Advice for an Audio Novice

I've been lurking a few boards for a while, trying to learn more about the field (about which I honestly know little) but just don't have enough information about the field to make an informed decision as of yet.

Let me preface my situation by saying, I do not consider myself much of an audiophile. While I enjoy good sound, I'm not sure I have the range to appreciate the subtleties of very high end audio systems, though that might just be inexperience talking.

Anyway, I've been using some Klipsch 4.1 speakers for years (it's been years since I've upgraded for various reasons), but they have developed a horrible hissing/static whenever I turn them on and nothing I've attempted has been able to fix them. As a result, I need a new and better audio system in lines with my new gaming build. (For comparison's sake, the MB is an ASUS Maximus VII Hero if I go with onboard.)

My tentative budget for good, lasting (as in a few years or more before a serious upgrade) sound equipment is ~$2-300 (I live on the Southeast Coast of the US). I can adjust that higher if truly necessary, but I'd have to be convinced as to the need and, again, I don't think I'm the right target for super high-end equipment. My primary usage would be gaming, movies, and music (I listen to a range here, but mostly rock, classical, and some lighter metal.)

Now, my main quandary is speakers versus headphones. Most discussion I've read elsewhere focused on headphones, but my concern is that I've never really used headphones for long periods of time and, with my glasses and sensitivity to temperature, they may be uncomfortable to wear for long periods. I know this is somewhat subjective, but is this a reasonable concern in anyone's experience, even with open headphones?

Also, as I don't have to worry about bothering neighbors/roommates (I'm on a separate floor) and my reading suggests they still have better sound (though I'm fully willing to hear otherwise), I'm wondering if speakers are a better option for me. Are there any real advantages to headphones that I have not considered, given their popularity here, beyond portability and a self-contained unit? Any thoughts on pros and cons of either option?

If I did decide to go with headphones, I think I'd prefer open due to the heating concerns and I just don't have the experience to speak as to my bass/treble preferences. I'm not a big FPS player, so I'm not sure how useful a larger sounstage would be for me, but I'm open to advice. I've read a number of threads so I think I know the basic models of headphones to try so as to find my best personal fit (Sennheiser HD558/HD600, Beyerdynamic 770/880/990, AKG k701/2). I've read the Audio Technica ATH-M50 is really tight to the head, so likely isn't a good option for me, and the ATH-AD100x, AKG k712 Pros, or Fostex TH600 and similar are getting beyond my price range. My reading has also pointed to the most recommended DAC/AMPs as the Fiio E10K, Schiit Magni+Modi, and Mayflower O2+ODAC (though this last is likely too expensive), so I have that information should I end up needing one. If I did get headphones, though, I'd at least try them with onboard sound first. Naturally, I'm open to other suggestions as well.

However, if I decided on speakers, I have essentially no idea where to go. I'd be looking for a 2.1 (I don't have room for a 5.1 system and I'd prefer two good speakers if I decided to add on later) system and am open to a custom solution (i.e., buying monitor or bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer separately, perhaps over time for a larger total budget). Are there good options which I could afford along with a DAC/AMP within my budget? I'd appreciate any reviews that could be offered for suggested systems as well.

Essentially, what is the best quality sound I can find for my price range?

Thanks for any help.

Well, in general most people will say headphones give you more for the money. At a given price point they can provide greater linearity, lower distortion, better detail, etc. They just cost less to build. So while $300 speakers are fairly budget, $300 headphones are pretty good.

The area they lose in is imaging. Speakers provide a more convincing soundfield, particularly if you have surround sound.

If you want headphones comfy for wearing with glasses, I'd look at Audio Technicas. They are the most comfy phones I've ever worn. You could look at ath-ad900x or ath-ad1000x if you wanted to push your budget. I find the open phones more comfy. The closed phones are still good though and have more bass. They are the same thing, just no "d" so ath-a1000x and ath-a900x.

For an amp/DAC, Fiio makes some cheap good choices. An Andes E07K would do nicely.

If you want speakers, fir you want to decide if you want to do powered or passive speakers. Powered are computer/studio speakers where you plug in a line level input, and there's an amp in the speakers. Passive are the home theater speakers where you hook them in to an amp/receiver. Best to design your system around one setup.

