<-- Watercooling n00bcake...Help me get going...

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rsgunter

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
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Yeah yeah, air cooling doesn't do it for me like it used to. I don't like being a made and dusting out my ultra 120 just to keep my temps down. :p

I'm trying to study all I can on WCing but have a few questions.

1)
This one...
http://www.petrastechshop.com/aqmpspliedun.html
or this one.
http://www.petrastechshop.com/swapgtxcpuwa.html

2)
Is getting the most expensive tubing best? I'm planning on 1/2" ID 3/4" OD.

3)
Buy coolant or just treat distilled water with anti bacterials and stuff like that?

4)
Pumps? Petras Tech Shop has a nice looking one, which is important because I have a windowed case.
http://www.petrastechshop.com/laddcwpeddto.html
I'm also looking at the Swifttech.
I plan on adding VC watercooling in the future, so I figured a bigger pump now would be better.

5)
I have a CM Stacker and DD made a shroud that fits a dual radiator on the bottom of the case so no modding is involved. Would this be enough or should I add ANOTHER radiator along with this one?

6)
Should I have both a fillport and a drain port?

I'll stop there. I am wanting to get a very nice and good looking set up. I really want to stay out of the ghetto rigging if possible. :p I do plan to OC like mad. I could do it on air but temps kept going up because of dust and what not. And I want it cooler. Thanks in advance for the help.
 
I know. :) I just had to have like 8 120s in my case to keep it at temps I liked, and that got absurd.
 
2)
Is getting the most expensive tubing best? I'm planning on 1/2" ID 3/4" OD.

No, makes no diff. Tygon is super clear but I'd say that's about it. I've tried Tygon, Clearflex, Masterkleer, and others. Some new anti-bacterial tubing has been tossed around....probably a complete waste of money.

3)
Buy coolant or just treat distilled water with anti bacterials and stuff like that?

Distilled water is okay if you do not mix metals in your loop (i.e. don't use copper with aluminum). Coolant is a safer choice. Fluid XP is a waste of money. Just go with some G11 from Petrastech or some of that Zalman G200, etc. It's pretty much the same result at the end of the day.

4)
Pumps? Petras Tech Shop has a nice looking one, which is important because I have a windowed case.
http://www.petrastechshop.com/laddcwpeddto.html
I'm also looking at the Swifttech.
I plan on adding VC watercooling in the future, so I figured a bigger pump now would be better.

MCP655 is a great pump. High flow rate. Petras also has that modified Petrastech top on a DDC2 or something along those lines, which has a flow rate almost equivalent to the 655.

5)
I have a CM Stacker and DD made a shroud that fits a dual radiator on the bottom of the case so no modding is involved. Would this be enough or should I add ANOTHER radiator along with this one?

You only need two rads if you're cooling a monster rig, such as a set of 8800 GTXs and a highly overclocked CPU. It's definitely more hassle to put together and maintain, so I'd recommend a single triple rad, which should pretty much handle anything you throw at it. A double rad will cool an E6700 down to about 32c idle, 35c load at ambient of 22c, for reference. That's with no GPUs on it.

6)
Should I have both a fillport and a drain port?

Fillport is only required if you a) have a T-line (don't bother) and b) have a reservoir you can't get to because it's in a tight spot. Better to get a res like an EK150 or 200 or something along those lines and not bother with the fillport. You won't need it. It really depends on how you set up your rig as to whether or not you'll need a fill port.
 
masaville said:
You only need two rads if you're cooling a monster rig, such as a set of 8800 GTXs and a highly overclocked CPU. It's definitely more hassle to put together and maintain, so I'd recommend a single triple rad, which should pretty much handle anything you throw at it. A double rad will cool an E6700 down to about 32c idle, 35c load at ambient of 22c, for reference. That's with no GPUs on it.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I do plan on having SLI watercooled at some point. The reason I was talking about getting two rads was because I can easily mount a double in the bottom with the shroud that DD sells. Why is it so hard to maintain 2?
 
Not a terrible pain, but when you have to drain you'll have a bit of extra work to do.
 
the laing dcc pumps are great... i own one with the alphacool top...

also 1x240mm fan is enough...

if you get a good rad it will be enough even for a moster dual 8800gtx...

like this
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=200&products_id=3943

or the HE series with some 120x38mm panaflo M1A's would be great for anything

the PE series would be good with some yate-loons or the MA1s @ 7v

the petras kits are good but the thermochill radiators are the best... I own and use a BIP 240mm and it works fine...
 
