocks).


hfm_p6800.jpg
 
had one of my GTS450's finish and pick up one of these WU's... ~7KPPD... made sure to turn off advmethods on the others and they are picking up 109xx projects and showing decent numbers

so there is some hope for now
 
APOLLO said:
Tobit, this might be a silly question, do you have any GTX 465 numbers by any chance? There seems to be a significant cost difference between that model and the 470 in my area from preliminary retailer observations. Also, I read that some 465s can be modded effectively to 470 specs.
Click to expand...

Tobit said:
No, I don't think there are very many 465 folders out there. I was able, thanks to several on here, to cover everything else though.
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Probably 1-2k behind the 470 numbers from what I've seen with my 465s, they overclock pretty darn well, should have no issue getting at least 800 clock (1600 shader) on the stock cooler at stock voltages.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
well i predicted the gts 450 would be a worthless buy in a couple months.
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Yeah, I remember that.

but what my prediction failed was the points. P6811 -- 7202 points, holy mother of effing god. 7202 points. what the hell..
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Which means this WU must have slow TPFs and take relatively long to finish. With the much higher associated temps, it would be a pain to get EUEs mid way through the WU not knowing if your clocks are stable enough.

Tobit said:
I'd have to agree. 450/460GPUs should never have been getting the 14K to 16K PPD they have been getting in the first place. On low atom 925 point WUs, a 460 actually outperforms a 480 and that is just wrong. In early beta testing on new higher atom units, PG has finally recognized this unintended "bonus" for low end cards. I expect some changes in the future.
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All the more reason to see what the heck a GTX 465 accomplishes because it's a nice 'in between' card that's nestled above the 460 and below the 470 both in specs and pricing. The 470s are too expensive here, but some of the 465s are within earshot of the 460s making them a more interesting prospect. They are also GF100 cards and I know on some brands you can unlock extra shaders to turn them into 470s...

Unfortunately, people have been getting this unintended bonus for so long it's going to be a tough pill for some to swallow.
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And I expect lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth...
 
ND40oz said:
Probably 1-2k behind the 470 numbers from what I've seen with my 465s, they overclock pretty darn well, should have no issue getting at least 800 clock (1600 shader) on the stock cooler at stock voltages.
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Just saw your post...awesome. Thanks for the info, very interesting indeed and close to what I surmised myself. :cool:
 
I just got this too on my GTX 460. It is pegging my 460 much much harder than the other WUs, making my card 10C hotter than the rest. It is also making my computer kinda sluggish lol, even HD video playback is going a bit slow. I turned down my overclock from 875MHz to 840MHz just in case because I don't want to lose this WU due to instability that haven't really arose from the other WUs.

It is pretty bad lol . TPF of 9:08 with GTX 460 at 840MHz (downclocked from my usual 875MHz cuz I am afraid of it being unstable for this WU since this WU is pushing it crazily hard, 63C -> 73C)

6811.jpg
 
APOLLO said:
All the more reason to see what the heck a GTX 465 accomplishes because it's a nice 'in between' card that's nestled above the 460 and below the 470 both in specs and pricing. The 470s are too expensive here, but some of the 465s are within earshot of the 460s making them a more interesting prospect. They are also GF100 cards and I know on some brands you can unlock extra shaders to turn them into 470s...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't expect any of the current cards in retail to unlock, it looks like that may have just been the first release versions that nVidia hadn't binned yet.

I paid less for my GTX 465s then GTX 460 1GB are still selling for, well worth the price if you don't mind the heat output, at $185 a piece, they were a hell of a deal.
 
dmaine said:
i just got hit with one of these, a 6811. On my GTX460 768, Failed several times with a NANs detected on GPU until i backed off on my core and shader clocks, was running 897/1794 now down to 887/1774. really raised my gpu temps up to 65c from 55c, cranked on the fan to 80% to keep it at 65c. This thing does kill the ppd, down to 11674ppd from 16000.
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Same here, the 450 got hit with a 6800 and went unstable (1900 shaders).
 
Before all hell breaks lose, let me just state that it had been mentioned by myself and one other beta tester for the assignment servers to only issue these to high-end GPUs. Vijay actually thought, in general, that it would be a good idea with the super-big atom units such as 6811. However, upon further review of the assignment server code, it was not something they could easily implement now in time for 6811. This is likely something we might see down the road.
 
APOLLO said:
All the more reason to see what the heck a GTX 465 accomplishes because it's a nice 'in between' card that's nestled above the 460 and below the 470 both in specs and pricing. The 470s are too expensive here, but some of the 465s are within earshot of the 460s making them a more interesting prospect. They are also GF100 cards and I know on some brands you can unlock extra shaders to turn them into 470s...
Click to expand...


the 465's a decent card until you put everything else into it. uses nearly the same amount of power as a gtx 470/480. runs as hot as a gtx 470/480. but doesnt get gtx 470/480 performance so. is it really worth buying instead of just getting a gtx 470 or 480?

but seeing as how the gtx 480 is still doing 14.5k PPD on these WU's they are no where near reaching 480 SP's. they have a long way to go.

as far as the unlocking goes there were only about 10k cards made that had the ability to be unlocked and those are all long gone by now.


