BenQ releases XL2410T, their first 120 Hz monitor

from that link:

"BenQ has teamed up with ZOWIE – a manufacturer of high-end gaming gear - and two professional Counter-Strike players in the testing stages for this new gaming monitor."

What a coincidence, I've been waiting for Sandy-bridge/Bulldozer, AMD 6870, and a 120hz gaming monitor, and one of my favorite games is Counter Strike: Source.

Still, it remains to be seen if they focused on getting quality right rather than getting a 120hz screen out. It'll be nice of the input lag on this is 0, I can dream right?
 
BenQ is joining the "we gots 10,000,000 dynamic contrast ratio, lolz" club. /facepalm

Is that asymmetrical bezel going to cause trouble with surround?
 
I'm definitely looking forward to see the XL2410T in action through the first few unboxing and reviews. I saw some of the new EW2420 unboxing that is the VA LED monitors. The colors are absolutely fabulous on those monitors as they have VA panels that have impressive viewing angles (just as good as IPS).

Here is the thread:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1529765

But either way, I've been following BenQ monitors for a while now. It seems that in the past few years they've been releasing more and more innovative and sleek designed monitors. They seem to always be slight in front of the curve with new sleek designs or implementing of a new technology. It's a pity that they're not well known due to a poor distribution chain that they work with. I like BenQ products because in a way they are considered under dogs in the market and their products tend to have competitive prices while offering the same if not a little more than the competitor's model. So as a consumer; it's nice to reap the benefits :)
Anyway, definitely am excited about the XL2410T, as I am looking for a new 120hz monitor to buy. I was looking at AW2310. Hopefully the XL2410T will have a better price tag to work with!
 
Nice, I was looking around at some of the 120hz displays out there, this could be a good display. Hopefully Amazon will carry it, since it looks like they're the main online source now. And just as well since I'm an Amazon whore anyway.
 
I'm definitely looking forward to see the XL2410T in action through the first few unboxing and reviews. I saw some of the new EW2420 unboxing that is the VA LED monitors. The colors are absolutely fabulous on those monitors as they have VA panels that have impressive viewing angles (just as good as IPS).

Unfortunately, this one is a TN monitor. If you look at the specs, it is clearly the same 2ms TN panel other 24" 120Hz monitors use.

As far as I know, there just aren't any VA or IPS panels that can handle 120Hz, they are all too slow. Remember that to get 120 distinct frames, you have to fully form the image in 8.3ms. While IPS panels are as fast as 6-7ms quoted specs, remember that is grey to grey, so only in some cases. The best ISO time I've seen on one is 12ms. Getting there, but still 50% over what it has to be. Means if you tried to make one 120Hz the image quality wouldn't be acceptable, in particular for 3D since it is alternating images and if two smeared together, it'd be really noticeable.

Until there's a VA or IPS panel that can do 8ms or better on all transitions, I can't see a 120Hz one coming out. Pity, because I've heard 120Hz is really nice and fluid for 2D, but I'm far too attached to the better image IPS offers to get a 120Hz TN.
 
Unfortunately, this one is a TN monitor. If you look at the specs, it is clearly the same 2ms TN panel other 24" 120Hz monitors use.

As far as I know, there just aren't any VA or IPS panels that can handle 120Hz, they are all too slow. Remember that to get 120 distinct frames, you have to fully form the image in 8.3ms. While IPS panels are as fast as 6-7ms quoted specs, remember that is grey to grey, so only in some cases. The best ISO time I've seen on one is 12ms. Getting there, but still 50% over what it has to be. Means if you tried to make one 120Hz the image quality wouldn't be acceptable, in particular for 3D since it is alternating images and if two smeared together, it'd be really noticeable.

Until there's a VA or IPS panel that can do 8ms or better on all transitions, I can't see a 120Hz one coming out. Pity, because I've heard 120Hz is really nice and fluid for 2D, but I'm far too attached to the better image IPS offers to get a 120Hz TN.

