Norco 4020 questions

daphatgrant

daphatgrant

Fi-yah!
Staff member
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
18,564
Update:03/11/09
Case modification is done :D. Start at page 2, post 57 for:
Airflow layout
LCD screen install
120mm fan installs






***New question added*** (old)

Anyone swap the pre-installed 80mm fans for 120's?


Starts here at post #35

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today the parts for my new media/file server started rolling in.

Parts list:
Norco 4020 server case
PCP P&C S75CF PSU
Abit IC7-G
P4 2.8C
1GB Corsair XMS 3200
Lite-On Slim 8X DVD Burner
(9) 1TB drives
Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 (SATA2x8)
MS WHS

I am usually good when it comes to case assembly but this one is a bit different and has caused me some confusion.

Question #1 Do I plug power into both 4pin molex plugs on each backplane that is going to be used?

Question #2 When hooking up the rest of the drives when I eventually get them am I supposed to use Y-splitters or something like this?

17pin2.jpg


Question #3
What are all these for?

Norco1.jpg


Norco2.jpg


Norco3.jpg



Thanks :).
 
Question 1 and 2: I just used molex Y-adapters and I hooked up all the molex power connectors but I believe each back plane only needs one to work.

Question 3: I am pretty sure those are for server mobos which have special heat syncs and those are needed. (socket 771). If you have a regular socket 775 board then I don't believe those are needed. I did not use them.

I am not really sure on that bottom-most pic though as my norco 4020 did not have that. Here are some pictures of my setup:

http://box.houkouonchi.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=688
 
houkouonchi said:
Question 1 and 2: I just used molex Y-adapters and I hooked up all the molex power connectors but I believe each back plane only needs one to work.

Question 3: I am pretty sure those are for server mobos which have special heat syncs and those are needed. (socket 771). If you have a regular socket 775 board then I don't believe those are needed. I did not use them.

I am not really sure on that bottom-most pic though as my norco 4020 did not have that. Here are some pictures of my setup:

http://box.houkouonchi.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=688
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info and nice build man :eek:, I am jealous that I am so far away form having this all done :p.

Since the PSU I am using is a single 12v rail PSU I assume that all the 12v power will be coming through all the 12v lines so it shouldn't matter much if there are splitters on the 4-pin molex lines since the sata plugs will not be used.

Also I see that you have (2) 4pin molex plugs connected to each backplane. I don't see purchasing some sort of Y-adapter or the (1) 4pin Female to (7) 4pin Male splitter that I linked above to be a problem especially since I plan to fill the remaining 12 bays with drives by the end of the year, so as long as hooking both up won't hurt anything I'll go ahead and buy the splitters.
 
The dual molex connectors on the backplanes are wired in parallel. I checked this with a multimeter when I got my Norco 4020. I believe there are 2 connectors because the molex connector has a theoretical current limit and 5 hard drives could possibly exceed that limit. Therefore, from an engineering standpoint, putting 2 connectors is the safe design. I just made up some adapters for mine using these connectors:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7616/ele-345/4_Pin_Low_Profile_Easy_Install_Molex_Connector_w_Cover.html?tl=g44c155s642

It really cleans up the area between the connectors and the fans. I also flipped the fan divider around so that the fans are on the motherboard side to give me more room to work the cables on the backplanes. I'll post some pictures when I get home tonight.
 
epimetheus said:
The dual molex connectors on the backplanes are wired in parallel. I checked this with a multimeter when I got my Norco 4020. I believe there are 2 connectors because the molex connector has a theoretical current limit and 5 hard drives could possibly exceed that limit. Therefore, from an engineering standpoint, putting 2 connectors is the safe design. I just made up some adapters for mine using these connectors:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7616/ele-345/4_Pin_Low_Profile_Easy_Install_Molex_Connector_w_Cover.html?tl=g44c155s642

It really cleans up the area between the connectors and the fans. I also flipped the fan divider around so that the fans are on the motherboard side to give me more room to work the cables on the backplanes. I'll post some pictures when I get home tonight.
Click to expand...

Thanks :D, I look forward to seeing the pictures.
 
Before:
DSC01360.jpg


DSC01364.jpg


After:
DSC01365.jpg


DSC01366.jpg


I'm using a BFGTech ES-800 PSU which has all of the SATA and Molex connectors on the 12V1 rail. So I split the the backplanes among the 2 molex feeds. I've got the top 3 rows on one feed and the bottom 2 on the other. I should have taken some pictures on the adapters themselves, but I'm not taking it apart now.

Flipping the fan divider worked pretty well since I'm not using an extended ATX mobo. I was able to get all the side screws back in without a problem. I could only get the center of the 3 bottom screws to line up - not real sure they all didn't line up. I checked but nothing was deformed, the holes must have been drilled out of whack originally. I did have to flip the fans to keep the front to back airflow, but I changed the fans from the original ones to quiet Panaflo's.

