Are Windows Phones all but dead?

K

Kelvarr

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 19, 2001
Messages
4,450
I had been wanting to try out Windows Phone for quite some time. One of the biggest things that kept me away were the apps and the calendaring. With Android, my wife and I share our calendars, and it has made it very easy to see what each other is doing. Couple that with Google's attitude about not letting GMail/Calendar work on WindowsPhone, and it has me hesitating to move...

I am getting tired of the bloat, the shitty battery life and the phone lagging though that seems to happen with every Google update.

I don't really want to go Apple/iOS, but it really seems like it is trending in the better direction.
 
TL;DR, IMO, if you can deal with the idiosyncrasies of WP, you can deal with iOS.



Microsoft is still trying. But I've been burned by MS mobile products too many times in the past 5-6 years to ever willingly move back to their mobile platform. That being said, one of my work phones is a Lumia 920. Once a flagship, now even more useless than an iPhone 4S in todays world (one of my retired work phones).

Again, they are trying (beta OS program, developer outreach programs - I've attended one, in the early days of Windows Phone, etc), but to sum up my thoughts (at work, I was one of the earlier champions of the WP7 platform, I hung on through most of Windows Phone 8, as well) into one sentence: they took the worst aspects of iOS and Android, then combined them with the least flexible variant of Windows (ARM).

EDIT: on a final note, my biggest complaint of WP (beyond its interface - a love it/hate it affair), was the web browser. It is a small step better than the one on my Zune HD. While not bad, it has not made any meaningful progress (particularly in interface, ease of use, its annoying tendency to randomly render fonts in odd sizes, etc) vs Android Browser (defunct), Chrome, or Safari (all IMO).
 
Last edited:
An interesting comment in this article about Windows Phone 10 is that there are no flagship WP products - just mid-range phones in the US and low-end phones everywhere else.

Microsoft is saying this is because it's the "phone for everyone". Yo, Microsoft - phones are a status symbol. Duh.
 
MS has a history of screwing up their purchases I don't understand why they wanted Nokia's hardware division so badly... Nokia was making huge success with Lumia Windows Phone... especially when WP 8 came out.

From my perspective, I cringed once I saw what WP was. it was a TURD. So SD card, no loading your own apps, extremely dumbed down dialer, broke compatibility with one of the worlds most extensive apps platform their was WM was Win CE with a dialer added and as such it could run TONS of applications.

WP 8.1 is what MS should have released after Windows Mobile
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
MS has a history of screwing up their purchases I don't understand why they wanted Nokia's hardware division so badly... Nokia was making huge success with Lumia Windows Phone... especially when WP 8 came out.

From my perspective, I cringed once I saw what WP was. it was a TURD. So SD card, no loading your own apps, extremely dumbed down dialer, broke compatibility with one of the worlds most extensive apps platform their was WM was Win CE with a dialer added and as such it could run TONS of applications.

WP 8.1 is what MS should have released after Windows Mobile
Click to expand...

They had an agreement with Nokia about their phone devision.
If things went bad, Microsoft would buy the division and take the loss.

Nokia did a fantastic job on the Lumia phones; I own the 1020 and we also have the 1520's and 925's at work. Most of my friends have lower-end WP's because they offer much more bang/buck compared to a lot of Android phones (run much smoother at a lower cost). Mostly 625's and 820's, they all like them and won't go back to ios or Android in the near future.
I hope Microsoft will launch awesome phones with WP10, because I will sure be on the boat if they do.
 
@OP: I'm not sure what you mean by Android having terrible battery life. All of my Android phones have been able to get good battery life. Including in fact this LG G3. All I did to this LG G3 was keep it entirely stock, while rooting it. I haven't even frozen any apps using Titanium Backup yet, so the root didn't do much. I just make sure to close apps when I'm done with them. If you do that, Android battery life is quite fine. My LG G3 easily lasts throughout the entire day while enduring browsing and everything.I imagine with a few rooting tweaks, it would get even better. But it's not required. For bloat, that's relatively easy to get rid of through rooting as well. But again most of the time not required. There are some phones that suffer heavily from it, and I'll agree that Google Services is... not the best of moves by Google.

