Paper job applications in the 21st century

So, I like to keep my ears open to employment opportunities and interview requests from other employers, and I find myself in interviews semi-regularly. One of the things I've noticed, which I find fairly irritating, is that a lot of employers demand that you fill out a 'paper employment application' prior to one of their interviews (even if I've filled one out online already), and when I ask if it's really necessary, I'm always told something along the lines of 'yes, we cannot continue the application process without completed copies of these forms'. I'm not talking about documents verifying my legal ability to work, or non-compete agreements, either. I'm talking about paper printouts asking for education, previous experience, desired salary, skills, etc.

It's fairly irritating to me that so many places still want this stuff in this millennium. For one thing, it sure seems like an unnecessary waste of paper, and even if they do need it 'in paper', I've already filled out the same information during the online application, so why can't they just print that out? But a larger concern for me is the idea that a company would require their potential candidates to fill out the same information multiple times, when they are supposedly 'innovative' and looking to hire 'problem solvers'. Doesn't that seem to say to candidates 'we're bureaucratic and wasteful, and we're looking to consume your soul' rather than 'we're an innovative company that listens to good ideas and gets things done'?

It's almost 2015, so apart from companies held back by slow-moving external regulations, I find any company incapable of figuring out a way to make these types of things paperless to be fairly pathetic, especially considering the nature of a lot of these companies asking for paper applications. I would understand if it were a bank or insurance company, but a lot of these companies are software companies or IT systems consulting firms. I'm always weary of going any further with these companies, because in my mind it's a red flag that the company is incapable of innovation, problem solving, decisiveness and progress.

My question here is, why do so many employers still expect this and/or is there any good reason for it? I know it can't (in general) be some kind of explicit legal requirement, since I've worked at places where 'paper' documents were not brought to the table until an employment offer was accepted (or sometimes even at all), and most of the time the paperwork I've had to do after accepting an offer is much more brief than the crap I'm expected to fill out as part of the interview process at a lot of companies.

Thoughts? Comments? Experiences? Concerns? Articulate announcements?

that is HR for you, people sticking to their old ways who do not want to adjust....

Maybe they want to make sure you are literate? I've seen some people who write so poorly that it would take a scientific research team to figure out what they are saying. In my personal opinion, if you have a problem with this, what I'm asking you to do, for whatever reason, you might not be such a great candidate for a position at my company. Consider it a test that you could potentially fail.

No wonder OP doesn't have a job.

OP I'll send you $1000 in bitcoins if you can write a 50 page essay (by hand on paper) why paper applications should be abolished. You can reach me at kenton dot byrd at iCloud dot com.

Completely serious no BS offer, I will pay up if you write me the essay.

timta2 said:

In my personal opinion, if you have a problem with this, what I'm asking you to do, for whatever reason, you might not be such a great candidate for a position at my company. Consider it a test that you could potentially fail.

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If your goal is to identify hive-mind yes-men who will do anything regardless of how stupid and pointless it may be, that's probably a good test, then.

However, smart people don't hire people that blindly follow, and I don't want to work at companies where blindly following is the expectation.

kent said:

No wonder OP doesn't have a job.

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Your reading comprehension has let you down.

kent said:

OP I'll send you $1000 in bitcoins if you can write a 50 page essay (by hand on paper) why paper applications should be abolished. You can reach me at kenton dot byrd at iCloud dot com.

Completely serious no BS offer, I will pay up if you write me the essay.

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That's a fairly low price point for such extensive work.

kent said:

OP I'll send you $1000 in bitcoins if you can write a 50 page essay (by hand on paper) why paper applications should be abolished. You can reach me at kenton dot byrd at iCloud dot com.

Completely serious no BS offer, I will pay up if you write me the essay.

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It is a waste of paper and time, and electronic copies are more efficient. Is there really any more to say? It would just be 50 pages of BS.

sharknice said:

It is a waste of paper and time, and electronic copies are more efficient. Is there really any more to say?

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Right, if there's something being written by hand on paper, then either a person is going to have to be the one processing it (which is expensive and error prone, and probably the reason why someone named Lyle might get entered into the system as Kyle) or they're not actually doing anything with the paper copy so why do they make people waste time and paper filling them out?

Dogs said:

Your reading comprehension has let you down.

