Dawn Of War 2 = epic Fail and DRM gone overboard

B

Big Lebowski

n00b
Joined
Aug 9, 2004
Messages
22
Just a heads up this game will not run in single player or multiplayer mode without Steam AND Games for Windows Live both running at the same time in the background. I tried to play tonight and could not because the Steam CD check servers were overloaded.
 
Last edited:
There was an Open Beta a few weeks before the game went live. So you should have known it uses Windows Live and Steam. Im not a fan of WL but steam doesn't bother me.
 
If you didn't know it uses Steam and GfWL by now you obviously weren't paying attention. And yes having to be logged into both is the curse of both services, but oh well.
 
I don't have time these days to watch/play betas to see what DRM is being implemented and I don't beta test games for rich companies for free anymore, that's just goofy. None of the reviews I read mentioned it either.

So yeah I guess I was not paying attention :rolleyes:

Oh another thing only 7 multiplayer maps.
 
Last edited:
You're overreacting. Steam was down for maintenance and it was only for about an hour. Xbox Live has had downtime much longer than that.

Also, if you wanted to, you could have played Dawn of War II's single-player campaign in offline mode and just waited until the Steam servers came back up.
 
Actually, it's DRM lite, any less DRM and it would be DRM free.

Steam is the only DRM, by the way. GFWL is just there for matchmaking, friends list, and to validate Achievements and scores.

And the Steam DRM we used was the lightest, least intrusive method possible, even lets you play offline. It does a check at load to see if it's a legit copy, and that's it.

Which is why we were "rewarded" with the number one spot on Pirate Bay's PC Games list. Doesn't matter what you do or don't do with DRM, pirates just want free shit, no matter what they say to justify it.

Finally, GFWL will ONLY be running when you run the game, exit the game and you exit GFWL.

EDIT: The "rich companies" thing cracked me up. Have you SEEN the price of THQ stock lately? Heh.
 
Actually game companies do stuff like this because people DO pirate the games. Is it the right answer? Probably not but all the PC games are going with something like this to try to recoupe the money they spend on developing a game and then making a profit to stay viable. Blizzard will be doing the same thing with the new Diablo and Starcraft games. You will have to be logged into the new Battlenet to play the games and get updates. Not everyone has the money that Blizzard has to support their own game network so lesser companies have to rely on established entities like Steam and Windows Live to protect their interest.

I don't like having all that stuff running in the background either but it is going to be a fact of life if computer gaming is to survive into the future.
 
Why are you all justifying the game makers doing this to us gamers? This is not right. I already have to run a bloated operating system and now I have to run Steam (great service btw) and GWL in the background. That is bullshit. If you think this will stop pirating it will not. As soon as cacks are available people will be using them because they do want the background apps running.
 
Meh I played DoW 2 all yesterday, and only had problems with the occasional crash.
BTW if you don't have time to play a demo how do you have time to play the full game?
 
Honestly, we never thought that the paltry 6k RAM and miniscule amount of CPU cycles Steam uses, or the 2k RAM GFWL uses when the overlay isn't open was inhibiting your gaming freedom.

And the current "crack" for our game just replaces the tiny Steam client with an even larger (and potentially unsafe) Steam emulator. No win there.
 
I personally dont see the logic in DRM from a publisher standpoint. I guess it just keeps the stock holders who are completely clueless happy. Publishers have spent millions on DRM over the years, and everything has been cracked, usually at time of retail, often before. Wonder how many jobs developers could have saved, or how many improvements in gaming we could have had, if publishers poured the wasted money from DRM into the games.

Just remember, DRM will never drive a pirate away, but it can drive legit customers away.
 
Modest DRM can and does keep casual pirates away though. You know, the ones that will buy the game, not the ones that won't/can't buy it no matter what. And it can put a dent in Zero-Day piracy, which has a HUGE impact on sales. HUGE.