My issue with Windows Phones is almost entirely the software. I was considering one, but its software store was meager. I've seen the Windows store on my Surface Pro. If the Windows Phone store is anything like that, I'd stay the hell away from that platform. Tons of totally fake APPs in there, and not much besides. Now, if there was a Windows Phone that was practically my Surface Pro except in my pocket (and still had competent battery life), then that would definitely be worth something. I'm not sure how much due to the UI of any software likely being utterly unsuited to the platform, but... it would at least be something.

But Windows on ARM? With their crappy store? Useless. Android is better supported and actually much closer to stock windows in terms of freedom of usage, and IOS is better at a more stable, locked in platform. Windows on phone goes exactly the same way Windows 8.1 went to me... not far enough. It's like the effort was half-invested. Now I mean I'm pretty sure that there are apps in that store that work fine, and are enough for most users. I just don't see the point.
 
WP is dead.

The rebirth of Windows Mobile is upon us. Windows 10 Mobile will live on top of the corpse of WP.

P.S. That's really what it's going to be called.
 
CHANG3D said:
WP is dead.

The rebirth of Windows Mobile is upon us. Windows 10 Mobile will live on top of the corpse of WP.

P.S. That's really what it's going to be called.
Click to expand...

Carouselambra said:
I just want a new high end phone please. I've had my 920 for over 2 years now...
Click to expand...

They are working to bring all the brands under the "Windows 10" umbrella, so no matter what device/OS flavor you are using, the unified brand/universal apps carry over. All MS has to do is line up a number of high-profile universal apps to go along with the W10 launch (and new hardware: I think the down-model phones world-wide is a running start to something better this fall), they really have a chance to get back in the game. I have a WP 8.1 Samsung S Neo as my daily driver and a W10 Lumia 635 as a tester and couldn't be happier with the state of the OS. It's really an excellent 3rd choice to Android or iOS. If MS brings the hardware and universal apps in a fall launch, we will have ourselves a race.
 
The new Asus phone, utilizing an atom cpu would be a good benchmark to test Windows 10 mobile on. If they unlock the boot loader and Microsoft releases a dev program for phones I'll jump on it.
 
It's not dead, but it needs a major rethink from Microsoft in terms of strategy if it's going to carry on.

To start with, I'd suggest that it must always have a consistently updated high-end flagship, no matter how unprofitable it seems at first. How is anyone supposed to be a loyal fan if you don't know whether or not there will be a replacement for your favorite phone a year or two down the line?

Let's say you bought a Lumia 920 on AT&T in 2012. Great! But instead of getting a Lumia 930 in 2013, your only realistic choice for a flagship was a Lumia 1520... a giant phone that probably wasn't what you wanted. There was a Lumia 930 (aka Lumia Icon) in 2014, but it wasn't available on the carrier that sold you the 920 two years ago. How likely is it that you're going to hold out for one more year and gamble on Microsoft actually giving you the phone you wanted all along? Not very.

Say what you will about Apple, HTC or Samsung, but one of their biggest strengths is reliability. There will always be a more powerful iPhone, One or Galaxy S in the pipeline. Even if it's not the best phone in the market that year, it'll probably be a good fit that keeps you on the platform. Windows Phone just doesn't have that right now.
 
evilsofa said:
An interesting comment in this article about Windows Phone 10 is that there are no flagship WP products - just mid-range phones in the US and low-end phones everywhere else.

Microsoft is saying this is because it's the "phone for everyone". Yo, Microsoft - phones are a status symbol. Duh.
Click to expand...

You have some rumors of some nice phones coming but yea as of now it isn't set in stone.

http://www.windowscentral.com/new-rumor-hardware-specs-two-high-end-lumia-phones

Hopefully att will carry them. I'm up for an upgrade soon and am personally interested in another windows phone. I was hoping for a better camera though. I'm guessing it will be a bit faster than my 2 year old lumia 1020 but I want the resolution.
 
i am due for my upgrade in a week, and for as much as i loved my 928 and as much as i hate my SGS4, i am going to hold out until i see what happens this summer. i really, really want back on WP, but i am not buying into a m8 right now, and that's the only real option on Verizon at the moment.
 
swatbat said:
You have some rumors of some nice phones coming but yea as of now it isn't set in stone.

http://www.windowscentral.com/new-rumor-hardware-specs-two-high-end-lumia-phones

Hopefully att will carry them. I'm up for an upgrade soon and am personally interested in another windows phone. I was hoping for a better camera though. I'm guessing it will be a bit faster than my 2 year old lumia 1020 but I want the resolution.
Click to expand...