Actually, I wasn't referring to the XL2410T as a IPS or VA matched monitor.
I was just acknowledging the fact that it is a nice monitor and I'm looking forward to it AND additionally, I was pointing out that BenQ is releasing another new monitor that has nothing to do with the XL2410T. The EW and VW series uses VA panels to enhance viewing angles and color contrast. I apologize if I may have confused you and make it unclear of differentiating them..
 
As far as I know, there just aren't any VA or IPS panels that can handle 120Hz, they are all too slow. Remember that to get 120 distinct frames, you have to fully form the image in 8.3ms. While IPS panels are as fast as 6-7ms quoted specs, remember that is grey to grey, so only in some cases. The best ISO time I've seen on one is 12ms. Getting there, but still 50% over what it has to be. Means if you tried to make one 120Hz the image quality wouldn't be acceptable, in particular for 3D since it is alternating images and if two smeared together, it'd be really noticeable.

Until there's a VA or IPS panel that can do 8ms or better on all transitions, I can't see a 120Hz one coming out. Pity, because I've heard 120Hz is really nice and fluid for 2D, but I'm far too attached to the better image IPS offers to get a 120Hz TN.

I'm not sure if there would not be any benefit for slower panels to have 120hz. Maybe every transition is not around 8ms, but there is a change nevertheless. It might actually look really good, and perform better as far as I know until we can test one. If 60hz panels change in 2MS, that would be a "delay" of up to 16ms, and then the monitor shifts the pixels. On a 120hz 8ms monitor, it would be max 8ms until the next screen refresh, and then 8ms to twist the liquid crystal.

16,67ms+2ms = 18ms
8,33ms=8ms = 16,33

There is also the benefit of judder free movie playback at 24fps as 120/24=5.

Maybe the mouse pointer would look a little bit like this, triggering crystals to a partial twist, making the mouse easier to track like all the reviewers rave about. Maybe even less sample-and-hold smearing.

60hz_vs_120hz_smooth_mouse_cursor_ips.jpg



A market demand like 120hz might actually make the manufactorers to develop faster in-plane-switching crystals and use overdrive.
 
Still no DisplayPort... Why does nearly every manufacturer insist on keeping their thumbs up their a**?
 
I'll buy one of these as soon as it's available and post a review.
 
Still no DisplayPort... Why does nearly every manufacturer insist on keeping their thumbs up their a**?

I don't think you will see a 120hz with DP unless Nvidia incorporates DP into there video cards, or unless AMD changes there business strategy in that area.
 
A market demand like 120hz might actually make the manufactorers to develop faster in-plane-switching crystals and use overdrive.

I have to think they'd do it if they could and believed there was demand. Monitor manufacturers have to cope with a problem in that monitors last a long time. Most computer components have something of a short life span because they become outdated so fast. A processor will probably work for 30-100 years, however after 5 it is pretty badly outdated and it is ancient after 10.

Well displays aren't like that, not any more. We have some 10 year old LCDs at work and they still work great for text. No they aren't as bright or fast or whatever as new displays but they get the job done.

This is a problem, as it is hard to sell lots of new product if the old stuff works great.

Well, 120Hz/3D is a way to convince more people to buy new. It is a new feature that some people want and hence a way to sell a new display to someone that already has a perfectly good monitor.

Also the IPS market makes you more per unit, since they cost more, and has less competition over all. While it is a smaller market, it is still an attractive one for that reason. Thus I have to imagine they'd do it if they could.

If one comes out, you can be sure I'll be interested. I won't buy TN monitors, I've just become too accustomed to the good image on IPS displays, but I could go for 120Hz for sure. I'm not real interested in 3D but I'd love to have a more fluid display.
 
I'll buy one of these as soon as it's available and post a review.

Where are you located? This monitor will be available in Europe first.

I'm in Europe myself, but I would hate to buy a monitor without seeing some reviews.
 