Overall, I'm very happy with the case. When I fill this one I will probably get another. Hey why not?
 
I just finished my WHS build last night, still one part to go, but up and running. Depending on the PSU you use will help in cable management of this case, the space between the backplane and the fan divider is tight. I was able to move my back a bit, but it is not screwed in, so I really do not recommend it. It is held in very solid, but I might need to drill my own holes to lock it down.

Here is mine before all the parts arrived and just working on cable management:
IMG_0295.jpg
 
I've got a couple questions for those running Norco cases:

What optical drive are you guys using? I'd like a slot load drive but I don't particularly want an IDE drive. Has anybody found a slot load SATA drive?

Any of you guys using rails and rackmounting the case? If so, what rail kit are you using.
 
epimetheus said:
I've got a couple questions for those running Norco cases:

What optical drive are you guys using? I'd like a slot load drive but I don't particularly want an IDE drive. Has anybody found a slot load SATA drive?

Any of you guys using rails and rackmounting the case? If so, what rail kit are you using.
Click to expand...

When I did my setup I just plugged in an optical for temporary use, then will just use an external USB drive. I will be rackmounting the case, but unsure still of what rail kit, I found on Norco's website a kit they recommend but not sure if I will use it or not.
 
epimetheus said:
Before:
[IM]http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj252/epimetheus13/DSC01360.jpg[/IMG]

[IM]http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj252/epimetheus13/DSC01364.jpg[/IMG]

After:
[IM]http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj252/epimetheus13/DSC01365.jpg[/IMG]

[IM]http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj252/epimetheus13/DSC01366.jpg[/IMG]

I'm using a BFGTech ES-800 PSU which has all of the SATA...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pics man, sparked a lot of ideas :D. I hopped on Frozen CPU and grabbed a bunch of stuff to make some make some custom cables. Here is what I came up with.

PowerLines.JPG


Disregard cable coloring.
 
daphatgrant said:
Thanks for the pics man, sparked a lot of ideas :D. I hopped on Frozen CPU and grabbed a bunch of stuff to make some make some custom cables. Here is what I came up with.

Disregard cable coloring.
Click to expand...

Looks good to me. I'd use the pass-through molex connectors for the top backplane too.
 
Quick question for everyone, what is the order of the SATA cables on the backplane to the front of the case.

Thanks.
 
The backplane connectors are arranged in the same configuration that the HD bays are, i.e. the top left bay looking from the front of the case is the top right connector looking from the rear at the backplane.
 
epimetheus said:
The backplane connectors are arranged in the same comfiguration that the HD bays are, i.e. the top left bay looking from the front of the case is the top right connector looking from the rear at the backplane.
Click to expand...

So... this is wrong... :(

IMG_4022%20%28Large%29.jpg




Damn it! :p

And it was looking so nice :D :(

IMG_4008%20%28Large%29.jpg
 
daphatgrant said:
So... this is wrong... :(

[IM]http://images.dr3vil.com//files3/3/IMG_4022%20%28Large%29.jpg[/IMG]



Damn it! :p

And it was looking so nice :D :(

[IM]http://images.dr3vil.com//files3/3/IMG_4008%20%28Large%29.jpg[/IMG]
Click to expand...

No...that looks right to me. With that cable arrangement, the trays, when looking from the front, would be 5, 6, 7, 8, left to right on the second row.

If you look at my case above, I have the left column connected, when looking from the front of the case. That corresponds to the S4 connector on the backplane.
 
epimetheus said:
No...that looks right to me. With that cable arrangement, the trays, when looking from the front, would be 5, 6, 7, 8, left to right on the second row.
Click to expand...

So the top left drive bay when looking at the front will be associated with SATA socket S4 on the top most backplane.
 
Well here's what I came up with.

Original concept based off of epimetheus's idea.

PowerLines.JPG


Actual product

IMG_0927%20%5B1024x768%5D.JPG



Backplane arrangement

IMG_0929%20%28Copy%29.JPG


IMG_0933%20%28Copy%29.JPG




HDD Power arrangement

IMG_0935%20%5B1024x768%5D.JPG




Data arrangement

IMG_0937%20%5B1024x768%5D.JPG




SATA cable arrangement (unused cables are for future additions)

IMG_0944%20%5BDesktop%20Resolution%5D.JPG


Overall view

IMG_0944%20%28Copy%29.JPG
 
I'd worry about the large current draw over so few wires. With 20 drives, you draw about 40 amps on the 12V rail. With just two chains of connectors, that's a huge amount of current per wire. This site recommends a maximum of 16 amps for 18 gauge wiring. What wire diameter does your harness have?
 
unhappy_mage said:
I'd worry about the large current draw over so few wires. With 20 drives, you draw about 40 amps on the 12V rail. With just two chains of connectors, that's a huge amount of current per wire. This site recommends a maximum of 16 amps for 18 gauge wiring. What wire diameter does your harness have?
Click to expand...

