TN vs IPS panels? What's the difference?

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white_dove

Limp Gawd
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Messages
198
Hello.
Can somenone explain me shortly,what's the difference between TN panels,and IPS -H-IPS ...etc...panels ?
Except the viewing angles (160 - the lowest)
Please explain me,guys. I'm very confudsed. The more i read and learn about monitor specs,the more i'm confused,like : wide gamut,input lag,panel types,and so on.
I'm looking for a good quality monitor ( clear picture,true colors ,no oversaturation...)
I'm just a normal user,no professional. As a gamer,the same story.I'm not a hardcore gamer.
About viewing angles : i'm not gonna use my computer and monitor with more persons at the same time. So that's not a problem at all,for me.
I'm still thinking about the HP 2474w,but after so many threads with "oversaturation" i'm not sure.
When people wanna buy graphic cards,cpu's ,sound cards ,motherboards and so on,is not that dificult. They ask about,they have an idea about the hardware they wanna buy,but with monitors it's a very very different story.
If i ask here,for example, "how is the HP 2475w looks like? Colors and stuff.." i'll get so many different answers.Because that's just a question of taste. Colors ,brightness ,contrast..
It's very hard to buy a monitor without seeing it before.
After so many researches,i'd go for :
HP 2475w
HP W2558HC ( TN panel,is that bad? ) :)
HP W2448HC ( TN )
LG W2452V-PF http://uk.shoppydoo.com/price-lcd_monitors-lg_w2452v_pf.html
LG W2600 PF ( i would prefer 24" )http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/lg-w2600h-pf-lcd/4507-3174_7-32915976.html?tag=mncol;psum
HP L2445w
If you have any ideas / advices ,they are welcome. Thanks.
 
8-bit vs 6-bit colour, TNs use interpolation to get to 16+ million colours.
Gamma shift. TNs have terrible horizontal gamma (saturation) shift, IPS only vertical.

Note that hardware calibrating a monitor, even if it's just a TN panel can really boost the image quality.
 
Elledan said:
8-bit vs 6-bit colour, TNs use interpolation to get to 16+ million colours.
Gamma shift. TNs have terrible horizontal gamma (saturation) shift, IPS only vertical.

Note that hardware calibrating a monitor, even if it's just a TN panel can really boost the image quality.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, there are lots of modern tn panels on 8 bits. And the gamma shift is more obvious when moving in the vertical direction, especially when viewing the monitor from below. This is the first time when I hear about IPS gamma shift. IPS only has that specific glow when viewed at an angle.
 
goodCat: Any links to a 8-bit TN? All the ones I've seen use Hi-FRC to get 16.7million colors.
 
Elledan said:
8-bit vs 6-bit colour, TNs use interpolation to get to 16+ million colours.
Gamma shift. TNs have terrible horizontal gamma (saturation) shift, IPS only vertical.

Note that hardware calibrating a monitor, even if it's just a TN panel can really boost the image quality.
Click to expand...

You mean,with a hardware calibration tool i can boost / make better / the white color quality?
Is that worth to pay 170-200 $ for a tool like that,just to use it once ??
 
medire said:
You mean,with a hardware calibration tool i can boost / make better / the white color quality?
Is that worth to pay 170-200 $ for a tool like that,just to use it once ??
Click to expand...

A tool like the Spyder3 can be used to create a monitor profile specifically for your monitor(s), allowing the colour balance and such to be the best possible. From what I have heard it can make even okayish TN panels look a lot better than with their default settings. Personally I just use it with CRTs only.

