Gaming build help

chenw

2[H]4U
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Oct 26, 2014
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Hey all

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Gaming mainly, currently no AAA titles, but would love to play games that challenges my rig.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
US$3000 (technically NT$100k or about $3300, but our components usually costs 10~20% more than us equivalent...)
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
Taiwan
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer.
CPU, Mobo, RAM, PSU, Case, 1 SSD, 1 HDD, 2 GTX970's (already have one)
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
1 MSI GTX970 Gaming 4G
6) Will you be overclocking?
Only whatever my hardware allows me to OC under air cooling, without increasing core voltage.
7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
Planning on Asus RoG Swift PG278Q
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
As soon as I finalise my build
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
Preferably 6 USB 3.0 ports at the back (not including ones at the front) with Wifi, minimum 6 USB 3.0 at the back without built in Wifi, or 4 with wifi. Wifi preferrably 802.11 ac, SLI support mandatory, preferably with 3 PCI-E lane seperation between the X16 channels.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Yes, Windows 7 64-bit Professional, although I have also access to Win8.1 Professional.


Basically, after serious thought, I have ditched the idea of both 6 core and 40 PCI-E lane setups and decided to use that money to invest in the infamous Asus monitor.

Currently narrowed down CPU to i7-4790k or i5-4690k, and Mobo is currently undecided, but looking at either MSI Z97 Gaming 9 AC or Gigabyte Z97X-Gaming G1 Wifi-BK. Would love alternative suggestions. I don't mind getting Z87 board if that will suffice, I don't plan or particularly want to upgrade the CPU/Mobo for the next 3~5 years.

Although I have little idea what the availability of Hardware brands in Taiwan, but assume that for Mobo I am limited to MSI, Asus and Gigabyte.

Also I think I need 1000W PSU, would this be enough?

My draft setup is:
i7-4790k
GA-Z97X-Gaming G1 Wifi-BK
Kingston Hyper X FURY DDR3-1866 8GBx2 Kit
GTX 970x2
Lian Li PC-7HX (Planning to have top fan housing addon and removing the HDD cage to allow the second
Seasonic X1050 Platinum PSU
 
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Wait, you're aiming for a GTX 970 tri-SLI setup?' And you're not playing any AAA games?

Also, for overclocking, you're going to need a 3rd party HSF as well.

Why the WIFI requirement?
 
1. I am going to SLI x2, not x3. I already have a 970 on hand, and will be using that one in the new rig.
3. My modem is located on the other side of the house, and far too much hassle to drag a lan line to my room, so I use wireless for internet connection. The built in wifi really just saves me a USB port, but I might go through several usb harddrives and I have an intense hate for USB port juggling, hence why a dedicated built in wifi would help in that, one less thing to fight over USB port with.

On second thought I haven't actually looked at the price difference between a Wifi and non-Wifi Mobo, if the difference is bigger than a USB wifi, then I'd consider getting the non-wifi mobo (although that would mean I would want 6 back panel USB 3.0 ports). I would only consider 4 if the price difference is large enough, 2 unfortunately is a no-no.

My previous Mobo is an Asus, and I was thinking of try out a different brand mobo this time around, so I have only really considered Giga and MSI, but I would do Asus too. I was just wondering if there are boards that are known to be reliable, or if anyone have one of the Giga or MSI boards I mentioned above.

None of my spec is set in stone, besides that one of the GTX 970 is MSI, and i have a 4 back panel USB 3.0 port requirement :p

(I know it sounds weird to choose a Mobo based on the number of USB ports...)
 
(I know it sounds weird to choose a Mobo based on the number of USB ports...)

No, it's not. It's weird however to spend a lot more money on a mobo with more USB ports though. Also, I generally don't recommend USB wifi adapters anyway since the majority aren't quite as good as their PCI-E based brothers. 7

What games are you planning on playing? Any of them online games?
 
A rather large assortment of them actually.

F/TPS, RTS, RPG, etc.

Several of them online, thinking about getting into BF4

I haven't played many AAA games yet because I haven't actually bought them, but Witcher 3 is something I am hugely interested in, and BF4 is tickling my mind as well.
 
Specifically which games?

I'm asking because SLI might be overkill depending on the game you're actually going to play. In addition, WIFI may not be your best choice for online gaming unless you have a good wireless router. Even then, it still would be worse than a direct connection.
 
