Happy with new Samsung T260 but quesitoning Xbox gaming (Includes Impression & Pics!)

Before I begin discussing the monitor, I'd like everyone to know that I'm in no way an expert when it comes to LCDs (this is really scary considering I'm graduating from Rutgers this summer with an ITI degree ).

Although my technical expertise is pretty shallow, I have had experience with a handful of monitors prior to using the T260:

Samsung 204B - First monitor. It had no backlight bleeding and produced rich colors. Loved this monitor dearly. Its excellence was only limited by its comparably small size.

HP W2207 - Cosmetically stunning IMHO. Blacklight bleeding was nonexistent and colors came through accurately. I had a prob with the glossy screen. Despite turning down brightness and contrast, I felt like I was staring into the sun each time I viewed the monitor.

Samsung 245BW - This was my favorite monitor. Colors were excellent, movies were breathtaking, gaming was really enjoyable, OSD buttons were extremely easy to use, and the stand was perfect. Like all things in life, it had a few flaws that took away from all its glory. The monitor didn't display angles well. Viewing from the left or right was definitely not an option. This never seemed to be an issue for me since I sat eye level with the monitor majority of the time. Who the hell, other than guests, spends all day viewing a monitor from its side lol? The viewing angles weren’t the nail in the coffin however. The issue that led to its sale on Ebay was its inability to scale the Xbox 360 properly This is a real shame considering it was such an excellent monitor otherwise.

BenQ G2400WD - Looking for a monitor to scale my Xbox properly, I decided to give this LCD a try. Unlike my prior monitors, getting colors to appear correctly was impossible. 10e provided me with his calibration for the V2400W. The profile helped but things still appeared off. It wasn't so much that the monitor displayed inaccurate colors, but it seemed to be a step down in color accuracy, richness, and vividness when compared with my previous monitors. In my opinion, this was my first LCD monitor that displayed a "true LCD like" picture. The other LCD monitors displayed picture, of course not equal to, but somewhat comparable to image found on CRTs. It did well in scaling the Xbox 360 but failed to live up to my past experience with past LCDs for everyday computer use (browsing the internet, looking at pictures, viewing movies). The stand sucked but could be replaced with another. The OSD buttons were very annoying to use. Not that it matters too much to me, but it was by far the most cosmetically unappealing monitor I've ever owned. Overall, my most disliked LCD yet.

Not happy with the G2400WD, I shipped it back to Buy.com and purchased a T260 in hopes of finding a monitor that suited common computer needs while also displaying console gaming correctly.

All pictures are via HDMI and DVI.

Blacklight bleeding is almost completely unnoticeable. This is a sigh of relief considering forum members were complaining about horrible backlight bleed coming from the T220.

Here is are two pics of the barely noticeable backlight bleed. The bleeding is most noticeable when brightness and contrast are both turned up to the max. To my knowledge (correct if I'm wrong), this holds true to all LCD monitors. The higher the brightness and contrast the more apparent the bleed will be.

The brightness and contrast is maxed out in the following pic:



The brightness and contrast is set to 70 in this pic:



So far, I don’t think there are any dead pixels.

Here are a few pics of the screen displaying IGN.com and my desktop. I took a side and a top down picture for all those interested in viewing angles. For the most part, viewing angles are better than the 245BW. However, I wouldn't go as far as to invite a group of friends over to watch a DVD with the T260. After all, it’s still a TN.















Finally, I'll share some photos of it displaying over my Xbox 360. This is where my knowledge of LCDs becomes very limited, so please excuse any incorrect assumptions or overly simple questions. I’m not sure if the monitor has 1:1 pixel mapping. Not having much experience with LCDs hooking up to gaming consoles, I’m having trouble telling the difference between distorted and proper gaming image. The monitor automatically goes into AV mode when I use the Xbox. There are three options in AV mode (4:3, Wide, Just Scan). Just scan seems to provide the correct picture I’m looking for, wide stretches the image, and 4:3 squeezes the picture by including left and right sidebars. The monitor only has two image scaling options with AV mode off (Auto & Wide). Since there is no option for 1:1 like the BenQs, does this automatically mean the monitor is not capable of displaying proper 1:1 pixel mapping?

