Fermi Refresh! Full Top/bottom 3 months after

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Lord_Exodia

Supreme [H]ardness
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UPDATED 10/25/2010!!
So Originally this thread was started because I made a mistake in reading the article about Nvidia vows full top to bottom release 3 Months after new GPU releases. I thought this meant when they release their refresh, a still unknown GTX 580 that they would refresh their entire lineup including GTX 460 GTs450 GT430 etc.. I eventually understood what was being said more accurately Later in the thread after debating with some people I discovered that they meant on the NEW GPU families like Kepler etc.. Many doubted the GTX 580 would ever come out and after much back and forth on 10/4 I made a bold statement which I will quote below

Posted 10/4 by Myself
Lord_Exodia said:
I have a feeling what is coming is not a GF 100 at all or a GF 104 or GF 108. I believe it will be 40nm but something new, perhaps a new gpu altogether GF 110 maybe. a full 512sp, fixed memory controller, better performnace/watt, runs cooler than GF 100, Non crippled, But meh what do I know. I'm just guessing. My gut usually is accurate though. Fermi was delayed as Nvidia played with GF100 for a while. Whose to say their 2nd team wasn't working on a refresh from GF 100 launch time only to have the GF 100 team move on to Kepler.
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At this time there was no rumor I was aware of, regarding a GF110. In fact I never heard the name before. Days after I said this the card info leaked out like crazy and that statement above was VERY close to what is coming soon. Prediction 1

About a week later unofficial roadmaps began showing that nvidia will release a low end GF119 GPU in Q1,

http://www.ozone3d.net/public/jegx/201010/nvidia_2011_gpu_roadmap.jpg

Later GTX 580 was confirmed

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7600/gtx5803d.png

Then hints of a Unconfirmed GF 114 and GF 119 confirmed in the Driver

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5271/captureyut.png

Now the latest rumor

http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/item/20588-geforce-„475“-is-gf114-based

Whereas, GF 110 is a high end Refresh of GF 100, GF114 is a mainstream GPU Refresh of GF104. Rumors are beginning to say GTX 560 will be done with this GPU and it may come out this year or early next year.

Now the GF 119 in the roadmap is low end.

So If all of this comes as planned. GF110 late December GF 114/119 by end of Q1 then the Thread title, although based on a mistake I made has accidentally become Prediction 2 Time will tell

Based on what has been going on I believe the below may be the outcome of all of this. This would be Prediction 3 and the cherry on top

GF110 GTX 580 & GTX 570
GF114 GTX 560 & GTX 565
GF119 GTs 550 GT 530
 
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uh.. why would AMD lose 6 month head start when the 6900 series is coming out as a HIGH-END hardware in Jan.. which they will still have a head start if it outperform the fermi refresh..
 
shansoft said:
uh.. why would AMD lose 6 month head start when the 6900 series is coming out as a HIGH-END hardware in Jan.. which they will still have a head start if it outperform the fermi refresh..
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Currently they have been out for 1 year at high end dx 11 nvidia 6 months. When they release the 6000 high end lets say december or january, and nvidia releases fermi refresh in Jan-february instead of 6 months difference like now. That's all I was saying

ALSO nvidia didn't say fermi refresh for Jan-early feb that is me guestimating. <- I know no such word. This means the cards will be less than 1 month apart and at the most almost 2 months only.

Oh and there is no one to say what is going to out perform what. I'd say it's probably a sure bet nvidia will outperform 6000 series in SLi and multi card, single card crown is up for grabs though.
 
Hope the refresh is significant in some way (much less power requirements, less heat generated, significant performance improvement) otherwise I'll just wait for Kepler.
 
Nice to know. But three months is a long time... especially since ATi and NVIDIA aren't releasing at the same time. Don't hold off on buying a new card for three months. ATi will release something great in next month, then nvidia will release something in three months, then ATi will launch something in six months... it's never ending.