Sycraft said:

Well, in general most people will say headphones give you more for the money. At a given price point they can provide greater linearity, lower distortion, better detail, etc. They just cost less to build. So while $300 speakers are fairly budget, $300 headphones are pretty good.

The area they lose in is imaging. Speakers provide a more convincing soundfield, particularly if you have surround sound.

If you want headphones comfy for wearing with glasses, I'd look at Audio Technicas. They are the most comfy phones I've ever worn. You could look at ath-ad900x or ath-ad1000x if you wanted to push your budget. I find the open phones more comfy. The closed phones are still good though and have more bass. They are the same thing, just no "d" so ath-a1000x and ath-a900x.

For an amp/DAC, Fiio makes some cheap good choices. An Andes E07K would do nicely.

If you want speakers, fir you want to decide if you want to do powered or passive speakers. Powered are computer/studio speakers where you plug in a line level input, and there's an amp in the speakers. Passive are the home theater speakers where you hook them in to an amp/receiver. Best to design your system around one setup.

Click to expand...

That explanation on the differences certainly cleared up a few things for me, but your last paragraph rather frames my question.

I imagine passive speakers are cheaper in general, but then I'd have to purchase an amp and/or DAC on top of that, which might very well put it outside my budget. Similarly, decent powered speakers are, as you said, likely to be beyond my price point for quality.

Just as a bottom line, are there speaker options, of either sort, equal or superior in sound quality to $300 headphones for a similar price? Also, exactly how significant is the difference in soundstage or imaging as you put it? Is it something a non-audiophile would easily recognize?

If not, well, my direction is decided. If so, I'd appreciate suggestions and I'd have more research to do.

It sounds like you should get an amp or receiver. That will take care of both problems. You could then go the headphones route and you will be set, you just have to plug them into the amp/receiver. You would also have the speaker option with said amp/receiver. My setup works fantastic for me and everyone that has been in my office has liked it. I have an HK 3490 with a pair of nearfield speakers: Chane A1rx-c. When I want headphones on I just plug whatever I feel like using at the time into the receiver.

There are so many options that are much cheaper and many that are $30k+. I think your best bet would be to find something you think would work for you then come back with your idea for some constructive criticism.

If you want to be awesome you can snag a vintage receiver from eBay or Craigslist for fairly cheap and use a 3.5mm jack splitter from the PC. Just add some decent headphones like the Sony MDR V6 or JVC HARX700 and you will be golden until you can afford a decent pair of speakers like the Sony SS-B1000 (or 3000) or the Pioneer SP-BS21-LR.

edit - By splitter I meant one of these.

personally I say (and do) go vintage bookshelf speakers plus receiver..

depending on your location and luck (at least in my case I have scored a bunch of stuff that could make a solid 2.0 or 2.1 system for under $100 or even $50) you could get a nice 2.0/2.1 setup and still have budget for a decent set of headphones.


check thriftstores / estate sales / even CL .. you can find some pretty nice stuff cheap.. or else join a website like audio karma and subscribe they have a lot of nice gear for sale on the subscriber area for decent prices generally.

right now I'm listening to (by far not my best score money wise) but a very solid pc listening set up:

pretty minty Pioneer SX-3600 $80 + (bought on the audiokarma site) NHT SuperZero's ($55~ish shipped) and a NHT SW1 subwoofer (thriftstore find $10) which again isn't the cheapest system I have scored by a large margin but for example if you'd got the same and had a $300~ budget you'd still have $155~ for headphones..

That sounds reasonable enough, but this tack seems to depend upon my knowing what brands and models are good finds, and I simply don't. I'll reiterate that I know very little about audio systems in general. Are there any generally reliable or commonly recommended units?

Exactly what should I be looking for, particularly in terms of amp or receiver? Most of the information I have been able to find is focused on their use in Home Theater systems; do the considerations change when purposed for a computer (beyond the limited use of HDMI and the like)? What features are more or less important for this use? If I could find used or discounted prices, that would help as I'd have real trouble justifying a $450 expenditure such as the HK 3490 mentioned earlier. Would a decent Creative or Asus soundcard be too much worse for a non-audiophile?

