Fun with Gigabyte P35-DS3L

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BillParrish

Supreme [H]ardness
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Aug 25, 2006
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just banged in the last screw on sons Christmas gift gamer box.

DS3L
E4500
2 x 1GB Corsair XMS 4 4 4 12
artic freezer 7 + AS5 no lapping.
8800GT
VT-550 PSU
cheap ass case with 120 front and back and side panel vent.

Set Vcore to 1.375
memory +.3 (2.1V)
MCH +.1
FSB +.1
cpu multi 11
memory mulitplier 3.33
FSB 300
memory timings 5 5 5 15 others auto
memory prerfomance standard.

BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3.3GHz with memory running a cool 1000MHz bios reporting cpu temp about 38C with PWM fan control ON !!

Looping memtest now while I hunt for a windows CD.

I redid the thermal paste under the MCH/NB because of the typically sloppy factory job. Well this board has a very good layer of TIM (like the intel stock cooler has) not some gob of gunk. So on this board I would say redoing the MCH paste is a waste of time. I absolutely did glue a 50mm fan on the MCH/NB heatsink. Overall build quality was excellent.

I cheated a little, the ram was from my main machine in a failed attempt to run 4 x 1GB so I knew the memory was good for 950MHz at 5 4 4 12.

Anyway totally impressed with this little board so far. Messed around with other multipliers and could not get it to boot at 400 FSB, 350 was no problem but with the high mulitplier of the 4500 no sense running a high fsb and stressing the board. 2 system fan headers + cpu fan was nice.

Things I dont like, the pins for the front panel audio are in a stupid place , way on the back of the board, case wires barely reached. IDE connector low on the board would be better up higher but was not a problem in the mid tower case.

Same ole bios, Trd memory settings are new to me, have not had a chance to play yet, probally will not bother as they are mainly for 4 stick tweaking and if you cannot adjust the channels independently I dont see the point.

Any who killer budget gamer board. I wanted to try an Abit but this was cheaper and the all solid caps on the Gigabyte for $90 sold me.
 
Honestly, I did not check but its a fairly small heatsink and the same NB chip used in all P35s so there is no reason to think it would not run hot. So I redid the paste and glued a fan on it before I even booted it for the first time. As I mentioned above there was no need for the paste once I got it apart and discovered the decent factory tim material.
 
stupid question, but what glue did you use? LOL.
Usually what I do I use a screw to attach fan to hs's fins. I don't the mobo yet so I don't even know if is possible, but I like the glue idea more...

Also since the 8800GT in general are loud on the load, perhaps I could glue a couple of 120mm Yate loons to the card to keep it cooler :D

BTW...Bill and other good peeps on [H] forums thanks for helping me to chose parts for my new rig ;)
 
I found a tube of this stuff out in the garage, no clue where I picked it up, it is clear and when it drys its still is a little flexiable and I found it is great for sitcking stuff to computers, drys fast and it sticks to the soldermask (the shiney top coating of motherboards) but can be peeled off. So I have started using it for everything :D just stuck on ramsinks of my 8800GT on with it. didnt think it would work at first but did the trick. Juat a little ball at outside corner of ramsink and the board applied with a toothpick, well several toothpicks bit the dust. For fans I put a blob in each screw hole of the fan and just lay it on the heatsink, wait 10 min, instant rubber like fan mounts . ON the ds3L my fan was too big (50mm, 40 would have fit better) so could only get glue in 2 fan holes, apparently did not matter, it has not fallen off yet. (gotta get me a camera for Christmas ! )


E6000 Multi-purpose Adhesive, Self leveling formual, Medium Viscosity Clear.


http://www.eclecticproducts.com/e6000Industrial.htm


Looks like a craft store might be best place to find it. God only knows where I found this tube or why I bought it in the first place.

On the GT it really needs better cooling than stock as reported that fan is LOUD at over 90%. I just today got my watercooling on it and gpu temp dropped from 56C to 34C at idlle. It did not make a lot of difference in my OC, apparently not a lot of headroom, at least in the card I got. I could raise the clock quite a bit and no issues in 3dmark05 (from 650 to 700 core) but my game would crash. 675 looks like it is going to be it for me. But I feel a lot better with the card running in the low 40s under load than 90C and of corse no fan noise except from the pci slot fan underneath blowing air on whole card, so I like your idea a lot. I dont buy video cards often so I want them to last.
 
