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  #1  
Old 08-25-2008, 04:26 PM
PawelPawlak n00bie, 6.7 Years
 
Status: PawelPawlak is offline  
BenQ FP241VW/WZ or HP LP2475w

Hello.

I want to buy 24 incher for all-around use (except professional photo editing).
My candidate list is quite short:
-BenQ FP241VW (A-MVA);
-BenQ FP241WZ (A-MVA);
-HP LP2475w (S-IPS);
Which one is better?

I currently have NEC 20WGX2 PRO - it`s nice monitor, but dust gathering behind screen gets somewhat annoying, and I want something bigger.

Regards,

PP
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  #2  
Old 08-25-2008, 06:48 PM
Sikish Limp Gawd, 10.3 Years
 
Status: Sikish is offline  
I'd go for S-IPS panel.
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  #3  
Old 08-25-2008, 09:51 PM
BigwaveDave Limp Gawd, 14.0 Years
 
Status: BigwaveDave is offline  
They're both good screens. The IPS will be a little better than the MVA, so I guess it depends on the price difference to you.

I have the FP241VW and I'm happy with it.
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  #4  
Old 08-26-2008, 10:28 PM
Biges [H]ard|Gawd, 6.8 Years
 
Status: Biges is offline  
I have no personal experience with 2475w, but from tehse I'd definitely choose this one. S-IPS is simply better. And I have a negative experience with FP241W.
__________________
* NEC 2690 (25.5")
www.tftcentral.co.uk (LCD technologies explained) www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6 (INPUT-LAG comparison)
* PVA/MVA gamma/contrast shift (more details when viewing from an angle): http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eizocg241wcolorshifthq1.jpg
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  #5  
Old 08-26-2008, 11:09 PM
ZeroH Limp Gawd, 8.8 Years
 
Status: ZeroH is offline  
from what I've read so far, the only real difference is that the HP has a wide gamut and a display port and the fp241vw has a faster input lag timings. The HP is also more expensive. In general, S-IPS seems be favored over most screens but if you're not using it for professional photography, you may be better off with the benq which will also save you some cash. There are plenty of folks happy with the benq and hp.
I've been waiting for a while to pick a new screen too and then I decided on the benq fp241vw because of its bang-for-the-buck value. If I decide I don't like it, Benq seems to have a very good return policy so I'm not too concerned.
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  #6  
Old 08-28-2008, 06:40 PM
Biges [H]ard|Gawd, 6.8 Years
 
Status: Biges is offline  
The problem with PVA/MVA monitors is their gamma shift:
PVA/MVA gamma/contrast shift (more details when viewing from an angle): http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?i...orshifthq1.jpg
And video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC7EozTCGSQ
__________________
* NEC 2690 (25.5")
www.tftcentral.co.uk (LCD technologies explained) www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6 (INPUT-LAG comparison)
* PVA/MVA gamma/contrast shift (more details when viewing from an angle): http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eizocg241wcolorshifthq1.jpg
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  #7  
Old 08-28-2008, 07:42 PM
ZeroH Limp Gawd, 8.8 Years
 
Status: ZeroH is offline  
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biges View Post
The problem with PVA/MVA monitors is their gamma shift:
PVA/MVA gamma/contrast shift (more details when viewing from an angle): http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?i...orshifthq1.jpg
And video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC7EozTCGSQ

That is true, but to be honest, I rarely notice the shift on my dell 2405... I do notice the lag on this POS though.

And that link shows a lot more shift that I've experienced on the 2405 which I use for photo editing as well.
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  #8  
Old 08-29-2008, 10:03 AM
Biges [H]ard|Gawd, 6.8 Years
 
Status: Biges is offline  
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroH View Post
That is true, but to be honest, I rarely notice the shift on my dell 2405... I do notice the lag on this POS though.

And that link shows a lot more shift that I've experienced on the 2405 which I use for photo editing as well.
Yes, it is individual, but is is better to warn people
__________________
* NEC 2690 (25.5")
www.tftcentral.co.uk (LCD technologies explained) www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6 (INPUT-LAG comparison)
* PVA/MVA gamma/contrast shift (more details when viewing from an angle): http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eizocg241wcolorshifthq1.jpg
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  #9  
Old 08-29-2008, 10:38 AM
ZeroH Limp Gawd, 8.8 Years
 
Status: ZeroH is offline  
i hear that.