Adidas4275 said:
the laing dcc pumps are great... i own one with the alphacool top...

also 1x240mm fan is enough...

if you get a good rad it will be enough even for a moster dual 8800gtx...

like this
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=200&products_id=3943

or the HE series with some 120x38mm panaflo M1A's would be great for anything

the PE series would be good with some yate-loons or the MA1s @ 7v

the petras kits are good but the thermochill radiators are the best... I own and use a BIP 240mm and it works fine...
Click to expand...

Wow, I didn't realize those duals were so damn good. I'll really have to check on that one. :D
 
If you're planning on going 8800GTX SLI, and want respectable temperatures, you'll need a triple radiator...
 
I disagree..

you will need a triple BIP or something like that .....

the thermochill PA 240mm with high CFM fans will handle 2 8800gtx with anything but a core2quad and a chipset and HDDs.....

http://www.overclockers.com/articles778/

i could be wrong the heat dump of an 8800gtx is a lot but i am fairly sure that the 2x120 PA series with some M1A fans will be adequate...

It definately would be more than adiquate for a single 8800gtx
 
RSGunter, what are the specs of your system currently, and what it will be when you SLI?

If you are running a quadcore and dual 8800GTX's, I would say setup two loops with PA120.2's.

Each 8800GTX can dump almost 200W of heat into a loop, and you will need a good 2x120MM radiator to keep em cool. A PA120.2 will keep them decently cool, but remember that these things Idle in the 50's on stock cooling at stock clocks, so don't expect super low temps (I get low 40's idling when my CPU idles in the low 20's).

Quadcores also dump alot of heat, pushing 130W of heat at stock (climbing steadily when overclocked). Also, they are still foreign beasts to cool, and they still do not have the most efficient cooling blocks for them out (but the Fuzion does come close!). This is why I would recomend a PA120.2 for just the CPU. Keep the water temps low, and you will have cooler CPU, IE higher overclocking. If you are using a C2D, you can get a good clock on a PA120.1 or a MCR220.
 
Jomanscool2 said:
RSGunter, what are the specs of your system currently, and what it will be when you SLI?

If you are running a quadcore and dual 8800GTX's, I would say setup two loops with PA120.2's.

Each 8800GTX can dump almost 200W of heat into a loop, and you will need a good 2x120MM radiator to keep em cool. A PA120.2 will keep them decently cool, but remember that these things Idle in the 50's on stock cooling at stock clocks, so don't expect super low temps (I get low 40's idling when my CPU idles in the low 20's).

Quadcores also dump alot of heat, pushing 130W of heat at stock (climbing steadily when overclocked). Also, they are still foreign beasts to cool, and they still do not have the most efficient cooling blocks for them out (but the Fuzion does come close!). This is why I would recomend a PA120.2 for just the CPU. Keep the water temps low, and you will have cooler CPU, IE higher overclocking. If you are using a C2D, you can get a good clock on a PA120.1 or a MCR220.
Click to expand...

Right now I don't plan on doing any VC cooling. I'm currently running one 7800GTX but plan on having two of the newer DX 10 cards, wether it be ATI or Nv. They will be the top of the line versions.

The processor is a E6600.
I'll be upgrading from a 965 to a 680i when I upgrade to the cards.

I guess what I'm trying to avoid is under doing anything. I'd rather just have it all overkill now so I don't have to worry about additional cooling later.

I guess I'll be upgrading my power supply as well from my HX620.

So in short, the future plans are
E6600 paired with a 680i
2 DX 10 cards

I suppose watercooling HDDs and ram is an option as well, but for now I'll keep those on the back burner.
 
If you're going to go dual card + conroe... you need a triple radiator.

The PA series rads are the best.
 
So far I've decided on:
PA 120.3 w/fan shroud ~150
10' of tubing(i'll need extra. :p) ~15(at most)
EK Res250 ~55

I'm debating on pumps and a CPU block.
The Swiftech DC-5 does the most damage at 411gph but is friggin' huge.
The Laing DCC -2 with the Petras top looks better, is more versitle, and smaller. 250gph.

How much do I need pumping through a system before Diminishing Returns comes into play?
Is 411 really necessary for what I'm wanting to do?

CPU Block is another concern. Aquacomputer, Swifttech, or Aquaxtreme?
http://sharkacomputers.com/aqcocuxtcpub.html
http://www.petrastechshop.com/swapgtxcpuwa.html
http://www.petrastechshop.com/aqmpspliedun.html

I couldn't really find a source where they were all compared. :)
 
Tubing, I'd get MasterKleer. At $0.30 a foot, its a bargain!