Also, I should probably note that while I do listen to music on a somewhat regular basis, it is entirely secondary to movies and gaming for my use. Does that affect the recommendations at all?

Thanks for all the help.

Indrik said:

That explanation on the differences certainly cleared up a few things for me, but your last paragraph rather frames my question.

I imagine passive speakers are cheaper in general, but then I'd have to purchase an amp and/or DAC on top of that, which might very well put it outside my budget. Similarly, decent powered speakers are, as you said, likely to be beyond my price point for quality.

Just as a bottom line, are there speaker options, of either sort, equal or superior in sound quality to $300 headphones for a similar price? Also, exactly how significant is the difference in soundstage or imaging as you put it? Is it something a non-audiophile would easily recognize?

If not, well, my direction is decided. If so, I'd appreciate suggestions and I'd have more research to do.

Click to expand...

So I would say that roughly $1500 speakers gets you about the same detail as $300-400 headphones. This is all rough numbers, of course, but in general that's sort of what you are looking at. There is just much less material used in making headphones, so they can cost less.

In terms of imaging, you easily notice it. With headphones, the sound is stuck inside your head since the transducers sit on your ears. With speakers, it is out in the world. Also your brain notices when you turn your head, even a small amount, and the soundstage turns with you on headphones and it sounds wrong.

I prefer speakers for sure. However I'm running about $5000-6000 of speakers and amps vs about $400-500 of headphones. For that I get similar sound quality in terms of distortion, balance, linearity and so on, but a better sound stage with the speakers, and of course no need to wear anything.

Also speakers interact with room acoustics, which screws up their response. Correcting for that is expensive. You can do some with electronic correction, like Audyssey MultEQ found in receivers (what I use) or the Dirac room correction software for computers, but some of it has to be dealt with physically by putting up bass traps and so on. Headphones, of course, have no such issues and that all costs money. I have a grand or so of correction in my room and I'd like to add two grand more.

Really it is all in what you like, but on a budget, headphones are hard to beat.

Something you can consider is doing both. Get yourself some real nice headphones. Then, when money permits, get a good pair of powered speakers. You can then switch as you wish.

Also if you like you can have different systems with different goals. Maybe you spend a lot on good headphones that are as quality and neutral as possible, but then later get some cheap Logitech 5.1 speakers for games. That way you can have the immersion of a surround sound system when you want it, but quality sound when you want that.

There's no single right answer. Also it is whatever sounds good to you. If you find cheap speakers you like the sound of, that's fine. Your goal needn't be perfect accuracy, if you like things that are overly bass heavy or what not, that's not wrong. You get what you like.

Indrik said:

That sounds reasonable enough, but this tack seems to depend upon my knowing what brands and models are good finds, and I simply don't. I'll reiterate that I know very little about audio systems in general. Are there any generally reliable or commonly recommended units?

Exactly what should I be looking for, particularly in terms of amp or receiver? Most of the information I have been able to find is focused on their use in Home Theater systems; do the considerations change when purposed for a computer (beyond the limited use of HDMI and the like)? What features are more or less important for this use? If I could find used or discounted prices, that would help as I'd have real trouble justifying a $450 expenditure such as the HK 3490 mentioned earlier.

Also, I should probably note that while I do listen to music on a somewhat regular basis, it is entirely secondary to movies and gaming for my use. Does that affect the recommendations at all?

Thanks for all the help.

Click to expand...

as far as what to look for.. it is a bit of a learning curve.. and a bit of a gamble... also.. you can only test sometimes.. ideally if you can plug stuff in and see if it powers up and especially if you hear relays click over. (not all gear has relays however)..

i knew essentially d*ck all 3yrs ago... i joined AK and read up and took my smart phone and if i saw something interesting i'd look up and see what i could find out about it.

that said... if you are more using it for movies and whatnot... that is a bit of a quandary as you'd be better off with a new hdmi capable AV receiver and 3.1 setup (L / R /C + Sub) if you don't have room for the surrounds however ur budget is light for that.

with small space and a $300 budget maybe a sound bar?.. but I honestly know next to nothing about sound bar setups / what would be good value at that price?..