And I'm still trying to understand the issue with wide gamut.. my brain doesn't comprehend tech speak as easily as it used to.
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  #10  
Old 08-29-2008, 11:15 AM
Biges [H]ard|Gawd, 6.8 Years
 
Status: Biges is offline  
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroH View Post
i hear that.

And I'm still trying to understand the issue with wide gamut.. my brain doesn't comprehend tech speak as easily as it used to.
Wide gamut means (~aRGB), that the monitor can display more colours than "standard gamut" (=sRGB) monitors. That sounds good. The problem is, that many programs and games are not made for aRGB colour space, thus their colours on aRGB monitors are off, more saturated.

Therefore, either buy sRGB monitor or aRGB (wide-gamut) with good sRGB emulation mode. Most wide-gamut monitors have usable sRGB mode.
__________________
* NEC 2690 (25.5")
www.tftcentral.co.uk (LCD technologies explained) www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6 (INPUT-LAG comparison)
* PVA/MVA gamma/contrast shift (more details when viewing from an angle): http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eizocg241wcolorshifthq1.jpg
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  #11  
Old 08-29-2008, 02:44 PM
10e 2[H]4U, 8.4 Years
 
Status: 10e is offline  
The VA gamma shift is always amplified by cameras. I see these images time and time again, but even pictures I've taken showed this effect much stronger than it is, as well as with TN monitors.

Also keep in mind that in comparing the NECs to VA, the NECs darken very slightly at extreme angles, so it contrasts even more in images to the VA washout you will see (where colors lose contrast as angles become more extreme).

In regards to wide gamut, it involves understanding that there is a capability of producing more "pure" colors in relation to standard gamut. So two colors that are one step away from each other (say Red @ 150 and 151) will show a larger difference on a wide gamut screen. Color "space" is a perfect explanation. Two colors in a bigger space, defined by the same number of bits, are further away from each other and more different. This is also why you will see descriptions of monitors with 10 or 12 bit color lookup tables (LUTs) because they have more "bits" to describe colors, thus leading to more specific color labelling, creating more color accuracy. This is why high-bit wide gamut screens usually have very good gradations with little to no banding.

If color management was a perfect science, and all applications/OSes were color managed, this would not be a big deal because colors could be properly re-mapped in games or videos, but since they aren't you get oversaturated reds and greens (the two colors we are most sensitive to).

If the HP was a standard gamut monitor, I would be on that wagon ASAP, but the wide gamut is a bit of a problem to me.
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  #12  
Old 08-29-2008, 04:11 PM
albovin [H]ard|Gawd, 6.9 Years
 
Status: albovin is offline  
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroH View Post
i hear that.

And I'm still trying to understand the issue with wide gamut.. my brain doesn't comprehend tech speak as easily as it used to.
Approximation - regular image on standard gamut vs wide gamut.
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  #13  
Old 08-29-2008, 04:28 PM
Frameless Limp Gawd, 6.4 Years
 
Status: Frameless is offline  
LOL, her face looks like a carrot.

Honestly, the oversaturation is not that bad, at least not with the wide gamut monitors iv'e used (NEC 2690wuxi and HP w2408h) compared to my sRGB monitor.
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  #14  
Old 08-29-2008, 04:55 PM
albovin [H]ard|Gawd, 6.9 Years
 
Status: albovin is offline  
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10e View Post
In regards to wide gamut, it involves understanding that there is a capability of producing more "pure" colors in relation to standard gamut. So two colors that are one step away from each other (say Red @ 150 and 151) will show a larger difference on a wide gamut screen. Color "space" is a perfect explanation. Two colors in a bigger space, defined by the same number of bits, are further away from each other and more different. This is also why you will see descriptions of monitors with 10 or 12 bit color lookup tables (LUTs) because they have more "bits" to describe colors, thus leading to more specific color labelling, creating more color accuracy. This is why high-bit wide gamut screens usually have very good gradations with little to no banding.
Total mess.
We talked about lectures, didn't we?
A word is Silver, silence is Gold.
Teaching vs graphomania.
A good link is better than risky lectures on such a complicated matter.
Areas to review before giving further lectures:
Defference between high-bit LUT and high-bit panel.
High-bit inputs.
High-bit videocards.
Why monitors with high-bit LUTs produce same number of colors as regular monitors.
Good luck.
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  #15  
Old 08-29-2008, 05:01 PM
verylostindeed Gawd, 10.0 Years
 