Already posted in the 120Hz LCD thread but wouldn't hurt to post here either:

Check out BenQ's homepage for more info and yes it says it's LED so don't worry about that and they even made 2 videos featuring spawn and heaton from CS http://benq.eu/products/LCD/index.cfm/product/1223

I skimmed through the manual quickly and found the OSD has quite lots of settings, the possible display modes are overscan, full, aspect, 1:1, 17" (5:4, 1280x1024), 19"(5:4, 1280x1024), 19"W(doesn't say aspect ratio but prolly 16:9, 1440x900), 22"W (doesn't say aspect ratio but prolly 16:10, 1680x1050). The color settings, besides the standard normal, warm, cold (which are actually named reddish and bluish on this BenQ) and custom tweakable RGB settings, it's also got Gamma, Hue, Saturation(built-in "Digital vibrance" yay! :p) and AMA which says "improves grey level response time" (Overdrive maybe?). Then we have "Senseye demo", display 2 windows with the "standard" settings to left and the current settings to the right for comparision. Then there's this "Instant mode" setting to remove input lag(!) (similar to LG) etc. Sounds good? All this for probably around $400 only. :D

This monitor is already available and in stock in sweden for ~4000 SEK without glasses http://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?p=703579 Should correspond to ~$400 USD. The Alienware still goes for 5000 SEK or so there for comparision. Some people should have by next week. Sounds like THE gaming monitor to me. :)

Here's also an article from zowiegear that BenQ cooperated with http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:xl2410t&catid=37:news
 
Isn't 4000 SEK more like 430 EUR or 600 USD?

Nah, the prices are with 25% or whatever the VAT is over there atm, if you want to do some direct SEK -> USD conversions start by removing 25% then we're at 3200 SEK then we're at like $475 but US is a lot cheaper than here in Scandinavia so 400 USD usually compare to 4000 SEK (comparing product costs over in swedish etailers and newegg the prices in SEK are usually the USD price x 10) and like I said the Alienware is sold for like 5000 - 5300 SEK, in US $499 and this BenQ monitor is introduced at ~4000 SEK already from launch so I'd say $399 over at newegg is very likely (but there may be price gauging at launch as usual). ;) I'm actually from Finland, neighbour country to Sweden and in Finland it's like 400 EUR = 400 USD (at best and sometimes we pay higher in EUR than you pay in USD for same product). :p
 
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Where are you located? This monitor will be available in Europe first.

I'm in Europe myself, but I would hate to buy a monitor without seeing some reviews.

I am in the US so you Europeans will get it first. I will purchase it as soon as it's available here in the US, which is hopefully not too far away!
 
If Dell or Apple were to release a 120hz monitor, those would likely include Displayport. (In apple's case, ONLY displayport).
 
If Dell or Apple were to release a 120hz monitor, those would likely include Displayport. (In apple's case, ONLY displayport).

Dell did : http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...etail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-8846

And it lacks a display port. Display port is great and all but until Nvidia takes the standard seriously its support on monitors will likely stay the same. In fact if Intel started taking it seriously and put DP's on its integrated cards than you would see it every where.
 
Dell did : http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...etail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-8846

And it lacks a display port. Display port is great and all but until Nvidia takes the standard seriously its support on monitors will likely stay the same. In fact if Intel started taking it seriously and put DP's on its integrated cards than you would see it every where.
Yeah the only thing that would get nvidia off is a huge AMD Radeon + 30" 120hz display market stunt so people would realize DisplayPort. But would it be more input lag with Display ports packet based transmission in comparison to DVIs line transmission?

The picture is transmitted line by line with blanking intervals between each line and each frame, and without packetisation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

The data transmission protocol in DisplayPort is based on micro packets, allowing flexible allocation of available bandwidth, and is extensible for future feature additions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort
 
- An example of one of the situations we wanted to change is rushing into a darker area of a map (i.e. "dark on dust2) and trying to spot an enemy, but the coloring of your monitor is too damn dark and you can't see the guy hiding in the corner; boom, you're dead. To prevent this, most gamers play with brightness and gamma levels of "3" but this is not really comfortable for the eyes and the game looks unnatural. The coloring of the "FPS mode" is optimized to provide the perfect balance between performance and visual appearance.
http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:xl2410t&catid=37:news

Or their monitor lack proper black level reproduction.