The Spyder2 can be had for around $75, BTW, and will suffice for many displays.
 
white_dove said:
Hello.
Can somenone explain me shortly,what's the difference between TN panels,and IPS -H-IPS ...etc...panels ?
Except the viewing angles (160 - the lowest)
Please explain me,guys. I'm very confudsed. The more i read and learn about monitor specs,the more i'm confused,like : wide gamut,input lag,panel types,and so on.
I'm looking for a good quality monitor ( clear picture,true colors ,no oversaturation...)
I'm just a normal user,no professional. As a gamer,the same story.I'm not a hardcore gamer.
About viewing angles : i'm not gonna use my computer and monitor with more persons at the same time. So that's not a problem at all,for me.
I'm still thinking about the HP 2474w,but after so many threads with "oversaturation" i'm not sure.
When people wanna buy graphic cards,cpu's ,sound cards ,motherboards and so on,is not that dificult. They ask about,they have an idea about the hardware they wanna buy,but with monitors it's a very very different story.
If i ask here,for example, "how is the HP 2475w looks like? Colors and stuff.." i'll get so many different answers.Because that's just a question of taste. Colors ,brightness ,contrast..
It's very hard to buy a monitor without seeing it before.
After so many researches,i'd go for :
HP 2475w
HP W2558HC ( TN panel,is that bad? ) :)
HP W2448HC ( TN )
LG W2452V-PF http://uk.shoppydoo.com/price-lcd_monitors-lg_w2452v_pf.html
LG W2600 PF ( i would prefer 24" )http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/lg-w2600h-pf-lcd/4507-3174_7-32915976.html?tag=mncol;psum
HP L2445w
If you have any ideas / advices ,they are welcome. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Just for your information and not to start a debate on which screen technology is the best.
I have been using the higher quality and higher priced IPS and PVA panels over the years mainly because I saw some of the earlier TN type panels and they were terrible. It wasnt the viewing angle that bothered me it was the fact that the colors looked terrible and couldnt be adjsuted.

So just recently I decided to try one the the monitors that you have on your list which is the HP w2558hc mainly because it was the largest glossy type display that I could find.
After using it for a couple of months right next to my Planar PX2611 IPS type monitor I can say that I have been very pleased. It has very nice picture quality and colors. I do not notice any color shift because I sit right in front of it so it doesnt bother me.
I think most people would be very pleased with this monitor and it only cost me $350 while the Planar cost over double that price.
 
I believe that 98% of all LCD's are TN panels !

The other 2 % are triple the price and there so that 1 % of the people can brag that they paid more for a very Subtle different image. That may or may not look better, depending on your eyes.
 
wkstar said:
I believe that 98% of all LCD's are TN panels !

The other 2 % are triple the price and there so that 1 % of the people can brag that they paid more for a very Subtle different image. That may or may not look better, depending on your eyes.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Out-right wrong.
 
wkstar said:
I believe that 98% of all LCD's are TN panels !

The other 2 % are triple the price and there so that 1 % of the people can brag that they paid more for a very Subtle different image. That may or may not look better, depending on your eyes.
Click to expand...

Okay then I guess I am part of your stupid 1% estimate.

I currently own a TN, S-PVA, and H-IPS panel monitor and there is not just a subtle difference.
 
I NEVER said or thought the 1% is ( are ) stupid.

They just have better eye sight than I do.
 
wkstar said:
I NEVER said or thought the 1% is ( are ) stupid.

They just have better eye sight than I do.
Click to expand...

If you can't tell the differences between the panels you HAVE to be legally blind. This isn't an insult...just a fact. Sit in front of a TN panel and then stand up, the picture changes. Sit in front of an IPS panel and the picture does not change. I do not know how you cannot see this.
 
TN monitors are for these who want to save money, aren't demaning regarding objective colour quality (not subjective) or want a minimum input-lag for FPS gaming.
The price matter for the most people, so we can't shun TN monitors. What I find most annoying thou is when some marketing departments try to persuade people, that TN monitors are superb etc. Well, they mostly don't know a difference between CRT and LCD, not to say between TN and IPS... :(
 
I did a ton of research over the last several months to upgrade my current monitor (a measly 19" Samsung 931BF). I knew I wanted not only bigger, but also better viewing angles, that was my top priority. TN panels, by its nature, have awful viewing angles. They are, however, cheap to make, therefore sell cheaply. That's a big reason why not many manufacturers go the PVA/MVA or IPS route, because those panels are more pricey and don't allow as much for a decent profit margin. I suspect that's the reason why BenQ stopped making their terrific FP241W series. They saw which way the wind was blowing in the display market and decided "hey, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