BF4, the upcoming Witcher 3, possibly Shadow of Mordor, and Skyrim with texture mods.

I wanted to SLI because I kinda wanted to make use of above 60fps on 1440p, but I chose PG278Q because there doesn't seem many choices with 1080p G-sync monitors.
 
Well first and foremost: I don't recommend any of the mobos you listed unless your sole goal is "Waste money." Those motherboard are incredibly overpriced for what they are. You haven't said anything that would make me think those mobos would be a good choice for you. So based on what you've said so far, I recommend the following motherboards:
ASRock Fatal1ty Z97X Killer
ASRock Z97 Extreme4
MSI Z97-Gaming 7

The first two motherboards have six USB 3.0 ports and the last one has 8 USB 3.0 ports. For the wireless connection, go get a PCI-E x1 wireless adapter. Before I can recommend one, two questions:
1) Do you have a router that has Wireless AC capability?
2) If no to the above, will you be getting one soon?

You don't need a 1000W PSU. You'll be fine with a good quality 750W PSU. I recommend the Seasonic X-750 750W Modular PSU or Seasonic SS-760XP2 760W Modular PSU.

For the SSD, I recommend the Crucial MX100 256GB, the Samsung 840 Evo 250GB, or the Samsung 840 Pro 256GB at a minimum.
 
If by Wireless AC router, you mean a 802.11 ac, then yes, it is definitely on my shopping list, it will be purchased along with my computer parts once I finalise it.

Although out of curiosity, is PCI wireless board significantly better than a USB?

The SSD reminded me that I also got a 840 EVO 250gb when i got my GTX 970, so I will definitely be using that, the SSD i was planning on getting was going to be for my system drive, so I was thinking of either getting 1 128GB ssd and a 2TB HDD or a 512GB SSD and cannibalise the 1TB i have in my old rig.

Thanks for the Mobo suggestions!
 
Although out of curiosity, is PCI wireless board significantly better than a USB?
From my experience, better in terms of reliability and signal connection. FOr the wireless adapter, I recommend the Asus PCE-AC56 or the Asus PCE-AC68 wireless adapters

The SSD reminded me that I also got a 840 EVO 250gb when i got my GTX 970, so I will definitely be using that, the SSD i was planning on getting was going to be for my system drive, so I was thinking of either getting 1 128GB ssd and a 2TB HDD or a 512GB SSD and cannibalise the 1TB i have in my old rig.
Don't go with a SSD below 250GB: With the way SSDs are designed, the larger in size you go, you get slightly better performance each step. Based on U.S pricing, SSDs in the ~250GB are also some of the best bang for the buck SSDs.
 
Thanks a lot for your help, that actually saved me quite a bit of money so far.

I do have a question, is the 750W based on having two 970's?

Also, what would be the best place to place the wifi card? Above, between or below the GPU's? I was thinking the middle because of its proximity to the middle intake fan.

Lastly, what brand of router would you recommend? I was thinking of Asus again.
 
Thanks a lot for your help, that actually saved me quite a bit of money so far.

I do have a question, is the 750W based on having two 970's?
Yes:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014..._980_sli_4k_video_card_review/10#.VFHWg_nF_t8

Note how much power the GTX 980 SLI setup uses. Your GTX 970 SLI setup will use less. I still recommend a 750W (despite the review showing that a solid 550W PSU would be enough) to account for any future changes in GPU power consumption in the future and to have the necessary power connectors you need for a GTX 970 SLI setup.

Also, what would be the best place to place the wifi card? Above, between or below the GPU's? I was thinking the middle because of its proximity to the middle intake fan.
Above

Lastly, what brand of router would you recommend? I was thinking of Asus again.
Hit up SmallNetBuilder for route recommendations:
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/rankers/router/view
 
Hey there again,

I was looking at what air coolers are available for 4790k, but man some of those suggested are absolutely huge (Noctua NH-D14 for example), do I need something like that if I was to only to OC on stock volt?

Edit: How reliable are the Crucial MX100 drives? the 512GB version looks tempting for my data drive... (going to put the 840 EVO as system I think).

Just compared the prices between Gaming 7 and Gaming 9 ac Mobos, the price difference is practically the same as a single Asus PCE-AC68u :p. But I reckon the Asus module would be a bit more reliable and stable than the MSI onboard version?
 