Ugh, if Cityman uses the SD810, I'll wait for a different phone.
 
Whats the issue with the SD810? WP previous has been shown to be better optimized to the hardware than with Android. is there any reason to suspect this won't continue to hold true, especially if it has been built from the start to run on the older WP8/WP8.1 hardware?
 
Nimisys said:
i am due for my upgrade in a week, and for as much as i loved my 928 and as much as i hate my SGS4, i am going to hold out until i see what happens this summer. i really, really want back on WP, but i am not buying into a m8 right now, and that's the only real option on Verizon at the moment.
Click to expand...

I have a normal/Android M8 and wife has a GS4. The GS4 is complete garbage and not comparable to my M8 or any newer Android phone in terms of performance or stability. Please don't use that phone as a representation of where Android is on newer phones right now, lol.

It seems that Samsung almost intentionally cripples their older phones beyond usability after just a couple updates. As tempting as the S6 is now with all the positive reviews and testimonies, it's hard to consider when you see people constantly complaining about issues on the S5, Note 4, and their predecessors after an update or two.
 
I recently upgraded from my Samsung Focus, (WP 7.5 for five years) to a HTC One M8. Although the One M8's a year old, it is the closest thing to a WP hardware flagship. I had sat on the fence on staying with WP for two years, but plunged when Amazon slashed the M8 contract price. You can even buy unlocked M8 Win phones on ebay for $300. Been living with the M8 for about a week now.

CHANG3D said:
WP is dead.

The rebirth of Windows Mobile is upon us. Windows 10 Mobile will live on top of the corpse of WP.
Click to expand...

Of course, I installed the W10 insider preview build on the phone. I didn't want to risk waiting forever for the service provider to update my 8.1 phone to 10. And MSFT has announced that they will be deploying phone updates with W10, not the service providers. (something I've wanted since day one with WP) It's a very rough ride. Primary phone/SMS functions are solid. Everything else is a mixed bag. Even the Music Preview app is random crashy. But it didn't break any of my primary 3rd party apps.

Wish I can say 10 Preview gives me hope for the longevity of Windows Phone/Mobile as a platform. I haven't seen anything groundbreaking or wow-inspiring, but it is still a rough Beta.
 
Saturn_V said:
Of course, I installed the W10 insider preview build on the phone. I didn't want to risk waiting forever for the service provider to update my 8.1 phone to 10. And MSFT has announced that they will be deploying phone updates with W10, not the service providers. (something I've wanted since day one with WP) It's a very rough ride. Primary phone/SMS functions are solid. Everything else is a mixed bag. Even the Music Preview app is random crashy. But it didn't break any of my primary 3rd party apps.

Wish I can say 10 Preview gives me hope for the longevity of Windows Phone/Mobile as a platform. I haven't seen anything groundbreaking or wow-inspiring, but it is still a rough Beta.
Click to expand...

Yea the beta is still very rough. I tried it on my lumia 1020. The lock screen locked up the entire phone. I ended up having to roll the phone back to 8.1.
 
Nimisys said:
Whats the issue with the SD810? WP previous has been shown to be better optimized to the hardware than with Android. is there any reason to suspect this won't continue to hold true, especially if it has been built from the start to run on the older WP8/WP8.1 hardware?
Click to expand...

The fact that its a power hungry piece of crap that barely outperforms the SD805 because its spending its entire life throttling? LG proved that using the 808 was a much better idea.
 
It's in incubation. Like the idea of Windows 10 ARM running Android and iOS apps. Even better if it's Windows 10 x64 running desktop software along with Android and iOS apps. I'll be first to switch to one integrated device.
 
Kelvarr said:
I had been wanting to try out Windows Phone for quite some time. One of the biggest things that kept me away were the apps and the calendaring. With Android, my wife and I share our calendars, and it has made it very easy to see what each other is doing. Couple that with Google's attitude about not letting GMail/Calendar work on WindowsPhone, and it has me hesitating to move...

I am getting tired of the bloat, the shitty battery life and the phone lagging though that seems to happen with every Google update.

I don't really want to go Apple/iOS, but it really seems like it is trending in the better direction.
Click to expand...