Fortunately, there will always be some manufacturers that will continue to build high quality monitors, but they don't come cheap (Eizo and LaCie, to name two). Even the vaunted NEC displays are going the TN route for the home consumer. My advice? You can mine the Internet for older but well regarded non-TN models in the hopes of finding one at a decent price (if you don't mind used/refurbished, there's always Craigslist and Amazon Marketplace).

A word about the HP LP2475w. I was actually going to get this monitor until I got lucky recently and found a new FP241VW for a bargain. The HP is an all-around great monitor. The oversaturation you hear so much about is the result of two things: It's a wide gamut monitor, what this means is that it's has a much larger color space than that of a TN or PVA monitor. In a rough nutshell, it shows a heckuva lot more color, so you're going to get a screen saturated with reds, greens, and blues. Secondly, and this is really the big reason for its oversaturation, is that the default color settings are wayyyyy off. I knew that if I was going to get this monitor, I was going to have to pony up for a color calibrator to get it right (Spyder2Express). Otherwise, if you don't mind the price tag, which is actually the lowest of all IPS panel monitors out there, it's a great bargain and will last you years.
 
white_dove said:
Hello.
Can somenone explain me shortly,what's the difference between TN panels,and IPS -H-IPS ...etc...panels ?...About viewing angles : i'm not gonna use my computer and monitor with more persons at the same time. So that's not a problem at all,for me...
Click to expand...

No, it will still be a problem for you. If the issue was just sharing a monitor with another person I doubt very few people would complain. TN panels have such narrow viewing angles particularly in the vertical that the slightest shift of your head will change the contrast and colors on the screen.. When I say slightest I mean any sort of movement beyond freezing like a statue such well, breathing.

Also TN panels are 6 bit as mentioned by prior posters so there are major issues with color reproduction and banding caused by interpolation. This will be less of issue for games but for movies or photo editing it’s a killer.

For many the differences between a M/SPVA panel and an H/IPS are much smaller but in my view TN panels are just not worth buying whether it is for gaming, movies, etc.
 
If the difference was so great and wonderful Then the Manufacturers would advertise what kind of panel it is and Brag about it. The public would go to the stores asking for these special panels. There would be Web Sites just on these Screens. It would not be a secret what kind of panel is in which display.

The Fact is that 98 % of the people can not tell the difference.
If they could then the screens would be for sale and people would buy them.

Why would someone manufacture a better product and NOT advertise that it is better and why. Because 98% of the people can not tell that is better.

If the screens are so much better , Why is there no Web Site listing them?

The only people that care are the 1% on web sites like this, that scream the loudest about something only they can see.

And do not say, they do not sell 'cause they cost more. Lots of things cost more and people buy them
 
wkstar said:
If the difference was so great and wonderful Then the Manufacturers would advertise what kind of panel it is and Brag about it. The public would go to the stores asking for these special panels. There would be Web Sites just on these Screens. It would not be a secret what kind of panel is in which display.

The Fact is that 98 % of the people can not tell the difference.
If they could then the screens would be for sale and people would buy them.

Why would someone manufacture a better product and NOT advertise that it is better and why. Because 98% of the people can not tell that is better.

If the screens are so much better , Why is there no Web Site listing them?

The only people that care are the 1% on web sites like this, that scream the loudest about something only they can see.

And do not say, they do not sell 'cause they cost more. Lots of things cost more and people buy them
Click to expand...

The same companies that manufacture high end monitors get the vast majority of their sales from their cheapo models. So they let the people who know what they want find the good models, instead of torpedoing their own business by putting down 98% of their products in the marketing for 2% of their products.

In Europe and Asia it is not uncommon for the panel type to be listed in the documentation, or even (gasp!) on the retail website.

