Geohot puts up legal defense dontaion links

dr.stevil

dr.stevil

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
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http://geohot.com/

Donations here are for legal defense ONLY
I checked with my lawyers before setting this up
If you have another substantial way to donate aside from money, let me know

tl;dr
Sony is lame, and is suing me for hacking MY OWN PS3. Help me own them in court

Sony are bullies
Sony doesn't care if what you did was legal, if they don't like it, they sue. Sony tried to sue a guy for getting his AIBO to do non Sony approved tricks, making it apparent that they don't really care about piracy, they care about control. In (Sony v Bleem), Bleem was the winner on all counts, but the high cost of a legal defense shut them down. Fortunately, that suit helped set precedent on the legality of emulators. I would hate to lose this case due to resource starvation, and with the support of the masses, I won't. Lets turn the bully back on itself. This case has the ability to set a huge precedent for consoles and all closed systems to come. The other two should be begging Sony to back off.

Sony sued the wrong guy
I am an advocate against mass piracy, do not distribute anyone's copyrighted work but my own, do not take crap lying down, and am even pro DRM in a sense. For example, I believe Apple has every right to lock down their iPhone in the factory as much as they want, but once it's paid for and mine, I have the right to unlock it, smash it, jailbreak it, look at it, and hack on it. Fortunately, the courts agree with me on this point.
My PS3 goal has been to provide users a legitimate path to homebrew, which by the standards of all previous cases (or, in reverse), is 100% legal. Sony does not even try to allege piracy or copyright infringement in this case, they allege I did things like play "super mario world, an unauthorized game" on MY PS3. And access MY PS3 in an unauthorized way. Who are they to authorize what I do with my taxed and paid for property?
fail0verflow's goal was even nobler than mine. They wanted to give you back a feature Sony illegally stole, Linux on your PS3. It's shameful on Sony's part that they are being sued at all. If you have a problem with pirates, sue them, don't sue people who point out your shortcomings.

Why should I care about your personal legal troubles?
You shouldn't. For example, if I was taken to court for sex crimes in Sweden, I would never ask for donations. But this case isn't about me. Clearly I am not being sued because of something I have that Sony wants, I am being sued in order to send a message that Sony is not to be messed with. But if I(and all codefendants likewise) actually win this, we have the power to send a much stronger message back. That consumers have rights, and we aren't afraid to stand up for them.

Why should I trust you? I just saw you trying to rap battle Sony
My attempts at humor aside, I do take this whole matter very seriously. Again, it's not about me, I was on the verge of quitting this stuff last June, and I would hate to be the one who sets a reputation for hackers that all a company has to do is sue us and we back down. In fact, I want the opposite reputation set, that the more a company tries to abuse the legal system, the harder we rally back. I will be the first person in line on the launch date of the Xperia Play, and itching to get my hands on the Next GEOHOT Project.

Why did you wait until now to set this up?
I didn't want to be trigger happy, and thought the suit might go away quickly. Also, I had to consult with my lawyers about how to do this. It's been over a month, and it looks like this is going to be a drawn out case. I am in this for the long haul. I am very serious ethically when I take donations, for all iPhone work I only accepted after the fact, here after the fact is too late. Now I am pot committed so to say.

How much should I donate?
Put it this way, Sony has 5 lawyers, I have 2. I'd like to level the playing field, and really get some hard hitters in there. I have already racked up over 10k in legal bills; donate whatever you feel like. Leftover donations at the end of all this will be donated to the EFF.

What if I want to donate more than I feel comfortable sending through PayPal?
I'm excited! Email me, we'll figure it out.

Why doesn't the EFF fund this?
Ask them. They have offered to provide some legal help though, which is much appreciated.

Donate to help you, you're the reason I can't play Modern Warfare now…
No, I'm not. Kakaroto explains this really well here. I have never played PS3 online ever. Frankly I'm amazed by the apparent ease with which these cheats were created, security 101, why is the security in the client anyway? I had no idea this would happen, and am in full support of the cheaters being permabanned from PSN.