Xbox 360 displaying Mass Effect:

AV Mode On using “Just Scan”



AV Mode On using “4:3”



AV Mode On using “Wide”



AV Mode Off using “Automatic or Wide” (The picture is the same with both selections)




Xbox 360 displaying Dynasty Warriors 6:

AV Mode On using “Just Scan”



AV Mode On using “Wide”



AV Mode Off using “Automatic or Wide”



My impressions on the image quality of everyday usages (internet browsing, movie watching **haven't done too much of this yet**, viewing pictures, word processing, reading text) :

The picture so far, at least for everyday computer uses, has been excellent. I'm happy to have a monitor that has a picture on par with my past experiences. The monitor hasn't been calibrated yet but colors still appear to be quite good. Text is extremely legible. Internet browsing is highly enjoyable while using this panel.


My impressions on the overall gaming image:

The picture looks OK when gaming. It’s not bad but it certainly isn’t breathtaking. I wonder if the other model (T260HD) displays better…. To be honest, this whole experience has been frustrating. If I had the financial stability, I would simply buy a monitor for PC use and a HD television for gaming. This would be the end of my issues. However, I’m stuck with using a PC LCD for console gaming purposes. In my opinion, electronical devices seem to work best when you use them for their "orginal" purpose. In this case, the Samsung's main purpose is to serve as a PC LCD monitor. Thats why it performs its "main" purpose (common PC practices) better than its secondary bonus (console gaming).


Important to keep in mind: I've messed around with the colors, brightness, contrast, sharpness etc... while having AV mode off but it still seems to have inferior picture when compared to AV Mode being on.

I wish I still had the BenQ to compare this monitor to. Since the BenQ has been proven to display proper scaling, I would simply compare the T260 and G2400WD side by side. The problem was Buy.com returns policy. I had 14 days to return it and it took me a little over a week to decide the monitor wasn’t for me.

It would be “REALLY LAME” if this monitor doesn’t display the Xbox properly. I would totally sh!t myself. Returning monitors wouldn’t be an issue if I was dealing with BB or Circuit City. Unfortunately, I do my electronic purchasing online due to price differentials. Buy.com accepts returns but you pay for return shipping. The BenQ G2400WD costs me exactly $30 to return. If I was to now return the T260, I would be spending a total of $60 - $70 dollars in shipping fees. With college loans to pay back and the CC companies waiting for their monthly payments (they’re freaking mobs a tell you), I can’t afford to be spending so recklessly.

I think I prefer to have the monitor on AV Mode On with Just Scan selected as the picture. It tends to be a bit more sharp. Without the AV mode on, the colors appear a bit washed out and the image becomes dull. Anyone else agree with me here?

Can someone please assist me in figuring out if the picture is displaying properly via the Xbox? To be more specific by what I mean when I use the term “properly”, does this monitor display images better or equal to other current LCDs on the market?

Thanks for the help.

~Rippa~

I'm not expert either, but that monitor looks pretty good to me. I've got a Samsung LN-S3241D, a standard 720P hdtv which I use for PC gaming and Xbox360. The picture on those shots look as good or better than what I've seen with my Samsung. Thats definitely a decent unit you bought, good viewing angles, etc.

It sounds like you have a problem with the aspect ratio. How are you plugging the Xbox360 into the monitor? You need the VGA adapter if you want control over the resolution. With the VGA adapter it gives you more options on the Xbox settings for resolutions. Thats what I'm using so that I can play Xbox360 at the native resolution of my monitor. Otherwise it scales the image internally and maybe that is what is bothering you.

Great pictures, they will help many people when deciding to purchase this monitor.

cybereality said:

I'm not expert either, but that monitor looks pretty good to me. I've got a Samsung LN-S3241D, a standard 720P hdtv which I use for PC gaming and Xbox360. The picture on those shots look as good or better than what I've seen with my Samsung. Thats definitely a decent unit you bought, good viewing angles, etc.

