Vista Upgrade Editions - Problems ?

MixManSC

MixManSC

║▌║█║▌│║▌║▌█
Staff member
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Messages
8,376
Not much in the way of info out there on this just yet but what I have have been able to determine so far is not good news. Apparently Vista Upgrade has a significant difference from the old XP Upgrade. With XP you could still do a clean install with an upgrade version by simply providing your disc from the original OS during the install. I will be able to confirm this once my January Action Pack update comes in since the version of Vista with the kit is a Business Edition Upgrade. It seems and I did read this on the MSDN newsgroup in a post from a MS staffer that to use a Vista Upgrade you MUST do so fro the OS to be upgraded. The thread there started because someone tried it by booting from the DVD and when he put in his product key it told him he has to do this by running the DVD from within the existing Windows installation and would not install with the Upgrade version product key. The MS staffer that replied in the thread confirmed and stated that yes - a truly clean install is not possible with an upgrade version key - the operating system to be upgraded MUST be installed AND activated first. I read this earlier and do not have a link on it but there was another thread about this over at Ars Sucks in some respects but I see why MS would want to do it this way - prevents someone from simply using a pirated XP disc to get Vista on the cheap. I also wonder if it does something along the lines of permanently de-activating your XP key that you upgraded from.

Also here is an interesting link for other Action Pack subscribers. MS is offering to let you upgrade your 10 Action Pack Vista Business Licenses to Vista Ultimate for $139.00....

http://www.windowsanytimeupgrade.com/maps
 
Vista upgrade permanently deactivates XP and even moves its old folder to a new location so it doesnt interfere with the upgrade. Its about as close to a clean install as you could hope for but you dont have to reload apps etc.

However, I havent yet seen anyone who has a copy of an "upgrade" edition in hand to test it.
 
Thanks for the info. I've read several stories about the upgrade and OEM copies that has made me decide to go ahead and buy the full retail version. It's stupid expensive, but I don't want any headaches.
 
Sucks that if you have a clean drive you will still have to install your old OS and activate it just to be able to install the upgrade. I'm now thinking that Windows 2000 might be a good option since it does not require activation and is a valid OS to upgrade from and is a relatively fast install. I'm also curious if it will be "deactivating" the XP key so it cannot be activated anymore - at least without calling into MS.
 
I also posed the question at the MS forums, What happens if I want to downgrade to the old os, (in my case MCE2005) from a Vista upgrade, and I am awaiting a reply.
 
I doubt MS will let you upgrade 10 Vista Bus Upgrades to 10 Vista Ultimates...maybe 139 each, but all 10 for $139 ?
 
Not what Microsoft says....

There is a program called "easy transfer" on vista that would be useless for "upgraders" if what you said was true.

The options

You can upgrade from your current edition of Microsoft Windows XP or Windows 2000 to a corresponding or better edition of Windows Vista by purchasing and installing an upgrade copy of Windows Vista. Depending on which edition of Windows you are running and the edition of Windows Vista you would like to install, you have two options for the installation process:
In-place upgrade
You can upgrade in-place, which means you can install Windows Vista and retain your applications, files, and settings as they were in your previous edition of Windows.
Clean install
Upgrading to Windows Vista with a clean install means that you should use Windows Easy Transfer to automatically copy all your files and settings to an extra hard drive or other storage device, and then install Windows Vista. After the installation is complete, Windows Easy Transfer will reload your files and settings on your upgraded PC. You will then need to reinstall your applications.



http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upgradeinfo.mspx
 
I did my Vista Upgrade as a clean install from bootup over XP. In other words it wiped the XP folder out and replaced it with Vista. Mine failed from within XP due to me having RC2 on another drive and it for some damn reason kept failing even though I was going over XP. I finally booted from the DVD and it gave me the option to do the clean install.
 