Thanks for the info. Hmm..... I'll try to find this glue.

Btw... do you know what is the safest temp for 8800GT GPU? I rather have 2 slot design than half-ars single slot design.

Also I wonder if it is louder than my old x850xt-pe stock fan, I'm assuming it is pretty close. I guess I'll try to do something when all the parts get here...if indeed is going to be very loud :rolleyes:
 
Need some help ladies and gentlemen...

I pretty much have the same setup as Bill except I am running 4 x 1GB of Crucial Ballistix (link) and a Corsair 450VX (link). I just built the system this afternoon and I am having some issues overclocking the system in general.

I updated the BIOS to the F7 revision and have been fooling around with all sorts of settings with rather poor results.

I'm currently testing (running Prime95) the system at the following settings:
10 (Multiplier) x 250 (Bus Speed) = 2.5 GHz (Core Speed)
Core Voltage is 1.375 V (yet CPU-Z is indicating 1.328?)
1000 MHz FSB with 4-4-4-12 2T timings
Memory Voltage is 2.2 V (which is what these sticks are rated for)

At the above settings, the system is running stable (~32 Degrees Celsius at idle and ~50 Degrees Celsius under load), but it is completely unstable past that to the point it won't even boot.

Any ideas to what I am looking over? Any more information you all need to assist me?
 
I'm still waiting for my parts to arrive and haven't played with Intel since clerery 366 days :D

However after doing some reading I've collected this info:

- try your system with only 2 * 1Gb in your mobo.
- losen timings to 5-5-5-15 you are running your RAM at 1000Mhz, perhaps your timings are too tight.

- some bios settings to check/try:
CPU Host Clock Control: Enabled
CPU Host Frequency: YOUR FREQ.
CIA2: Disabled
Performance Enhance: Standard
System Memory Multiplier: adjust it so it is around 800MHz, or set it closer to 900-1000MHz, but do not forget to loosen your timings
DRAM Timing Selectable: Manual
CPU Voltage Control: do not go above 1.5V.
EIST: Disabled
CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2): Disabled
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E): Disabled
FSB got a +0.1V boost
MCH got a +0.1V boost
PCI frequency was locked at 100MHz

Please keep us posted, as I might run into the same problem in a few days when my toys arrive.:D
 
s0ccermike4 said:
Need some help ladies and gentlemen...

I pretty much have the same setup as Bill except I am running 4 x 1GB of Crucial Ballistix (link) and a Corsair 450VX (link). I just built the system this afternoon and I am having some issues overclocking the system in general.

I updated the BIOS to the F7 revision and have been fooling around with all sorts of settings with rather poor results.

I'm currently testing (running Prime95) the system at the following settings:
10 (Multiplier) x 250 (Bus Speed) = 2.5 GHz (Core Speed)
Core Voltage is 1.375 V (yet CPU-Z is indicating 1.328?)
1000 MHz FSB with 4-4-4-12 2T timings
Memory Voltage is 2.2 V (which is what these sticks are rated for)

At the above settings, the system is running stable (~32 Degrees Celsius at idle and ~50 Degrees Celsius under load), but it is completely unstable past that to the point it won't even boot.

Any ideas to what I am looking over? Any more information you all need to assist me?
Click to expand...

I would just about bet the farm if you pull out 2 sticks and go 2 x 1GB most of the issue will go away. Give it a try and if not post back you should be able (as you realize) to do a lot better. Might try 5 5 5 15 first just for fun to see if you can up the fsb. Be sure to check the memory mulitplier, if left on auto it will sometimes try to run the memory at stupid fast speeds, I set it at 2.0 while I play with finding what FSB and cpu mulit works well and gets me the highest OC then come back and find a memory mulitplier that will run the memory closest or a bit over stock.

doh , I skipped over amd7674's post thinking it was another question or issue, great minds think alike !! :D
 
Going with you all's suggestions, below are my results thus far.

CPU Enhanced Halt : Disabled
CPU Thermal Monitor 2 : Disabled
CPU EIST Function : Disabled
HPET Support : Disabled

2 x 1GB @ 5-5-5-16 timings
DDR2 OverVoltage : +0.4V (2.2V)
FSB OverVoltage : +0.1V
(G)MCH OverVoltage : +0.1V
CPU Voltage : 1.5V

Stability is based on Orthos Beta and the north bridge was extremely HOT (burning my fingers hot) through out the entire process.