For the pump, I'd get a DDC-@ witht he top. Its whisper quiet, and still pushes plenty! (Unless your using it to filer your pool :D)

Waterblock, I'd get a D-Tek Fuzion or an Apogee GT. While others disagree, I sitll dont trust the GTX's aluminium top.
 
Jomanscool2 said:
Tubing, I'd get MasterKleer. At $0.30 a foot, its a bargain!

For the pump, I'd get a DDC-@ witht he top. Its whisper quiet, and still pushes plenty! (Unless your using it to filer your pool :D)

Waterblock, I'd get a D-Tek Fuzion or an Apogee GT. While others disagree, I sitll dont trust the GTX's aluminium top.
Click to expand...

QFT
 
Alrighty! Well then!

RadPA 120.3 with fan shroud ~150
Not sure about fans yet. I'd like to keep them fairly quiet.
CPU BlockD-Tek Fuzion Universal ~65
PumpLaing DDC /Petra top ~100 http://www.petrastechshop.com/laddcwpeddto.html
ResEK Res 250 ~ 55
Tubing10' Masterkeeper Tubing ~5

So you guys are sure I shouldn't rig up a fillport/res?
Should I put the rad on the bottom or top of my Stacker?
Should the rad fans be pushing or pulling?

Thanks!
 
rsgunter said:
Alrighty! Well then!

RadPA 120.3 with fan shroud ~150
Not sure about fans yet. I'd like to keep them fairly quiet.
CPU BlockD-Tek Fuzion Universal ~65
PumpLaing DDC /Petra top ~100 http://www.petrastechshop.com/laddcwpeddto.html
ResEK Res 250 ~ 55
Tubing10' Masterkeeper Tubing ~5

So you guys are sure I shouldn't rig up a fillport/res?
Should I put the rad on the bottom or top of my Stacker?
Should the rad fans be pushing or pulling?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

fillport/res : just depends on what you like. I think fillports look pretty ugly. I like the res because easy to drain and I just like the water in it (feng shui, haha). but definitely have 1 or the other or both if you want.

if you have the holes in the bottom then sure, put in the bottom

push.


fans: these are the best: Yate loon, quiet and quite powerful.
 
saranya said:
if you have the holes in the bottom then sure, put in the bottom
Click to expand...

Well kinda, i have a small hole that would have to end up a lot damned bigger to fit it. :)

Also, is there a black dye for water? I really hate to pay for fluid XP just because I want black fluid. :)
 
Uhh, avoid the dyes unless you really want the look. Best just to stick to a 95:5 concentration on distilled and antifreeze like the G11 from petra's.

Top or bottom of the stacker depends on your personal tastes, just be sure to change the screw on the end of the PA120.3 to the brass one with the rubber washer they send you (I didn't and had to drain/refill my system because it was leaking!). This screw is to release air if the radiator is at the top of your loop, but if you have it at the bottom, some gentle rocking gets the air out of it.

Regarding push or pull, it does not really matter with the PA120.3. With other rads, it is typically recomended to do push because they need the static pressure, but the PA series is designed for low airflow, so both work just about the same. I like pull because then the tubing is closer to the case and can be turned earlier. :)

And, as stated, grab 3 YL D12SL-12s and put it on your radiator. They work perfectally with the PA series.
 
I was going to go for the YL. Great fans at a great price. :)

So this setup will get me great cooling results for when I start OCing?
 
rsgunter said:
I was going to go for the YL. Great fans at a great price. :)

So this setup will get me great cooling results for when I start OCing?
Click to expand...

A PA120.3 on only a CPU? Can't get much better until you start going below ambient.

It will keep your system as CPU as your block can pull the heat off the block. Make sure the block gets seated properly and you use the AS5 properly.
 
you could always get 6 YLs in a push/pull situation at 7v they would be great....

IMO

oh and make sure and post pics when it is all built.... :)
 
6 YL fans in push pull could operate at around 4.2v and still cool a quad core conroe.

That's massive silence btw.
 
Jomanscool2 said:
A PA120.3 on only a CPU? Can't get much better until you start going below ambient.

It will keep your system as CPU as your block can pull the heat off the block. Make sure the block gets seated properly and you use the AS5 properly.
Click to expand...

LOL, maybe I wasn't clear enough. :p I meant for future aspirations as well.