Even my mom can tell the difference between an MVA and a TN. Everyone can. The main factor is that almost nobody even recognizes there is anything other than TN (not that they know there is such a thing as "TN"), because different panel technologies are so rarely seen in the flesh. Walk into a store and all the computer monitors will be TN, every single one. All the TVs will be VA/IPS (the ones that aren't will be much smaller and closer to the customer.) So people might recognize that TVs look different from monitors, but the differences won't be obvious enough to register with most people.
 
They don't often advertise the panel type because it is confusing, but they do often advertise the grade of LCD. Like Dell has their cheap line of E series monitors that use TN's. Lenovo/IBM had an LCD option of Flexview which meant it had an IPS panel and costed more.

I'd love to see the average sales person at a B&M explain the technological differences between TN, MVA, PVA, S-PVA, IPS, H-IPS, etc etc. Good luck. Also manufactures don't advertise the panel type or panel manufacture because its often based on supply. The 20" WS Dell could be a MVA or IPS based on who ever was supplying dell panels at the time. Samsung who makes LCD panels sometimes sources LCD panels from ChiMei or other companies. They do this to cut cost and they don't care to tell you about it because the average consumer just thinks they are getting a Samsung TV. You think Sony wants people to know they use Samsung panels and charge a premium price over basically the same Samsung TV?

I'd believe the majority of people do not know the difference, but given the oportunity they can definately tell the difference. Most people don't even know the difference between plasma and LCD, but I wouldn't down play the differences.
 
JohnleMVP said:
They don't often advertise the panel type because it is confusing, but they do often advertise the grade of LCD. Like Dell has their cheap line of E series monitors that use TN's. Lenovo/IBM had an LCD option of Flexview which meant it had an IPS panel and costed more.

I'd love to see the average sales person at a B&M explain the technological differences between TN, MVA, PVA, S-PVA, IPS, H-IPS, etc etc. Good luck. Also manufactures don't advertise the panel type or panel manufacture because its often based on supply. The 20" WS Dell could be a MVA or IPS based on who ever was supplying dell panels at the time. Samsung who makes LCD panels sometimes sources LCD panels from ChiMei or other companies. They do this to cut cost and they don't care to tell you about it because the average consumer just thinks they are getting a Samsung TV. You think Sony wants people to know they use Samsung panels and charge a premium price over basically the same Samsung TV?

I'd believe the majority of people do not know the difference, but given the oportunity they can definately tell the difference. Most people don't even know the difference between plasma and LCD, but I wouldn't down play the differences.
Click to expand...

I remeber a couple of years ago, I was monitor shopping and went to Best Buy. I tracked down the clerk there in the PC department and asked him if they had any IPS panels in stock. He proclaimed "What brand is that?", I explained to him the differing technology. He then said he would go get the district representative for the department, as she was there that day.

They both came back, and she asked me what exactly I was looking for. I then had to describe to her, as well as show her on the displays what the difference was. She was literally amazed at the difference between TN and PVA, and asked if i needed a job.

Even these people who are just paid to sell electronics should have a basic understanding of the technology. If it was my job to match people with devices to make them happy, I at least would try to learn about what I'm selling them. Just as with the scam about selling a calibration with your new HDTV. Preying on the uninformed for a few hundred bucks is more important than making the customer happy.
 
People who harp about the color differences are thinking of very old TN screens. I had my TN next to my NEC IPS screen. People don't see any difference in colors. IMO color looks absolutely fine on my TN and is comparable to my expensive IPS (and was better than my garish wide gamut 3007-HC). Here is a shot of my small TN and big IPS. Unless you are a graphics professional color on current TNs is fine.
sunsetbeachny7.jpg


What is pretty bad on TNs is the vertical image shift. This picture is not a gradient, it is one solid tone. This is accurate, though you tend to get used to it. It only really annoyed me when I was editing and comparing images. This is the real problem.
tnshift.jpg
 