Is that 40A spinup current or running current? If it's just spinup current, than that occurs for a short enough time that you should be able to fudge a bit on the ampacity on the #18 wire. It's basically applying a load factor. What are the realistic chances of hitting that whole 40A for a continuous period of time?
 
unhappy_mage said:
I'd worry about the large current draw over so few wires. With 20 drives, you draw about 40 amps on the 12V rail. With just two chains of connectors, that's a huge amount of current per wire. This site recommends a maximum of 16 amps for 18 gauge wiring. What wire diameter does your harness have?
Click to expand...

how are you getting 40a?
if
Voltage (E) = Current (I) * Resistance (R)
Power (watts) = Current Squared (I^2) * Resistance (R)
Power = I*E = E^2 / R
And each drive consumes ~10w Then
Each drive would be consuming 0.8333a * 21 drives would be 16.8a

Also thats a PCP750 it only has a single rail with two molex leads anyhow. I think as long as you just use the connectors that you made it will be fine.

On mine im using all the molex and all the pci-e connectors, no problems.
 
To answer a couple questions, I hap hazardly followed the lead of Ockie (Self proclaimed storage king) and am using the same case, PSU, and amount of HDD's. - Link to his builds

I am using 18 gauge wire for the harness's I made.

I made sure that the PSU I bought had only (1) 12v rail.


I will however mention that making those harness's was a god damn royal pain in the ass, very well worth it in the end I believe (as long as my apt doesn't burn down), but a pita just the same.

The DIY connectors that FrozenCPU sells are made for 20 or 22 gauge wire, 18 is a little big and required that I strip the plastic sheathing around the wire in order for it to fit in the plug. Just a note in case someone looks to do this, 18g will work, you just need to strip the wire where the connection will be made first.
 
daphatgrant said:
To answer a couple questions, I hap hazardly followed the lead of Ockie (Self proclaimed storage king) and am using the same case, PSU, and amount of HDD's. - Link to his builds

I am using 18 gauge wire for the harness's I made.

I made sure that the PSU I bought had only (1) 12v rail.


I will however mention that making those harness's was a god damn royal pain in the ass, very well worth it in the end I believe (as long as my apt doesn't burn down), but a pita just the same.

The DIY connectors that FrozenCPU sells are made for 20 or 22 gauge wire, 18 is a little big and required that I strip the plastic sheathing around the wire in order for it to fit in the plug. Just a note in case someone looks to do this, 18g will work, you just need to strip the wire where the connection will be made first.
Click to expand...

You really don't have to strip the insulation off where the wire goes through the connector. Those connectors are made to pierce the insulation. You just have to have the proper punchdown tool to press the wire in there. It's very similar to 110 punchdown blocks used in network and telecom systems, except it's larger. I used some cheap disposible punchdown tools that came with network jacks I got from Home Depot. I second the PITA though - it wasn't the easiest thing to punch down that #18 wire.
 
epimetheus said:
You really don't have to strip the insulation off where the wire goes through the connector. Those connectors are made to pierce the insulation. You just have to have the proper punchdown tool to press the wire in there. It's very similar to 110 punchdown blocks used in network and telecom systems, except it's larger. I used some cheap disposible punchdown tools that came with network jacks I got from Home Depot. I second the PITA though - it wasn't the easiest thing to punch down that #18 wire.
Click to expand...

Well worth it in the end if you ask me, thanks for the tip :).
 
A cooling question about the Norco:
~Can I remove the fan divider completely and use two 80mm fans on the rear of the case and be fine for cooling? I really love this case, but the fan divider, for me, is more of a pain. With all 20 hard drive bays full, though they will probably not all be accessed at the same time, but will this be enough cooling?

Only things generating heat in my case are:
~PSU with own fan
~CPU with own fan/heatsink
~General heat from motherboard
~Hard drives in front of case

Thoughts?
 
theDreamer said:
A cooling question about the Norco:
~Can I remove the fan divider completely and use two 80mm fans on the rear of the case and be fine for cooling?
Click to expand...