Silence is important to me. I considered 6 YLs but I was wondering how much that would actually help. :) I was thinking of buying a couple of fan controllers and going with 6 YLs. I dunno yet though.

I will post pics! Don't worry! I'm thinking 2 weeks for the completed project. I'm going to paint at least the innards of my case black, and probably the outside as well.

Any suggestions as to what color water would compliment black interior and red lighting? I was thinking black but apparently the only way to get there is with Phantom Black XP Fluid, *shrugs*.
 
It will do fine regardless. I have one in my system with an 8800GTX and a conroe and I am running fantastic temps. Will upgrade to SLI when I have another $800 :D

And don't bother with push and pull unless you like the looks. You will not get much of a performance boost at all with the PA series in push+pull.

Regarding the color, try getting Primoflex or Primochill colored tubing, whatever its called. It's great tubing and you don't sacrifice your temps and waterblocks getting the look you want.

Heres some red, but I am sure you can probably find black tubing out there too. [link]
 
Yeah, the only time to go push/pull is when you need to run 6 fans at around 5v. Then, it's quite beneficial, but other than that...
 
*nod*

I was just wanting the water colored look, and not the tubing. Is the Fluid XP stuff bad for the loop overall or just a waste of money? I can see wasting money if it won't harm my system.
 
Arcygenical said:
Yeah, the only time to go push/pull is when you need to run 6 fans at around 5v. Then, it's quite beneficial, but other than that...
Click to expand...

Hrm....I dunno. I'm gonna have to take a good look at my case and see what is the best thing to do. A lot of the fan choice will deal with where I mount. So many choices!

Also, Performance-pcs.com is selling NB and mosfet blocks! So tempting! Just keep the PA 120.3 still? I figured that's okay since the chipsets are passively cooled anyway.
 
I'd just go w/ the 3xYLs, and if you find under-volting doesn't provide enough flow/cooling, consider another 3 later on - maybe another $10 expense.

Nice setup, but personally, I'd say save the $80 ($135 vs $57) and get the Swiftech MCR320 over the Thermochill.. I just couldn't justify the extra expense for a slightly better temp. On the mounting question..A couple of considerations: a) do you mount the case on the floor? More dust cleanup sessions if you do. b) If mounting up top, suck (better idea) or blow the warm case air from the case, or pull cool air into the case..Whether it will make a big difference or not, I don't know - but something to think about.

I wouldn't bother with NB/SB or MOSFET blocks, unless your system is *abnormally* hot (and affecting your overclocks or stability)..Nice air-cooled sinks, with decent airflow in the case should be plenty. Of course with the difference between air and water CPU cooling, you're cutting out a good portion of 'overflow' cooling for your motherboard 'sinks..But again, if you have decent flow in the case you should be fine.

On the coolant front, black case, red accessories right? I would definitely go for red coolant additive. IMO the Pentosin G12/red is a waste of time (it looks pink), try Petra's Long-life Red. It actually looks RED.

 
Thanks for that!

Yeah I was going to light red, but i'm thinking about coloring the fluid red and maybe going for a purple or some other dark color to compliment.

I'm starting to also think the mosfet and NB isn't a good idea.

As far as the mounting goes, it won't be setting on the floor. It will be up on a table. I was thinking bottom mounting would be better, I could pull cool air in and get some exaust fans on the bottom rear to help keep too much hot air from sitting around the case. I dunno, I'd have to play with it. I just think bottom is better overall, I'll exhaust the top. I'll have the wheels on it for clearance I guess.

I've debated the huge expense on the rad as well, but what kinda difference are we talking about? I'd like to keep things low RPM for noise and that's why I was on the PA120.3 bandwagon.
 
Oh my, something came up. $300 has to come out of my pocket in two weeks and I completely wasn't planning on that expense.

I'm still planning to WC, but need to cut a few dollars here and there. So, here's what I've decided for now.

From Petras -
Laing DCC-2 with Petra top(w/ gel vibration pad)
Biocide
Long Life Red Coolant Additive
=122 shipped

From Jab-Tech -
Thermochill PA120.3
6 x YL D12SL-12
D-Tek Fuzion
=221 shipped

From Performance Pcs -
EK Res250
= 70 Shipped

Grand total = 413

I know I don't have tubing listed because I don't know what's a safe number of feet to get. So what is?

I'm thinking about going another route with my res, I think 60 bucks is quite expensive. I'm going to get some fan controllers later when I get all this stuff paid for.

Am I missing anything like fittings or something that a n00bcake like myself would forget?
 
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