It sounds like you have a problem with the aspect ratio. How are you plugging the Xbox360 into the monitor? You need the VGA adapter if you want control over the resolution. With the VGA adapter it gives you
more options on the Xbox settings for resolutions. Thats what I'm using so that I can play Xbox360 at the native resolution of my monitor. Otherwise it scales the image internally and maybe that is what is bothering you.

Click to expand...

I own the updated 360 that has an HDMI port so I'm connect over a HDMI cable.

I have little experience with monitors displaying the Xbox 360 so I'm not sure if the scaling is correct. Something seems a "smidge off" though when I'm running the game.It's possible I'm being a bit overcritical of the monitor. But I paid exactly $499 for the thing so I think my criticism is well deserved. Maybe it's just me being paranoid lol or simply my inexperience with gaming over LCDs.

Forgot to mention, the monitor doesn't seem to accept the Xbox's 1080p setting. When I try setting it to 1080p the screen becomes completely black and looses signal. Every other resolution works correctly though (1080i, 720p, 480p)

I noticed the picture scales slightly better (maybe even has a higher quality picture) when using 720p. The 1080i appears to be stretched a bit vertically while the 720p looks more squared off. I've only tried 720p using Mass Effect though. Funny thing is the monitor was designed for 1080 settings.

Has anyone else had experiences where their 1080p monitor displayed better under when running under 720p on their Xbox?

I don't get why there's no pictures from slightly below the screen? My 2405 currently is at eye-level >> 40% mark (if you set 0% as the top of the monitor, 100% as the bottom). E.g. ~6" above the desk and 2' away horizontally.

Isn't the weak point of TN's looking from the bottom-to-top compared to the opposite? If anything those pictures would be far more important.

Mav451 said:

I don't get why there's no pictures from slightly below the screen? My 2405 currently is at eye-level >> 40% mark (if you set 0% as the top of the monitor, 100% as the bottom). E.g. ~6" above the desk and 2' away horizontally.

Isn't the weak point of TN's looking from the bottom-to-top compared to the opposite? If anything those pictures would be far more important.

Click to expand...

There are no bottom-to-top pics because, as stated in the beginning of the thread, my knowledge of LCDs is very limited. After taking what you said into consideration, I placed the LCD at the edge of my desk to get a good look from the bottom and noticed that the image was worse than the top-down. The distortion was important enough that it warranted a post of pics. I wasn't surprised since it's a TN panel but thought others would be interested in seeing some pictures.

The pictures aren't as accurate as the ones already posted due to the horrible lighting in my room. Put it simply, I have no light in my room lol. Included is a desktop background similar to the one found in my earlier posting. I got mixed up and chose one that was almost identical to the desktop found in the first pictures . I meant to use the same desktop background as before... oh well still did the job. It also includes the same IGN webpage shown earlier.

Thanks dude.

I figure that these are worst case scenarios, since the max angle of deviation of my slouch is maybe 12-17 degrees (from horizon), depending on my slouch.

I've been doing some more research on the scaling issue to better understand what the problem is. Now I better understand the problem with the common 16:10 aspect ratio found on almost all monitors stretching the 16:9 ratio of the Xbox. You would think Microsoft would’ve addressed this issue with their latest revisions of the system….

Being the inexperienced LCD tech that I am, I’ve just figured out that an aspect ratio of 16:9 translates to a 1920 X 1080 resolution. After this discovery, I noticed something that may shed light on the T260’s ability to scale the Xbox 360’s picture properly.

The OSD information section displays a resolution of 1920 X 1080 when running 1080i over the Xbox 360.

Here is a pic showing what I’m referring to:



The OSD information section displays a resolution of 1280 X 720 when using 720p:



One more pic (over 1080i) of the Xbox 360 dashboard without the obstructing OSD menu:



My 3 questions are as follows:

1. Wouldn’t the monitor be showing a stretched image only if it was displaying 1920 X 1200 in the information OSD section? Or is the information section displaying 1920 X 1080 but still stretching it since the monitor’s native resolution is 1920 X 1200?

