SFF Gaming HTPC

Hello All,

I've already gotten some advice at a few other forums (Computer Shopper and Tom's Hardware), but it was suggested I try here. Rather than type a whole new explanation, I'll just copy the message I posted at TH, but with different components that were suggested.

- CircuitsMan

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Hello All,

I'm considering building a gaming HTPC. What I'm hoping to do is kick my TV provider to the curb and watch TV shows from the internet AND drop my phone service and get a magic jack. I've spent the last few weeks trying to find components and the biggest trouble I've had is trying to find a computer case that will fit in my shallow TV stand. I have a fews option about which shelf to put it, but I'm generally limited to something that's 14" (L) x 17" (W) and 7" (H). Because of this, I've mostly been looking at mini-ITX cases because most micro-ATX cases are at least 15.75" long. Here is what I am looking for:

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: Between now and Christmas.
BUDGET RANGE: $1000-$1200
SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Basic internet browsing, internet videos, and a few computer games.
PARTS NOT REQUIRED: Monitor. Everything else is required, including OS, keyboard, and mouse.
PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: newegg.com, amazon.com, and any retail store
PARTS PREFERENCES: anything goes
OVERCLOCKING: no
MONITOR RESOLUTION: I am a building n00b, so I have no idea here, but the bigger the better I think if I am going to output to a TV.
ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: The only games I want to be able to play on this computer are the HL2 series, which I have but can't play on my laptop, and Diablo 3 whenever (if ever) it comes out.

Here is what I've come up with so far and please let me explain a few things afterwards before you completely shoot this idea down.

Thermaltake Element Q - $74.99
ZOTAC GF8200-C-E Mini ITX AMD Motherboard - $99.99
AMD Phenom II X4 905e Deneb 2.5GHz - $169.99
SAPPHIRE 100283L Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) - $169.99
G.SKILL 4GB DDR2 800 - $129.99
SeaSonic 350W SFX12V Power Supply - $47.99
LITE-ON iHES208-08 Blu-ray Combo ODD - $109.99
Western Digital Caviar Green 640GB Hard Drive - $59.99
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit- $106.99
Logitech S520 Wireless Slim Keyboard & Mouse - $59.99
Scythe 120mm "Slipstream" Case Fan - $8.99

Total Cost = $1038.89

What I wanted to explain is that I've looked at reviews for other mini-itx cases like the Silverstone Sugo SG05, SG06, and Apex MI-008 that make me think this is possible. A couple of people there have said that the've used those cases to build gaming HTPCs. With the SG05 and SG06, the product pages specifically say they can use a full-szied 9" long graphics card, and a few people have said the 300W SFX power supply that comes with the case works great. The SG05 is even featured in a Recomended Systems Guide at avsforum.com in a mini-itx gaming HTPC build. One of the reasons I think the SG05 and SG06 are so prominent are because they have a slot specifically for a 120mm fan whereas most mini-ITX cases I've seen have no fan. Well, several people who left reviews for the MI-008 said they mounted their 3.5" hard drive in the 3.5" external drive bay which then allowed them to easily snap a 120mm fan in the side bay where the HDD was originially supposed to go. If you then compare the Element Q with the MI-008, you'll see they are practically identical in shape, build, and size, so I am hoping I can do the same thing with the Element Q.

Basically what I want to know is if you think this is a good idea or if this is a bunch of bull-hockey. If you think this is bull-hockey, can you please suggest a good case that will fit in in my TV stand? If nobody can think of anything, then my next option would be to remove a shelf in my TV stand and go with an Apevia X-QPACK case and an Asus P5Q-EM micro-ATX intel motherboard.

Thanks,
CircuitsMan


P.S. Here are a few websites I've found that are helpfull or soon will be.
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
http://camelegg.com/

I have not a clue about ITX so I can't really say anything about if it's a good idea or not. But after having to resort to some pretty fast and loud fans in my SG01 to get it all cooled off I'd think it may get kinda toasty in that case. Though my cpu is at 85w tdp and the one yer looking at is 65w so I'm sure that would help a bit.

But you might want to look at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227495 for the memory as it's dirt cheap and made by OCZ. Sure the timings are slow but timings seem to be pretty irrelevant since DDR1.

Originally Posted by WintersFury

But you might want to look at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227495 for the memory as it's dirt cheap and made by OCZ. Sure the timings are slow but timings seem to be pretty irrelevant since DDR1.

I decided to go with a single 4g stick in case I wanted to add more later. The mini-ITX boards only have two slots available for memory.

Some other information which I came across was a review over at TH: Radeon HD 5770 And 5750 Review: Gentlemen, Start Your HTPCs . I found it after someone at TH suggested the HD 5770. It's certainly not as powrefull as the other cards in the review, but the power consumption is a lot less.

Originally Posted by CircuitsMan

I decided to go with a single 4g stick in case I wanted to add more later. The mini-ITX boards only have two slots available for memory.

That would explain the high price.

Taking a better look at the overhead view of the case... I'm not sure that the graphics card will fit. I have a 5770 sitting next to me for a computer I'm putting together for a friend and it goes almost all the way to the back of the mATX mobo. Which makes me think it's going to hit into the cd drive cage area since that looks like it hangs over the mobo area at the edge where the card would be. It's a 2 slot card and the case only gives one slot of space.

Originally Posted by CircuitsMan

If nobody can think of anything, then my next option would be to remove a shelf in my TV stand and go with an Apevia X-QPACK case and an Asus P5Q-EM micro-ATX intel motherboard.