I'm a poor college student, what can I do to help?
I feel you, don't worry. Spread the word. Let people know how you feel about what Sony is doing. Let Sony know how you feel about what Sony is doing.

What if SCEA tries to settle?
Lets just say, I want the settlement terms to include OtherOS on all PS3s and an apology on the PlayStation blog for ever removing it. It'd be good PR for Sony too, lord knows they could use it. I'm also willing to accept a trade, a legit path to homebrew for knowledge of how to stop new firmwares from being decrypted.

Why isn't SCEA trying to settle?
RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE...THEY POINTED OUT OUR SECURITY FLAWS...IM SO MADDDDDDDD...WAHHHHHH

Check out the new blog
Old index page for archival purposes here

Contact Me
geohot ... gmail
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just donated

This is a very important case for anyone that enjoys playing with hardware and pushing it past it's intended use. Regardless of what you think about the guy, it would be a bad thing for Sony to win this. If you believe that once you buy something, it should be yours to do with as you please, then throw the guy a few bucks if you can. The leftover cash is being donated to the EFF
 
dr.stevil said:
http://geohot.com/

If you believe that once you buy something, it should be yours to do with as you please, then throw the guy a few bucks if you can.
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In that case, I suppose that once you buy a gun or a knife, it should give you the right to freely kill people. I mean you paid money for the gun, why the hell can't you use it however you want to??
 
Thank you for the post.

Intelligent individuals must band together against the unwashed masses.
 
I'm not against what he does, but I"m surely not going to support him with cash money. I have my own bills to worry about.
 
thecrafter said:
In that case, I suppose that once you buy a gun or a knife, it should give you the right to freely kill people. I mean you paid money for the gun, why the hell can't you use it however you want to??
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this is more of I bought a gun I should be able to put a scope on it kind of thing..... He clearly states he is against piracy , and what not. ..... Just saying
 
This is going to be an interesting case. Personally, I agree to both sides. On Geohot camp, I am 100% supportive on fair use. However, releasing the "root key" out in the public has set the cogs in motion to mass piracy. For me, it is like premeditated murder verses manslaughter. Even though piracy is not his intention, due to his work, piracy is what came out of it.
 
ktr said:
This is going to be an interesting case. Personally, I agree to both sides. On Geohot camp, I am 100% supportive on fair use. However, releasing the "root key" out in the public has set the cogs in motion to mass piracy. For me, it is like premeditated murder verses manslaughter. Even though piracy is not his intention, due to his work, piracy is what came out of it.
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no it's not. it's going to be a quick case... 17 USC 1201 reads:

(2) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that--

(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;
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further:

(3) As used in this subsection--

(A) to “circumvent a technological measure” means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and

(B) a technological measure “effectively controls access to a work” if the measure, in the ordinary course of its operation, requires the application of information, or a process or a treatment, with the authority of the copyright owner, to gain access to the work.
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Courts have said that "controlling access" requires a link between access to and protection of copyrighted material. As Geohot's circumvention allows you to play pirated games (note, it doesn't matter that there are legitimate uses to the circumvention, it just matters that there are some illegitimate uses), this will be met.
Do what you want with your money, but many cases have been decided on this issue and this case has a low chance of being determined in Geohot's favor. My prediction: Geohot settles it by agreeing to never circumvent another PS3 again.
 
I agree with donating to geohot; this battle is an important precedent and I can spare a few bucks. Just consider it one less fast-food choke-and-puke meal; a contribution to your diet if you will.
 
While its important for users to draw the line somewhere in terms of rights and promised features (since this all began with Sony closing the door on the "Other OS" feature) but in this economy ..

He elected to do all of this , nothing was forced upon him. If hes smart enough to figure out the master key , he should have been smart enough to save a few hundred thousand dollars for lawyer fees to go with it the moment he decided to publish the exploit , master key and video. Any half intelligent person would have known Sony would come after someone like Geohot so intensely. His mocking videos make me think of less of him , trying to be the rebel and end up looking like a fool instead.