If you're worried about bloat with an Android OS device, either A: Root and give yourself a pure vanilla experience, or B: Invest in a couple of the Nexus line phones.

I'm on my 2nd Nexus phone (Moto Nexus 6) and I don't ever, EVER seeing myself going with another line. I get no bloat and the only time I have any type of clocking/hanging issues, that's usually meaning it's time to reboot the damn device :D
 
Saturn_V said:
I recently upgraded from my Samsung Focus, (WP 7.5 for five years) to a HTC One M8. Although the One M8's a year old, it is the closest thing to a WP hardware flagship. I had sat on the fence on staying with WP for two years, but plunged when Amazon slashed the M8 contract price. You can even buy unlocked M8 Win phones on ebay for $300. Been living with the M8 for about a week now.



Of course, I installed the W10 insider preview build on the phone. I didn't want to risk waiting forever for the service provider to update my 8.1 phone to 10. And MSFT has announced that they will be deploying phone updates with W10, not the service providers. (something I've wanted since day one with WP) It's a very rough ride. Primary phone/SMS functions are solid. Everything else is a mixed bag. Even the Music Preview app is random crashy. But it didn't break any of my primary 3rd party apps.

Wish I can say 10 Preview gives me hope for the longevity of Windows Phone/Mobile as a platform. I haven't seen anything groundbreaking or wow-inspiring, but it is still a rough Beta.
Click to expand...

they said that with WP 7 and they had to swallow their ball sac... let's hope they don't cave again....
 
Henri108 said:
They had an agreement with Nokia about their phone devision.
If things went bad, Microsoft would buy the division and take the loss.

Nokia did a fantastic job on the Lumia phones; I own the 1020 and we also have the 1520's and 925's at work. Most of my friends have lower-end WP's because they offer much more bang/buck compared to a lot of Android phones (run much smoother at a lower cost). Mostly 625's and 820's, they all like them and won't go back to ios or Android in the near future.
I hope Microsoft will launch awesome phones with WP10, because I will sure be on the boat if they do.
Click to expand...

speaking of bang for the buck Lumia 6XX phones are in the $70-80 range....
 
WP is essentially dead you would be very stupid to buy one unless you use it in a very appliance like manner. All phones even black berry are fine if all you do is check email, surf the web etc.... But if you have more specific needs you might run out of options. And with the failure of windows phones sometimes apps that were there are getting pulled.

Now windows 10 and more unified programming might change this but I wouldn't be the person to stick your neck out and find out.

WP doesn't even have a good phone which is completely stupid. MS needs a surface phone that is really feature rich to drive sales. Wouldn't hurt them at all to bring an x86 phone to the market either that docs and becomes a full PC.
 
Kelvarr said:
I had been wanting to try out Windows Phone for quite some time. One of the biggest things that kept me away were the apps and the calendaring. With Android, my wife and I share our calendars, and it has made it very easy to see what each other is doing. Couple that with Google's attitude about not letting GMail/Calendar work on WindowsPhone, and it has me hesitating to move...
Click to expand...
Who told you that about the calendar? I have 8.1 on an Icon and also had 8(and 7 briefly). My calendaring has always worked great. My wife has an android and we pretty much use just a shared google calendar. I have my google account synced with my phone and use both the calendar and gmail just fine through the built in mail and calendering without any separate app downloads. I have my work outlook calendar, my outlook.com calendar, and my google/gmail calendar all synced up on my phone and I really like the calendar built into 8.1 vs what I used on my old android phone.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
they said that with WP 7 and they had to swallow their ball sac... let's hope they don't cave again....
Click to expand...

I remember the "Where's My Update?" page back in 7. I was on the Pre-Mango preview builds too- those were rough days. I would certainly understand carriers saying no if the updates include FW that can potentially brick phones if not installed correctly.
 
It's a real shame and also reason to get very mad at the mismanagement :mad:

10 year head start in the mobile space with an awesome product, Windows Mobile - squandered.
A great product in WP with a smooth OS, nice UI and useful features - totally mismanaged, can't get across a simple message, can't decide on product lines on when to update them.
Billions spent on marketing and development with very little to show for it.

ALL they need is decent app support and a consistent strategy which they might have with Win 10. The hardware is great, price points are the best, the software is the easiest to use for most users.
 