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LOL ^^^

OP I agree with you. It irritated me years ago - if I was looking for a job now, I am sure it would still drive me crazy.

There have been instances where I had to apply for a job via paper application and electronically, THEN I had to fill out the same shit on some required "different forms".

In Japan many companies expect you to hand write your resumes

If it's a big company they may be outsourcing their initial screening process to an external HR firm, and 90% of HR firms are tear-your-hair-out crazy with forms and bureaucracy and so on. Or they have an internal HR division that basically runs the HR show completely divorced from the production side of things. Under those scenarios I would be less concerned about the efficiency of the actual production side of the company as it is very common for the right hand to not really know the inner workings of what the left hand (HR) is doing, especially at the low level of initial applicant screening, where as others have pointed out it is basically some HR schlep figuring out if you can follow basic directions and spell your name.

Where I would caution you is this: if you ever have to deal with HR ever again when you work there, (such as request FMLA leave or something) expect the same crappy death-by-a-thousand-forms formula.

Dogs said:

But a larger concern for me is the idea that a company would require their potential candidates to fill out the same information multiple times, when they are supposedly 'innovative' and looking to hire 'problem solvers'. Doesn't that seem to say to candidates 'we're bureaucratic and wasteful, and we're looking to consume your soul' rather than 'we're an innovative company that listens to good ideas and gets things done'?

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Yes, it does. Bureaucracy is everywhere and growing fast. It is the number 2 destroyer of productivity, after the perfect storm of weak self-discipline and easy internet distractions of our day.

Some people get off on ridiculously obfuscating, needless, convoluted rules and regulations and "procedures". It creates jobs for lawyers and consultants who can navigate the morass of idiocy. IMO, the entire country needs someone who can cut the Gordian Knot permanently.

wabbitseason said:

IMO, the entire country needs someone who can cut the Gordian Knot permanently.

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And who is this superhero? Why wouldn't it be better to encourage individuals to push back against silly policies and procedures? After all, someone who's directly affected by a problem is in the best position to address it. I'm not sure why your statistics don't enumerate this complacency and victimization as a tall cause for productivity loss.

I don't know about HR protocols in your case, but I guess the paper application could be seen as a good but discrete test.
I think it can help tell if you are open minded, at ease, disciplined.
If you find yourself frustrated, angry when faced with a boring or unusual objective then it will make you less productive. I mean what if you get assigned to fix some random legacy spaghetti? It's their money and facilities, they don't want bitching and moaning.

Pretty much all of the above is complete rubbish. As any reader of the Telegraph's Alex cartoon will know, the reason to have it done by hand is so they can have samples of your handwriting to later check if you're forging expenses.

Well when you fill out the application online. Print it. Then take it with you on the Interview and when asked to fill out an application hand it to them.

michalrz said:

If you find yourself frustrated, angry when faced with a boring or unusual objective then it will make you less productive. I mean what if you get assigned to fix some random legacy spaghetti?

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The problem is that it's not just boring or unusual — it's pointless. Do companies really want employees to accept and complete pointless tasks without question?

I wouldn't ask an employee to walk to the other side of the room, stand there for ten minutes and then come back to describe the wall to me. I want that employee to say "no, that's a waste of everyone's time". The wall isn't important to me, and I don't want the wall to be important to him/her. We have bigger fish to fry.

wonderfield said:

The problem is that it's not just boring or unusual — it's pointless. Do companies really want employees to accept and complete pointless tasks without question?

I wouldn't ask an employee to walk to the other side of the room, stand there for ten minutes and then come back to describe the wall to me. I want that employee to say "no, that's a waste of everyone's time". The wall isn't important to me, and I don't want the wall to be important to him/her. We have bigger fish to fry.

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I completely agree with that part. One should communicate his concerns, optimization ideas. Just that there's a time for that.
So, for example, if I got called away from developing sentient AI itself to change a blown tungstwn lightbulb in the bathroom, I would not use that time to pitch LED replacements to the board.

I'm sorry, I don't know how to communicate certain ideas

michalrz said:

So, for example, if I got called away from developing sentient AI itself to change a blown tungstwn lightbulb in the bathroom, I would not use that time to pitch LED replacements to the board.

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No, but if you got called in there to replace the 'spent' candle you might.