And no matter how you spin what he did , it will end up effectively creating piracy for the PS3 where it wasn't possible before.. that can't be denied.
 
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If he was so confident in winning, he wouldn't need donations. I guess I just don't like him on principle, what he did ultimately opened the gates of mass piracy on the ps3 (indirectly).

LOL @ his settlement.
 
So his budding rap career isn't going to be enough to finance his legal expenses? Perhaps he can scrounge up the money by trying out as a stand up comic act where he mocks others in rhyme? Oh no, he's begging for money from me while I download yet another firmware update that Sony released to counter the effects of his desire for internet fame.

There was a right way he could have gone about this. If he was so annoyed that functionality was removed from his PS3, he could have kept the hack to himself and done as he pleased. He could have contacted Sony privately about finding the security flaw and they would probably have rewarded him or hired him or something. Instead, he wanted to be known around the world as the guy who hacked the PS3. And he knew fully well that releasing it would lead to piracy and it would fuck over millions of legit PS3/PSN users. Yet he went ahead and did it anyway.

You can argue that Sony was wrong to remove Other OS and I'd agree with you (even though I bet 99% of PS3 users wouldn't even know where the option was in the XMB.) But to say that what this guy did in turn was right and justified is ridiculous.
 
Yeah, he knew full well what that would lead to even if it was indirectly done. By releasing it publicly just to obtain internet notoriety, he pretty much brought it on himself.

Plus, the rap he did just made him look like a bigger douchebag. He might be a good guy, but the front he is putting up isn't really helping him.
 
ryken said:
Courts have said that "controlling access" requires a link between access to and protection of copyrighted material. As Geohot's circumvention allows you to play pirated games (note, it doesn't matter that there are legitimate uses to the circumvention, it just matters that there are some illegitimate uses), this will be met.
Do what you want with your money, but many cases have been decided on this issue and this case has a low chance of being determined in Geohot's favor. My prediction: Geohot settles it by agreeing to never circumvent another PS3 again.
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no no no geohotz code all it does is give you kernel access to the ps3 someone had to come by later and make a iso loader... the people sony really should be suing not geohot... Also as of 2010 there has been an exemption added to the dcma to allow for the circumvention of smartphones which is where the it is legal to jail break the iphone comes in... And is also what he is banking on as applying to the game consoles.

though i think his little rap song he did is going to cause more issues for him. As i understand it he is under a court gag order right now not to talk about the case or post the code anywhere. In the comment part of the mp3 id on his song he put the master key. So the distribution of that rap and mp3 is direct violation of a court order and that will not help his case. Though i think that was his intent as he tells sony to exhibit this at the end of it.

Then again his best hope is drumming up enough support that the unwashed masses make it known to sony that this is a bad move and this will be crippling negative press for them.
 
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Donated.

I hope that he wins and Sony doesn't pussy out by withdrawing their case before a verdict is reached (and a precedent is set). I think they probably will, however. Fuck them.

Also, I don't own any Sony products whatsoever, to include the PS3.
 
I wonder if he went to Sony first to point the flaw out before going public with it.
 
boss99 said:
I wonder if he went to Sony first to point the flaw out before going public with it.
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He threatened them with releasing the master key if they did not put the OtherOS function back in the PS3 they instead pursued legal action and so he released the key. At least thats my understanding.

I'm donating. I'm not taking sides but I hate Sony with the power of a billion exploding suns and would happily give $20 to see them possibly bite the curb on this.
 
So he hacked his machine (in order to get free downloaded games able to work, lets be real here and not try to BS anyone)

Sony caught him doing a hack, and now he claims he is innocent?

I even saw this on Judge Mathis recently... these 2 russian guys in NY had a Wii debate because the one guy asked him to "hack it to get cheap games" with a modchip, and the guy overcharged and yadayada... the judge didn't even realize that it was totally illegal and he was getting free games for the Wii with the modchip.