Honestly, with both companies releasing out of sync, I think this is going to be a big win for us, consumers. There will always be something better much less than a year away... instead of having the best card for for a year, they could be practically halving the lifespan of the best of the best. Maybe prices will drop a little to compensate.
 
siliconnerd said:
Based on what? :confused:
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Nothing other than my Forum famous Crystal Ball (History there)

J/K the article states the next few months. I say 3 months is a few, 6 months is long enough for them to say in the next 6 months. Next few months... makes you wonder :)
 
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even with late products seemingly getting their launches out of sync, they will re-sync. there are ideal times to sell things, and they will always align to them.
 
I honestly don't see the point of refreshing the cards when they're releasing new GPUs in second half of 2011. Unless it's a GF104 fully decked out matching the 480 or at least surpassing the 470 and it's cheaper to produce I just don't see the point.

It does suck that they're (AMD/NV) releasing further apart. I would like to replace the 470.
 
This thread is crap. I like the title, "...Full fermi refresh 3 months after". Three months after what? After you post this thread? After tomorrow? After Christmas? LOL.

Not to mention the Xbit article only quotes a Techreport article where the exact quote is as follows:

As before, the firm aims to do a top-to-bottom refresh of its GPU lineup, whenever it introduces a new generation of GPUs, within about three months. Huang admitted the Fermi generation has taken longer than he'd like because of some challenges in producing the first chips.
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So, Scotts telling you Nvidia plans to launch a refresh 3 months after... well 3 months after Fermi announcement is December 2009. 3 months after Fermi launch is June 2010, and 3 months after Fermi availablility is July 2010. We're now approaching October 2010. Maybe he means 3 months after AMD releases new products, they will attempt a refresh.

Wake up, it's smoke & mirrors.... Do you not remember the famous, "See this, this puppy is Fermi." line?

Lol, suckers.
 
"Jen-Hsun Huang, the chief executive officer of Nvidia, said at a press conference during GPU Technology Conference (GTC) that the company would ramp up top-to-bottom family of graphics chips with new architectures in three months time, reports Tech Report web-site."

that means when nvidia releases new cards they will release 480, 470, 460, 450, 440, 430, and a 420 all with in three months. something they havent been able to do for years.

"The introductions of major Nvidia GPU architectures, such as Kepler and Maxwell, will be aligned with availability of new process technologies, which occur every 18 - 24 months. However, the company also plans to update its lineups with enhanced architectures in between major launches. As a result, next year the company plans to introduce new products based on improved versions of Fermi architecture (e.g., Fermi+)."

ok let me get this strait. kepler in 2011 right? how is nvidia going to finish getting out their current lineup of gps, and refresh them, before kepler? i dont think there will be a gf100 refresh. the time and money it will take to refresh the gf 100 with kepler months away, i dont see it worth it to nvidia. unless they do a refresh with no changes to the gpu cores but clock speed (that is possible).

the point i think that this is trying to get at is in future gpu releases nvidia plans to release a new gpu lineup from top to bottom in three months. between gpus (kepler, maxwell) they plan on doing a refresh.
 
Lord_Exodia said:
For those that haven't read this already

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/..._Up_of_New_Architectures_in_Three_Months.html

What I gather from this is that Nvidia will be releasing fermi refresh within the next few months, They have committed to have a full top to bottom lineup of refresh cards out within 3 months of the high end fermi refresh launch.

So those who purchased GTs 450/GTX 460 those cards will be replaced with refreshed models within the next few months.

This article does not mention anything about when Fermi refresh will be out, I believe it'll be out in January-early February.


So by that timeline it looks like AMD will lose it's 6 month head start on high-end dx 11 and maintain only a 6 month head start on mainstream solutions. I expect GTs 450s and GTX 460s to be priced aggressively when the mainstream 6000 series cards launch in the next few weeks. If you dont have a terrible gaming itch you need to scratch, hold on for a few weeks, things are gonna get interesting starting with AMD's upcoming toys ;)
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do you even read the article? if you did how did you get that informationn out of it?
 
jaredpace said:
This thread is crap. I like the title, "...Full fermi refresh 3 months after". Three months after what? After you post this thread? After tomorrow? After Christmas? LOL.