No, 2 80mm fans are not enough unless they're 10,000 RPM Deltas. The fans on the divider will push air out the back through the perforations.
 
nitrobass24 said:
how are you getting 40a?
And each drive consumes ~10w Then
Click to expand...
That's the faulty assumption. I was talking about spinup; a better number then is 25W (mostly on the 12V line where the motor is), so about 2 amps per drive.
nitrobass24 said:
Also thats a PCP750 it only has a single rail with two molex leads anyhow. I think as long as you just use the connectors that you made it will be fine.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I guess it's not a big problem. I just like my systems built to handle peak loads continuously. It's probably okay in this case since the wire won't wear out over time like PSU capacitors do.
 
This has sparked me to want to make my own cables for my Norco.

I was looking on frozencpu at wire but it does not say how much(length) wire you get with each unit.
How does that work? I cant imagine that .20 gets you much. How should I go about figuring how much to order?

Also any suggestions, things you would do differently?
 
daphatgrant said:
Today the parts for my new media/file server started rolling in.

Parts list:
Norco 4020 server case
PCP P&C S75CF PSU
Abit IC7-G
P4 2.8C
1GB Corsair XMS 3200
Lite-On Slim 8X DVD Burner
(9) 1TB drives
Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 (SATA2x8)
MS WHS

I am usually good when it comes to case assembly but this one is a bit different and has caused me some confusion.

Question #1 Do I plug power into both 4pin molex plugs on each backplane that is going to be used?

Question #2 When hooking up the rest of the drives when I eventually get them am I supposed to use Y-splitters or something like this?

17p2.jpg


Question #3
What are all these for?

rco1.jpg


Nco2.jpg


rco3.jpg



Thanks :).
Click to expand...


1 - Yes
2 - You can use Y-Splitters or a chain cable
3a - These are Xeon heatsink mounts, this allows you to attach your xeon heatsinks directly to the chassis.
3b - These are PSU mount points, so you can actually bolt your psu down for added support/strength

daphatgrant said:
To answer a couple questions, I hap hazardly followed the lead of Ockie (Self proclaimed storage king) and am using the same case, PSU, and amount of HDD's. - Link to his builds

I am using 18 gauge wire for the harness's I made.

I made sure that the PSU I bought had only (1) 12v rail.


I will however mention that making those harness's was a god damn royal pain in the ass, very well worth it in the end I believe (as long as my apt doesn't burn down), but a pita just the same.

The DIY connectors that FrozenCPU sells are made for 20 or 22 gauge wire, 18 is a little big and required that I strip the plastic sheathing around the wire in order for it to fit in the plug. Just a note in case someone looks to do this, 18g will work, you just need to strip the wire where the connection will be made first.
Click to expand...

You should take it a step furher (although now its kinda too late) and make your harnesses longer, de-sauder the psu pcb to system only components, and then sauder your harness directly on the board. It would look super duper clean.

nitrobass24 said:
This has sparked me to want to make my own cables for my Norco.

I was looking on frozencpu at wire but it does not say how much(length) wire you get with each unit.
How does that work? I cant imagine that .20 gets you much. How should I go about figuring how much to order?

Also any suggestions, things you would do differently?
Click to expand...

Typically wire is sold by the foot.
 
nitrobass24 said:
This has sparked me to want to make my own cables for my Norco.

I was looking on frozencpu at wire but it does not say how much(length) wire you get with each unit.
How does that work? I cant imagine that .20 gets you much. How should I go about figuring how much to order?

Also any suggestions, things you would do differently?
Click to expand...

I believe a unit is a foot. I orded 10 feet of black 18 ga. and used just about all of it on the 4 adapters I made (see pics earlier in the this thread).
 
Ockie said:
You should take it a step furher (although now its kinda too late) and make your harnesses longer, de-sauder the psu pcb to system only components, and then sauder your harness directly on the board. It would look super duper clean.
Click to expand...

To take Ockie's suggestion even a step further you could use jacketed cable rather than individual conductors. I did this for a mod a few years ago. I used 4 conductor 16ga. in-wall speaker cable. That psu was beautiful.
 
Well I'm back at it again with more questions :p.

Has anyone replaced the 80mm fans with 120's? My current living situation puts me in a 335sqft apt and this thing (not that I didn't anticipate this) sounds like a jet engine :p. I measured it out and I should be able to put (3) 120's in the current fan divider after some modification and 1 in the back where there is currently (2) 80's again after some modification.

Just curious, as I will most likely do this whether or not other have tried it unless I am given some reasons not to alter the current setup, excluding voiding any warranty ;).
 
If you already measured it and confirmed that the fans would fit, then I see no reason why not (so long as you know what you're doing). Are you sure a 120mm fan can fit in the back though? It doesn't look like it would looking at pictures that others have posted.
 
SockMan! said:
Are you sure a 120mm fan can fit in the back though? It doesn't look like it would looking at pictures that others have posted.
Click to expand...

Just barely fits :D. I just figured I'd see if anyone else had done this. Those 80's that come with it are loud as hell :eek:.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top