Burn buddy, burn... you got caught, aint noone helping your pirating ass! Should have been slick and undetecable sucker....
 
Lunas said:
no no no geohotz code all it does is give you kernel access to the ps3 someone had to come by later and make a iso loader... the people sony really should be suing not geohot... Also as of 2010 there has been an exemption added to the dcma to allow for the circumvention of smartphones which is where the it is legal to jail break the iphone comes in... And is also what he is banking on as applying to the game consoles.

though i think his little rap song he did is going to cause more issues for him. As i understand it he is under a court gag order right now not to talk about the case or post the code anywhere. In the comment part of the mp3 id on his song he put the master key. So the distribution of that rap and mp3 is direct violation of a court order and that will not help his case. Though i think that was his intent as he tells sony to exhibit this at the end of it.

Then again his best hope is drumming up enough support that the unwashed masses make it known to sony that this is a bad move and this will be crippling negative press for them.
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Hah, someone please send that to Sony against the doofus... that would be classic if I read an article next week talking about how he lost it all because of a rap song he made :D
 
I hope the guy gets slammed hard. I'd donate to help that happen...
 
I don't really understand how the frack the US legal system is SO expensive you need to be rich to deffend yourself.

Is that really the land where freedom is deffended? I would much rather call it the land where the "rich people's freedom" is deffended...screw you if you can't pay a lawyer.



PS: you don't modify your car? nor bike? motorbike? truck? He modified HIS ps3, not any of yours. As far as I know, there are millions of video-tutorials that show you how to modify bikes, cars and the like...yet I don't people around claiming piracy and bullshit. He DIDN'T pirate anything.
 
prava said:
PS: you don't modify your car? nor bike? motorbike? truck? He modified HIS ps3, not any of yours. As far as I know, there are millions of video-tutorials that show you how to modify bikes, cars and the like...yet I don't people around claiming piracy and bullshit. He DIDN'T pirate anything.
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Afaik, cars, bikes, motorbikes, or trucks are not copyright protected.
 
I'm going to wager most of psx-scene or whatever will be donating to mr egohot. ;).

If that were to happen, should further provide proof that his release led the way to piracy! lolz..
 
Dylan80 said:
So he hacked his machine (in order to get free downloaded games able to work, lets be real here and not try to BS anyone)

Sony caught him doing a hack, and now he claims he is innocent?

I even saw this on Judge Mathis recently... these 2 russian guys in NY had a Wii debate because the one guy asked him to "hack it to get cheap games" with a modchip, and the guy overcharged and yadayada... the judge didn't even realize that it was totally illegal and he was getting free games for the Wii with the modchip.

Burn buddy, burn... you got caught, aint noone helping your pirating ass! Should have been slick and undetecable sucker....
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George Hotz is not a pirate. He's a programmer and technologist. He is a pseudo-security expert and specifically targets the restraints implemented on popular consumer devices like the iPhone and the PS3, especially when those restraints artificially limit or prevent consumers from using those devices. Whats happening here is Sony overstepping its bounds and using brute legal force and throwing money down in court because of epic failures in their security of the console. The outcome of this case is going to create a new precedent for consumer rights concerning the hardware they purchase, and any win for Sony will result in all companies realizing they can take a more consumer-unfriendly course in designing and restricting access to products.

Whether you like Hotz or not, regardless of his ego and unprofessional behavior, this is a flagship case in consumer rights and you shouldn't bash him because he represents what happens when someone brilliant steps up to the plate piques the interest of corporations. We are not slaves, sheep, or subhuman, and even if you can't relate to this man you should recognize the implications for all people in this country.
 
Yeah I know what he stands up for. I guess really I can't stand his character. He's definitely a very bright guy though, I'll give him that.

The guy is a genius, but he needs to tone down the cockboy act :p
 
ktr said:
Afaik, cars, bikes, motorbikes, or trucks are not copyright protected.
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They aren't copyright protected? So I am entitled to copy them and sell them as mine, right? :D

I don't see the difference between a car and a PS3. Hacking a PS3 is just like hacking the cars computer to push the turbo a little more...
 
prava said:
They aren't copyright protected? So I am entitled to copy them and sell them as mine, right? :D
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They are patented, not copyright protected.