2. I’ve been reading many threads from other forums with members who state that the 16:9 image is being stretched to 16:10 when black bars aren’t present. However, I believe there is an option in the BenQG2400WD that scales the image properly without using the black bars. I think the option was “full”. I owned it about a week ago but I’m forgetting things here and there. So, can a display produce a proper 16:9 picture without using black bars?

3. Does the stretching occur when hooking the Xbox360 up via HDMI? Is the issue only limited to VGA connections?

Thanks for the assistance.

Hey Rippaman,

To answer your questions:

1) Monitors can often display what the image should be (ie. 1920x1080 or 1080i/p) in the information section but they still scale stuff wrong.
2) A properly scaled image is one that maintains it's original aspect ratio. You can get caveman on it and grab a tape measure and calculate the image ratio by measuring the height and width, but ultimately if the image is 16:9, and the monitor is showing 16:10, it's displaying an incorrect aspect ratio
3) The only monitor that I have used that can do all connections correctly (including component) with 720p/1080i/1080p is the BenQ FP241 series with June 2007 or later firmware. The only monitor I have used that can also do 480p properly (but only has DVI and VGA) is the NEC LCD2690WuXi-BK. Even the FP241 fails the 480p test. This is important for WII users.

The only mode the T260 is doing aspect ratio correctly (but cutting off left and right) is the AV Wide mode. All others seem stretched. Even the AV wide mode is cutting off the sides because it is stretching the image vertically to 1200 pixels, which means horizontally (if aspect ratio is being maintained) it's going to 2132 pixels, cutting off about 106 pixels per side.

Otherwise the image looks good. Thanks a lot for the shots Rippaman.

The 2493HM did the same thing when I tested it.

Regards,

10e

10e said:

Hey Rippaman,

To answer your questions:
ratio. You can get caveman on it and grab a tape measure and calculate the image ratio by measuring the height and width, but ultimately if the image is 16:9, and the monitor is showing 16:10, it's displaying an incorrect aspect ratio
1) Monitors can often display what the image should be (ie. 1920x1080 or 1080i/p) in the information section but they still scale stuff wrong.
2) A properly scaled image is one that maintains it's original aspect
3) The only monitor that I have used that can do all connections correctly (including component) with 720p/1080i/1080p is the BenQ FP241 series with June 2007 or later firmware. The only monitor I have used that can also do 480p properly (but only has DVI and VGA) is the NEC LCD2690WuXi-BK. Even the FP241 fails the 480p test. This is important for WII users.

The only mode the T260 is doing aspect ratio correctly (but cutting off left and right) is the AV Wide mode. All others seem stretched. Even the AV wide mode is cutting off the sides because it is stretching the image vertically to 1200 pixels, which means horizontally (if aspect ratio is being maintained) it's going to 2132 pixels, cutting off about 106 pixels per side.

Otherwise the image looks good. Thanks a lot for the shots Rippaman.

The 2493HM did the same thing when I tested it.

Regards,

10e

Click to expand...

Thanks 10e for the informative reply. I'm not sure if I can stomach another monitor return. It will cost another $30 to return the T260 . However, I will admit that the image looks "a bit" off while gaming over the Xbox 360.

Does it warrant a return? Not sure really since the stretching looks more apparent depending on the game playing. Mass Effect looks worse than GTA IV.

I wish I were one of those people who settle for second rate picture. Some people would look at the T260 when playing the Xbox 360 and say everything looks perfect. For example, my brother says it looks fine and I'm obsessed with finding the "perfect" monitor. The truth is… I’m not looking for the perfect monitor. I just need one that displays the Xbox 360 properly and suits my needs for everyday PC tasks.

I've noticed that things appear a little better when I run games over 720p. I tried reading forums to understand how upscaling works, but I'm still somewhat shaky with my comprehension.

Using a 16:10 monitor to display a 16:9 image, does running in 720p produce less upscaling (hence better picture) than 1080i?

In theory, 1080i would be closer to native res (1080pix vs. 1200)...but the it's not progressive. OTOH, 720p is progressive, but you're scaling it up AND stretching (assuming fixed aspect scaling). Remember that the ideal is to simply chop off the extra pixels (black bars) - so the image you see is not overly stretched.