The results:

11x250=2.75 GHz and 1000 MHz FSB : Stable
11x255=2.8 GHz and 850 MHz FSB : Stable
11x260=2.86 GHz and 867 MHz FSB : Stable
11x264=2.9 GHz and 880 MHz FSB : Stable
11x263=2.9 GHz and 1056 MHz FSB : Stable
11x269=2.96 GHz and 897 MHz FSB : Unstable

I'm feeling like 2.9 GHz is the max for this chip, but I can't help feel disappointed considering I purchased this setup having read from various sources these E4500 can be pushed past 3.0 GHz. I guess that is the luck of the draw. One observation of interest I must say is that I noticed something strange when I opened up my retail E4500 package. The CPU looked like it had been used before with some markings on it like someone had (poorly) installed a heatsink on it already. Has anyone ever heard of this before?

Regardless, any other ideas on how I can potentially push farther? What is better, higher FSB or better memory timings?

Thanks for helping me out.

Quick Update:

I completely forgot about trying out 4 x 1GB for memory so I stuck the other two sticks in for 11x263=2.9 GHz and 1056 MHz FSB (5-5-5 16 timings). I'm running Orthos right now and thus far it is stable.
 
As you noticed the NB/MCH get HOT !!! Keep in mind this gets oced just like the cpu and is the interface between the cpu and the memory and the cpu and the video so it it craps out the machine craps out. You did not mention if you put a fan on it and that is somehting I recommend for high FSB, notice I glued on a fan before I even booted mine.

5-5-5-16 typo ? 5 5 5 15 is the jedec standard and would be better.

cpu MHz much much more powerful than ram timings. Set the memory mulitplier to 2.0 and dont worry about memory speed, get a fan on the MCH/Nortbridge there is a nice fan header just towards the back of the board that is nicely place if you can find a 3 pin 40mm fan. But even if you tie-wrap a fan or whatever just to get moving air hitting that NB while you test, I think you will see higher FSB;s. Reduce the Vcore down to 1.40 or 1.45 volts you are really stressing the cpu voltage requlator and maybe the cpu. I would see what she will do at 1.45 before I resorted to 1.5, thats just me being conservative but just my 2 cents and you have a good handle on things.

So... use a memory mulitplier of 2.0 and forget the memory speed while you investigate what the cpu will do. after you find out what the cpu can do you can play with the cpu mulitplier and the FSB along with the memory mulitplier to then see where you can run your memory. Because CPU MHz are so much more powerful typically the best stragety is to top out the cpu then see where the memory ends up.

LOL too much coffee, all over the place with suggestions, fan on MCH would be my first move and that will be a big help if you then decide to go back and see what you can do with 4 x 1GB as the increased load of more memory will additionally stress the MCH.
 
Yah, as Bill said... I'll summarize:

1) get a fan on that NB heatsink
2) keep your RAM multiplier at 2.0 until you get your CPU at the speed you want
3) start low, then increase CPU voltage as needed (instead of the shotgun approach to 1.5v first)

Also, whats your VID?
 
I scavenged through some of my old hardware parts and managed to find a really nice Tt NB fan off of my ASUS motherboard that I used back in the day. It's currently installed with some double-sided adhesive and it seems to be doing a good job keeping the NB cool (it's no longer 'burning finger' hot).

I lowered the CPU voltage down to 1.45V and set the memory multiplier to 2.0 (timings are 5-5-5 15). My 5-5-5 16 was indeed a typo. Below are my results thus far:

11x269=2.96 GHz : BSOD when loading XP.
11x264=2.9 GHz : Instable
11x255=2.8 GHz : Stable thus far. (~20 minutes of Orthos and other programs running).

Update:

11x255=2.8 GHz : Stable.
11x255=2.8 GHz with 4-4-4 12 timings : Stable. (2 x 1GB & 4 x 1GB)
11x255=2.8 GHz with 4-4-4 12 timings @ 850 FSB (3.33 memory multiplier) : Stable thus far. (~20 minutes of Orthos and playing CoD 4 MP.)

My load temperatures are bouncing around in the upper 50's to low 60's.

My VID according to Core Temp is 1.325V while CPU-Z is showing a Core Voltage of approximately 1.392V.
 