MrCrispy said:
The hardware is great, price points are the best, the software is the easiest to use for most users.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you get this from. The price point is the same or more that Android phones and the UI is not easier, it is confusing to users as it is completely different than iOS and Android or their Windows desktop PC.
 
MrCrispy said:
It's a real shame and also reason to get very mad at the mismanagement :mad:

10 year head start in the mobile space with an awesome product, Windows Mobile - squandered.
A great product in WP with a smooth OS, nice UI and useful features - totally mismanaged, can't get across a simple message, can't decide on product lines on when to update them.
Billions spent on marketing and development with very little to show for it.

ALL they need is decent app support and a consistent strategy which they might have with Win 10. The hardware is great, price points are the best, the software is the easiest to use for most users.
Click to expand...

I'd disagree that Windows Mobile was an "awesome" product. It was pioneering, to be sure, but it reflected what was wrong with Microsoft during the Gates/Ballmer era. It was an attempt to shoehorn a desktop-like interface into phones (see: the heavy dependence on a stylus as a mouse substitute), to cater to business users over everyday people and to emphasize the "it's Windows!" consistency over making a good experience.

A large part of why Apple (and eventually, Google) steamrolled Microsoft in mobile was that it willingly broke from desktop concepts and designed an interface that would be accessible to everyone, not just diehard Windows fans who really want to edit Excel files on the subway. Windows Phone was an acknowledgment that Microsoft had fundamentally misjudged things, and that Windows Mobile only got significant share because it was one of the least terrible options in a lousy pre-iPhone market.
 
Great thing about WM phones is how even low spec ones are running compared to more powerfull on paper androids.

For fun I've bought myself Lumia 735 and with 4 pathetic A7 cores it's hard to notice diffrence to 4 much faster A9 cores in Note 2.
 
Doing what though? My guess is you're just navigating the home screen but if you're doing anything more demanding like extracting .rar files, playing fps or chess games, running emulators, etc. it'll be inadequate. I like my Note II but it's about half the performance of Exynos 7420 in the Galaxy S6. If you use your phone as a basic phone then I'm sure it's fine but if using it like a computer not so much.
 
Aurelius said:
I'd disagree that Windows Mobile was an "awesome" product. It was pioneering, to be sure, but it reflected what was wrong with Microsoft during the Gates/Ballmer era. It was an attempt to shoehorn a desktop-like interface into phones (see: the heavy dependence on a stylus as a mouse substitute), to cater to business users over everyday people and to emphasize the "it's Windows!" consistency over making a good experience.

A large part of why Apple (and eventually, Google) steamrolled Microsoft in mobile was that it willingly broke from desktop concepts and designed an interface that would be accessible to everyone, not just diehard Windows fans who really want to edit Excel files on the subway. Windows Phone was an acknowledgment that Microsoft had fundamentally misjudged things, and that Windows Mobile only got significant share because it was one of the least terrible options in a lousy pre-iPhone market.
Click to expand...

the reason MS lost market share is directly due to WP 7... Windows Mobile had at one point 42% of the market (2007) They lost market share after that because they were at the time signaling that they were going to move away from that platform as WP 7 was supposed to be a 2009 release....
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
the reason MS lost market share is directly due to WP 7... Windows Mobile had at one point 42% of the market (2007) They lost market share after that because they were at the time signaling that they were going to move away from that platform as WP 7 was supposed to be a 2009 release....
Click to expand...

I don't think the Osborne Effect (that is, people holding off for the new platform) hurt Microsoft's share. The market was simply moving to iPhone and Android, and Microsoft didn't have an effective answer to either of them.
 
I had high hopes for the 640, but they delayed US release and there is no definite word when it's coming out. I gave up and got an iPhone (again) . At least when I retire my iPhone, it is at least worth something. I wanted touch less voice control without the flaws that Lollipop had ( I loved my moto x, Lollipop not so much) . 640 with the denim update was the answer and the alternative, by the time it releases stateside. It will be too little too late.
 
Aurelius said:
I don't think the Osborne Effect (that is, people holding off for the new platform) hurt Microsoft's share. The market was simply moving to iPhone and Android, and Microsoft didn't have an effective answer to either of them.
Click to expand...