One protects creative expression, other protects an invention.

Similar functions, but two totally different approaches.
 
ktr said:
They are patented, not copyright protected.

One protects creative expression, other protects an invention.

Similar functions, but two totally different approaches.
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I fail to see the difference atm :confused:
 
ktr said:
They are patented, not copyright protected.

One protects creative expression, other protects an invention.

Similar functions, but two totally different approaches.
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The PS3 is an invention. This is no different than reprogramming a computer in your car to alter how it functions.
 
Lunas said:
no no no geohotz code all it does is give you kernel access to the ps3 someone had to come by later and make a iso loader... the people sony really should be suing not geohot... Also as of 2010 there has been an exemption added to the dcma to allow for the circumvention of smartphones which is where the it is legal to jail break the iphone comes in... And is also what he is banking on as applying to the game consoles.
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That exception will not apply. The exceptions are promulgated by the Library of Congress. This power is given to that body in the DMCA (digital millennium copyright act). The telephone exceptions are as follows:

(2) Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applications, when they have been lawfully obtained, with computer programs on the telephone handset.

(3) Computer programs, in the form of firmware or software, that enable used wireless telephone handsets to connect to a wireless telecommunications network, when circumvention is initiated by the owner of the copy of the computer program solely in order to connect to a wireless telecommunications network and access to the network is authorized by the operator of the network.
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I highly doubt ANYBODY thinks "wireless telephone handsets" applies to video game consoles. This is especially true given that there are specific exceptions for video game testing.

Copyright v. Patents

Patent - an exclusive right granted to anyone who invents any new, useful, and non-obvious process, machine, article of manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof

Copyright - a set of exclusive rights granted to the author or creator of an original work, including the right to copy, distribute and adapt the work. Copyright does not protect ideas, only their expression.

The best way to think about it is copyright is the protection of the expression of an idea. Where a patent protects a new invention.

Circumvention

This case is different than copyright or patent. It is a circumvention case. The DMCA created a NEW protection for copyright holders.

This protection says you can't "circumvent a technological protection measure" in order to "gain access to copyrighted material." It's not copyright infringement, because you don't have to actually copy the protected material. You just have to ACCESS the material by going around a protection scheme.

Therefore, normal ideas like fair use, first sale, etc. do not apply to circumvention because those are defenses to copyright infringement.

Precedent

This is NOT an important case. It does not decide any new issue. There have been many cases similar to this regarding cell phones, and they were all decided for the cell phone maker. The library of congress created the exception for cell phones, so those cases don't matter with respect to cell phones, but what people were doing is almost identical to what Geohot was doing.

Who the hell are you?

A law student who is writing a law review article on this exact provision of the DMCA. I've read all of the big circuit decisions and poured over the legislative history.

If you have any questions about circumvention, let me know. I obviously like talking about it.

Why you shouldn't donate

1. Geohot is a prick
2. Geohot is not going to win
3. This case won't settle any new issues, and won't create new precedent, so there isn't much to gain
4. Geohot is asking for your money to defend a suit he knows he can't win, and also can't afford, and is preying on a "us v. the man" mentality to get money out of your pocket for a lost cause.
 
ryken said:
Why you shouldn't donate

1. Geohot is a prick

That doesn't make him wrong.

2. Geohot is not going to win

Piss poor reason not to fight it.

3. This case won't settle any new issues, and won't create new precedent, so there isn't much to gain

Oh wow, you already know to outcome of the case? Do me a favor when you go back to the future, give me some lotto numbers and stock picks, thanks.

4. Geohot is asking for your money to defend a suit he knows he can't win, and also can't afford, and is preying on a "us v. the man" mentality to get money out of your pocket for a lost cause.

99% of people don't have the money to defend themselves against a multinational corporation, what does that have to do with anything?
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