Not to mention the Xbit article only quotes a Techreport article where the exact quote is as follows:



So, Scotts telling you Nvidia plans to launch a refresh 3 months after... well 3 months after Fermi announcement is December 2009. 3 months after Fermi launch is June 2010, and 3 months after Fermi availablility is July 2010. We're now approaching October 2010. Maybe he means 3 months after AMD releases new products, they will attempt a refresh.

Wake up, it's smoke & mirrors.... Do you not remember the famous, "See this, this puppy is Fermi." line?

Lol, suckers.
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Jared, If you read the article it states that The Fermi refresh (fermi +) is due out in the next few months AND nvidia CEO commits to releasing a FULL TOP-to-Bottom lineup within 3 months thereasfter.

So If fermi refresh is coming out in a few months (I take it 3months) Then that means full refreshes of GT420/GTs 450/GTX460 3 months after that meaning in the next 6 months for the 2nd batch of gen 2 fermi. I expect the first fermi refresh launch to have the GTX 480 and GTX 470 replacements.

I think you neglected to read my opening post
 
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tricky0502 said:
"The introductions of major Nvidia GPU architectures, such as Kepler and Maxwell, will be aligned with availability of new process technologies, which occur every 18 - 24 months. However, the company also plans to update its lineups with enhanced architectures in between major launches. As a result, next year the company plans to introduce new products based on improved versions of Fermi architecture (e.g., Fermi+)."
Click to expand...



tricky0502 said:
ok let me get this strait. kepler in 2011 right? how is nvidia going to finish getting out their current lineup of gps, and refresh them, before kepler? i dont think there will be a gf100 refresh. the time and money it will take to refresh the gf 100 with kepler months away, i dont see it worth it to nvidia. unless they do a refresh with no changes to the gpu cores but clock speed (that is possible).
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I do not believe Kepler will make it until December 2011 or early quarter 4 in the earliest. We still have 12-13 Months from that. Plenty of time for a refresh. Remember Fermi was not released in it's full glory. It was cut back due to several issues. A full 512SP parrt never made it out. From my understanding nvidia has been working on a refresh for some time. They have not started just after this announcement. Also theiry engineers are working on Kepler already, chances are this refresh is almost finalized otherwise why move on to Kepler.


tricky0502 said:
the point i think that this is trying to get at is in future gpu releases nvidia plans to release a new gpu lineup from top to bottom in three months. between gpus (kepler, maxwell) they plan on doing a refresh.
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Possibly but I also gather that the refresh is coming in the next few months and they will release a full refresh from top of the line to bottom of the line 3 months after as supposed to high end then middle end 8 months after launch then low end 11 months after launch etc.. like they did with the first Fermi launch
 
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Lord_Exodia said:
For those that haven't read this already

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/..._Up_of_New_Architectures_in_Three_Months.html

What I gather from this is that Nvidia will be releasing fermi refresh within the next few months, They have committed to have a full top to bottom lineup of refresh cards out within 3 months of the high end fermi refresh launch.

So those who purchased GTs 450/GTX 460 those cards will be replaced with refreshed models within the next few months.

This article does not mention anything about when Fermi refresh will be out, I believe it'll be out in January-early February.