Tobit said:
Before all hell breaks lose, let me just state that it had been mentioned by myself and one other beta tester for the assignment servers to only issue these to high-end GPUs. Vijay actually thought, in general, that it would be a good idea with the super-big atom units such as 6811. However, upon further review of the assignment server code, it was not something they could easily implement now in time for 6811. This is likely something we might see down the road.
Click to expand...

that would be quite interesting to see if they get it working.
 
capreppy said:
I skipped the entire GTX400 series cards so my sig rig is due for an upgrade. I'll wait a few weeks (or a month) before I do any heavy upgrades.
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I haven't bought anything Fermi yet either and likely will wait for next year when most of the dust that's being kicked up now settles. One great thing about the GTX 580 is the new vapor chamber cooler that nVidia installed for the GF 110 series. It's supposed to be a vast improvement according to the reviews. With these new WUs and the fact folding is very hard on video cards in general, you will see benefits there. I am very interested to know what the temps will be like with this new cooler design. :cool:

sirmonkey1985 said:
the 465's a decent card until you put everything else into it. uses nearly the same amount of power as a gtx 470/480. runs as hot as a gtx 470/480. but doesnt get gtx 470/480 performance so. is it really worth buying instead of just getting a gtx 470 or 480?
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Of course it is, the price difference between a 465 and 480 is astronomical (more than double here), and even between a typical 465 vs most models of 470 the price difference is appreciable, which multiplies rapidly as soon as you figure in two card purchases or more. I can't afford the higher end models even as used hardware. What will be the determining factor is what the performance will end up looking like with the new WUs and the GTX 465...
 
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Got those wu´s (6800 and 6811) on my gts 450,it is manageable I guess,estimate "normal" ppd around 8-9000 which is what I got on 611-wu´s,so it looses 1-2000 per card compared to normal results,far from 14000-15000 on 911/925 though.

My main reason to get them was to get the powerusage in better shape anyway,still need to decide what to do with my remaining 3 gpu2-cards which draws much more than gts 450,one is a gt 220 which is dedicated to physx,thought of replace it with gt 430 and that would double up normal ppd from 2k to 4k,and then either 2 medium cards or one good,estimate 7-9k on gts 450 as it looks now,the 9xx-party is apparently over.
Ah well it was fun as long it lasted :p
 
SpeedyVV said:
Don't like these! :(
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12K on a 6800 isn't bad and is actually what that card should really be running at. Again, our 460's were never really supposed to see the 16K PPD we are accustomed to.

If you don't like a 6800, wait til you get a 6811. :p
 
Tobit said:
If you don't like a 6800, wait til you get a 6811. :p
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Now you got me curious.... I want a 6811 to see what kind of TPF my 460 will get.

Do you have any ratio numbers between a 6800 and 6811?

EDIT: I mean ratio for TPF.

Also, would you recommend that we take out -advmethods for lower end cards like the 460 and leave these biggies for 480s and 580s?
 
SpeedyVV said:
And for the 6800 on same, what do you get?
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Only about 10K PPD. However, some folks have said to me that they get more PPD on 1GB 460's compared to 768MB GPUs so maybe they are onto something here with these new WUs since you are getting 12K PPD.
 
folding_rejects said:
Got those wu´s (6800 and 6811) on my gts 450,it is manageable I guess,estimate "normal" ppd around 8-9000 which is what I got on 611-wu´s,so it looses 1-2000 per card compared to normal results,far from 14000-15000 on 911/925 though.

My main reason to get them was to get the powerusage in better shape anyway,still need to decide what to do with my remaining 3 gpu2-cards which draws much more than gts 450,one is a gt 220 which is dedicated to physx,thought of replace it with gt 430 and that would double up normal ppd from 2k to 4k,and then either 2 medium cards or one good,estimate 7-9k on gts 450 as it looks now,the 9xx-party is apparently over.
Ah well it was fun as long it lasted :p
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lol just get a gtx 275 and use the gtx 450 as a physX card :D get 10k PPD with the 275 with a decent overclock and get way more performance gaming wise than the gts 450 :p
 
Tobit said:
Only about 10K PPD. However, some folks have said to me that they get more PPD on 1GB 460's compared to 768MB GPUs so maybe they are onto something here with these new WUs since you are getting 12K PPD.
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But I am OCing higher than you, so maybe a little more PPD only.
 
I have two GTX470s at 800/1600 clocks running 6800s at home

One appears to be unstable since it's now showing 5000 ppd. The other is holding steady at 12000 ppd.
 
6811 on my 450 at 920/1840 seeing around 14min frames and 7700 ppd. really taking a beating on these. way better points than my gpu2 card for the wattage use so i cant complain. close ppd to a 275 with over 50w less used.

first gpu3 project i have come across thats pushes my 450 to 29c (watercooled). on the 611's it topped at 25c.
 
I folded a 6800 and I'm currently working on a 6811. I saw about 10.5k PPD with the 6800 and 10.6k PPD with the 6811, which is a bit better than I get from 611s. I've been expecting this sort of thing to happen, and right now I have no problem with it and I'm perfectly happy with the PPD I'm seeing.
 
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