No it was that + WP7 being a giant turd. No one in their right mind would downgrade from a WM 6.5X device to WP7.. and yes it was a downgrade

1. craptastic dialer
2. no expandable storage
3. no side loading
4. no customization
5. no backwards compatibility with all of WM/CE apps that were in the market place

MS finally (mostly) got it right with WP 8 and 8.1 but imho it most likely is too little too late.
 
You have many reasons that MS is losing share.

The one that counts for me is TOTAL lack of a premium phone. MS simply has no answer to the phones like the galaxy note. Lots of people who buy iphones do so cause they think its cool, they want the 6+ but cant afford it so they buy a cheaper older model like the 5C. But MS has no phone that people want. Android users often want the galaxy note but settle for a lesser model. Nobody wants a windows phone because they don't have anything at the top end.

All 5 of the reasons Yeu mentioned are valid as well. MS has a phone landscape that looks a lot more like apples there really isn't much choice.

For a little while MS was getting back in the game with ultra cheap phones but of course it didn't take long for android vendors to counter. And when they did counter some of them didn't sacrifice removable storage etc....
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
No it was that + WP7 being a giant turd. No one in their right mind would downgrade from a WM 6.5X device to WP7.. and yes it was a downgrade

1. craptastic dialer
2. no expandable storage
3. no side loading
4. no customization
5. no backwards compatibility with all of WM/CE apps that were in the market place

MS finally (mostly) got it right with WP 8 and 8.1 but imho it most likely is too little too late.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that most of those mattered much outside of number five. It's more a matter of ditching enough familiar features from earlier operating systems (however temporarily) that there weren't many reasons to switch platforms for WP7's advantages. I think Microsoft understood the urgency of needing an answer to the iPhone, but it didn't really grasp the magnitude of the resources it needed to do this right. It needed to launch with an OS that matched its rivals in nearly every area and offered enough unique twists to lure you over, even if it meant spending billions and hiring hundreds of people. Instead, it kept treating mobile as a side project and hoped that simply having a new Microsoft mobile OS would be enough.
 
I had a Dell Axim X5 from ~2002 running Windows Mobile that pretty much did everything today's smartphones do. It had a compact flash Socket 802.11g card for WIFI and Sprint CF2031 2.5G card for calling and internet connectivity although only one can be used at a time, VPN and telnet client, browser, streaming video but mostly limited to WIFI due to bandwidth, etc. Then, Android came out that was easier, more polished, more reliable and with more apps. Microsoft had a huge lead but couldn't capitalize on it and there's really no room for a 3rd player when the other two are so entrenched. Only way for Microsoft to get back to relevancy in mobile is to leverage their desktop OS dominance with a Windows 10 x64 phone that uses modern interface in phone mode and switch to desktop when docked to substitute as a laptop.
 
Aurelius said:
I'm not sure that most of those mattered much outside of number five. It's more a matter of ditching enough familiar features from earlier operating systems (however temporarily) that there weren't many reasons to switch platforms for WP7's advantages. I think Microsoft understood the urgency of needing an answer to the iPhone, but it didn't really grasp the magnitude of the resources it needed to do this right. It needed to launch with an OS that matched its rivals in nearly every area and offered enough unique twists to lure you over, even if it meant spending billions and hiring hundreds of people. Instead, it kept treating mobile as a side project and hoped that simply having a new Microsoft mobile OS would be enough.
Click to expand...

Windows Mobile was doing just fine against the iphone...until WP 7 MS user base did not want the walled garden and the sales showed it
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
Windows Mobile was doing just fine against the iphone...until WP 7 MS user base did not want the walled garden and the sales showed it
Click to expand...

No, it wasn't. This isn't up for debate: Windows Mobile's share plunged from 12 percent in 2007 to 4.1 percent in 2010, and about half of that drop occurred between 2008 and 2009. Seeing as how WP7 didn't ship until late 2010, and Android didn't have any real traction until late 2009, you can safely correlate a lot of Windows Mobile's decline to the iPhone.

Also, as the iPhone's continued success suggests, people don't mind walled gardens... if the features you get are good enough. The problem is that WP7 was that Microsoft didn't give people much incentive to step inside its garden. You had the tile interface, the People Hub (which was somewhat counterintuitive) and integration with Microsoft services people didn't really use... and that's about it. You had to forego a lot of features that were common in Android and iOS by that point, and it took years for WP8 / 8.1 to catch up. By that point, it was too late.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top