Bah that is not so hot, thinking about it. could be you just got bad luck of the draw on the cpu but it is very rare not to have one do 3.0GHz stable. Try another .1 of MCH, total +.2 V now that you have a fan on it. If it does not help drop back down to .1. Will chew on it but offhand cannot see what is wrong but then again a 1GHz ish freebie on cpu speed aint bad.

temps about right I am at 62C and the machine has been running orthos all day. (I kicked up the memory performance setting to Turbo so retesting).

Tomorow morning will look through the bios in case i forgot to mention anything that might matter.
 
wow i am impressed by the overclocking capability. Would be looking for the DS3R version as I might need Raid support in the future!!
 
madgun said:
wow i am impressed by the overclocking capability. Would be looking for the DS3R version as I might need Raid support in the future!!
Click to expand...

If you are not sure, you could save the money now and get a raid card later. I have heard that on board raid is not so hot.
 
The onboard raid is ok for the avg user. If you really need a reliable raid setup, get a dedicated raid card.

I can reach 530Mhz FSB SDR on my DS3R with my E6750's multiplier set to 6x. Highest I could get the E6750 to was 475*8 = 3.8Ghz (28°C idle, 52°C load, 22♥°C ambient; using ultima90 + panaflo 92mm). I got the DS3R because I have a lot of HDDs. =)
 
With the more research I do on the C2D Exxxx processors, the more I am assured that I simply have a 'dud' for an overclocking E4500. Considering my processor's VID is 1.325V, my chances of having a comparatively good overclock were slim to none from the very start (regardless of memory and motherboard quality).

The processor will not budge (being 100% stable) from 2.2 GHz unless I push the core voltage to 1.45V - anything less and Orthos will indicate an error sooner or later. That right there immediately indicates that this processor is a dud in my personal opinion.

Regardless, my aim from the very start was a decent overclock I could use 24/7 that would ensure that my GeForce 8800 GT was not bottlenecked (not too bad at the very least).

As of right now, the settings below are what I am going to stick with (pending some over night Orthos testing). The MCH and FSB are at stock voltages and any power saving options have been re-enabled.

11 x 255 = 2800 MHz, 850 MHz FSB, 4-4-4 12 Memory Timings, 1.45V Core Voltage
 
s0ccermike4 said:
With the more research I do on the C2D Exxxx processors, the more I am assured that I simply have a 'dud' for an overclocking E4500. Considering my processor's VID is 1.325V, my chances of having a comparatively good overclock were slim to none from the very start (regardless of memory and motherboard quality).

The processor will not budge (being 100% stable) from 2.2 GHz unless I push the core voltage to 1.45V - anything less and Orthos will indicate an error sooner or later. That right there immediately indicates that this processor is a dud in my personal opinion.

Regardless, my aim from the very start was a decent overclock I could use 24/7 that would ensure that my GeForce 8800 GT was not bottlenecked (not too bad at the very least).

As of right now, the settings below are what I am going to stick with (pending some over night Orthos testing). The MCH and FSB are at stock voltages and any power saving options have been re-enabled.

11 x 255 = 2800 MHz, 850 MHz FSB, 4-4-4 12 Memory Timings, 1.45V Core Voltage
Click to expand...


Sorry to hear that, I'll post my results when my e2160 arrives sometime next week....grrrrr :rolleyes: All I've got so far is Mushkin RAM, case and hdd....

Perhasps I've missed it, but have you tried using only 2 sticks of RAM? Also try running memtest on your RAM to check if it is good.

Maybe Bill can come up with a trick or some hidden option we have overlooked ;)
 
BillParrish said:
Bah that is not so hot, thinking about it. could be you just got bad luck of the draw on the cpu but it is very rare not to have one do 3.0GHz stable. Try another .1 of MCH, total +.2 V now that you have a fan on it. If it does not help drop back down to .1. Will chew on it but offhand cannot see what is wrong but then again a 1GHz ish freebie on cpu speed aint bad.

temps about right I am at 62C and the machine has been running orthos all day. (I kicked up the memory performance setting to Turbo so retesting).

Tomorow morning will look through the bios in case i forgot to mention anything that might matter.
Click to expand...

Is the NB the only HS to put the fan on? Should I be putting on SB as well? Also you said there is no need to put a layer of AS5 under NB? I guess I'm getting ready while waiting for all the parts to arrive, damn it....why is taking so long.... :eek:
 
Snowdog said:
If you are not sure, you could save the money now and get a raid card later. I have heard that on board raid is not so hot.
Click to expand...