There is an enourmous amount of MAL-information floating around vista, AKA FUD, because linux heads and mac heads are going around planting this stuff on comment threads on blogs and places like Amazon, and in forums, in some lame attempt to discredit and disrupt the launch of Vista. Why? I have no idea. Its just more of their insane hatred for msft that emerges at key moments, like this launch.
 
bendit said:
There is an enourmous amount of MAL-information floating around vista, AKA FUD, because linux heads and mac heads are going around planting this stuff on comment threads on blogs and places like Amazon, and in forums, in some lame attempt to discredit and disrupt the launch of Vista. Why? I have no idea. Its just more of their insane hatred for msft that emerges at key moments, like this launch.
Click to expand...

wow,....that doesn't sound like a crazy ass delusional conspiracy theory or anything. :rolleyes:
 
I'm still not sure - I just read where another guy got his Action Pack disc in and it would not work and then read that retail versions might work without first installing the old OS. Also in a lot of these threads on this, licensing etc, everyone keeps saying "well I've done it so and so way with XP for years and I'll keep doing it the same way".... This is not XP, the installations are different, the licensing is different, its all different. What worked for XP may or may not work in Vista. Time will tell for sure as it will only be a few more days and a LOT of people will be trying every scenario imaginable. I've got a system sitting here waiting with three different hard drives. Only going to connect one at a time and I will personally see how it works with an Action Pack Upgrade Disc for Vista Business. One drive has a clean loaded Windows 2000 on it, one drive has a clean loaded XP Pro (not yet activated - but can be with the click of a mouse) on it, and one drive is blank.
 
MixManSC said:
I'm still not sure - I just read where another guy got his Action Pack disc in and it would not work and then read that retail versions might work without first installing the old OS. Also in a lot of these threads on this, licensing etc, everyone keeps saying "well I've done it so and so way with XP for years and I'll keep doing it the same way".... This is not XP, the installations are different, the licensing is different, its all different. What worked for XP may or may not work in Vista. Time will tell for sure as it will only be a few more days and a LOT of people will be trying every scenario imaginable. I've got a system sitting here waiting with three different hard drives. Only going to connect one at a time and I will personally see how it works with an Action Pack Upgrade Disc for Vista Business. One drive has a clean loaded Windows 2000 on it, one drive has a clean loaded XP Pro (not yet activated - but can be with the click of a mouse) on it, and one drive is blank.
Click to expand...
Please keep us informed of what you find.
 
bendit said:
There is an enourmous amount of MAL-information floating around vista, AKA FUD, because linux heads and mac heads are going around planting this stuff on comment threads on blogs and places like Amazon, and in forums, in some lame attempt to discredit and disrupt the launch of Vista. Why? I have no idea. Its just more of their insane hatred for msft that emerges at key moments, like this launch.
Click to expand...
By any chance is your first name Fox?
 
It says you purchased an "upgrade KEY," not license. I am still not convinced. I predict you can do clean installs. But we will know next week in any event.

regards
 
bendit said:
It says you purchased an "upgrade KEY," not license. I am still not convinced. I predict you can do clean installs. But we will know next week in any event.

regards
Click to expand...
You CAN do a "custom install" which is about as close to a "clean "install as you can get, BUT, the OS u want to upgrade has to be there. Vista moves these files to a seperate file, and then installs a full version. An UPGRADE disc will NOT install without the old OS present.
 
This annoys me greatly. So I either get an upgrade version and have to install another OS before Vista, or get an OEM System Builder version and not be able to upgrade my hardware very much? I've also gotten used to using my one XP disc with a volume license key (from my school) to install on my desktops and my laptop. No activation no genuine advantage, no BS. Unfortunately, I don't think there's going to be this functionality for Vista Ultimate, is there?
 
Xaeos said:
This annoys me greatly. So I either get an upgrade version and have to install another OS before Vista, or get an OEM System Builder version and not be able to upgrade my hardware very much? I've also gotten used to using my one XP disc with a volume license key (from my school) to install on my desktops and my laptop. No activation no genuine advantage, no BS. Unfortunately, I don't think there's going to be this functionality for Vista Ultimate, is there?
Click to expand...


i can see why its annoying, but its a anti-piracy thing, I too like the old style upgrade system, where it just asks for a disc for verification, but honestly, how long does it take to install xp, and how often do you do you plan on doing a format.

there is a way around this whole thing. check this thread out. some guy slip steamed a boot sector image into a vista upgrade, it did a full install with out any verification.
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=84788
 
If this is the case, i simply boot with my copy of Vista Business and then change DVDs to my OEM Home premium upgrade before the install starts.... :D
 