- The display was equally unable to separate very dark grays from absolute black. As a result, we had a difficult time seeing what was happening in the Blu-ray version of Watchmen’s opening fight sequence.
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/reviews/asus_vg236h_120hz_display_review
 
- An example of one of the situations we wanted to change is rushing into a darker area of a map (i.e. "dark on dust2) and trying to spot an enemy, but the coloring of your monitor is too damn dark and you can't see the guy hiding in the corner; boom, you're dead. To prevent this, most gamers play with brightness and gamma levels of "3" but this is not really comfortable for the eyes and the game looks unnatural. The coloring of the "FPS mode" is optimized to provide the perfect balance between performance and visual appearance.
http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102:xl2410t&catid=37:news

Or their monitor lack proper black level reproduction.

- The display was equally unable to separate very dark grays from absolute black. As a result, we had a difficult time seeing what was happening in the Blu-ray version of Watchmen’s opening fight sequence.
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/reviews/asus_vg236h_120hz_display_review

Why did you post something completely irrelevant (The Asus 120Hz review conclusion). This thread is about the BenQ XL2410T
 
Well damn .. thats not such good news.

You did notice that he took that last sentence out of an Asus monitor review? Which, as Koslov said, is completely irrelevant here.
 
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What's there to comment about the BenQ? The monitor is not out yet, there are no reviews and we don't know anything about its picture quality.

The fact that there's an FPS mode with altered gamma/brightness says nothing about the image quality in standard mode.
 
What's there to comment about the BenQ? The monitor is not out yet, there are no reviews and we don't know anything about its picture quality.

The fact that there's an FPS mode with altered gamma/brightness says nothing about the image quality in standard mode.

If its BenQ its safe to assume PQ will be passable at best. Since this is a gaming monitor I'm not expecting it to post delta ranges close to 1000 dollar NEC models but from the impressions of that user who posted the comment I was hoping for more. However its not a review so it could just be a mixed view point thats not being subjective.

I just wish someone would offer a 120hz IPS panel.
 
DarkUltra is postulating that the inclusion of an 'fps mode' may imply that the monitor cannot properly reproduce dark-end detail. I don't think he has the monitor yet.
 
I doubt it's due to lack of contrast, it's just some of the top CS nerds were participating in designing this monitor. :p FPS mode is prolly slightly inaccurate if you want the best possible natural looking picture, it's prolly using slightly higher gamma like 2.4 prolly coupled with slightly higher brightness & contrast than standard profile in order so you can see the enemies hiding in dark spots easier. BenQ advertises this monitor like a monitor for competitive gaming.
 
games today with rare exception don't follow any gamma or colour standard anyway so that probably doesn't matter much. benq advertises this monitor like they want their customers to think it is the monitor competitive gamers would want to use. Truth is competitive gamers, like most people on here actually, would probably want useful advertising and not reading things like 10mil:1 dynamic ratio, yawn.
 
I'm sure this monitor is going to compete head to head with the Alienware model. It's going to kick ass stop hating. This is a TN based 120Hz monitor, if you don't like TN panels, don't hate on them, go to an IPS thread. Seriously... TN, IPS, VA all have their strengths and weaknesses.... And Godmachine, BenQ makes great monitors FYI. If you're used to IPS panel monitors then it's incomparable. But if you use TN panels then it is definitely comparable.

Keep in mind BenQ is in the top3 panel manufacturers in the world:
LG
Samsung
BenQ (AU optronics)
 
Some sample pics are uploaded. Remember a camera usually makes the pics a bit darker and like the colors were stronger. But I think at least the colortone looks balanced like it was around 6500K and the contrast also looks be good like if BenQ didn't use the cheapest possible LED backlight. The colors do seem quite strong and vivid and too saturated but I hope that's either due to the camera or monitor settings (looks like contrast is set really high and brightness quite high and maybe the saturation setting on the monitor was abused a little :p).