Status: verylostindeed is offline  
Quote:
Originally Posted by albovin View Post
Total mess.
We talked about lectures, didn't we?
A word is Silver, silence is Gold.
Teaching vs graphomania.
A good link is better than risky lectures on such a complicated matter.
Areas to review before giving further lectures:
Defference between high-bit LUT and high-bit panel.
High-bit inputs.
High-bit videocards.
Why monitors with high-bit LUTs produce same number of colors as regular monitors.
Good luck.
Is anybody else tired of this clown?
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  #16  
Old 08-29-2008, 09:25 PM
Biges [H]ard|Gawd, 6.8 Years
 
Status: Biges is offline  
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by albovin View Post
Total mess.
We talked about lectures, didn't we?
A word is Silver, silence is Gold.
Teaching vs graphomania.
A good link is better than risky lectures on such a complicated matter.
Areas to review before giving further lectures:
Defference between high-bit LUT and high-bit panel.
High-bit inputs.
High-bit videocards.
Why monitors with high-bit LUTs produce same number of colors as regular monitors.
Good luck.
This reminds me of episode "A Conflict of Interest" from "Yes, Prime Minister" series:

Sir Desmond Glazebrook: City's a funny place, you know, Prime Minister. If you spill the beans you open up a whole can of worms. I mean, how can you let sleeping dogs lie if you let the cat out of the bag? Bring in a new broom and if you're not very careful you find you've thrown the baby out with the bathwater. If you change horses in the middle of the stream, next thing you know you're up the creek without a paddle.
James Hacker: And then the balloon goes up.
Sir Desmond Glazebrook: Obviously. They hit you for six. An own goal in fact.
...
James Hacker: Desmond Glazebrook as governor? I mean, he's such a fool. He only talks in clichés. He can talk in clichés till the cows come home.

__________________
* NEC 2690 (25.5")
www.tftcentral.co.uk (LCD technologies explained) www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6 (INPUT-LAG comparison)
* PVA/MVA gamma/contrast shift (more details when viewing from an angle): http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eizocg241wcolorshifthq1.jpg
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  #17  
Old 08-29-2008, 11:59 PM
10e 2[H]4U, 8.4 Years
 
Status: 10e is offline  
Here's a link explaining high-bit LUTs.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=25150724

Here's another link in mostly layman's English speak:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=25058538

Here's another one with an opinion by a user and an NEC rep's response:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=25061344

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=25098312

So basically, the bottom line is wide gamut may one day be useful, but right now it will give you issues with oversaturated reds and greens except with color managed applications like Firefox 3 WITH the color management applet installed, available here:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...y/0/6891/30686

Anotehr example of a color managed app is Photoshop

In games your colors will look overly strong, similar to a TV with the "color" knob cranked to full.

Ultimately, I would suggest what Biges has said and ensure that it has a usable sRGB mode. You may want to wait for a solid review from www.prad.de, or check the HP LP2475W thread closely. I honestly would consider this the better display for PC use if the sRGB emulation is good (unlike the Dell 2408WFP).

Last edited by 10e; 08-30-2008 at 01:14 AM.
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  #18  
Old 08-30-2008, 01:53 AM
10e 2[H]4U, 8.4 Years
 
Status: 10e is offline  
So if silence is golden, does this mean that B.S. is grey?

Hypocrisy in its purest form....Tsk tsk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albovin View Post
Total mess.
We talked about lectures, didn't we?
...
Why monitors with high-bit LUTs produce same number of colors as regular monitors.
Good luck.
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  #19  
Old 08-30-2008, 09:44 AM
ZeroH Limp Gawd, 8.8 Years
 
Status: ZeroH is offline  
lol ^
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  #20  
Old 08-30-2008, 09:52 AM
albovin [H]ard|Gawd, 6.9 Years
 
Status: albovin is offline  
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10e View Post
So if silence is golden, does this mean that B.S. is grey?
No. It means that graphomania has no color.
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