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I was looking at what air coolers are available for 4790k, but man some of those suggested are absolutely huge (Noctua NH-D14 for example), do I need something like that if I was to only to OC on stock volt??
Well depends on how hot it gets in your home. You might be able to get away with something like the Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo or (if you don't mind a bit of noise) the Coolermaster Seidon 120V. Though if it gets really hot, then yeah, I'd recommend the NH-D14.

Edit: How reliable are the Crucial MX100 drives? the 512GB version looks tempting for my data drive... (going to put the 840 EVO as system I think).
Reliable enough. No major issues that I've heard of.

Just compared the prices between Gaming 7 and Gaming 9 ac Mobos, the price difference is practically the same as a single Asus PCE-AC68u :p. But I reckon the Asus module would be a bit more reliable and stable than the MSI onboard version?
Two reasons why I recommended the seperate card route:
1) If the onboard wifi on the MSI mobo isn't strong enough, you'd have to buy another wifi adapter to get good signals. Which means more money. With the Asus, if it doesn't work out, you can just send it back and you wouldn't have to send back the motherboard as well
2) If the wifi adapter craps out, no need to send the whole motherboard back.
 
Hey there again :p

Is it possible to switch off the PLX chip on Gigabyte or MSI motherboards?

EDIT: I'll elaborate a bit more:

As per above, I am going to SLI 2 GTX 970's together, which should run at x8/x8 given the PCI lanes available in 4790k. Now, normally there isn't much else in the system that would compete against the two GPU's for lanes, but I am also adding a PCI Wireless adapter, which is a x1 card, and for online games that x1 bandwidth probably would compete against the GPU's for bandwidth.

Now, while doing some research on the net about the PCI lanes, I came across that in some cases, PLX chips can introduce unwanted side effects for dual GPU setups (instability, stuttering etc), so I am left wondering...

1) With my setup (2 GPU's and 1 PCI wifi), would I need a PLX chip? the x1 lane doesn't seem much at all, especially considering even dual GPU's barely use x8 bandwidth.

2) If not, is it possible to, via BIOS setting or software, to manually switch that chip off?

If I cannot and I don't need PLX chip, I might actually have to reevaluate my Mobo choice, again... I had eyes on the Gaming GT board because of its layout (2 PCI slot spaces between the two GPU's instead of the much more common 1 slot space was my main buying point), but then I saw the PLX chip... if the PCI wifi still doesn't warrant me to need a PLX chip, I may have to consider others (such as Gaming 5 or G1.Sniper).
 
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1) No because the PCI-Ex 1 slots will more than likely be connected to the PCI-E 2.0 lanes. Which means that the PCI-E 3.0 lanes will be unaffected.

2) No idea. I've never heard of the PLX chip being an issue before and therefore never needed to look up how to disable it. Read the motherboard manuals if you truly want to go through all the trouble of disabling it.

You can avoid all this "trouble" by just wiring up the PC via ethernet.
 
Thanks again.

I agree with ethernet, unfortunately the internet cable in the master bedroom is degraded to the point where I cannot use that cable for internet connection, so the only viable place for the modem is the living room, which is too long for ethernet cable unless I want to create accidents in the house or fix the cable to the walls, and I find the latter to be a bit more troublesome...

Besides, if I decide to move house, having a wireless connection on hand might make a few things a little easier (eg not having to worry about cabling again).
 
It's not Ethernet cable, though it's slightly more complicated than that

My previous ISP ran through the TV cable in the master bedroom but that cable is damaged, as in the line cannot get strong enough of a signal to get a reliable internet connection, so the modem had to be located at the living room where the cable signal strength is stronge enough. I haven't gotten around to replacing that cable because, my previous location for my computer was in another room which I had an ethernet cable long enough to reach it, thus there wasn't an urgent need to replace the cable.

I have since then moved into the master bedroom and the cable is no longer long enough to reach my computer, so I have to use Wireless. I have also changed my ISP that uses optic cable, which also only has 1 outlet at living room, there is no optic cable in the master bedroom (it's a relatively old apartment).

I'll double check about the price of fixing TV cable and installing a ethernet cable, but for now I figured I'll stick to Wireless, less of a hassle if I move my computer again, and rest of my family already use wireless for their internet as well, so I figured it was easier now and down the line (no pun intended) to stick to Wireless.