Luthorcrow said:
No, it will still be a problem for you. If the issue was just sharing a monitor with another person I doubt very few people would complain. TN panels have such narrow viewing angles particularly in the vertical that the slightest shift of your head will change the contrast and colors on the screen.. When I say slightest I mean any sort of movement beyond freezing like a statue such well, breathing.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's anywhere near quite as obvious with a decent TN panel... But it's still very noticeable if you're looking for it at all. If say, you slouch down on your chair and lean back, you'll notice this... Or if you have the panel off-center because you have multiple displays, you'll notice this. I certainly don't notice it on my TN panel from breathing or shifting my eyes/glasses a tiny bit though. :p

Frankly a lot of people can tell the difference between a TN and IPS panel easily if you set 'em up side by side or they get up from one and go sit directly in front of the other... But they'd also be perfectly happy paying $200-300 less for the TN panel, hence the way the market has developed.

If you're doing any kind of profesional work w/Photoshop/etc you'd be crazy to go w/a TN panel though.

wkstar said:
The Fact is that 98 % of the people can not tell the difference.
If they could then the screens would be for sale and people would buy them.

Why would someone manufacture a better product and NOT advertise that it is better and why. Because 98% of the people can not tell that is better.
Click to expand...

That's some of the most idiotic logic I've heard all week... Please stop talking.
 
vick1000 said:
I remeber a couple of years ago, I was monitor shopping and went to Best Buy. I tracked down the clerk there in the PC department and asked him if they had any IPS panels in stock. He proclaimed "What brand is that?", I explained to him the differing technology. He then said he would go get the district representative for the department, as she was there that day.

They both came back, and she asked me what exactly I was looking for. I then had to describe to her, as well as show her on the displays what the difference was. She was literally amazed at the difference between TN and PVA, and asked if i needed a job.
Click to expand...
LOL. I'm surprised they carried non-TN monitors, and also surprised at their positive reaction to you. At least they were open minded and willing to learn something new, instead of being dismissive of you.
 
Oh and judging displays at a store is generally a shoddy way of picking one out btw (this has no relation to what the above poster quoted, just commenting)... The brightness is usually set to max at the store and the colors tend to be off as well, and it's nigh impossible to calibrate one display accurately, let alone two or three to then set 'em side by side. It's just a crapshoot, unless you find some very understanding store clerks, heh.
 
Snowdog said:
People who harp about the color differences are thinking of very old TN screens. I had my TN next to my NEC IPS screen. People don't see any difference in colors. IMO color looks absolutely fine on my TN and is comparable to my expensive IPS (and was better than my garish wide gamut 3007-HC). Here is a shot of my small TN and big IPS. Unless you are a graphics professional color on current TNs is fine.
sunsetbeachny7.jpg


What is pretty bad on TNs is the vertical image shift. This picture is not a gradient, it is one solid tone. This is accurate, though you tend to get used to it. It only really annoyed me when I was editing and comparing images. This is the real problem.
tnshift.jpg
Click to expand...

I'm agreeing with you 100%!!!! I got turned off by the TN panels when they first came out years ago because of the lousy colors and they would invert at every angle. So for awhile I went back to the CRT and then started trying different IPS and MVA panels which looked real nice but kind of pricey. So now just recently I went out and got a HP w2558hc (TN panel) and have it sitting right next to my Planar PX2611 (IPS panel) for comparison. The HP w2558hc has just as good of PQ and color quality as the Planar 2611. The viewing angles on the TN type HP w2558 are not nearly as bad as they used to be. Yes you get alittle color shift but not that bad. The colors do not invert unless you look up from the bottom.
None of the color shift is even noticeable to me because Im always directly in front of the monitor. Kind of makes you think twice when the HP was less than half the price of the Planar:rolleyes:
 
Snowdog said:
People who harp about the color differences are thinking of very old TN screens. I had my TN next to my NEC IPS screen. People don't see any difference in colors.
Click to expand...