That link is not convincing. The retail LICENSE is not even being sold yet so this little blurb is likely about something else that came up in the beta program. Again it refers to a KEY. It does not refer to a a retail upgrade LICENSE. Please notice the precise language being used here and remember that nobody has taken a retail license upgrade from Amazon or BB and tested this. WAIT. We simply don't know until someone tests a retail upgrade license.

regards
 
bendit said:
That link is not convincing. The retail LICENSE is not even being sold yet so this little blurb is likely about something else that came up in the beta program. Again it refers to a KEY. It does not refer to a a retail upgrade LICENSE. Please notice the precise language being used here and remember that nobody has taken a retail license upgrade from Amazon or BB and tested this. WAIT. We simply don't know until someone tests a retail upgrade license.

regards
Click to expand...


good point, and youre coompletly right.For me i have a copy coming fron the moduslink upgrade thing, I'm sure its going to be o.e.m, so for me it seems to be a option.It worked for that guy. so im probably going to give it a shot, and if it doesnt work, im just out a dvd, and a little time.
 
randsom said:
good point, and youre coompletly right.For me i have a copy coming fron the moduslink upgrade thing, I'm sure its going to be o.e.m, so for me it seems to be a option.It worked for that guy. so im probably going to give it a shot, and if it doesnt work, im just out a dvd, and a little time.
Click to expand...
The copies from the free upgrade are tied to the software that came in the coupon pkg. In otherwords, Vista uses the coa of the pkg software. Don't forget Vistas new security is a little different, as it does automatic validation checks, and then there's the new kill switch, which will lock you out, if it determines that your copy of Vista isn't valid.
 
Xaeos said:
This annoys me greatly. So I either get an upgrade version and have to install another OS before Vista, or get an OEM System Builder version and not be able to upgrade my hardware very much? I've also gotten used to using my one XP disc with a volume license key (from my school) to install on my desktops and my laptop. No activation no genuine advantage, no BS. Unfortunately, I don't think there's going to be this functionality for Vista Ultimate, is there?
Click to expand...
Even VLK is going to have to be activated with Vista,but Ryan over at PPCPER ,took a brand new OEM copy of Vista, and moved it to 3 different pc's, and was able to reactivate with a phone call, after the first install. Keep in mind that these were 3 completely different rigs. so, I realy don't think that anybody who does upgrades, will have much of a problem.
 
This sounds like it is referring to the Windows Vista Easy Upgrade Coupon program. Which then it makes sense to be ran this way. Until the thing is actually out on Tuesday and in peoples hand there is simply no way to know if the Upgrade Licenses sold in stores will let you continue doing the clean install. Reading MS article on it liek many people pointed out is referring to the keys. I think otherwise its just a crap load of FUD of people jumping to conclusions. Also note the article does not mention ultimate only Business, Home, and Home Premium the only three versions that the easy upgrade program used. I plan on getting Vista as soon as the stores open Tuesday and took the day off to install and play with it :-p I will certainly post here if no one by then has posted my results of the test.
 
That article is based on the vague wording of the Microsoft KB article...thus it could still be referring to the Windows Vista Express Upgrade System and not the Upgrade licenses sold retail in the store.
 
Why purchase an upgrade version, when you can get the FULL OEM version for cheaper?
 
Motley said:
Why purchase an upgrade version, when you can get the FULL OEM version for cheaper?
Click to expand...

The upgrade version is retail, allowing it to be transfered to a new motherboard when you swap out parts on your PC. The OEM version is, technically locked to the first mobo it is installed to.
 
We know the upgrade edition requires you to upgrade from within Windows...BUT, here's the question I have not seen answered - when installing the upgrade from XP, can you force Vista to install to a clean hard drive?

I have a beta CD, but I'm not brave enough to click the "install now" thing in the Vista installer to find out what it does next.

If so, problem solved. Or can I at least format my XP drive, and install there without it trying to save applications and registry settings? (in which case you just have to make an image of your XP installation beforehand if you want to use from it later.)

Also - if you use the upgrade edition, does Microsoft deactivate your XP key? in other words, if I still want to boot my XP installation, am I screwed?

I just don't understand why they'd do this. They are begging for user fury with failed upgrades.
 