I might be tempted to do something like this if i was y'all and was focus on movies... get a decent entry av receiver and books shelf speakers for now.. then add a center channel/sub later if the budget was blown by the receiver / bookshelf speakers.

the trouble looking for used speakers ./vintage speakers is they'd be hard to match with a center channel usually... but you could also look for used av speakers / receivers as especially after xmas people may have got upgrades for xmas and might be moving old stuff out?


going new something like this for example

Yamaha RX-V377 $250~
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V377-5-1-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B00HZE2WW8/ref=dp_ob_title_ce


Pioneer BS41 $130~
hhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117406

(or if you must for being closer to budge BS21 $60~)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117405&cm_re=bs21-_-82-117-405-_-Product

Pioneer SP-C21 ($50 seems to be on sale right now at least)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=82-117-404


and then add a sub down the road

Soundbar? Though I'm watching movies, this is still primarily a gaming pc, not an htpc. I just want good sound as well.

Also, I'd like to reiterate an earlier question that may have been lost. Would a sound card be good alternative to an external DAC or receiver, given my limited budget? I know the external solution would have superior quality, but how significant is the difference on decent speakers/headphones?

Indrik said:

Would a sound card be good alternative to an external DAC or receiver, given my limited budget? I know the external solution would have superior quality, but how significant is the difference on decent speakers/headphones?

Click to expand...

What are you using for source? What motherboard?

HeavensCloud said:

What are you using for source? What motherboard?

Click to expand...

Sorry for the delay, I've been rather busy the last couple days. The MB is ASUS Maximus VII Hero, but I'm not entirely sure what you mean by source in this context. Could you clarify?

Indrik said:

Soundbar? Though I'm watching movies, this is still primarily a gaming pc, not an htpc. I just want good sound as well.

Also, I'd like to reiterate an earlier question that may have been lost. Would a sound card be good alternative to an external DAC or receiver, given my limited budget? I know the external solution would have superior quality, but how significant is the difference on decent speakers/headphones?

Click to expand...

Depends on the soundcard. For speakers, any soundcard is fine. DACs are just not the problem these days, even cheap ones do a great job. So since speakers are being amped elsewhere, your onboard is fine. Headphones can be problematic. Many soundcards have no headphone amp, or a shitty one. Sometimes, you have phones this works ok with, but other times it hurts sound quality. Particularly if you have efficient, low impedance phones as many are these days a crap amp will have an audible hiss, and weak bass (other issues too but those are the most notable).

Now ASUS sticks some pretty good amps on their boards supposedly. I haven't tested it, but one of our students has and is pretty satisfied. He tried it vs a headphone amp I loaned him and didn't really see any difference. So probably ok to stick with that.

Basically with headphones you need to check 3 things:

1) Can you hear a hiss? If so, an amp is indicated as good ones should be so quiet you can't hear them.

2) Does it get loud enough to make you happy? This is usually not a problem but with high impedance phones (like the Sennheiser 650s or something) it can be an issue. If you are maxing the volume dial and it isn't enough, then you need an amp.

3) Is the bass good? This is depend on the headphones too, of course, but if there's no bass to be heard, an amp is probably indicated.

All in all, if you are happy with the sound, then good to go. It only has to make you happy.

You don't need a soundcard with that board if you aren't an audiophle, which you aren't. I think you would have fun going the vintage route. It's much cheaper overall and you can easily run cans or bookshelf speakers from an old receiver.

Whether headphones get uncomfortable and how exactly depends on the model. I have some very good sounding ones that are very uncomfortable.

I would get something like a Shure 840 which is reasonably priced and universally comfortable. The Shure headphones are generally comfortable, don't have particular sound weaknesses and are durable. Overall my favorite vendor. The one thing they don't do is very precise rendering of bass, so I can't use them to find out what a bassist is playing. But that is probably a minor consideration for most, and the Shure sound "good" as in pleasant and with good soundstage.

Headphones will always beat speakers for quality, and that is ensured for any given system we here have by the fact that you probably aren't willing to make large scale changes to your room had on analyzer results. You can get speakers as expensive as it gets, without the room cooperating you are left right behind high class headphones.