So by that timeline it looks like AMD will lose it's 6 month head start on high-end dx 11 and maintain only a 6 month head start on mainstream solutions. I expect GTs 450s and GTX 460s to be priced aggressively when the mainstream 6000 series cards launch in the next few weeks. If you dont have a terrible gaming itch you need to scratch, hold on for a few weeks, things are gonna get interesting starting with AMD's upcoming toys ;)
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well I am going to hope that your right, we need some real competition here. but nvidia vowing something doesn't make it so. at least not til they regain some creditability. hopefully they learned their lessons and removed most of that GPGPU crap and such. I would like to see what a real GF100 type gaming card could do. (without the added baggage or fab issues)
 
Lord_Exodia said:
I do not believe Kepler will make it until December 2011 or early quarter 4 in the earliest. We still have 12-13 Months from that. Plenty of time for a refresh. Remember Fermi was not released in it's full glory. It was cut back due to several issues. A full 512SP parrt never made it out. From my understanding nvidia has been working on a refresh for some time. They have not started just after this announcement. Also theiry engineers are working on Kepler already, chances are this refresh is almost finalized otherwise why move on to Kepler.
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It would be way too little too late to release a Fermi 512 SP part now. Even if performance would scale perfectly by the number of SPs, 32 more SPs, or a single cluster more only amounts to a 6% performance increase. The 6000 series will easily eclipse the 400 series performance by a significantly larger margin than that. And that is due out sometime in October/November.

The only reason a Fermi refresh would make sense for Nvidia is if they were to make design changes such that it A) Is more economical to produce Fermi+ and B) shows siginficant performance gains over original Fermi architecture. There is no point in releasing Fermi+ if it doesn't match or exceed the performance of the 6000 series which will already have been released at that point in time. Although I"m not opposed to seeing a Fermi refresh, I am skeptical at how much of a performance gain we'd see without Nvidia making SIGNIFICANT changes to Fermi architecture.
 
vjcsmoke said:
It would be way too little too late to release a Fermi 512 SP part now. Even if performance would scale perfectly by the number of SPs, 32 more SPs, or a single cluster more only amounts to a 6% performance increase. The 6000 series will easily eclipse the 400 series performance by a significantly larger margin than that. And that is due out sometime in October/November.

The only reason a Fermi refresh would make sense for Nvidia is if they were to make design changes such that it A) Is more economical to produce Fermi+ and B) shows siginficant performance gains over original Fermi architecture. There is no point in releasing Fermi+ if it doesn't match or exceed the performance of the 6000 series which will already have been released at that point in time. Although I"m not opposed to seeing a Fermi refresh, I am skeptical at how much of a performance gain we'd see without Nvidia making SIGNIFICANT changes to Fermi architecture.
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I agree with everything you posted 100% I think it will be more than a 512SP part. I think the memory controller is fixed, Much faster RAM and 2gb cards probably as well, cheaper to make over-all etc.. Not sure what the hell is coming but It would need to be more than just a 512sp part that's for sure
 
vjcsmoke said:
It would be way too little too late to release a Fermi 512 SP part now. Even if performance would scale perfectly by the number of SPs, 32 more SPs, or a single cluster more only amounts to a 6% performance increase. The 6000 series will easily eclipse the 400 series performance by a significantly larger margin than that. And that is due out sometime in October/November.

The only reason a Fermi refresh would make sense for Nvidia is if they were to make design changes such that it A) Is more economical to produce Fermi+ and B) shows siginficant performance gains over original Fermi architecture. There is no point in releasing Fermi+ if it doesn't match or exceed the performance of the 6000 series which will already have been released at that point in time. Although I"m not opposed to seeing a Fermi refresh, I am skeptical at how much of a performance gain we'd see without Nvidia making SIGNIFICANT changes to Fermi architecture.
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I think they will get better then that. look at how the performance of the 460GTX went. and its still a crippled chip. If they clean up the chip and get the clocks fixed I think we will see a much more competitive product. or at least I hope. remember that a lot of their issue was trying to make it do everything under the sun, and in the end it did just it didn't' do anything well.
 
Call me a cynic, but in the 8 years I've been paying attention, the only time a company *ever* talks about it's future products is when it knows it will be too late to compete with what the competition either already has out or will have out soon.

8800 GTX - not a peep about it before launch.
GTX 280 - nothing but rumors before launch
GTX 480 - talked about like crazy, was waaaay late.