To me, it seems like there's three possible states with the paper work. Either:
A.) The paper work is needed for some external reason, like compliance with some regulation and needs to be 'on hand' for that reason. In that case, there's not a lot to do about it.
B.) The paper work is there because they've never stopped asking for it, nobody looks at it, nobody does anything with it, and nobody actually needs it. If this is the case, this is a quick fix. Stop doing it, and maybe the better candidates will actually want to work for your company. Trivial cost, non-trivial benefit.
C.) The paper work is actively being processed by people by hand. Processing paper documents by hand is incredibly expensive, and integrating your electronic hiring system with your other systems generally isn't very expensive. If you're talking about a reasonable sized company, there will be enough people hired on and enough mistakes made from processing by hand that automating this will likely pay for itself in just a few months and from there out it's all value-added.

So if I were to actually take a position with one of these employers who still does this paper stuff by hand (and I probably won't), it would seem pretty logical to just ask why that paper work is there. If it's A, then the conversation just stops there because there's not a lot that can be done about it, and if it's B or C you've been at the company a week or so and already found a way to make things more efficient. A reasonable company would probably listen.

...Of course, that's the part that bugs me. A reasonable company would probably listen, and I can't imagine nobody has ever brought it up. I also have been employed by companies that had very little/no paper work needed, so I can't imagine A is a very common situation. That makes me worry that these companies in question might not be run by reasonable people.

It's actually a pretty good test, but not the the reason that I believe HR are asking it.

As a programmer you streamline processes as much as possible. If a process/ task seems much more labour intensive than needed, then you should question it. After all that's why they're hiring you in the first place..

I'd bring the point up. But be tactful about it, suggest alternatives (print, email).

If they do require you to waste everyone's time and write the same thing out twice. Then go elsewhere, there's plenty of good jobs around!

Below is how the company should handle anyone who wastes loads of time on hand writing the application without question (seriously who writes anymore?).

Dogs said:

No, but if you got called in there to replace the 'spent' candle you might.

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Well, I'd bring it up as a issue in the presence of superiors and in the proper situation, like in a meeting where time waste is discussed and adressed.
I'd try to not show any bias or criticism for the candle's makers/designers, because I'd assume that was the best they could do with the knowledge they had at that time.

If the company is run by reasonable people they'd listen and phase out the candles/paper.
If not, and if it was interfering with my development in the field or meeting my high profile deadlines - I'd consider leaving them.

You are right in assuming that it's just another form of waste and it needs to go. No getting around that.
As for your ABC reasons, I can weigh in but from a third world point of view (I'm undereducated in a rural part of a poor country) on reason A. I'll give you one example out of many.
While submitting an application or being evaluated by HR, all statements regarding your qualifications and/or agreements need to be "signed". Our law doesn't recognize scanned paper signatures, you still have to digitally sign the scan itself for it to be airtight.
Like four people I know own a smart card, a reader and are issued a personal certificate because most procedures still required paper documents by law.
The law didn't change early enough because ignorance curbed this demand. Catch 22.

When the government finally woke up, they at least provided citizens with free 'online digital certification services' for which one needs to apply in person. Guess what the digital signature credentials are issued based on. PAPER DOCUMENTS.

Only now we're getting our heads out of our asses. I often visit archive buildings and I can tell you that even on the local government level (I'm in it) I cry inside about the MASSIVE amounts of space being wasted. And for what - one good fire and it's gone.

Digital documents, if implemented right, are more secure and efficient.

But in my opinion they are not being secured enough due to careless administrators. They use MD5 for checksums, even though it's not collision resistant, they don't encrypt, they disregard data retention.
Offsite, for them, is at best another building. Still reachable by, say, EMP.

We're morons, in a broad sense. We will delete all of our data accidentally somewhere in the future. Some lowlife will go after the Voyager Golden Records in his personal spaceship to draw a dick on it.

Educated admins - go forth and do battle. All we can do.

The bigger the company the bigger the bureaucracy, waste and stupidity.

Red Squirrel said:

The bigger the company the bigger the bureaucracy, waste and stupidity.

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And it will continue to grow exponentially, until, say, the amperage needed for the shredders and corona wire chargers will trip a breaker forcing an executive to stop watching porn in his office.