People see the difference in colors because it's pretty obvious.
This is typical for TNs. Even on this "busy" picture the difference is terrible due to vertical shift.

45757624.jpg



Same as here.


Can anyone close this "$1 vs $2? What is the difference?" thread? This has been chewed 100 times already:mad:
 
Ok darker clouds..............lighter clouds..........darker sky..........lighter sky

Oh I see I get it...........:rolleyes:
 
Well, you're seeing the difference, I think that was his point... It doesn't bother you, fine, then a TN panel's probably fine for you. Truth be told, it's not the sort of thing you're really gonna notice in games. Some people are willing to pay for more accurate colors and better viewing angles though, and some people absolutely need it for their work.
 
TN wouldn't be a problem for me if i didn't play FPS. You see, when you pan the camera by looking up and down in a FPS, the verticle shift is exaggerated to the point it's unbearable, especially in dark shooters like STALKER.

Anyone who says it's not there anymore is oblivious or lying, because even the newest TNs have the same amount of shift, just put up a solid background at a mid level grey/ hue, and it's there all right.
 
I think the key here is that it's unbearable to you. Note that I'm not taking either side, I think each display tech has it's merit, it's just unfortunate IPS carries such a premium due to market complacency w/TN panels... But it works like any other market.
 
albovin said:
People see the difference in colors because it's pretty obvious.
This is typical for TNs. Even on this "busy" picture the difference is terrible due to vertical shift.
Click to expand...

I agree, I just wanted to add a visual. People get worked up about 6 bit color and say color is a big problem, but this isn't accurate. FRC time domain dithering helps so much that most people could not tell the difference in color between 8bit and 6bit+FRC.

But the vertical viewing angle shift is always there. there is no position that exists (unless you are VERY far from the monitor) that will get rid of the vertical shift.

But for me personally the vertical shift is kind of annoying but still usable (unlike horizontal shift which is too distracting to use).

But of course I prefer my IPS NEC with essentially no shift in either direction.
 
Can Someone make a List of the Better Screens, with links to where to buy one.

'Cause Maybe I have just never seen one up close, So I have never seen the difference.
I am ready to buy a New Screen 22 --> 26 inch
So , Could you list w/links the screens and I will pick one.
Thanks
 
NEC 2490 24' Standard gamut (H-IPS)

HP 2475w 24" - Wide gamut (H-IPS)

Dell 2209WA 22' Standard gamut (E-IPS)

NEC 2690 26" Wide gamut (H-IPS)

This are good monitors but still depends what you like/need the Nec 2490 is the best from
the list but its expensive just like the other model from NEC 2690 (1200-1400$)

If you want something cheap and good get the HP if money is not problem NEC 2490 ;)
 
I'll toss in the Planar PX2611w.

I have the NEC 2690WUXi and the Planar PX2611w. Both uses the same H-IPS panel, the PX2611w lacks the extra electronics to improve color quality that's in the NEC 2690WUXi, thus it costs less.
 
wkstar said:
Can Someone make a List of the Better Screens, with links to where to buy one.

'Cause Maybe I have just never seen one up close, So I have never seen the difference.
I am ready to buy a New Screen 22 --> 26 inch
So , Could you list w/links the screens and I will pick one.
Thanks
Click to expand...

It's been done already, in the Anandtech LCD Thread.
 
JaguarSKX said:
I'll toss in the Planar PX2611w.

I have the NEC 2690WUXi and the Planar PX2611w. Both uses the same H-IPS panel, the PX2611w lacks the extra electronics to improve color quality that's in the NEC 2690WUXi, thus it costs less.
Click to expand...

Is the 2690 noticeable better then Planar ? talking about IQ and color reproduction.
 
I have both an S-PVA and a TN. FPS gaming on the S-PVA is awful....too much blurring and a bit of input lag. I use my TN exclusively now. I don't see problems with color/contrast shift unless I'm looking for them. These screens are all about tradeoffs and for me the improvements made in TN are significant enough to choose them over the alternatives.
 
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