TLDR: through a combination of room and ISP changes, my modem is effectively stuck in my living room, and since the rest of the family already uses wireless, I didn't think there was a particularly urgent need to wire the house with Ethernet cable. Perfect excuse to learn more about wireless too :p
 
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Problem is wireless is never as good as wired.
You have heating ducts? I run loads of cat lines through my house in my cold air return vents.
 
No, apartments in Taiwan do not have ducts, we don't usually use centralised heating/cooling system, we prefer per room system (1 ac/heater every room for example). I know I really should just hire someone to wire the ethernet for me, but currently I just find it more of a hassle to do so. Rest of my family uses wireless as well, I feel it's just more convenient on my end to use wireless as well (especially not needing to worry about where I move my computer later down the line).

Although another issue have come up, but again this probably ties in with the wireless adapter.

This is on a G1.Sniper Z97

As you know I am running dual GPU, my wireless adapter is on the top, but I also plan to add a sound card (Xonar DG or D1 most likely), now, I know I am cramming a lot into my rig, but has anyone with experience putting a sound card directly underneath a GPU? Would it affect the performance of the GPU or sound card to any large extent or would I be better off going with an external USB sound card?

Note that I have a side intake fan more or less blowing air directly onto the second GPU, the GPU in question is MSI GTX970 Gaming 4G.
 
How are the ethernet-over-power for latency?

A friend tried it and liked it, so even though I hate the idea of it I tried it and liked it.

Maybe not good for apartment though?
 
Misread the Ethernet thing, the idea sounds nice, but the sockets near the modem are all taken by TV, cordless phones, etc etc... :(, and I would still need a wireless router in the house anyway since my family uses the wifi to go on the net with tablets and phones
 
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All of the parts have arrived and I have finally found the time to install the rig.

However the installing has been abruptively ended due to an oversight: G1.sniper cannot be mounted with 9 screws, it can only be mounted with 6, I have no idea how I even managed to miss that.

Last time I checked with lawyers and experts, Laws of Physics are still non-negotiable, rather than risking it, I have returned the board (whether I will get a refund or not is entirely different story because of our policy in taiwan) and getting UD5H instead.

That being said, I did test out the MSI GTX 970 Golden Edition, and I have found its cooling to be noticeably better than the 'vanilla' Gaming 4G, I was topping at 65C when I ran it through Heaven, and it was able to handle the OC setup I had for the Vanilla. No coil whine with this one either, so I am quite happy with it. My only gripe with it is that they decided to cheap out and not include the dust covers for the ports this time around, so I had to recycle them from another GPU, but still leaves HDMI port open.

Other than that, not much more good news, now I have wait for UD5H to come in now :(

I am no longer recommending G1.Sniper as a motherboard.
 
I missed something here: Why would being held up by six screws be a major issue?
 
You are basically increasing the load of each of the screw holes on the Mobo by 50% (instead of the loading stress shared by 9 holes, it is now held by 6, so a 50% increase in load per hole).

Here was something I really didn't like: the very edge of the motherboard actually rests on the screw holes (I don't know the technical name for the part, but it's the elevated screw hole to give space clearance between the back of the mobo, so for the term 'screw holes' in this post, it refers to that part), and that part of the mobo have circuitry running through it at the back. As far as I know, the screw holes are usually made with copper as it is softer metal and thus is less likely to damage the mobo due to pressure from the screws. In my case (no pun intended), they were made out of steel, which is harder. I found the risk of damage to that part of the motherboard was too high.

I did think of removing those screw holes. But that part of the motherboard would have no screw support at all when parts are being installed on that side of the mobo (power cable and RAM). Installing everything before mounting it? I did think of it, but if I needed to change something on that side somewhere down the road, I'll forget about it and treat it as any other, and I am not very dedicate with force.

Chances of motherboard actually being damaged because of the 3 missing screws? Probably very unlikely, the fact that this motherboard size exists in quantity probably proves this isn't a problem But I didn't like it, so I returned (or at least try to return) the G1.Sniper for UD5H. I really liked the features on G1.Sniper too.

Placebo effect? Probably.
 
Those screw holes that you're talking about are called "standoffs"

Too late now but that's not a major issue. Many motherboards only require six screws these days. My current motherboard only requires six screws. So I think you over-reacted there. It's not a big issue.


EDIT: Oh fuck me: I just noticed your updated sig: Is your current system dead or something?
 