I think it's easier to be explained in Photoshop - just draw a 1920x1200 pixel space.
Then create a few extra drawings - e.g. 1280 x 720, 1280 x 800 (16:10 equivalent) and a 1920 x 1080 shape. Play around with the transparencies...it'll become clearer I think.

Mav451 said:

In theory, 1080i would be closer to native res (1080pix vs. 1200)...but the it's not progressive. OTOH, 720p is progressive, but you're scaling it up AND stretching (assuming fixed aspect scaling). Remember that the ideal is to simply chop off the extra pixels (black bars) - so the image you see is not overly stretched.

I think it's easier to be explained in Photoshop - just draw a 1920x1200 pixel space.
Then create a few extra drawings - e.g. 1280 x 720, 1280 x 800 (16:10 equivalent) and a 1920 x 1080 shape. Play around with the transparencies...it'll become clearer I think.

Click to expand...

Thanks Mav. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic and critical when it comes to Xbox gaming on these PC monitors. I preferred the option of "full", which probably stretched the image, over the 1:1 mapping when using the BenQ G2400WD. Therefore, it’s possible that I personally don’t mind playing on a stretched image. Adding to this, would I’ve even noticed the stretching was occurring if I never knew about the issue to begin with?

I wish I had the funds to purchase an HDTV and forget about all this scaling BS.

Do you notice any input lag on this display? Do you have the ability to test for it?

I'm not sure about the input lag on the LCD as I only game with my console. Testing for input lag requires a CRT, correct? If so, I don't own one and wouldn't be able to run a test.

What about the dynamic contrast? How does it perform in dark scenes?

theriverlethe said:

What about the dynamic contrast? How does it perform in dark scenes?

Click to expand...

I haven't had the chance to view DVDs that much but Dynamic Contrast seems to be working well for video games. I prefer to use the other preset picture options though when gaming like "games" or "movies"

Hey rippaman77, does the monitor show ANY black bars at all when displaying 1080p or 720p with the Xbox 360? I cannot tell from you pictures as all I can see are the bright images.

Since the monitor itself physically has 1900 X 1200 there must be black bars for it to display those resolutions with 1:1 pixel mapping accuracy.

For 1080p there should only be black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. For 720p there should be black bars all around top, bottom, left, and right sides of the active image. I was thinking of buying this monitor (was researching at this very moment) but if it will not display 1:1 pixel mapping correctly I will not.

Is that a red stuck pixel in the lower left of the screen?

GORANKAR said:

Is that a red stuck pixel in the lower left of the screen?

Click to expand...

No it's my camera (ran a test with dead pixel buddy to check for them). Look at the pictures and you'll notice that there are red dots in pics where the monitor's screen isn't in place. For example, the side pics of the monitor.

Funny you mentioned it though. I saw it when I was taking pictures and almost fell out my chair LMAO. Was more than relieved when I found out it was only my cam

rippaman77 said:

No it's my camera (ran a test with dead pixel buddy to check for them). Look at the pictures and you'll notice that there are red dots in pics where the monitor's screen isn't in place. For example, the side pics of the monitor.

Funny you mentioned it though. I saw it when I was taking pictures and almost fell out my chair LMAO. Was more than relieved when I found out it was only my cam

Click to expand...

Good deal. Red or white stuck pixels are prolly the worst imo. My eyes go right to them. Is the camera still in warranty?

Hello everyone. Did anyone get any real real number on input lag on this T260 ? This is the last thing which holds me from getting it.
Thanks.

Awesome pictures! Thank you so much. I was about to buy the 2400wd when newegg had the promo for 350$ shipped, but I knew I wouldn't be happy with that so I waited. Seeing this makes me not want it's brother the v2400 also because they use the same screen and there's no vesa.

Note that Microsoft's next update for the Xbox360 will include 16:10 support. They have confirmed support for 1440*990 and 1680*1050. I'm not sure about 1920*1200, but I would sure hope so.