Hey Snowdog, are we having excellent winter in Ottawa this year?, snow, snow snow..... :D
 
amd7674 said:
Hey Snowdog, are we having excellent winter in Ottawa this year?, snow, snow snow..... :D
Click to expand...

Ugh! Last year I bought new snow tires and had them on at the end of October and we know what that winter was like. This year I procrastinated putting them on, still don't have them on.

I think I have discovered a weather control machine. Conditions will be the opposite of the tires on my car. :D

Seriously though, I am not a winter person. Snow is just more to shovel and clear off my car and more dangerous to drive in. Damn it is cold out this morning...
 
Snowdog said:
Ugh! Last year I bought new snow tires and had them on at the end of October and we know what that winter was like. This year I procrastinated putting them on, still don't have them on.

I think I have discovered a weather control machine. Conditions will be the opposite of the tires on my car. :D

Seriously though, I am not a winter person. Snow is just more to shovel and clear off my car and more dangerous to drive in. Damn it is cold out this morning...
Click to expand...

more snow coming our way this weekend. :eek::eek:

At least the good thing is it will be easier to overclock my new system and run 8800GT, when all the parts arrive... :rolleyes:
 
Gah, mountains of NC and its 75F and sunny, damit I will have to go rake leaves or something if this keeps up :mad:

CPU-z reports my Vid as 1.275 so you might be on to something there. Box says 1.325max.
 
Yea, the weather here in NC is unseasonably warm, but it certainly is beautiful.

The trend with VID is that the lower VID processors overclock better and the higher VID processors overclock worse. It makes complete sense because the VID is the required core voltage to run the processor at it's default clock.
 
BillParrish said:
CPU-z reports my Vid as 1.275 so you might be on to something there. Box says 1.325max.
Click to expand...

Boxes usually say the same thing for a batch of CPUs. The VID typically differs from the box, though (unless you're unlucky, lol). CoreTemp reports the VID.
 
s0ccermike4 said:
Yea, the weather here in NC is unseasonably warm, but it certainly is beautiful.

The trend with VID is that the lower VID processors overclock better and the higher VID processors overclock worse. It makes complete sense because the VID is the required core voltage to run the processor at it's default clock.
Click to expand...

Okey guys you've got to stop talking about the weather :p

Mike I thin you are right about lower/higher VID, however this guys were able to push the CPU to 3.2Ghz with better heatsink, also look at the voltages they've used.

e2160 review
 
UPDATE:

Video card finally showed up. In order to be rock solid stable in games I ended up at 11 x 292 @ 1.425V with a 3.33 memory mulitplier 5 5 5 15 turbo. Vcore little higher than I like but TM2 and C1E are enabled and so it web surfs great at 2.1GHz with reduced voltage and cranks right up for games. The freezer pro seems to have no problems keeping it cool but I do have great airflow in the case.
 
BillParrish said:
UPDATE:

Video card finally showed up. In order to be rock solid stable in games I ended up at 11 x 292 @ 1.425V with a 3.33 memory mulitplier 5 5 5 15 turbo. Vcore little higher than I like but TM2 and C1E are enabled and so it web surfs great at 2.1GHz with reduced voltage and cranks right up for games. The freezer pro seems to have no problems keeping it cool but I do have great airflow in the case.
Click to expand...

Nice, looks like a sweet system.
If find it interesting that on the P35-DS3L that C1E reduces the Vcore with a Vcore of 1.425V.
About the only complaint I have with my 965 DS3 rev 3.3, if I set the Vcore to anything other then default, C1E will lower the multiplier but "not" the Vcore.
So I had lower my overclock to 2.8GHz, it is the highest oc I could get with a default Vcore, being I wanted the lower Vcore when the system was idle.
 
Hey all!

Looking around for a motherboard for a potential new build, I spied the DS3L on Newegg for 100 bucks and was very intrigued. I'm considering snapping up a Q6600 from the local CompUSA if the prices drop another 10% for their liquidation. Everything sounds good from what I've been reading, but what comes to mind is the NB heat issue. My main question is: Is the NB heatsink easily removable? I would be considering slapping one of these on:

http://www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_product_hr05_ifx.htm

I'm wondering how easy it would be to get the stock NB heatsink off to do so. Is it held on with plastic clips? Or is it unscrewable?