I just came upon this thread and this is really frustrating me now. I pre-ordered the Vista Ultimate UPGRADE (Retail) based on the thought that I could install it into my NEW BUILD computer and just throw in my old disc for verification. Can anyone give me a clear answer on if this is possible. I DO NOT want to have to completely install my previous Windows XP just to install Vista.
 
sluzbenik said:
We know the upgrade edition requires you to upgrade from within Windows...BUT, here's the question I have not seen answered - when installing the upgrade from XP, can you force Vista to install to a clean hard drive?

I have a beta CD, but I'm not brave enough to click the "install now" thing in the Vista installer to find out what it does next.

If so, problem solved. Or can I at least format my XP drive, and install there without it trying to save applications and registry settings? (in which case you just have to make an image of your XP installation beforehand if you want to use from it later.)

Also - if you use the upgrade edition, does Microsoft deactivate your XP key? in other words, if I still want to boot my XP installation, am I screwed?

I just don't understand why they'd do this. They are begging for user fury with failed upgrades.
Click to expand...


I was under the impression you can do a dual boot install with the upgrade version- so you could do a clean install of Vista on another partition or hard driver and dual boot with XP. I would then assume you could amend the boot.ini file and just boot into Vista. Is this correct?
 
glenlivet17 said:
I just came upon this thread and this is really frustrating me now. I pre-ordered the Vista Ultimate UPGRADE (Retail) based on the thought that I could install it into my NEW BUILD computer and just throw in my old disc for verification. Can anyone give me a clear answer on if this is possible. I DO NOT want to have to completely install my previous Windows XP just to install Vista.
Click to expand...

Based on currently available information, no. You will have to have either a fully activated installation of XP already installed or Windows 2000 already installed before the upgrade version of Vista will install.
 
I can't believe how confusing Microsoft can let Vista be, besides the several different versions of Vista. Now we won't know if we can do a clean install from an Upgrade? Once again, confusion reigns.

Luckily, I live in Hawaii, so I will know early (our time) if I need an Upgrade or a Full version. Good luck to those that are planning to buy the Upgrade version. Please let us know of your results in how you installed Vista.
 
tronmaster said:
I can't believe how confusing Microsoft can let Vista be, besides the several different versions of Vista. Now we won't know if we can do a clean install from an Upgrade? Once again, confusion reigns.

Luckily, I live in Hawaii, so I will know early (our time) if I need an Upgrade or a Full version. Good luck to those that are planning to buy the Upgrade version. Please let us know of your results in how you installed Vista.
Click to expand...

"Clean install" is the operative phrase here -- there are multiple ways to interpret that, ie. booting off the Vista disc itself to do a clean-boot install, or doing a clean install by installing Vista from inside the existing OS and installing Vista to another partition/drive. What has been shown over the weekend via various sites is that the first way is no longer valid:

* If you have a retail boxed Upgrade of Vista, you cannot do a boot from the Vista disc itself and install it on a hard drive. No more of the boot from the XP upgrade disc, insert previous OS disc, verify files, reinstall XP upgrade disc, install XP as a full version. You have to have an existing OS installed and in the case of XP, activated and/or WGA checked. You drop your Vista Upgrade disc in from inside the existing OS and you can tell it to do an inplace install over your XP or install the Vista onto a new partition or drive, all to itself with no Windows XP "dingleberries" hanging around in the new Vista partition/drive.
 
I remember 15-minute install claims. Heh, now it's even longer than XP.
 
glenlivet17 said:
I just came upon this thread and this is really frustrating me now. I pre-ordered the Vista Ultimate UPGRADE (Retail) based on the thought that I could install it into my NEW BUILD computer and just throw in my old disc for verification. Can anyone give me a clear answer on if this is possible. I DO NOT want to have to completely install my previous Windows XP just to install Vista.
Click to expand...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/930985/en-us

Note the Applies to section. This only applies to Vista Home and starter editions. You can do a fresh install with the Ultimate Upgrade edtion.

If it gives you any problems you can leave the CD-Key blank during install and then enter the key once Vista has installed.
 
Would I be able to install Windows 2k onto a spare harddrive, throw in the Vista upgrade disc, and tell it to install to a blank harddrive?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top