Rig's hardware isn't dead, but bizarrely the system on the old rig just died last night lol... (story of my life). I updated the chipset drivers from Intel and my system decided to give me BSoD after booting up. No losses though, I have a spare SSD I can that I can replace and reinstall, and get the data from my current system SSD at a later time. This rig is being handed over to my family after my new Rig is completed.

I know I probably did overreact, after doing a bit more searching, I found quite a few more Mobo models (Z97-C for example) with the same screw hole layout, so it probably should not be an issue, or else that size wouldn't exist. It's really a peace of mind thing. If Gigabyte won't accept the Mobo back, I'll decide then what I'll do with it.

Just while I am here, is there any way to prevent bending pins in the CPU socket when installing the CPU besides being REALLY careful with it?
 
Just while I am here, is there any way to prevent bending pins in the CPU socket when installing the CPU besides being REALLY careful with it?
Don't rush and don't be stupid.
 
Thanks, hopefully I can manage that >_<

Oh one more thing, after double checking UD5H's CPU compatibility list, it listed DC CPU's (4790k and 4690k) as requiring a different BIOS version than the rest of the Haswell.

If my mobo's BIOS does indeed require updating before I can use 4790k (this assumes the Mobo doesn't already come with the required BIOS), will a mobo in such a situation, get to a bios screen so I can update the bios there, or would I have to put in a compatible CPU first, update it, and THEN take it apart, put the 4790k in and then boot it up?
 
Thanks, hopefully I can manage that >_<

Oh one more thing, after double checking UD5H's CPU compatibility list, it listed DC CPU's (4790k and 4690k) as requiring a different BIOS version than the rest of the Haswell.

If my mobo's BIOS does indeed require updating before I can use 4790k (this assumes the Mobo doesn't already come with the required BIOS), will a mobo in such a situation, get to a bios screen so I can update the bios there, or would I have to put in a compatible CPU first, update it, and THEN take it apart, put the 4790k in and then boot it up?
Usually the latter in my experience.
 
Ok, I have just finished with my build, and want to share my experiences here, given the amount of help I have received here.

1. In case anyone is wondering, my UD5H was manufactured in November this year, and it already came with the latest bios version (F8), so it supports 4790k straight out of the box, didn't even need to update the BIOS. However they didn't come with the adapter for the Case light, power switch, internal speaker etc, which made that part quite tedious to install. This is a minor issue though.

2. Thormax GT was a good case to work with, most metallic edges are chamfered so there is no sharp edges that could wear down wire covers. One thing I didn't quite like was that the fan controller plugs and molex pin felt very cheap. That didn't stop it from doing it's job though. It worked.

I can personally vouch for the quietness of the Fans that came with the case, BitFenix Spectre Pro 200mm, Phantex PH-TC12DX fans and Noctua P14s for being quiet fans. I installed 5 fans in the case, along with 2 on HSF and 2 GPU's, it still ended up being around the same noise as my previous case (which had 4 fans, stock intel cooler and Ref 570).

3. The Phantex HSF performed ok, I am still doing burn test with OCCT now, but I am averaging around 60C on cores, 72C max at 4.4GHz speed. This is with 25C ambient room temp. I think this is OK. The cooler was quite easy to install once you know how to put the fan clips on. For those who are buying the 'red' version, be warned that it actually looks more pink than red. Hyper X Fury red IS red.

4. There was an installation issue I wasn't comfortable with, but here it goes:

PCE-AC68 cannot be installed directly on top of a GPU that has a back plate. Ironic, but I found that out the hard way. I have both the 'Vanilla' and Golden Edition of MSI GTX 970, former does not have a back plate, the latter does. The latter has better cooling so I figured it was better to put a card with better cooling on the top since that might be the card that gets hotter. Turns out, the backplate on the GPU slightly intrudes on the PCI space above it, and the heatsink on PCE-AC68 pretty much takes all of the PCI space available, so they do not fit. I tried installing the AC68 on the bottem PCIX16 slot, but it forced my second X16 slot to run on X4, which meant no SLI.

So I ended up having to install the vanilla card on the top, and the Golden on the bottom, with the AC68 above the Vanilla and Xonar DG right between the GPU's. The top GPU sag very close to the Xonar DG so I will have to research around and see if it is remotely possible to force the last x16 slot to run through the chipset rather than CPU. Chances are not looking good though.

Yeah I know the ethernet thing, but right now it isn't an option, so I guess I have to live with it for now and keep a close eye on the vanilla card, probably just gonna have to find an innovative way to pull the card though.
 
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