Since most PC games really only have a 2-week shelf life before sales drop dramatically (with a few exceptions), every day you can preserve in that small window of opportunity is exceptionally valuable.

That said, we opted for the least restrictive DRM we could, and like I mentioned earlier, we were thanked for this by becoming the #1 PC game download this week on torrent sites.

And DRM like we use does let us weed out the thieves from the paying customers, when it comes time to offer support. That shit costs us real money, and you'd be AMAZED at the amount of pirates that have the nerve to email or even call us with tech support issues. Amazed.
 
Croak said:
Modest DRM can and does keep casual pirates away though. You know, the ones that will buy the game, not the ones that won't/can't buy it no matter what. And it can put a dent in Zero-Day piracy, which has a HUGE impact on sales. HUGE.

Since most PC games really only have a 2-week shelf life before sales drop dramatically (with a few exceptions), every day you can preserve in that small window of opportunity is exceptionally valuable.

That said, we opted for the least restrictive DRM we could, and like I mentioned earlier, we were thanked for this by becoming the #1 PC game download this week on torrent sites.

And DRM like we use does let us weed out the thieves from the paying customers, when it comes time to offer support. That shit costs us real money, and you'd be AMAZED at the amount of pirates that have the nerve to email or even call us with tech support issues. Amazed.
Click to expand...

I dont pirate games but I also CANT play Dawn Of War 2 because GFWL isnt supported for my country (Czech Republic) and even after I created new account (with USA set as my country) at GFWL it still said in Dawn Of War 2 BETA that I am in unsupported territory (or something like that) :mad:

btw.: I really like Steam but GFWL is total POS

 
Do i wish there was no need for DRM. Yes, Absolutely!

But then I am a guy that does not mind paying for the games I play because I appreciate the developers that continue to make PC games.

The people that justify pirating a game for either cost reasons or that they are protesting DRM are the culprits here, not the game developers and publishers.

If you don't like the anti piracy measures then play console games.

And for the record, I have been playing DOW 2 for two days with zero problems and I think it is a very good game that draws you in and holds you once you get past the initial learning curve. I am regularly getting my butt handed to me on multi player and have found the campaign to be a lot of fun so far..
 
Big Lebowski said:
I don't have time in my life these days to watch/play betas to see what DRM is being implemented and I don't beta test games for rich companies for free anymore, that's just goofy. None of the glowing reviews I read mentioned it either, what a suprise $$$$

So yeah I guess I was not paying attention :rolleyes:

Oh another thing only 7 multiplayer maps lolz.
Click to expand...

"lolz", "epic fail". Sigh oh dear :eek:. Yes it has DRM, I really don't get this? Who cares play the game, yes it has few multi player maps. I'd hazard to guess more will be implemented later.
 
OP>I tried to play tonight and could not because the Steam CD check servers or whatever were overloaded.

Noob> Yes it has DRM, I really don't get this? Who cares play the game

I think the point was that the OP actually couldn't play the game because one of the DRM-enforcing services was down, so... yeah, you fail.
 
tskiller said:
does it require GFWL in single player mode?
Click to expand...

No, you can go in offline mode with Steam too, as well as using an offline profile for GFWL.

That cuts you out of multiplayer (except low-latency LAN), co-op single player, and your Achievements/score aren't recorded in offline mode.
 
is there an actual demo coming, Croak? like the OP, I wasnt interested in the beta...my gaming time is limited enough, I need to have as much fun as possible in that time not troubleshoot balance and crashes...
 
Croak said:
No, you can go in offline mode with Steam too, as well as using an offline profile for GFWL.

That cuts you out of multiplayer (except low-latency LAN), co-op single player, and your Achievements/score aren't recorded in offline mode.
Click to expand...

Wait, you can do regular multiplayer LAN, but you cant do co-op single player over a LAN without GFWL? I don't care for achievements/score or any of the social networking features, and being forced to sign up with a service I don't want or need otherwise is a huge turnoff. I've been on the fence about this game (really wish there was a demo) for awhile now - I absolutely adored the first Dawn of War, but Relic is doing a really good job of building a case as to why i shouldn't buy this game.
 