EDIT: Appearently he used "photo" preset and adjusted contrast to 81 which if you want to calibrate it correctly is in my guess far too high for this monitor (I use 75 on my ViewSonic 120Hz and ViewSonic has like worst contrast of all 120Hz displays). I never understood why people don't want the best possible settings and just calibrate everything yourself (I've never been happy with the predefined settings myself). :p
 
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Looking good! Number 1 on my list for the moment, still waiting for the 27" Asus to make a showing. I still hope to see some solid reviews of input lag, a color spectrum test wouldn't hurt.
 
That's actually very little backlight bleeding for brightness: 100 and contrast: 81. :p

Check the other 120Hz monitors with same settings and you'd change opinion quick. Remember 120Hz monitors are much brighter than traditional 60Hz LCDs and the brighter the displays the more risk for backlight bleeding. Check his other pic with brightness set to 50:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2zzu8w0.jpg - not much BLB visible anymore :p, it's in a pitch black room ffs, with even some very faint lightning it would be completely invisible and prolly even at 100 brightness! under normal lightning conditions.

Brightness setting of 50 is still higher than I'd most likely use myself. I posted some comparision of my ViewSonic in the thread (http://translate.google.com/transla...6335-benq-3d-monitor/index4.html#post10449131) for comparision, I use brightness setting 24 on my VX2268wm cuz of backlight bleed issue, otherwise around 30 - 35 I had thought would be optimal.
 
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Check his other pic with brightness set to 50:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2zzu8w0.jpg - not much BLB visible anymore :p

Even that looks pretty damn bad by my standards. My current BenQ G2400WD has virtually no bleed at any brightness setting.

Poor backlight uniformity is one of the things that bothers me the most about a monitor, so right now it looks like I won't be upgrading to the XL2410T after all. But for now, I'll be waiting for more reviews.
 
Who cares the whatever backlight bleeding thing, I just want a 0 input lag 120Hz monitor for gaming. As long as it can display my enemy clearly at 640*480 it's fine. All these 120Hz LCDs are too expensive and too big, 17 inch is more than enough to play. FFS why people don't produce CRT anymore, they are perfect.
 
Even that looks pretty damn bad by my standards. My current BenQ G2400WD has virtually no bleed at any brightness setting.

Poor backlight uniformity is one of the things that bothers me the most about a monitor, so right now it looks like I won't be upgrading to the XL2410T after all. But for now, I'll be waiting for more reviews.

Have you tried staring at a completely black background on your G2400WD in a pitch black room at brightness 100 and contrast 81? I doubt it, almost all TN panels have at least some visible backlight bleed under such conditions, put on a light and the backlight bleed would be hardly noticable anymore, at brightness 50 setting it compares to like my parent's Panasonic G10 plasma TV in black levels (ok lowering the brightness setting on it would make it perfect black but too dark overall), displays have a hard time to really produce perfect blacks in a pitch black room, even on my CRT I had to lower the brightness compared to what I thought was good for use under normal lightning conditions. I did also notice some "purple" blacks at bottom on some of the BenQ G2420HD that my school have recently bought.

If you look around at the other 120Hz displays you should quickly notice it's got a little backlight bleed. 120Hz displays need to be brighter cuz of the 3D vision glasses and therefore you're gonna get more BLB overall on 120Hz displays (doesn't mean every1 has to have a lot of BLB though). Don't compare BLB to your standard 60Hz, compare it to the other 120Hz displays. Most of you would never use anything close to 100 brightness setting on a display like this or you'd get eye-fatigue or headache, for many even 50 would be too much to use so then I doubt the BLB will be noticable at all, the person that posted the BLB pics actually uses 100 brightness LOL and said he had not noticed any backlight bleed when he used it normally in a lit-up room.
 
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