Poor secondary option for the following reasons:
- Apevia make some of the worst PSUs in the world. Unless you love dead hardware, don't get Apevia
- Socket 775 is pretty EOL'ed. Meaning that it's a dead-end socket at this point. Not to mention that many of AMD's CPUs perform for about the same but costs significantly less while having a better upgrade path.

Why get the Thermaltake case when you yourself said that they're virtually identical?

Then my only option might be to go with an HD 4770? Maybe this ASUS EAH4770?

How do I know if a GPU will fit inside a case? Are the number of expansion slots listed for a case where the GPU would go? From your response my guess the answer is yes.

Would it be better if I went with the Sugo SG06 and had a seperate blu-ray player? It's not what I was hoping for, but the SG06 only uses slim ODD and slim Blu-Ray ODD are way too expensive.

The more I look into this, the more I think I'll have to go mATX with a cube for a case, and one less shelf in my TV stand.

Originally Posted by Danny Bui

Poor secondary option for the following reasons:
- Apevia make some of the worst PSUs in the world. Unless you love dead hardware, don't get Apevia
- Socket 775 is pretty EOL'ed. Meaning that it's a dead-end socket at this point. Not to mention that many of AMD's CPUs perform for about the same but costs significantly less while having a better upgrade path.

Why get the Thermaltake case when you yourself said that they're virtually identical?

If the Apevia case's PSU is no good, then I'll swap it out for a better one if I can. Like I said before, the problem is finding a case that will fit my shallow TV stand. Meaning the case can be no longer than 14" at the maximum. The only cases I've come across that would fit are the ones I've mentioned above and the Lian-Li PC-Q07 which looks so plain it's disgusting IMO.

I decided on the Thermaltake because it looks better than the MI-008 and because the MI-008 has a mostly plastic front and the Thermaltake does not, as far as I can tell.

... Uh. I hope you do realize that the mobo you picked out (the Zotac 8200) will not fit a video card in it because it's not a PCIe x slot.

Will the AM3 processor work in that board? I also don't know if the video card will fit considering it doesn't have 2 slots. This is an advantage of the SG05/SG06.

Originally Posted by CrimandEvil

... Uh. I hope you do realize that the mobo you picked out (the Zotac 8200) will not fit a video card in it because it's not a PCIe x slot.

Then the guy back at TH didn't do his homework before suggesting it to me. At the moment he was probably only thinking about power savings. I had been considering the ZOTAC GF9300-G-E Mini ITX Intel Motherboard which does have a PCI Express 2.0 x16 expansion slot, but the intel processors seem to consume more power. Any chance that Zotac might be coming out with a better AMD motherboard any time soon?

Originally Posted by Steeeeve

Will the AM3 processor work in that board? I also don't know if the video card will fit considering it doesn't have 2 slots. This is an advantage of the SG05/SG06.

According to the Zotac website it will.

http://www.zotacusa.com/zotac-gf8200...therboard.html

If I go back to Intel, I'm limited to core 2 duo's to keep the power consumption low. Maybe the 3GHz E8400?

Well, that board will limit the GPU a lot, i think it's only a PCIeX1 slot so you won't have nearly enough bandwidth to take advantage of it, that if you can get it to fit. there is no PCIeX1 5770 that i know of.

How about the new celeron e3300? They are basically low end Core2 Duos, better in features then the Pentium Dual Cores.

Originally Posted by Danny Bui

Apevia make some of the worst PSUs in the world. Unless you love dead hardware, don't get Apevia

Apevia can't be that bad, they've gotten more revies at Newegg than any other PSU in the 450-500W and 500-600W categories! Granted, though, the 420W PSU that comes with the qpack case may not be enough.

Originally Posted by CircuitsMan

Apevia can't be that bad, they've gotten more revies at Newegg than any other PSU in the 450-500W and 500-600W categories! Granted, though, the 420W PSU that comes with the qpack case may not be enough.

Danny Bui is not kidding.

NewEgg is a horrid place for PSU reviews.

For better ones, try [H] or JonnyGuru.

Re-reading what I said before... I was incorrect about why the 5770 wouldn't fit but was correct that it won't fit. Won't fit due to the card taking up the slot next to it which the case doesn't have.

Any single slot cooler cards will still have issues due to the fact that the fan will be choked for airflow being right up against the side of the case. That ASUS you linked looks to be an almost 2 slot cooler. The cooler would have to be at most as wide as the pci slot bracket to not stick over into the next slot.


With Intel you can always get a quad core and undervolt it. Mine runs with no issues under 1.1v. At 1.1v it's using 74w and the lower you can get it the less power the chip uses. All the low power AMD chips are are undervolted regular ones. But there is of course the possibility that your chip won't run at a lower voltage.

Originally Posted by CircuitsMan

Apevia can't be that bad, they've gotten more revies at Newegg than any other PSU in the 450-500W and 500-600W categories! Granted, though, the 420W PSU that comes with the qpack case may not be enough.

rofl... listen to dannybui and jeremyshaw and stay away from apevia

stay here or http://www.jonnyguru.com/ for all your PSU readings

also, it wouldn't hurt if you did some leg work yourself instead of relying on other's knowledge (or lack of...) for your own personal purchase

ps. im referring to that itx mobo someone at tom's recommended when it doesn't have a pci-x slot.. or the guy earlier in this thread that suggested "cheap" ram that is DDR3 and that itx mobo is DDR2

Originally Posted by makmatsu

or the guy earlier in this thread that suggested "cheap" ram that is DDR3 and that itx mobo is DDR2

Good point, I looked at the cpu and saw it was an AM3 and not the mobo which an AM2+. Zotac's website at least says it'll support an AM3.