Or for ATI:
2900XT - I seem to remember a lot of hype and talk about it before it came out, I think some of that was official
3xxx - I don't remember there even being any rumors about this
48xx - nothing before it launch, but damn was it one hell of a launch
58xx - ditto
 
jaredpace said:
This thread is crap. I like the title, "...Full fermi refresh 3 months after". Three months after what? After you post this thread? After tomorrow? After Christmas? LOL.

Not to mention the Xbit article only quotes a Techreport article where the exact quote is as follows:



So, Scotts telling you Nvidia plans to launch a refresh 3 months after... well 3 months after Fermi announcement is December 2009. 3 months after Fermi launch is June 2010, and 3 months after Fermi availablility is July 2010. We're now approaching October 2010. Maybe he means 3 months after AMD releases new products, they will attempt a refresh.

Wake up, it's smoke & mirrors.... Do you not remember the famous, "See this, this puppy is Fermi." line?

Lol, suckers.
Click to expand...

i feel dumberer for reading this thread. why would they refresh the gf 100 chips? there is way too much wrong with that chip where a refresh cant fix. the 460 is a good chip selling well, why would they refresh that chip when it is only 2 months old. and if you are thinking they are going to release a 512sp 480 good luck with that. you know why there isnt a 512sp 480? not because they cant make it (well not in great volume) but because it the power draw is off the charts.
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=25876
 
kllrnohj said:
Call me a cynic, but in the 8 years I've been paying attention, the only time a company *ever* talks about it's future products is when it knows it will be too late to compete with what the competition either already has out or will have out soon.
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I suppose you've never heard of AMD and Intel? Nvidia's market isn't just teenagers with Christmas money any more. The people they're targeting need to understand what's around the corner as well, which is why Intel and AMD talk about their product roadmaps months/years in advance.
 
Sweet...if that refresh does come out as expected than my 2nd job just might pick up a bit. Go nVidia!
 
Jen-Hsun Huang, the chief executive officer of Nvidia, said at a press conference during GPU Technology Conference (GTC) that the company would ramp up top-to-bottom family of graphics chips with new architectures in three months time...
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Fermi has been "ramping" since September 2009, I have a very difficult time believing anything JHH says at this point.
 
tricky0502 said:
i feel dumberer for reading this thread. why would they refresh the gf 100 chips? there is way too much wrong with that chip where a refresh cant fix. the 460 is a good chip selling well, why would they refresh that chip when it is only 2 months old. and if you are thinking they are going to release a 512sp 480 good luck with that. you know why there isnt a 512sp 480? not because they cant make it (well not in great volume) but because it the power draw is off the charts.
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=25876
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Uh...GF104 (GTX 460) was a refresh of the GF100 design...cut the die in half, add a few features, and here we go with a Fermi design that works.
 
night_2004 said:
Uh...GF104 (GTX 460) was a refresh of the GF100 design...cut the die in half, add a few features, and here we go with a Fermi design that works.
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do you think when nividia designed the gf100 they only designed one gpu? no they had a full line up, gf100, gf104, gf106 and gf108. the gf104 is not a refresh, it was planned forn the start. normally that card would have been released closer to the launch of the gf100.
 
night_2004 said:
Uh...GF104 (GTX 460) was a refresh of the GF100 design...cut the die in half, add a few features, and here we go with a Fermi design that works.
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they didn't add features, the removed the ones that don't do much for games. and we still don't know what it can do yet as Nvidia still has not released a non crippled version of the chip.

and works is a relative term. it still cost them as much to make as a 5850 but has to be priced far lower. while that is a big win for the consumer I doubt Nvidia is happy about it.
 
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Actually they added full HDMI bit streaming support on the GF104 and GF106 at the very least.
 
Revdarian said:
Actually they added full HDMI bit streaming support on the GF104 and GF106 at the very least.
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hum, I thought that wasn't dependent on the GPU itself. in other words I think (I need to double check that) but its the board that does the audio support.
 