The game doesn't use DRM.
I hope they will have at the store tomorrow :p
Croak, can you please share with us how the sales went until now?
 
Croak said:
Actually, it's DRM lite, any less DRM and it would be DRM free.
Click to expand...
Depending on how you define a what constitutes a digital rights management system, that's a laughable statement. I love Steam, and have no issue with games that authorize through it, but it's not the least obtrusive system available. In my book, that would be a locally-validated game key.

There's no data available to suggest that online validation is in any way more effective at curbing casual piracy than an internally-validated key (or nothing at all).
 
Ill take more DRM as a trade for a decent save system. Playing for an hour plus, just to make it to the boss, who owns you in two seconds gets old quick.
 
This thread = epic Fail!

Relic/THQ settle on about the least intrusive system they can and people complain. I think some people will compain about anything, even free stuff. To me, it's plainly obvious that most of those compaining have never had the joy of running a business and having their hard work stolen from them. Try looking at this from a business POV for a change.
 
mstersmith1 said:
Why are you all justifying the game makers doing this to us gamers? This is not right. I already have to run a bloated operating system and now I have to run Steam (great service btw) and GWL in the background. That is bullshit. If you think this will stop pirating it will not. As soon as cacks are available people will be using them because they do want the background apps running.
Click to expand...

Honestly if you're computer takes any form of a significant performance hit from running steam/GFW then it's going to have a hard time running the game itself anyways.

Come on, I have a 30$ amd 2000 something x2 at 2.5 ghz and I have multiple programs running in the background and NEVER have a problem running a game.

Come up with another excuse.
 
Croak said:
Modest DRM can and does keep casual pirates away though. You know, the ones that will buy the game, not the ones that won't/can't buy it no matter what. And it can put a dent in Zero-Day piracy, which has a HUGE impact on sales. HUGE.

Since most PC games really only have a 2-week shelf life before sales drop dramatically (with a few exceptions), every day you can preserve in that small window of opportunity is exceptionally valuable.

That said, we opted for the least restrictive DRM we could, and like I mentioned earlier, we were thanked for this by becoming the #1 PC game download this week on torrent sites.

And DRM like we use does let us weed out the thieves from the paying customers, when it comes time to offer support. That shit costs us real money, and you'd be AMAZED at the amount of pirates that have the nerve to email or even call us with tech support issues. Amazed.
Click to expand...

Well, to be fair, this was the only big PC release other than FEAR 2 for the past few weeks, so it'll obviously be the #1 downloaded PC title for awhile... at least one of the main draws of this game is multiplayer, and a lot of pirates are actually encouraging people to buy it.
 
RAMPAGEOH said:
Actually game companies do stuff like this because people DO pirate the games. Is it the right answer? Probably not but all the PC games are going with something like this to try to recoupe the money they spend on developing a game and then making a profit to stay viable. Blizzard will be doing the same thing with the new Diablo and Starcraft games. You will have to be logged into the new Battlenet to play the games and get updates. Not everyone has the money that Blizzard has to support their own game network so lesser companies have to rely on established entities like Steam and Windows Live to protect their interest.

I don't like having all that stuff running in the background either but it is going to be a fact of life if computer gaming is to survive into the future.
Click to expand...

but still it gets pirated matey.
 
mstersmith1 said:
Why are you all justifying the game makers doing this to us gamers? This is not right. I already have to run a bloated operating system and now I have to run Steam (great service btw) and GWL in the background. That is bullshit. If you think this will stop pirating it will not. As soon as cacks are available people will be using them because they do want the background apps running.
Click to expand...
get a quad core cpu plus 4gb ram
 
I would much rather have Steam any day of the week than bullshit securom. Anyone who thinks Steam is DRM heavy is missing out on games from the one of the few (if not the only) developers/publishers who still cares about the gaming community - Valve.