Also, what about the southbridge? Is it going to be a heat issue too?
 
Aelfgeft said:
Hey all!

Looking around for a motherboard for a potential new build, I spied the DS3L on Newegg for 100 bucks and was very intrigued. I'm considering snapping up a Q6600 from the local CompUSA if the prices drop another 10% for their liquidation. Everything sounds good from what I've been reading, but what comes to mind is the NB heat issue. My main question is: Is the NB heatsink easily removable? I would be considering slapping one of these on:

http://www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_product_hr05_ifx.htm

I'm wondering how easy it would be to get the stock NB heatsink off to do so. Is it held on with plastic clips? Or is it unscrewable?

Also, what about the southbridge? Is it going to be a heat issue too?
Click to expand...

The north bridge heatsink comes off easily, just pinch the plastic clips on the back side of the motherboard and the heatsink should pop right off.
The HR-05/IFX should work fine on the ds3.
The south bridge gets warm but not near as hot as the north bridge, so you can probably get by with just the stock south bridge heatsink, it also uses the plastic clips, it would be simple to replace also if you wanted to.
 
On the original DS3, the NB heatsink was easier to remove. On my DS3R, that thing was hard. I've seen some people pull out the entire chip here on [H], and didn't want that happenning, lol. As Bill mentioned earlier, all you really need to do is stick a 40mm fan on it.
 
Well, to be honest, looking at the DS3L and DS3R side by side on Newegg, the DS3R seems to have a mammoth of a heatsink on its northbridge. The DS3L has a much smaller one. Thanks for the tip, I'll just have to be very careful. I just don't want to mess around with screwing on a fan or gluing it. I'd rather have a more reliable aftermarket cooler, and Thermalright is as reliable as it gets. If nothing else, it would probably yield me better results than just sticking a fan on there, and might get me more clocks.
 
That depends on how high you want to go. If you don't approach 500Mhz, then the HR-05/SLI is fine. The closer you get to 500Mhz (and the higher you have to raise the chipset voltage), you'll want a fan -- even on the thermalright.

Its easier to stick a fan on the heatsink than it is to remove the heatsink.
 
But wouldn't the thermalright and an 80MM fan be more effective by a serious measure than the stock heatsink and a little 40MM fan?

And 500MHz? Wouldn't that be approaching 4500MHz on chip?
 
Aelfgeft said:
But wouldn't the thermalright and an 80MM fan be more effective by a serious measure than the stock heatsink and a little 40MM fan?
Click to expand...

Sure, but then you're spending another $15-$20 and goin through the trouble of uninstalling the stock one and installing the new one. Like I said, if you don't need to do all that, then why bother? If you're NB temps aren't reaching super high temps, then theres no need to go through all that trouble. If you wanted better cooling on the chipset, you could have just gotten a board with heatpipe cooling on the NB/mosfets instead.

Aelfgeft said:
And 500MHz? Wouldn't that be approaching 4500MHz on chip?
Click to expand...

Depends on which chip. 500mhz for my E6750 means 4Ghz for me. :D but I'm only at 3.8Ghz on my DS3R, though the board can reach 530Mhz FSB SDR.
 
I'm seriously thinking about this board if it overclocks that well, or at least has the potential to. Anyone have any thought about this board as opposed to the MSI P35 Neo2-FR ? It has a heat pipe, only thing is, the local store says they out of those but they have the gigabyte in stock, I need one tomorrow. Will have to see if they have a spare MSI or will be getting a shipment in.
 
one swell foop said:
I'm seriously thinking about this board if it overclocks that well, or at least has the potential to. Anyone have any thought about this board as opposed to the MSI P35 Neo2-FR ? It has a heat pipe, only thing is, the local store says they out of those but they have the gigabyte in stock, I need one tomorrow. Will have to see if they have a spare MSI or will be getting a shipment in.
Click to expand...

The MSI looks like a very nice board for the money, anandtech just did a review and like it. I had no need for the raid and I absolutely hate MIR as I never seem to get them sent in. All solid caps and it appears the CPU power is a little beefier. If I had noticed it and the MIR was an instant savings instead I might have gone for it just for a change of pace. The cooling is a lot better, no argument there. Off hand I would say the MSI is a better buy.
 
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