Aww man here starts the rumor mill. I love when this stuff happens :D You guys thought I was pulling this out of my ass well here is more speculation. Seems that nvidia might try a sneak attack Q4 this year. The short article talks about it probably being early 2011 probably right after the 68xx/69xx launch. Those looking to get 67xx should just jump right in but those planning on getting 68xx/69xx should wait and see what nvidia has in store.

Check it out

http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/item/20312-fermi-mid-life-kicker-comes-in-40nm

Oh and remember nvidia vows that after the launch of fermi refresh (1.5, fermi+) whatever you wanna call it that they will release an entire top to bottom refresh 3 months after.

Fudo and his inside spy's are at it agaiin :D
 
Lord_Exodia said:
Aww man here starts the rumor mill. I love when this stuff happens :D You guys thought I was pulling this out of my ass well here is more speculation. Seems that nvidia might try a sneak attack Q4 this year. The short article talks about it probably being early 2011 probably right after the 68xx/69xx launch. Those looking to get 67xx should just jump right in but those planning on getting 68xx/69xx should wait and see what nvidia has in store.

Check it out

http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/item/20312-fermi-mid-life-kicker-comes-in-40nm

Oh and remember nvidia vows that after the launch of fermi refresh (1.5, fermi+) whatever you wanna call it that they will release an entire top to bottom refresh 3 months after.

Fudo and his inside spy's are at it agaiin :D
Click to expand...


or maybe ill make up my own mind instead of listening to some one in a forum saying what i should and shouldn't do, thank you very much..
 
Lord_Exodia said:
Aww man here starts the rumor mill. I love when this stuff happens :D You guys thought I was pulling this out of my ass well here is more speculation. Seems that nvidia might try a sneak attack Q4 this year. The short article talks about it probably being early 2011 probably right after the 68xx/69xx launch. Those looking to get 67xx should just jump right in but those planning on getting 68xx/69xx should wait and see what nvidia has in store.

Check it out

http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/item/20312-fermi-mid-life-kicker-comes-in-40nm

Oh and remember nvidia vows that after the launch of fermi refresh (1.5, fermi+) whatever you wanna call it that they will release an entire top to bottom refresh 3 months after.


Fudo and his inside spy's are at it agaiin :D
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they are not going to do a full refresh of fermi!!!! did you read and understand the article you linked to in your first post?

"Jen-Hsun Huang, the chief executive officer of Nvidia, said at a press conference during GPU Technology Conference (GTC) that the company would ramp up top-to-bottom family of graphics chips with new architectures in three months time"

they key word is NEW. that doesnt mean they are releasing a full line up of refreshed fermi. when their new architecture (kepler) comes out, they are saying with in three months they will have a full line up of gpus.
 
tricky0502 said:
they are not going to do a full refresh of fermi!!!! did you read and understand the article you linked to in your first post?

"Jen-Hsun Huang, the chief executive officer of Nvidia, said at a press conference during GPU Technology Conference (GTC) that the company would ramp up top-to-bottom family of graphics chips with new architectures in three months time"

they key word is NEW. that doesnt mean they are releasing a full line up of refreshed fermi. when their new architecture (kepler) comes out, they are saying with in three months they will have a full line up of gpus.
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Ah perhaps that detail was missed. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see another mid range card later, maybe not in 3 months time after fermi refresh launch but I don't expect them to hand the mainstream market over to AMD without any competition to 67xx series. Sorry bout that, I didn't catch that detail. So Kepler and Maxwell will have full top to bottom 3 months after launch, or at least that is their goal.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
or maybe ill make up my own mind instead of listening to some one in a forum saying what i should and shouldn't do, thank you very much..
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Go to every thread and say the same thing then. Everyone here recommends what they think based on what they are posting about. Instead of thread crapping why did you simply just not post. :rolleyes:
 
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