Honestly, I'm not a fan of GFWL either. It's the main reason I'm holding off on a purchase. At first, I thought I understood the need to go with GFWL due to some of the issues with the home-brewed login-based DRM and lobby-based multiplayer system used with CoH. Unless there were serious improvements after the beta, GFWL is worse. I'm sure the relic developers who work on CoH's home-brewed system would feel good about hearing that, but I somehow doubt any company feels good overall when outsourcing to a product results in a worse result than using an in-house product.

CoH's system may have some downtime, but when it's up it just works. I've never seen a "sync error" since release, but these were all over the place in Beta. Automatically matched ranked matches are a joke because people just drop when they know they're going to lose, and you can't avoid joining games with these people in the future since the matches are automatically matched. Anyone who's familiar with CoH has heard the term 'pre-mades'. Three random people will get stomped by someone who invites two friends he routinely plays with to join and search for a ranked game.

The biggest annoyance of Steam not being used for matchmaking as well, is having to add all your friends again. A significant amount of PC gamers have Steam, but they may not even have an Xbox Live account unless they own an Xbox. RTS are seen as pretty much a PC exclusive genre imo. All of these people already have Steam friendslist built up. Now they have to re-add all the same people to GFWL just to invite them to play.

I'm sorry, the game is fun, I really did enjoy all the beta I played, but I truly believe GFWL was a mistake.
 
Relic has mentioned that there is no DRM on the game (other than Steam, which I don't even view as actual DRM). Their plans to combat piracy all along have been to release a steady flow for free DLC to owners of the game. I think this is a very good idea and can not wait to see it in practice. Stop coming up with reasons to hate this great game!
 
Big Lebowski - thanks for the heads up. I will not purchase this game.

Croak - did you really mean to say this? "And DRM like we use does let us weed out the thieves from the paying customers, when it comes time to offer support." You have the world upside down, sir. I'm just one person, but there are many more who feel the same way. I will not buy your game because your DRM measures are hurting honest customers more than they do anything to serve as a mild deterrent to potential pirates. You mention DRM as a way to separate "thieves" (nice choice of words, shows a complete lack of perspective on the subject) from paying customers when it's time to offer support. Surely you don't believe DRM is a proportionate way of dealing with this issue? You hinder thousands of paying customers in various ways only to separate pirates from legitimate customers so your support staff (which is very poor by the way, speaking from experience...) will have an easier time handling legitimate issues? That is madness.

Even if I knew your draconian DRM wouldn't hinder my gaming experience in the slightest, I still wouldn't support your company by purchasing the game. It's a matter of principle and I feel there are many who agree with me. Don't worry, I won't bother pirating your game either.

Croak - I hope you're a THQ employee and weren't actually involved in the creative process of making this game. If you were, you should be very ashamed. :(
 
Moogles said:
Even if I knew your draconian DRM wouldn't hinder my gaming experience in the slightest, I still wouldn't support your company by purchasing the game. It's a matter of principle and I feel there are many who agree with me. Don't worry, I won't bother pirating your game either.
Click to expand...

Do you really consider just Steam draconian DRM? You don't play any valve games?
 
MrMike said:
Do you really consider just Steam draconian DRM? You don't play any valve games?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. And I did play Valve games (TF2, HL2, Portal, etc) that I enjoyed very much. In fact Portal is probably my second favorite game of all time. The problem with Steam is that Valve gets away with it because their games and support are so good. I stopped playing Valve games after their whole dollar = euro pricing scheme fiasco. Even though I no longer play these games I can't sell them. Every game on Steam you basically rent. You can't sell these games or donate them to friends (unless they also use Steam). Steam is probably the most restrictive form of DRM there is.

Don't forget that many games (like DoW2) have DRM in ADDITION to being on Steam. For example GTA4 has SecuRom! That is absolute lunacy.

DRM is completely retarded and we need to get rid of it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top